Self Editor

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Subject: OT - Texas Hold 'em poker discussion/talk - VII

Posted by: Species - Leader [07724916] Fri, Sep 24, 2004, 00:01

Some interesting discussions in the previous thread:

AP10's....errrrrr....'unique' winning hand

Phil Helmuth's play and subsequent crying like a baby in the WSOP Tournament of Champions vs. Annie Duke

This post from biliruben who popped his 'live' cherry

biliruben
ID: 441182916
Thu, Sep 23, 2004, 14:20 Well y'all got me curious, so I popped in to a local smoke-filled sty called Goldie's, where I have played a bit of blackjack in the past. They replaced their pool tables with 4 hold 'em tables (3 3-6 and 1 4-8 for the "big boys") about a year ago, and they have become fairly popular. I had to wait 10 minutes or so before they could seat me, and this was closing in on midnight on a Wednesday.

Anyway, I was a novice, and it showed. Struggled to keep my cards on the table yet not show my neighbor, had to be reminded of the blinds, and at what point the bet went from $3 to $6. Ironically, I think my obvious ignorance helped me. I played a little, read a little more, and understand the rules, odds basic strategy. I wasn't making stupid mistakes. A loudmouth drinking hennessey who kept claiming he played hold 'em professionally starting berating me for not knowing what I was doing, which was true, etiquette-wise with chips and cards and such. I just smiled and didn't respond. Of course, when I drew into a few good hands, they all thought I was either bluffing or didn't know what I was doing raising and re-raising. I drew a straight, trip aces and a full house, winning decent pots right off the bat, because the loudmouth and his friends refused to fold to the novice. After those hands, I established myself a bit, and was able to semi-bluff a couple of smaller hands, and get out of there 90 bucks richer in 45 minutes of play. Most of these guys and been there hours and hours, and I could tell they were pissed.

I was so overwhelmed by just trying to get the etiquette right, that I had a hard time properly considering odds, and certainly couldn't adequately study the other players except the loudmouth, who was extremely easy to read. It appeared there were a few decent players at the table, but overall I don't think the quality of play was extraordinary. Maybe the better players play on the 4-8 table, but I feel like with a bit of experience to where I am comfortable and the basics are instinctual, I could perhaps hold my own and win consistently there. This first time though, it was definitely harder to juggle all the tasks and stay focused than I thought it would be, and I think I got a bit lucky.

I suppose online it would be a bit easier to stay cool, but that just doesn't seem like very much fun to me. In person was exhilirating if a bit nerve-wracking, and that's probably the only way I am going to play.

Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Fri, Sep 24, 2004, 00:09

bili - obviously you had an extremely successful first night. Me, TRS, bmd and THK expect a cut of your winnings! ;-)

But seriously, it IS nerve racking that first time. I was helped politely by some players, and chided a bit by the dealer once when not 'protecting my hand' in my first tourney. And you are 100% correct, your novice status definitely helped as these guys underestimated how simple poker can be if you play tight-aggressive. Congrats and be sure to take some lessons from your first night and apply them in the future.

IMO, while sure there are plenty of mediocre players who stick to 3-6, there are also plenty of low limit players who play very solid poker, so just stick to your game, know the odds and play the other players and you'll hopefully do well and have a ton of fun. While sure I am there to win money, even if I break even after 4 hours I've had a great time doing it and consider every time to be my next learning experience.

Re: Hellmuth

How sad that a player of his caliber has to be such a foul mouthed bad sport. They even showed clips of him watching HIMSELF on video and even he admitted he needs to tone that act down......now if I'm going to go through a tirade about how "lucky" Annie was (yeah RIGHT!) I'm going to make damn sure it's in the privacy of my hotel room and nowhere near a TV camera. Annie straight up cleaned his clock -- showing only the 9 for a pair of nines when she actually had two pair (King-nine) was freakin' brilliant. Sure Annie got some lucky flops (two full houses if I recall) but she played kick ass poker when it was down to 3-4 players.

Chuck
Sustainer
ID: 169212110
Fri, Sep 24, 2004, 01:45

I wanted to throw a discussion topic out there, and a new thread seems like a good time.

I realize every table is different, and so it's hard to generalize, but when you guys talk "tight," how tight is tight?

To make my question tangible, what are the hands that you would at least call the big blind no matter what (regardless of position, amount of players, chip stack relative to rest of table, etc.). IOW, what are your tight hands?

If you have secret hands or whatever, you don't need to post them, but I would be interested what the definition of "tight" really is.

I would think the gimme hands are:

Pairs:
A's
K's
Q's
J's
10's

Suited:
AK through A-10
KQ, KJ
QJ

Off-suit:
AK
AQ
KQ

Are my thoughts way off on this? Is it too lose? Too tight?

ChicagoTRS
ID: 23717238
Fri, Sep 24, 2004, 09:11

For one bet I would always at least call (NL):
any pair
Ax suited
Kx suited
suited face card combinations (A,K,Q,J,10)
unsuited AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ.

Marginal hands that sometimes I might call with depending on position/table/image/opponents/# of people already in the pot:
suited connectors, A10 K10 QJ Q10 J10 unsuited, Qx suited

If we are talking limit poker my list is probably closer to yours...in NL the value of pocket pairs (sets) and Ax flushes goes way up.

beastiemiked
Sustainer
ID: 03531815
Fri, Sep 24, 2004, 09:24

Congrats Bili. It's always nice to win money the first time you play something new. Remember that poker is about having fun first and making money second. Of course, it's a lot more fun to win money but playing only for money makes it a grind.

I love watching Hellmuth's antics. Granted, he can be very annoying at times but he's a lot more fun to watch than say Jesus or Harrington.

Does anybody ever watch Celebrity Poker Showdown on Bravo? I enjoy it because it's an insight on how bad players play. Phil Gordon provides excellent commentary and unlike other poker shows gives good advice about poker on the show. I really wish they would drop the other commentator as he is neither funny or insightful.

Matt G
ID: 19554168
Fri, Sep 24, 2004, 09:42

Congrats on the winnings Bili... my first night was similar... it was with a friend of mine and a few guys I knew 3rd party wise.. didn't know what I was doing. I started with $12 going into the night, they played like .50/1 and I ended up going home with $212.. took me a couple hours, i got berated for counting my chips at the table and such.

I continued to play with friends, and practiced my etiquette there, then finally took to the casinos in AC... I didn't play well there, I just got hammered, making wrong reads, and when I made the right ones, I got beat with river cards...

But anyhow it is nice to see someone making some money.

I told you all about a tourney I was playing about a week ago... Its this monthly thing people from work get in this was the second one, more and more people keep wanting to get into it. Anyhow, I won the first one, I hit the cards so nicely, i had a lot of bad reads.

Going into this next tourney, I played the odds better... Everyone who was there was gunning for me, if I was raising I was getting re-raised no matter what, I couldnt get into a pot cheap... which is what I live off of, a nice draw so I'll limp in and then if I hit something I throw my chips in.

I kept getting dealt the worst starting hands, 2,7 3,8 4,9 for the first 30 minutes I think I played 1 hand and that was when I was big blind and got called.

After the blinds went up I hit 33 in the hole. I was small blind. Blinds were 20-40. The dealer but in $500 in chips... This guy is a constant bluffer, he plays a lot of draws. With a pair in the hole, I'm thinking if I can just see the flop maybe I'll make my set or at least make him think I did.

So I call the bet and the flop comes out, 2,5,9
right now I have a pretty low pair, there is nothing spectacular on the boards, so I want to buy this pot right now. I put in $1000 in chips, I get called.

Next card is an A So I've got a straight draw and still a low pair. I check, he checks. River is a K. Bet is to me, right now my choices are to try to buy this pot, or get out... I'm already pot committed so I try to buy it. I throw in $500 cause I want him to think I'm trying to make him come into the pot for a little bit. He raises, I got him pegged for the 2 pair, AK I should have known, I made the worst read ever on this hand... sure enough I call and he has it.

I didn't play many hands after that, just when I was in the blinds, I wasn't getting the cards and I couldn't get in a good position to move, whenever I'd see the flop I'd get 2-3 callers and someone would hit something, I didnt have the chips to limit the number of people seeing the pot, so I was playing from behind.

Once I was big blinds, got dealt a 10-4 suited hearts. I got called, and I figured for those cards I don't want to put anymore into the pot yet. Flop comes out, 10, 3, 7. I hit hit pair, I put in $200. I get 3 callers. River is a 4... I know these guys are going to bet, so I want to make sure I get them into the pot before I got all in. Sure enough they each go for $200 after I check, so I push all in.... they all fold.

took a nice hand there, and I milked it for a while, stealing a few blinds and trying to get some cards, they weren't coming... I made another bad read later.... A 9 10 on the board I had A9 I went all in got called by A10 and that was it...

a bad night, but I learned a few things...

ChicagoTRS
ID: 23717238
Fri, Sep 24, 2004, 10:40

I don't mind Hellmuth...in the end he is an excellent hold'em player. I think a lot of the crap he displays is kind of his act...keeps people interested in him. I think he steps over the line sometimes berating people but at this point people expect it of him and I think he probably uses it to his advantage to throw people off of their game.

biliruben
ID: 441182916
Fri, Sep 24, 2004, 13:54

Thanks for all the support, fellers.

biliruben
ID: 441182916
Fri, Sep 24, 2004, 14:45

What I want to know is how, after playing for many hours, you remember a hand so exactly so as to relate it to us here! Amazing.

TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Fri, Sep 24, 2004, 16:45

Going to norman for my 3rd live game. In my first two apperances I have total winnings of ($325) while playing NL and 2-10 spread.

Also, I thought it was HILARIOUS when Helmuth was talking about "I don't think she knows how strong I really am here, yada yada"...he had AT of no thing vs a full boat. Made the same display with the top pair of Ks. Annie showing the 9 was perfect. No question she was going to win after that...she was just too under his skin for him to do anything.

THK

TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Fri, Sep 24, 2004, 16:48

bili-
I will tell you it is much easier to remember you stupid plays/hands after many hours.

I will never forget: Had JJs in 5th position. First 2 raise 10 each in a 2-10 spread game...3rd folds and the 4th raises another 10. The problem is the only hands I had seen the player just in front of me play is AA and KK so I LAY DOWN JACKS...I mean we aren't playing againts pros here and it ended poorly. The pot ended up getting run down to the end.

1st-A high, Q kicker
2nd-Pair of 66s
4th-A high, K kicker
ME-Trip JACKS on the turn if I stayed in

Awful play and I will never forgot it since it would have been a 200+ pot.

THK

Matt G
ID: 19554168
Fri, Sep 24, 2004, 16:50

bili:

If you were referring to me I write down a lot of the hands that I play, just for future reference... plus if I write down who I am playing against and what they played, helps for later games I can read them better... Took short hand in high school... def helped.

Also, I have a photographic memory, so that helps a little too and when you take a bad beat or having a horrible night, you always remember what happened.

As Mike McD said in remembers, "You never remember the hands you win, only the ones you lose..."

I think thats it... anyhow the 10 4 I remember that cause its the only all in IU survived.

Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Fri, Sep 24, 2004, 16:52

bili - but typically you're going to remember the bad beats on miracle river cards much more than the perfectly executed nut flush trap you laid for someone after checking on the river when you hit the nut flush (or the like).

TRS - I'm not complaining much about Hellmuth, and you're right he probably figures it's entertainment, but still a bad sport is a bad sport. I still love him as a poker player and root for him, but he could be nicer about it when he loses. It's not like Annie is some no-name hack who got lucky, she played great poker.

biliruben
ID: 441182916
Fri, Sep 24, 2004, 16:54

Where as I have to check 3 times to make sure I remember right the cards I was just dealt! LOL.

Hopefully someone will think that's a tell instead of the brain damage that it is.

R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Fri, Sep 24, 2004, 17:50

As a constant Omaha Hi/Low player now, I'm finding the bad beats in Hold'Em harder to swallow. Omaha just doesn't have that many bad beats, simply because if you don't have the nut hand you should fold to any serious bet. If you don't and get beat, well, it isn't a BAD beat, just a stupid one. ;)

Last night I was invited to a 50$, 20 player Hold'Em tourney, with payouts going to the top 5. (500, 200, 150, 100, 50) I made it to the final table easily enough, and with 7 of us left I get delt AA. I raise 3 times the BB and get two callers. Flop comes AK4 rainbow. Perfect. I go all-in, and both call right away. Sure wasn't expecting that, but great! Right? They flip over KK and A4. Couldn't have asked for a better flop, since they both figured they had the best hand too. Turn comes a 4, so we all have boats, but I'm still way ahead. No biggie. I'm already tallying up the post-hand situation; the A4 guy is out, the KK guy will only have enough for a big and small blind, and he's up for those the next two hands. Once he's gone I'm in the money, and probably 3rd in chips. Sweet! Dealer flips the river, which I barely glance at. Then I do a double take. King. NO WAY. The KK guy jumps from his chair and does a little dance. I jump too, but head for the door. The guy at least has the decency to look apologetic as I pass him by. ;) I'll try to find out tomorrow if he went on to win it all.

Looking back, I realized that there were only 3 types of cards out in play; 4 Aces, 4 Kings and 3 4's. Just how often does THAT happen?

TB
Leader
ID: 031811922
Fri, Sep 24, 2004, 22:48

You guys and your threads are going to get me hooked. I went to Party Poker tonight and have been playing the free/demo Texas hold em. I don't think I am near ready to start betting my real money, but it is very fun. I haven't posted in these threads, but I do enjoy reading all of them.

kev
ID: 3155515
Sat, Sep 25, 2004, 01:47

Where is the free partypoker play? I guess I can just look it up.

I went down to the casino tonight, and after winning 100 bucks at Blackjack, I went into the poker tables, like I usually do after I am lucky either at craps or blackjack. Played 3-6 Hold em

Nothing really happened early. I usually play tight, because at the 3-6 table, many people just bet and hope on the river.

The only real memorable hand I had, and the only reason I am recanting the story, is because of a prior story in the last thread.

I was Small Blind, and got dealt 5c/9c...from now on known as the AP10 hand. 3 callers around to me, no raises...since I had been playing tight, I decided to raise to 6, just to see what would happen....all of them call, no raises back, so at worst, it cost me 5 bucks to look at the flop. Flop comes out 229 rainbow. Check to me, I bet- 2 callers. Turn comes 4. 2nd guy bets, I call, same with the Big blind. River comes 9. My money card. Guy bets 12, I raise...he calls- he had the 2 down, giving me the bigger boat.

Maybe 5c/9c is just unbeatable....or maybe Im just lucky the guy didn't reraise after the flop with his trips.

TB
Leader
ID: 031811922
Sat, Sep 25, 2004, 01:56

http://www.texasholdem-poker.com/

I googled and found this site. Would be cool if some gurupies planned on getting together at a free table to play, bs and maybe even provide some tips to newer players like myself.

R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Sat, Sep 25, 2004, 02:10

Pokerstars has play money tables too. Actually, something I just found out a few days ago that sort of boggles the mind... Pokerstars play money chips selling on Ebay at about 25-30$ per million. I have about 900k from just bs'ing around. :) Guess I'll open an Ebay account soon.

TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Sat, Sep 25, 2004, 18:44

R9-
That is unreal! Thanks for that info. I will seriously begin playing now when I am bored just for that reason.

"6 MILLION POKERSTARS PLAY CHIPS
$240.00 "

LMAO...cracks me up. Off to the play $$$ tables to begin the BR climb! ;-)
---
Went to the Norman game once again. Had well over 2 full tables all night. This is a great game...house provides food and drinks. The guys that run the game made unbelievable tables. They do take a small rake 8% BUT capped at $4, which isn't much and pays for the food, drinks and dealers. Dealer tipped of $1/hand is almost expected (just a normality) but not required.

Will give some details later but ended up $80, which brings my 3 trip total winnings to $405.

THK

beastiemiked
ID: 262411016
Sat, Sep 25, 2004, 18:52

THK, is that place legal? I've heard of poker rooms being busted and not only did the people running the place get in trouble but also those that were at the place when it got busted.

TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Sat, Sep 25, 2004, 19:07

bmd-
No. It is just a small poker game at some guys small duplex. Funny thing is...a cop has sat down with us, the 2nd week I was there. Cops have better things to do then bust this small game. And if they do bust it...I am confident they won't be sending 20+ people to jail for buyins of ~$100

THK

TB
Leader
ID: 031811922
Sat, Sep 25, 2004, 19:26

Question- If you have A 7 unsuited and flop comes out rainbow Q J 6 and three other players start betting, do you fold?

I know there are a lot more variables that you usually base decisions on, but with just that info, do you fold?

Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Sat, Sep 25, 2004, 19:30

TB- is there a factor that would keep you in the hand after that flop? Are they giving free drinks to people who see the most river cards? :)

TB
Leader
ID: 031811922
Sat, Sep 25, 2004, 19:34

LOL, I guess that tells me I am right by folding. I just see so many people stay in some hands they should have folded before the flop or at least right after the flop it had me wondering if I was thinking right. I must be what is classified as a tight player because I fold preflop or after the flop about as much as the rest of the table combined seems to be doing.

I am up about $175 at a 1/2 table, but don't think I would be doing so well if I was playing against good players.

Farn
Sustainer
ID: 451044109
Sat, Sep 25, 2004, 20:06

TB- you keep playing tight. Low limit tables are the best place to make easy money. You might have to grind it out but the money is there.

TB
Leader
ID: 031811922
Sat, Sep 25, 2004, 20:18

Grind it out is exactly how it feels. I am now only up about $120. I have played two hands I shouldn't have. The last was a pair of tens and the flop came out 2 2 7. Four people stayed in and I just kept calling. Of course, I was beat by a higher pocket pair. I don't remember the other hand and am amazed how you guys can remember hands after a tour.

kev
ID: 3155515
Sun, Sep 26, 2004, 02:36

have been playing at partypoker on the free tables, and just did a quick one table tourney, and ended up winning it.

Got lucky early which helped. Won a hand with QK suited vs JJ with the flush on the river.

KnicksFan
Donor
ID: 30815418
Mon, Sep 27, 2004, 02:54

Good reference site for low-limit poker:

Low Limit Hold Em

biliruben
ID: 441182916
Mon, Sep 27, 2004, 17:26

nice site, particularly because of the lack of blinking mauve stars and spangles, but also because of some decent, generalized, content.

Tastethewaste
ID: 22841815
Tue, Sep 28, 2004, 09:22

Does anyone play at Pokerroom.com? Just wondering if its a good site to play for real money, im a little sketched about giving my credit card over the internet.

ChicagoTRS
Sustainer
ID: 566152116
Tue, Sep 28, 2004, 13:24

Never played at pokerroom...but good luck with using a credit card...most credit cards will reject attempted charges to the poker sites.

Typical way of funding an account is to open a new local free checking account, deposit however much you want to gamble with, open a neteller account, link the checking to the neteller, transfer money to neteller, transfer from neteller to casino. I would recommend against using your regular checking for safety reasons.

I would recommend sticking with the major poker sites: PartyPoker, PokerStars, Ultimate Bet, PrimaPoker, Paradise, Pacific. If you need a referral to Prima email me...if you are going to sign up with another post it on here so someone can give you a referral and you both earn a few $$$.

Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Tue, Sep 28, 2004, 19:01

Played 5 hours at the local casino Saturday. Brought $160 and was down to like $20 when I hit AA and tripled up. Ended up the night up $27 - not bad for having your last $20 in the pot on an all-in (although of course this is 3-6 limit poker).

The hand of the night was, of course, one I lost! Or I guess the hand I remember most :(

A 9 suited in a fairly late position. I pretty much will always play suited cards to the ace in case you get the flush. One raise in front of me that I call....but gets re-raised by the big blind. Three other callers so 5 people in for $9 a piece to the flop.....

Flop comes 9 9 3 so I'm trip 9's with an ace kicker. Big blind bets, is raised by the next guy, that is re-raised in front of ME! What on earth do these guys have? I call for now, playing possum a bit. It gets capped to $12 by the big blind. Next two cards are blanks and there is a LOT of raising and re-raising by me, the big blind and one other guy on the turn. On the river the big blind stops raising so one other guy and me go 3 bets....

Big blind had AA for 2 pair.

Guy to my right who bailed out after the turn had 88

I had A 9 of course for trips with ace kicker.

Guy who won the hand had pocket 3's for a full house on the flop. :(

I guess I should've put someone on a boat, but the pot was HUUUUUUUGE for that limit - easily the biggest pot I've seen and there was no way on God's green earth I would get out. I guess my mistake was raising so much and not realizing the boat possibility. I still would've called to the showdown at a minimum, but what else can you do with trips with an ace on the flop?

wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Wed, Sep 29, 2004, 22:06

Talk about bad bad luck. I just got knocked out of a 100 dollar buy in tourney

I had pocket Ks and went all in 3 callers 1800 in chips
one caller pocket 4, 1 AQ of hearts and last was 10 J offsuit.

Flop 4 K 7

I have 3 Ks, other guy 3 4s, last 2 guys nothing. I am feeling pretty good.

Turn 2 no help.

River 4.

My full house Ks over 4s lose to 4 4's. I placed 5th and got nothing. Ouch.

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Thu, Sep 30, 2004, 20:22

I edited out the hand detaisl below cause there wasn't anything spectacular. But isn't it great be on a "rush" Went from about $225 to $285 in less than 5 minutes playing $100 N/L $1/2$ blinds.

Hello skankboy,
You have recently requested your transcript of the last 5 games.

***** Hand History for Game 1006593061 *****
joshfolta has left the table.
0/0 TexasHTGameTable (NL) - Thu Sep 30 20:03:56 EDT 2004
Table Ravaging Raisers (Real Money) -- Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 9

** Summary **
skankboy balance $239.33, bet $11, collected $23.75, net +$12.75 [ 2c Qh ] [ two pairs, queens and twos -- Qh,Qc,9d,2c,2s ]

***** Hand History for Game 1006597573 *****
0/0 TexasHTGameTable (NL) - Thu Sep 30 20:05:07 EDT 2004
Table Ravaging Raisers (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 10

** Summary **

skankboy balance $244.83, bet $9, collected $14.50, net +$5.50

***** Hand History for Game 1006600271 *****
0/0 TexasHTGameTable (NL) - Thu Sep 30 20:05:50 EDT 2004
Table Ravaging Raisers (Real Money) -- Seat 6 is the button

** Summary **

skankboy balance $266.18, bet $10, collected $31.35, net +$21.35 [ Kd Jc ] [ a straight, ten to ace -- Ah,Kd,Qd,Jc,Td ]

***** Hand History for Game 1006605899 *****
0/0 TexasHTGameTable (NL) - Thu Sep 30 20:07:19 EDT 2004
Table Ravaging Raisers (Real Money) -- Seat 7 is the button

** Summary **
Main Pot: $44.65 | Rake: $2.35

skankboy balance $290.83, bet $20, collected $44.65, net +$24.65 [ Kh Ad ] [ two pairs, kings and queens -- Ad,Kh,Ks,Qc,Qh ]

***** Hand History for Game 1006612881 *****
0/0 TexasHTGameTable (NL) - Thu Sep 30 20:09:13 EDT 2004
Table Ravaging Raisers (Real Money) -- Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 10
** Summary **
Main Pot: $9.60 | Rake: $0.40
skankboy balance $286.43, bet $4, collected $9.60, net +$5.60

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Thu, Sep 30, 2004, 21:44

Wow, one of the best sets on runner-runner I've ever seen. I folded out but check out the owner that flopped a but A high flush that lost. (some of the non-relevant details edited out-- like my donating my $1)

**** Hand History for Game 1006934029 *****
0/0 TexasHTGameTable (NL) - Thu Sep 30 21:31:29 EDT 2004
Table Table 11332 (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: RickFox ( $29.80)
Seat 2: doglawur ( $34.80)

** Dealing down cards **

** Dealing Flop ** : [ 5d, 4d, Ad ]
Vita_luna_ checks.
RickFox bets (10)
doglawur raises (31.80) to 31.80
doglawur is all-In.
dock1181 folds.
Vita_luna_ folds.
RickFox calls (16.80)
RickFox is all-In.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Ah ]
** Dealing River ** : [ As ]
Creating Main Pot with $65.35 with RickFox
Creating Side Pot 1 with $5 with doglawur
** Summary **
Main Pot: $65.35 | Side Pot 1: $5 | Rake: $3
Board: [ 5d 4d Ad Ah As ]
RickFox balance $65.35, bet $29.80, collected $65.35, net +$35.55 [ Ks Ac ] [ four of a kind, aces -- Ac,Ad,Ah,As,Ks ]
doglawur balance $5, bet $34.80, collected $5, lost -$29.80 [ Qd Kd ] [ a flush, ace high -- Ad,Kd,Qd,5d,4d ]

TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Thu, Sep 30, 2004, 21:57

That would be a brutal loss for that A high flush with the K and Q...ouch! LOL.

THK

APerfect10
ID: 476262718
Fri, Oct 01, 2004, 23:13

How the hell could anyone call that All-In with just a pair of Aces; wow.

TB
Leader
ID: 031811922
Sun, Oct 03, 2004, 01:56

I am up to $14,319 in fake money. The hardest thing to do is to find a table where people bet like it's real money. I have learned quite a bit from playing and using some of the advice I glean from these threads. I think I like Omaha Hi best, then Omaha H/L, and then Hold 'Em.

I am not ready to bet real money, but have found a new fun pastime.

KnicksFan
Donor
ID: 30815418
Sun, Oct 03, 2004, 15:37

I won $125 yesterday at the $1-3 spread limit table at Turningstone. On my first hand, I was dealt AA, and my luck was pretty good the rest of the day too. I only lost one hand at the showdown.

ChicagoTRS
Sustainer
ID: 566152116
Mon, Oct 04, 2004, 11:21

Playing a 2.50 - 5.00 NL ring game online last night. Sitting to my right barb_enright 3 time WSOP bracelet holder...and highest finish for any women in the main event (5th). Only played for about 20 minutes but took one nice pot. Was just interesting to be playing against a minor poker celebrity.

Have had a really nice run recently and have increased my bankroll significantly so I have been experimenting at some of the higher limit tables. Mixed results so far(but mostly positive)...still a little nerve racking risking $500 on one hand...not sure I am ready for these levels yet as I am thinking about the money and a little scared to bet or call these huge bets. Also I have noticed a definite increase in overall table skill level...still a lot of terrible plays but also a higher percentage of players that are good players. Going to play these limits for another 10 days or so and just see what my hourly rate is vs. what I was making at the lower tables.

Played some $2-4 pot limit Omaha hi last night - 6 handed table. Really crazy action to what I am used to in holdem. Probably because there was a guy sitting there with $5K (could only start the table with $400!) he was putting pressure on everyone and I watched at least a half dozen people sit down with $400 and be down to 0 within a few rounds of the table (there was a few other stacks with 1-2K)...basically sharks feasting on the fish that would fall in the waters. Probably not a great idea sitting at this table being so dominated by big money but I played extremely tight and finally flopped a fullhouse and doubled up against the big stack and then the next hand picked up a nut flush on the turn and picked up another big pot...got up to 1k myself and then got out with a nice profit. I am considering playing more Omaha as every time I have played I have done very well...seems like Omaha play is even weaker than holdem online, some of the people I saw losing were making terrible calls. Checked back in on this table about 2 hours later and there was Mr Bigstack now up to 8K...I can't imagine sitting down with $400 and getting up to $8000 on one table. I don't think many people did what I did and take money off of that table.

biliruben
ID: 406171015
Mon, Oct 04, 2004, 12:29

Well gave my winnings back a few days ago, after betting heavily on a A 7 suited, getting a A 7 X on the flop, betting heavily, only to be beat by A 8, when an 8 appeared on the river.

Last night, however, I discovered even bowling Alleys have casinos around these parts. Had a great hour, where I didn't play many hands, but the hands I did play were perfect. He has 2 pair, I have a better 2 pair. He has a straight, I have a flush. He has KKK, I have AAA. Walked out $350 richer in under an hour.

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Mon, Oct 04, 2004, 22:28

I folded out of this hand, but it was the first natural Royal Flush I've seen. The guy ever gave a WARNING! $0.25 / $0.50 $25 NL table:

***** Hand History for Game 1022299203 *****
0/0 TexasHTGameTable (NL) - Mon Oct 04 21:30:03 EDT 2004
Table Table 12635 (Real Money) -- Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: EmpireEd ( $29.40)
Seat 2: BettorBeSure ( $18.70)
Seat 3: skankboy ( $34.75)
Seat 4: ThriIIhou ( $13.95)
Seat 5: SAMERFLAVOR ( $13.15)
Seat 6: MikeMcdermon ( $8)
Seat 7: Tahoetimes ( $23.10)
Seat 8: mjnumb23 ( $24)
Seat 9: sgrady ( $22.20)
Seat 10: jessew ( $19.60)
EmpireEd posts small blind (0.25)
BettorBeSure posts big blind (0.50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to skankboy [ 5d, 2s ]
skankboy folds.
ThriIIhou folds.
SAMERFLAVOR folds.
MikeMcdermon calls (0.50)
Tahoetimes folds.
mjnumb23 calls (0.50)
sgrady raises (1) to 1
jessew folds.
EmpireEd folds.
BettorBeSure folds.
MikeMcdermon calls (0.50)
mjnumb23 calls (0.50)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 6s, Kd, Qd ]
MikeMcdermon checks.
mjnumb23 checks.
sgrady bets (2)
MikeMcdermon folds.
mjnumb23 calls (2)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 8s ]
mjnumb23 bets (7)
sgrady raises (14) to 14
mjnumb23 calls (7)
** Dealing River ** : [ Ad ]
mjnumb23: i have a royal flush, you can pay to see
mjnumb23 bets (6)
sgrady calls (5.20)
sgrady is all-In.
Creating Main Pot with $43.85 with sgrady
** Summary **
Main Pot: $43.85 | Side Pot 1: $0.80 | Rake: $2.30
Board: [ 6s Kd Qd 8s Ad ]
EmpireEd balance $29.15, lost $0.25 (folded)
BettorBeSure balance $18.20, lost $0.50 (folded)
skankboy balance $34.75, didn't bet (folded)
ThriIIhou balance $13.95, didn't bet (folded)
SAMERFLAVOR balance $13.15, didn't bet (folded)
MikeMcdermon balance $7, lost $1 (folded)
Tahoetimes balance $23.10, didn't bet (folded)
mjnumb23 balance $45.65, bet $23, collected $44.65, net +$21.65 [ Td Jd ] [ Royal Flush -- Ad,Kd,Qd,Jd,Td ]
sgrady balance $0, lost $22.20 [ Ac Kh ] [ two pairs, aces and kings -- Ac,Ad,Kh,Kd,Qd ]
jessew balance $19.60, didn't bet (folded)

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Mon, Oct 04, 2004, 22:33

I've been playing a lot of $.25/$.50 $25 N/L

I've been trying to see as many flops as I can for $.50 and deciding from there. Been very successful at trapping big money on my monsters and raking tons of $3-$5 pots on marginal ahnds like K-9, etc.. .

culdeus
Leader
ID: 43105818
Mon, Oct 04, 2004, 22:50

Screw you guys, now I'm wasting alot of time playing play money games on PP. Just won my first NL 8 man tourney, I don't think I'll ever bother playing with real $$ because it's just as fun to play for nothing, and if I get good i could pawn it off on ebay right?

Anyway, can someone tell me if you would have played this hand differently. I was real confused and the betting was pretty fast. I was sort of chasing. I am thinking about playing for real in vegas, I sort of look like a chump (and can dress the part) and I bet some people would try to bully me, if I learned what hands to play I might do ok.

Dealt to culdeus [ Qc Ac ]

a1021960 calls [0.25].
RHG43 calls [0.25].
dotpet folds.
lilysrun calls [0.25].
chevypu calls [0.25].
PISTOLPOP calls [0.25].
doc_john calls [0.25].
culdeus raises [0.4].
wolverineted calls [0.25].
a1021960 calls [0.25].
RHG43 calls [0.25].
lysrun calls [0.25].
chevypu calls [0.25].
PISTOLPOP calls [0.25].
doc_john calls [0.25].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3d, Kd, Tc ]
culdeus bets [0.25].
wolverineted calls [0.25].
a1021960 calls [0.25].
RHG43 calls [0.25].
lilysrun calls [0.25].
chevypu calls [0.25].
PISTOLPOP calls [0.25].
doc_john folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ Kc ]
culdeus checks.
wolverineted bets [5.5].
a1021960 folds.
Cowboy_318 has joined the table.
RHG43 calls [5.5].
lilysrun folds.
chevypu calls [5.5].
PISTOLPOP calls [5.5].
culdeus calls [5.5].
** Dealing River ** [ 6h ]
culdeus checks.
wolverineted is all-In.
RHG43 folds.
chevypu is all-In.
PISTOLPOP folds.
culdeus folds.
wolverineted shows [ Th, 2c ] two pairs, kings and tens.
chevypu shows [ Js, Td ] two pairs, kings and tens.
wolverineted wins 3 play chips from side pot #1 with two pairs, kings and tens.
chevypu wins 59.75 play chips from the main pot with two pairs, kings and tens with jack kicker.
a1021960 has left the table.

ChicagoTRS
ID: 28953121
Tue, Oct 05, 2004, 00:05

Tried my little Omaha experiment tonight...I will have to do a lot more work on that game...I felt outclassed. Maybe just a bad night as I got no cards but definitely did not feel comfortable playing. Dropped 150 but won it back in Holdem. It is so hard not to play loose in that game...it seemed like 80% of the table was seeing every flop. Quickly learned to let go of every hand that is even close to marginal...someone almost always has the nuts. When I got good cards preflop and properly raised the flop would totally miss me.

Funny thing is last night I was playing a lot higher limits and felt like I knew what I was doing. Oh well...back to the even lower limits to play around.

biliruben
ID: 406171015
Tue, Oct 05, 2004, 00:13

Culdeus - The problem with play money is that no one ever folds. Not very realistic, and might lead to bad habits.

As far as your hand, as I am now an expert, I will give you my sage advice this time. Next time it'll cost ya. ;)

You had 7 outs after the flop. I would have checked, not raised, and maybe stayed in as long as there weren't too many raises. You had about a 1 in 4 chance of hitting a nut straight or a pair of aces, and though I don't quite understand the betting that went on (5.5? .4?) It looks like you would have have had much better odds than 1 in 4. No reason to pay more than you have to to see the king, though, and after you do, I would have folded.

ChicagoTRS
ID: 28953121
Tue, Oct 05, 2004, 00:13

culdeus...I would have raised your AQ more preflop to try and scare off some of those crap unders. Would have made a half pot size steal attempt after the flop and then probably let it go if anyone smooth called or raised. Drawing to a 4 out straight is generally not a good play.

ChicagoTRS
ID: 28953121
Tue, Oct 05, 2004, 00:17

Once you got the Kc on the turn it was probably worth sticking around to draw for the flush or royal flush. Turn was ripe for a nice semi-bluff...but then again this is play money so noone will fold.

biliruben
ID: 406171015
Tue, Oct 05, 2004, 00:23

Ah didn't notice the K was a club. I wouldn't have folded. I would have checked and called to see the last card. Bluffing wouldn't likely work unless you were down to head to head.

kev
ID: 3155515
Tue, Oct 05, 2004, 04:12

no one folds on play money. Had a pair of 7's that flopped the trip with 2 Unders (2 and 6) Go all in, and have 3 callers! River comes King, guy flips 2 Kings..

culdeus
Leader
ID: 43105818
Tue, Oct 05, 2004, 07:52

yeah, I figured people are a little looser with play $$. A bit tougher to get a read that way, but you do see alot of people putting a quarter up to see the flop which is what I hear is pretty common.

Sludge
ID: 54692111
Tue, Oct 05, 2004, 13:38

Sorry to get a little OT here, but when is a royal not a royal?

When you're playing Omaha, of course!

beastiemiked
ID: 262411016
Tue, Oct 05, 2004, 18:14

Ran across this NL situation just a few minutes ago:

In SB with 9T offsuit with 5 others already in the pot I limp in. Flop comes Kh Ts 5h. I check with middle pair as does everyone else in the hand. Turn brings a Tc. First to act what do you do? Your stack is right at the buy-in.

Sludge
ID: 54692111
Tue, Oct 05, 2004, 18:20

How many others saw cards? What're the blinds and the buy-in?

biliruben
ID: 441182916
Tue, Oct 05, 2004, 18:26

raise, raise, and raise some more. Then raise again.

biliruben
ID: 441182916
Tue, Oct 05, 2004, 18:29

BTW, I've never played NL. I obviously am missing the subtlety of this situation, but that's what I'd do 3-6, I think.

Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Tue, Oct 05, 2004, 18:34

I check-raise

Sludge
ID: 278591212
Tue, Oct 05, 2004, 18:56

How loose is the table? How many of the 5 players consistently over-bet pocket pairs? How loose/tight have you been playing?

Without knowing the answers to those questions, I would tend to agree with Species for my own (more conservative) playing style.

Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Tue, Oct 05, 2004, 19:05

Sludge raises good questions, but you have to figure some dude is going to take a stab at the pot with a bet, and first to act I'll take the chance that everyone else checks because that's a pretty low chance with 6 players in a hand.

beastiemiked
ID: 262411016
Tue, Oct 05, 2004, 19:09

Not an overly aggressive table. No players I'd consider maniacs. Your typical low buy in No limit table.

I ended up check-raising a late position bettor and one caller from $1->$6. Everybody folded and I took a modest pot. Now if someone would've reraised what would you have done? This is the part of my game I have the most trouble, having a very good hand but not the nuts.

Sludge
ID: 278591212
Tue, Oct 05, 2004, 19:36

That's a tough one. Best I can say is that I would have listened to my gut. At that point, probabilities of winning the hand mean very little without knowing the guy's history.

Sludge
ID: 278591212
Tue, Oct 05, 2004, 19:37

And for the record, that's coming from a casual player (albeit one with a solid understanding of probabilities).

Sludge
ID: 278591212
Tue, Oct 05, 2004, 19:40

I haven't been following the threads that closely, but has anyone put forth the idea of getting a Rotoguru table on one of the play money/low stakes online sites going?

TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Tue, Oct 05, 2004, 20:09

I know PokerStars you can have Private Tournaments. Maybe sometime we could have like a $10-$1 (lower/higher?) NL Hold 'Em tournament with as many as possible that could play.

THK

ChicagoTRS
ID: 28953121
Tue, Oct 05, 2004, 23:48

A few options...this is a very common situation in NL holdem.

The check raise there is not a bad move but as you found it is probably the most common move and after you raise everyone will fold and you only make an extra buck or two.

Sometimes in first position in a hand like that I like to come out betting...maybe a half pot size bet and hope someone thinks I am trying to steal. Sometimes it works because people don't expect you to bet out like that when you make a hand. Can work well on an aggressive table.

Another option is the challenge type raise...they bet one...you only raise it to two and then hope they raise you back. Kind of mess with them with little raises...feign a little weakness. I have done this many times where you kind of play with the person and get them going back and forth and then once the pot gets significant you make a significant raise. You really only want to do this with huge hands though and I am not sure this hand qualifies as you can be beat in this hand very easily.

Another move that involves a little more risk is to just call...give the free card to whoever is left and then maybe come out with a pot size bet on the river and hope for a call. Or try the check raise on the river where it is more likely you will get a call.

With poor position...and really not an unbeatable hand you probably made the right move...make a pot size bet and take it down...if you get raised you might have to release the hand. Unless you get a very loose table you will not usually get much action on this hand and if you do get big action you are likely beat.

Chuck
Sustainer
ID: 169212110
Wed, Oct 06, 2004, 01:21

Not only can you sell play $$ on line, you can sell Real Pokerstars $$ on-line.

biliruben
ID: 406171015
Wed, Oct 06, 2004, 09:55

That's just bizarre. Are the transaction costs to get money to gamble online really that high?

R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Wed, Oct 06, 2004, 22:20

A couple questions reguarding transaction myself:

1) Lets say I have $50-100 sitting in Paypal. How would I go about moving that to a poker site? Do any of them just accept Paypal? Or do I have to sign up with someone else first?
2) What are the usual transaction costs? What could I expect to have left after putting in $60?

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Wed, Oct 06, 2004, 22:42

R9-

Pay Pal probably won't allow a transaction. You probably will need to use an intermeidary like:
https://www.epassporte.com/

They charge $5. But you can usually get 5% to 20% bonuswith a new sign up if you use a referal. If you want to use pokerparty.com, send me an e-mail and I'll hook you up. (Yes, i get a bonus too).

beastiemiked
Sustainer
ID: 03531815
Thu, Oct 07, 2004, 12:08

TRS, I think I cleared my bonus so you should have received some referral money. You were right about the site being full of fishes. I saw a guy go from $250->$0 at a NL $50 buy in table in a matter of 20 minutes. Last nite I made a semi-loose all in call with pocket 9's against two complete maniacs. I ended up tripling up when neither caught with their King-7 or Ace-9.

ChicagoTRS
ID: 28953121
Thu, Oct 07, 2004, 14:49

bmd...yep I think I got the bonus. I will make a donation to rotoguru. Glad you are having good luck on the site. Really I am not sure if this site is any more fishy than the others...probably just like all of the rest...as long as you play solid poker you can win.

I have had run ins with some really loose aggressive players the past few nights...watched them make some terrible calls and get miracle cards and build huge stacks only to lose it all back. I got a nice piece each time.

kev
ID: 3155515
Thu, Oct 07, 2004, 23:29

My first really nice win. I have a tough time playing low trips off the flop, but I always play my 3's.

***** Hand History for Game 50908659921 *****
25 NL Hold'em - Thursday, October 07, 23:25:33 EDT 2004
Table Play money 984146
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 2: Dr_Jeckyl_69 ( $207.2 )
Seat 3: mlynk63 ( $587.85 )
Seat 7: hldmplyr23 ( $19.9 )
Seat 8: PerfectWitch ( $30.75 )
Seat 9: gloveson5 ( $68.7 )
Seat 5: kevinmarbury ( $36.75 )
mlynk63 posts small blind [0.1].
kevinmarbury posts big blind [0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to kevinmarbury [ 3h 3c ]
hldmplyr23: gh
hldmplyr23 raises [2].
PerfectWitch: ty
PerfectWitch calls [2].
gloveson5 calls [2].
Dr_Jeckyl_69 folds.
mlynk63 calls [1.9].
kevinmarbury calls [1.75].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5s, Td, 3s ]
mlynk63 bets [0.25].
kevinmarbury is all-In.
hldmplyr23 is all-In.
PerfectWitch folds.
gloveson5 calls [34.75].
mlynk63 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5d ]
** Dealing River ** [ Tc ]
kevinmarbury shows [ 3h, 3c ] a full house, Threes full of tens.
hldmplyr23 shows [ Kh, Kc ] two pairs, kings and tens.
gloveson5 shows [ As, 6d ] two pairs, tens and fives.
kevinmarbury wins 33.70 play chips from side pot #1 with a full house, Threes full of tens.
kevinmarbury wins 60.95 play chips from the main pot with a full house, Threes full of tens.

Jazz Dreamers
ID: 3892916
Sat, Oct 09, 2004, 18:02

Cool thread...I had no idea so many people here had caught onto the poker craze. I've just recently started playing, mostly a bi-weekly home game with some friends. But I've made two ventures out to Foxwoods, the hometown casino, to play some $4/$8.

Here's a hand from the last time I played, definitely one of the more memorable hands I have played in my short career.

Background info: the two people involved in the hand (besides myself) on the turn are both very loose (have seen almost all flops so far) and very passive (very rarely bet or raise). This is limit ($4/$8), not no-limit.

I'm dealt 8d 7d in the big blind. Two people limp in, there's a raise, two more call, I call the raise, and the two limpers call. Six people see the flop of:

Kd Jd 9d

Sweet! I bet out and get three callers. Turn comes:

10d

I bet again, one of the loose passive players calls, the next guy folds, and then the other loose passive player raises. I hesitate for a bit, and then I call. Then the other loose passive reraises and the original raiser caps the betting. Now it's two bets to me, and my options are either call or fold. (I can't raise because there are only 3 raises allowed in a round if the pot is still multiway.) If you say call, what's my plan for the river?

Sludge
ID: 48955820
Sat, Oct 09, 2004, 18:40

At that limit, I bet the limit and pray that somebody doesn't have the Qd.

ChicagoTRS
ID: 28953121
Sat, Oct 09, 2004, 20:45

At minimum you have to call the river...even if it is capped...don't think I could fold a straight flush. Personally I would bet/raise at least once and call a reraise.

ChicagoTRS
ID: 28953121
Sat, Oct 09, 2004, 21:13

I take that back...I cap it with the straight flush.

Jazz Dreamers
ID: 3892916
Sun, Oct 10, 2004, 09:31

It's really hard to convey all the information I had gotten on my opponents by sitting at the table the past couple of hours, but I was almost certain that neither of them would have raised without the ace or queen of diamonds. Both players tended to fear the possibility of other people having big hands, and so would often just call if they had a straight if there was a flush possibility on board, or just call with trips in fear of a full house on board. When they 3- and 4-bet the turn, I was certain that one had the Ad and the other had the Qd. There just weren't any other cards left in the deck that those players would have been confident in.

So even though I had a huge hand in absolute value, the relative strength of my hand was very weak. (I would have been capping the betting without a thought if it weren't for the fact that there was a one-card straight flush on the baord.) I reluctantly folded on the turn, but I was vindicated when my read proved to be right. The guy with the Ad actually didn't understand why he had lost the pot.

BTW, I think the original call of the raise on the turn is right because he could have just the Ad, so there's no way I can fold. I don't think I want to raise b/c I'm going to have the betting capped if he has the Qd, and I am hoping that the third player (who has just been calling so far, so I have no reason to believe he has a hand yet) will come along for just one more bet. So I think calling for the overcall is okay here. (Of course, he might be bad enough to call two bets with a lot of hands, and as it turned out the raiser ended up capping it with just the Ad because he didn't realize he could be beaten by a straight flush.)

Now being right that instance doesn't prove that my read was right, but I think this hand is an example where the relative strength of my hand is not nearly as good as it first appears. Especially when I'm being raised by passive players who were calling just about every other pot they were in. Change the Kd to a low diamond like the 3d, and I'm capping every street without hesitation even though I still wouldn't have the nuts (which would be Kd Qd).

beastiemiked
Sustainer
ID: 03531815
Thu, Oct 14, 2004, 11:44

Was playing in a multi table tourney last nite when I came across this hand. There were 170 entrants and about 70 left, top 20 paid. Blinds were 100/200 and I had a little above average with 4000 chips. I limp in with A8 of spades in middle position with 2 limpers already in the pot, 1 guy behind me calls and the blinds check/call. So it's a 6 way pot with 1200 chips. The flop comes Ts 9s 7c. First player checks, next player bets 300. I decide there's no way I could fold this hand on the flop so I raise it to 1500 sending a message to everyone at the table that I am pot committed and will call a reraise. Everyone folds and the initial raiser uses all his time and eventually decides to put me all-in and I call. He flips over the 9 of hearts and 7 of diamonds for 2 pair. The turn and river are rags and I'm out.

What would have everyone else done in my situation? How about if you were in the position of the guy that busted me?

FRICK
ID: 268522714
Thu, Oct 14, 2004, 11:54

I am still trying to adjust my game to no-limit, from playing limit hold-em for several years. But the one thing I try to do is not go all in unless I have the best possible hand. While you had quite a few outs, you trapped ourself with the 1500 raise.

Without knowing your betting habits, if I am your opponent I have a tough decision to make. I currently have a very good hand, but their is a straight possibility and I would worry about paired hole cards and the board matching.

I would have made a smaller bet and tried to get a few callers before committing to the pot.

But as I said, I am used to playing limit poker where it is much harder to buy a pot.

Tastethewaste
ID: 22841815
Thu, Oct 14, 2004, 12:01

I dont think you played it terribly, i just would never go all in on a draw. Even if it is a really good draw (straight draw and nut flush draw) If hes raising 300 after the flop you pretty much know youre beat. Raising almost half your chips on a draw might not have been the best play. And calling the all in when you know your beat is just something i would never do. I wouldve called the 300 and hoped for a spade or the straight

beastiemiked
Sustainer
ID: 03531815
Thu, Oct 14, 2004, 12:40

My hand vs his with this flop:

Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing Ts 9s 7h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As 8s 477 48.18 495 50.00 18 1.82 0.491
7d 9h 495 50.00 477 48.18 18 1.82 0.509

My hand is basically a coin flip vs any 2 pair and at least a 60/40 favorite over any hand worse than that. Against trips or a made straight I still have about 33%-38% chance to win.

Tastethewaste
ID: 22841815
Thu, Oct 14, 2004, 12:51

thats why i said it wasnt a terrible move. But at the time you put all your chips in you had ace high. You had a lot of outs but why not wait for one of those outs to appear on the turn or the river before risking your tournament life.

Sludge
ID: 54692111
Thu, Oct 14, 2004, 12:57

I don't think it's necessarily a bad play for a tournament. You're going to have to win some races to win, so why not pick a strong spot and try to double up (or maybe better) and get yourself in a much better position? As far as I'm concerned, the guy calling with 9-7 off with a straight draw and a flush draw on the board was the worse play. Just way too many ways for him to get beat. Another 10 would have killed his bottom pair and then he has to worry whether you have top pair or not, another spade (obviously), and he had to worry about an 8, J, or 6. And then there's the outside chance that you're sitting there with top pair and a J-A kicker, in which case he's got to worry about a Q, K, A in addition.

Sludge
ID: 54692111
Thu, Oct 14, 2004, 13:00

But for what it's worth, I agree with TTW. I don't think it's a bad play, but I think a better would have been to wait until you had a made hand after the flop with some room for improvement. Of course, those can be few and far between at times.

ChicagoTRS
ID: 28953121
Thu, Oct 14, 2004, 13:04

Champions don't draw...call the 300 and take the turn card and see if it helps. Not a terrible play as you had a ton of outs but why stake your tournament on a draw when you can see the next card cheap.

Tastethewaste
ID: 22841815
Thu, Oct 14, 2004, 13:05

Sludge
ID: 54692111
Thu, Oct 14, 2004, 14:02

Probably why I don't play poker for any significant cash, but I'm sitting there with 7's and 9's, and I put him on an open straight draw or a flush draw, I'm staring down 8 outs for him with two cards to go either way. So I guess you're right. I'm 2 to 1 (assuming I got him pegged) and have to follow my own advice (I've got a made hand, even).

beastiemiked
Sustainer
ID: 03531815
Thu, Oct 14, 2004, 14:53

The only thing that couldve beaten him is if beastie has pocket 10s, 9s, 7s, a 10 with a 9 or 7, or an 8 jack, since beastie limped in i would assume the only thing to fear is the straight after the flop. Otherwise i would put him on a flush draw and think my 2 pair was good.

I would've limped with 7's, 9's, and 109 suited. It's unlikely I have those but with that board I would've made a very similar raise. He's got to put me on at least a flush draw and possibly a hand that dominates him considering I reraised into 3 others that haven't acted after the flop.

Champions don't draw...call the 300 and take the turn card and see if it helps.

I disagree. Champions(see Raymer and Arieh from this years WSOP) are willing to risk their stack on a huge draw while guys trying to make the money will call. If I call and a spade, a jack or a 6 hits than I think he shuts down and I barely win more than the original pot. Betting gives me some folding equity against hands that are a coin flip(such as the 2 pair vs my hand).

FRICK
ID: 268522714
Thu, Oct 14, 2004, 15:09

I wonder how many players in this year's WSOP had the same idea. Take a risk on a coin flip hand and try to double up.

The problem is if you are wrong you are out of the tournament. I think Raymer is a great player, but how many hands was he in that were basically a coin flip? If he loses he goes home and we have no idea who he is now.

Just wondering BMD, how many chips did the guy who called have?

Tastethewaste
ID: 22841815
Thu, Oct 14, 2004, 16:12

With 2 people before you limping in, there is no way you should limp in with pocket 7s, 9s, or 10s. 10 9 suited fine, but the idea would be to eliminate other hands so they dont get lucky on the flop. If you want to slow play a pocket pair against 1 or 2 players fine, but when you just limp in with a pocket pair with 2 already limped in and almost definitely the small blind calling and the big blind at best checking, youre in a 5 way race and suddenly your medium pocket pair doesnt look so good, thats why im saying he probably didnt think you had any of those combinations. The only hand in that scenerio that i would think you might have would be a jack 8, which means you flopped the straight. If he puts you on a flush draw hes the favorite even with all your outs.

So its just a case of playing conservative or not, it another spade comes out he still has 2 pair, at that point you can slow play considering everyone else folded and let him do the betting thinking his 2 pair is good. If you bet half your stack like you did without the flush he probably still calls, if not you still take down the pot.

What i wouldve probably done in your situation anyway is raise preflop. You dont have the best hand but you probably had the 2 limpers before you beat. Maybe the big blind doesnt even stay in if you raise pre flop. Without raising preflop to many people got to see the flop, one of them is bound to hit something.

Tastethewaste
ID: 22841815
Thu, Oct 14, 2004, 16:14

By the way, i cant remember but did raymer ever actually go all in, he was the chip leader pretty much from the get go wasnt he?

I also remember that young kid murphy i think his name was, who played great and then risked his whole stack and lost, and i think he was in the top 3 in the chip lead, so thats the consequence of gambling.

Sludge
ID: 54692111
Thu, Oct 14, 2004, 16:29

I also remember that young kid murphy i think his name was, who played great and then risked his whole stack and lost, and i think he was in the top 3 in the chip lead, so thats the consequence of gambling.

I certainly wouldn't recommend gambling a large portion of your stack to someone that's already in a good position. In addition, it all depends on the stakes, really. Utility theory. How much are the winnings worth to you? I'm sitting there in a no-limit hold 'em freeroll tourney the other night with pocket 10's, and I call a guy who went way over the top after the turn when there was a flush and straight draw possible (three connected diamonds plus one non-diamond over card - a Q I believe). I guessed the guy was bluffing, and I was right (he was calling and checking up until that point). What do I care if I lose? I lose a chance to be one of 9 that's entered into a satellite to a satellite where I'll probably get my ass handed to me? Oh the horror! (Of course, this is actually a good reason not to play the free tourneys, but it can be fun for me, a mediocre player, to get to laugh at all the really bad players out there.)

beastiemiked
Sustainer
ID: 03531815
Thu, Oct 14, 2004, 17:18

Frick, he had about 8500 chips.

With 2 people before you limping in, there is no way you should limp in with pocket 7s, 9s, or 10s.

This is a 10 player table and I was in middle position. Raising with 10's, 9's, or 7's is not a great play with 2 limpers already in the pot. With medium pocket pairs you want a lot of callers and hopefully you'll hit your set. If you don't, it's an easy fold. I'll raise with medium pocket pairs in certain situations but with 2 limpers in the pot and 5 yet to act the risk/reward is too great to raise with these hands.

The only hand in that scenerio that i would think you might have would be a jack 8, which means you flopped the straight.

Sorry, I would never play jack 8 unless it's from the blinds or an attempt from the button to steal.

What i wouldve probably done in your situation anyway is raise preflop. You dont have the best hand but you probably had the 2 limpers before you beat. Maybe the big blind doesnt even stay in if you raise pre flop. Without raising preflop to many people got to see the flop, one of them is bound to hit something.

Raising with A8 suited when you are an average stack and there are 5 players behind you left to act is a bad play. There are way too many hands that have you dominated for you to even think about raising with that in middle position.

culdeus
ID: 309551415
Thu, Oct 14, 2004, 17:55

Semi-funny story, my poker partner for my upcoming trip broke his keyboard over his knee (s) after being beaten on a nut flush by 4 7's for a pretty big pot for him.

Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Thu, Oct 14, 2004, 18:04

lol culdeus

Re: Raymer - my recollection was that he was typically strong in those "coin flip" situations when he called all-in bets from others. He might have had one where he was all-in early on, but for the majority of the time he was very strong and only risking 25-33% of his stack, it seemed.

tastethewaste
ID: 56848121
Thu, Oct 14, 2004, 22:20

Sorry, I would never play jack 8 unless it's from the blinds or an attempt from the button to steal.

OK, so that means the only thing i would put you on would be on a draw in which case if i had 2 pair i know i have you beat going into the turn.

Raising with 10's, 9's, or 7's is not a great play with 2 limpers already in the pot. With medium pocket pairs you want a lot of callers and hopefully you'll hit your set.

As for your position, its not the best position but i would think you would want to get rid of limpers. This is hypothetitical anyway since you didnt have a pocket pair. If you did, especially 10s or 9s how do you not raise to get rid of the previous limpers and put the blinds to the test so they dont get a free and half price flop?
Relying on making a set when only 2 cards in the deck can help you is not very aggressive and in fact devalues a pocket pair greatly.

Raising with A8 suited when you are an average stack and there are 5 players behind you left to act is a bad play. There are way too many hands that have you dominated for you to even think about raising with that in middle position.

So instead you play conservatively and let 5 others see the flop and then after a 300 dollar bet you basically go all in on a draw. I dont think that you made a very good play then. Doesnt that contradict your argument? You had 14 outs, certainly a reasonable chance to hit but why not see that turn for 300 rather than your tournament life.

Jazz Dreamers
ID: 178511913
Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 11:33

beastie, I like how you played it. Did you consider
moving all-in instead of just raising 1500 (since you're
not going to fold to a reraise instead)? I doubt it would
change much here, as the guy with 2 pair will probably
call. Since you have such a strong draw that cannot
fold once you make the 1500 chip raise, but you'd be
happy to have everyone fold and give you the pot, I
think moving in can be a decent play.

And I disagree with the logic that he "only" had a draw.
He ended up being against two pair and he was still 50/
50 to have the winning hand on the end. If he had
been up against KT, he would have been a favorite in
the hand. It doesn't matter who has the better hand on
the flop -- all that matters is who has the best chance to
have the best hand when all the cards are out.

Tastethewaste
ID: 22841815
Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 11:38

Hes an underdog 45.1 % chance of winning. Sure its a good draw, but he has to know hes down if someone in 2nd position after the flop has raised the pot. Bottom line as i said before its not a bad play but youre risking all your chips with nothing but a draw when you didnt have to.

100

Jazz Dreamers
ID: 178511913
Fri, Oct 15, 2004, 11:56

I'm not very experienced at no-limit, but my
understanding is that if you have a strong draw which is
a coin flip or better against all hands (which is almost
the case here, though against a set or straight, it's a
little less than that), and there is some chance that your
opponent will lay his hand down to a raise (the chance
might only need to be 5% or 10%, which would mean
that he still call most of the time), then raising (possibly
moving in, depending on stack sizes) has the best
expectation. You will all the chips in the pot at that
point if he folds, and you win all the chips half the time
when he calls.

The danger with just calling the flop is that if a blank
comes, you can be bet out of the hand and never get to
see the river. So you don't win any of the pot half of the
time when your draw would have come through. And if
your draw does come through on the turn, even a half-
decent player might know to fold his hand when you bet
strongly.

I agree that there is merit to both just calling and
raising. But if I understand the theory correctly, there is
actually more merit to raising than calling. I'm not sure
if certain aspects of this being tournament play, as
opposed to straight no-limit ring game play, influences
the decision enough to make calling better.

101

Chuck
Sustainer
ID: 169212110
Sat, Oct 16, 2004, 02:44

This is always a fun one... even if it is on the penny tables. :)

Out of curiosity, do you guys think I waited to bet too late? In this case it worked, and I was playing the guy-- he had been re-raising all-in on the river numerous times, though he was never called. I was hoping he was going to bet into me and I would check-raise him, instead it worked just the opposite in the end.

Seat 1: Obi Juan ($5.25 in chips)
Seat 3: Chuck42181 ($8.99 in chips)
Seat 4: EatTheseNuts ($1.88 in chips)
Seat 7: outlawbc ($1.29 in chips)
Chuck42181: posts small blind $0.01
EatTheseNuts: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Chuck42181 [Jd As]
outlawbc: folds
outlawbc leaves the table
Obi Juan: raises $0.08 to $0.10
Chuck42181: calls $0.09
EatTheseNuts: folds
*** FLOP *** [Ad 7d 5d]
Chuck42181: checks
Obi Juan: checks
*** TURN *** [Ad 7d 5d] [Ac]
Chuck42181: checks
Obi Juan: checks
*** RIVER *** [Ad 7d 5d Ac] [Ah]
fast25 has returned
Chuck42181: bets $0.22
Obi Juan: raises $4.93 to $5.15 and is all-in
Chuck42181: calls $4.93
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Obi Juan: shows [Ks Kh] (a full house, Aces full of Kings)
Chuck42181: shows [Jd As] (four of a kind, Aces)
Chuck42181 collected $10.02 from pot

102

TB
Leader
ID: 031811922
Sun, Oct 24, 2004, 15:03

I am creating an account on Paradise Poker. Anyone want to give me their email address to put in as their referral?

103

ChicagoTRS
Leader
ID: 566152116
Tue, Oct 26, 2004, 08:32

Any new poker stories?

Here is a recent memorable hand for me:

2.50-5.00 NL - I am in the dealer position.

Get dealt 8-9 diamonds. Betting to me, already 5 limp in the pot for $5 so I decide to call as I like this hand multi-way with position. Small blind raises it to $25...damn likely have to fold. Except 4 people call the $25 raise so I decide with this many people in the pot (plus I was up a good amount on the night already) I decide to gamble a little and call.

Flop: 5-6-7 rainbow =) could not ask for a better flop. Everyone checks around the table to me. With $150+ already in the pot I decide I can get away with a decent size bet and still get a caller or two because it will look like a steal. So I bet $70. Get one caller.

Turn: J - player checks to me...I bet $200...he calls.

River: 10 - player bets $100...I put him all in for ~$150 more.

He shows 6-7 for two pair...I show the straight. Kind of a miracle flop but definitely a fun hand...I figured him for a set or overpair.

104

ChicagoTRS
Leader
ID: 566152116
Tue, Oct 26, 2004, 13:20

Another memorable hand from the past week.

5-10 NL 6 handed table online. Very loose aggressive players.

I have 55 (presto) in a later position...limp in calling a $20 bet. 4 players in to see the flop. Flop comes 3-3-8...checks all around...Turn comes a 2...$10 bet everyone calls...I am kind of limping at this point...think there is a pretty good chance I have the best hand at the moment...River comes a 5 giving me 5s full of 3s...also put a flush and straight possibility on the board. Early player makes a pot size bet of ~$130. I smile...I figure he made a draw but I made a bigger draw. I raise him all-in for about $300 more. He must smile. Player immediately calls and shows 3-3 for four of a kind 3s...and takes the pot.

Really don't think there was much I could do on this hand...it was the right time to slow play for him...just hoping someone else picked up a hand and he got his wish. The only thing that could have saved me was some betting to get me to fold on the flop or turn...once I filled up on the river there was no way I was going to not lose all of my money on that hand.

105

R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Wed, Oct 27, 2004, 00:00

I had what could probably be called a miracle run at my last tournament. Not really for the big money you guys play at (was a 5$ entry, 46 players) but was fun nonetheless.

I made the final table (10 players), but was the obvious short stack with only 4,000$ left. (BB was 2,000$, average stack was 46,000$) Only the top 5 got paid out, so I wasn't looking forward to any winnings, but as this was only my 3rd money tourney ever I wasn't too unhappy with my expected 10th place finish. First hand I get dealt JQ, and obviously go all-in. Four people call, so I can actually make 16k if I can catch anything. Flop looks useless with A/low/low rainbow. Turn comes K, river comes 10, and I'm still in. The table laughs. Second hand I get dealt 10/J, and go all-in again. Get a couple callers, flop comes K/A/?, lots of betting between the two, which looks bad for me. River is a Q, both flip over two pairs, and the table laughs again when I take the smaller main pot.

I lay low for a while and watch them knock each other out, and creep into the final 5. I'm actually taking home a prize! I'm the obvious short stack again though, so I'm content to finish where I am. Ten hands and five coin-flip hands later, I'm tied in chips with the only other guy left. I had 3 pocket pairs (6's, 7's and 10's) vs. overcards and two overcards vs. pocket pairs, and all my hands held up or caught something. The table is no longer laughing. ;) The other guy and I trade a few small pots, then I get dealt A/7 hearts on the button. Flop comes two hearts, turn is useless, and the river is another heart. He had bet small leading up to the river, but when the 3rd heart fell he went all in. Couldn't believe it. He turns over K/8 hearts. Poor guy. ;)

So I go from 10th and practically nothing, all the way to first (and 92$) thanks to two silly straight draws, 5 straight coin flip wins, and a dream matchup of K-high and A-high flushes. I wish I could claim I played brilliantly, but a monkey could've won with the cards I got. :)

106

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Fri, Oct 29, 2004, 00:57

Every now and then you can get lucky...

Playing $0.50/$1 $25 N/L and I meant to hit CALL after the flop (with my 2 paid 9s/6s), but hits FOLD by mistake. You can see/guess how much filling this 9s over 6s full boat would have cost me!

***** Hand History for Game 1113820157 *****
0/0 TexasHTGameTable (NL) - Fri Oct 29 00:39:31 EDT 2004
Table Table 11407 (Real Money) -- Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: SUSAN821 ( $8.25)
Seat 2: MSPOKERCHAMP ( $45.35)
Seat 3: joedinny ( $54.2)
Seat 4: RudolphKnobs ( $18.25)
Seat 5: Cr11sh ( $17)
Seat 6: dixiegrey30 ( $25)
Seat 7: Goose779 ( $40.45)
Seat 8: huddybrown ( $21.02)
Seat 9: KATIND ( $11.22)
Seat 10: skankboy ( $49.96) <-- at risk
KATIND posts small blind (0.25)
skankboy posts big blind (0.5)
dixiegrey30 posts big blind (0.5)
Goose779 posts big blind + dead (0.75)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to skankboy [ 6h, 9s ]
SUSAN821 folds.
MSPOKERCHAMP calls (0.5)
joedinny folds.
RudolphKnobs folds.
Cr11sh folds.
dixiegrey30 checks.
Goose779 checks.
huddybrown calls (0.5)
KATIND calls (0.25)
skankboy checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 6s, 9c, Tc ]
KATIND checks.
skankboy checks. <--- I have no idea why?
MSPOKERCHAMP bets (3)
dixiegrey30 folds.
Goose779 calls (3)
huddybrown folds.
KATIND folds.
skankboy folds. <-- mis-clicked!
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 9d ]<-- bummed!!!
MSPOKERCHAMP checks.
Goose779 bets (6)
MSPOKERCHAMP calls (6)
** Dealing River ** : [ Th ]
MSPOKERCHAMP checks.
Goose779 checks.
** Summary **
Main Pot: $20.2 | Rake: $1.05
Board: [ 6s 9c Tc 9d Th ]
SUSAN821 balance $8.25, didn't bet (folded)
MSPOKERCHAMP balance $35.85, lost $9.5 [ Qc Qd ] [ two pairs, queens and tens -- Qc,Qd,Tc,Th,9c ]
joedinny balance $54.2, didn't bet (folded)
RudolphKnobs balance $18.25, didn't bet (folded)
Cr11sh balance $17, didn't bet (folded)
dixiegrey30 balance $24.5, lost $0.5 (folded)
Goose779 balance $50.9, bet $9.75, collected $20.2, net +$10.45 [ 7s Td ] [ a full house, Tens full of nines -- Td,Tc,Th,9c,9d ]
huddybrown balance $20.52, lost $0.5 (folded)
KATIND balance $10.72, lost $0.5 (folded)
skankboy balance $49.46, lost $0.5 (folded) <-- saved about $40 that i'm sure i would have bet!

107

ChicagoTRS
ID: 28953121
Fri, Oct 29, 2004, 01:33

RFS...Once that 10 hit the river you would have had to played it somewhat conservative (if you didn't have all of your money in already).

That happens to me all of the time (not accidently folding but being forced out of a hand and seeing your miracle card come only to realize I would have been crushed by a bigger hand)...it especially drives me nuts when it is a hand I would normally play but the preflop betting/raising forces me to fold...and then you get a great flop.

108

ChicagoTRS
ID: 28953121
Fri, Oct 29, 2004, 01:43

Nice(lucky) hand from tonight...

2-4 NL 10 handed...pretty solid table...get dealt 77...$12 before the flop...I call, 3 people in the pot.

Flop 10-A-7...both players check to me...I bet $19...both call.

Turn Q...both players check again...I bet $50...preflop raiser puts me all-in for $160 more...no read on this player...but I can't lay down my set here...I am hoping AQ...but there are a lot of hands out there that crush me...I call anyway.

River...my case 7.

I take the pot with 4 of a kind 7s. The other player mucks and will not tell me what she had...figure I sucked out with that 7. About an hour later the hand finally shows up in the hand history...she had pocket aces and was way ahead until that river. She had to be steamed. Feels good to be on the other end of one of those for once...can't count the number of times people have miracled me on the last card.

109

louky
ID: 24193023
Fri, Oct 29, 2004, 02:06

Hey guys, not on the boards much any more, but playing quite a bit at party poker... mostly 5-10, and some 10-20. Screen name is louky1960, if any gurupies are playin be sure to say hello. Having good luck there, 1st and 5th in $50 multi NL tourneys this month.

110

beastiemiked
Sustainer
ID: 03531815
Fri, Oct 29, 2004, 09:57

Having good luck there, 1st and 5th in $50 multi NL tourneys this month.

Wow, congrats. How many people were in those tournies?

I finished 2nd in a $15 freezeout against 192 players over at Gaming Club on Tuesday. I thought the field was fairly weak as the majority of my chips came from either stealing the blinds or betting/reraising after the flop with nothing. I also played in a $20 rebuy tourney yesterday and even though I busted out(I was a little below an average stack and lost in a race situation) about 20 before the money I could tell the field was pretty weak. During the rebuy period there was little preflop raises yet after the flop guys would go all in with middle pair and no draw. These are only 2 multi tournies but they seem very beatable in the long run. Of course with multi-table tournies that long run could be after 500 tournaments.

111

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Oct 29, 2004, 10:07

Do you guys think there is sufficient interest for me to set up a separate Poker Forum? And if so, should the topic be broader than Poker?

112

beastiemiked
Sustainer
ID: 03531815
Fri, Oct 29, 2004, 10:12

It should be broader than poker. Something that could incorporate threads like the dvd and music threads over in the politics forum.

113

FRICK
ID: 268522714
Fri, Oct 29, 2004, 10:16

I agree, could you make it a Misc. Forum, or OT Forum.

I know there is also a thread in the football Forum talking about Grand Theft Auto currently.

Do feel that these threads should all be directed to a new Forum, or would people continue to post in the Forum that they post most often in/current sport?

114

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Oct 29, 2004, 10:33

An off-topic forum. Hmmmm.....

Would anything be off-topic in an off-topic forum?

115

ChicagoTRS
Leader
ID: 566152116
Fri, Oct 29, 2004, 10:45

Poker is so hot right now that a seperate forum may actually generate some new visitors to the web site. I am not sure if we have the current traffic that it needs its own forum but then again I guess that in the past few months since we started these threads there have been over 1000 posts regarding poker. I don't think it is much of a reach for this web site as poker is just another game and in some ways has parallels to fantasy sports type games...statistics, game theory, different strategies, professional players, etc...

I would love to see it get its own forum as it may increase the amount of people posting and talking about poker.

116

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Fri, Oct 29, 2004, 10:52

Poker and Games forum? Entertainment forum?

Could include poker, DVDs, MP3s and music, movies, TV, video games (reviews and tips, etc...), books and geneal entertainment.

I'd like to disucss to 7 card stud strategy....

117

Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Fri, Oct 29, 2004, 11:35

I like rfs' "Entertainment" forum idea. No poker doesn't deserve it's own forum.

118

louky
ID: 24193023
Fri, Oct 29, 2004, 12:46

bmd, there are usually about 600-800 in those tourneys. The winners share when I won was 9020.00. It was the perfect scenerio...dealt 99. I was SB and and made the minimum raise, the guy calls. Flop is 9K9. made the minimum bet again, and lucky for me the guy played KQ, so he goes all in, and that was that.

I've done well in those by just being VERY tight the 1st hour, with 720 players (that seems to be the # alot) if you survive til the 1st break, an hour, the field is down to about half. From there it seems to boil down to how well you flop, the night I won, my 44's beat a guy's QQ's. That hand put me near the chip leaders, later at the final table I knocked the same guy out when I had QQ vs his JJ. Bottom line, what I've done is just make the top 90, get my $ back plus, then hope the flop gods are with me when it's time to double.

119

beastiemiked
Sustainer
ID: 03531815
Fri, Oct 29, 2004, 14:28

That's a nice little sum. I thought my $550 score was pretty sweet but it pales to the 9 grand. I hope you went out and bought yourself something nice. I know I immediately cashed out half my prize so I don't ever end up giving it back to them.

I agree about playing tight in the opening rounds. Playing a hand like KJ or QT in any position can get you in deep trouble. I normally play straight up in the early stages because a lot of the weaker players will hand their chips to you so there's no reason to get ultra aggressive. As the tourney progresses that's when blind steals and bluffs become necessary. A4 UTG might not look that great but from the cutoff with no one in the pot it's definitely worthy of a raise.

120

GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 060151121
Fri, Oct 29, 2004, 15:51

Since you have the horse racing forum that is not seeing much action, why not a Gaming / Entertainment forum that could cover horses, poker, etc.

JMHO.

Cliff

121

louky
ID: 24193023
Fri, Oct 29, 2004, 17:43

bmd, I pull 25% of my bankroll each week, sorta semi retired now, I've been doing this for a few months now. Playing mostly 5-10, you can make a few bucks there, and there enough bad players that over a weeks time I almost allways show a profit. The tourney's are a bonus, usually play about 2 or 3 a week.

122

Micheal
ID: 25381417
Fri, Oct 29, 2004, 17:56

Just out of curiosity, how much is a few bucks?

123

TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Fri, Oct 29, 2004, 19:28

Not sure which issue, but check the recent Sports Illustrated issues and look for a Rick Reily article that bashes poker on TV. It is actually pretty funny...

THK

124

beastiemiked
ID: 262411016
Fri, Oct 29, 2004, 19:52

One thing about Multi's is you have to catch some cards at some point in the tourney. I'm playing in a multi right now and after 2 hours my best starting hand has been AQ followed by pocket 7's. The only reason I'm still in is because I quadrupled up on a semi-bluff flush draw and hit. It's no fun being short stacked.

125

louky
ID: 24193023
Fri, Oct 29, 2004, 21:05

Michael, I've been running between 300-1200 a week, excluding tourneys.

bmd, which site do you play, and how did your multi finish?

126

Micheal
ID: 25381417
Fri, Oct 29, 2004, 23:28

DOLLARS??? Man, I've gotta get in on this.

127

louky
ID: 24193023
Sat, Oct 30, 2004, 00:04

bmd, just busted out of a multi, had AK cracked by AQ, after I put the guy all in pre flop, Q on the river doh!! Then short stacked I go all in and the same guy calls me... I have JJ vs his A 10, flop A 10 K, blank on the turn and an A on the river. Oh well, can't win them all.

128

beastiemiked
ID: 262411016
Sun, Oct 31, 2004, 12:51

I play at Party and Gaming Club.

I had a little lest than average stack about 25 spots away from the money when I was dealt AK in middle position. Everyone folds to me and I bet 2k with the blinds at 400/800. The button and big blind call. Flop comes A K 7 rainbow. The big blind, who was the chip leader at that point, checks I check and the button checks. I was hoping for a bet from the button but I figured even if the button checks the big blind will make a steal attempt on the turn. Turn comes 5 of hearts making a flush draw out there. Big blind makes an odd 800 bet. I immediately raise up to 6k leaving myself with about 7k. The button folds and the big blind thinks for a second and calls. River is a 3 of spades. Big blind checks and should've checked but I bet half my stack and he immediately reraised me all in. I figured I was beat but I was pot committed so I called. He flips over 64 offsuit and rakes the pot and I leave the tourney about 20 spots away from the money which would've been about $90(1st place was 3.5k). I wish I could say I played the hand correctly but I know I didn't.

129

APerfect10
ID: 476262718
Tue, Nov 02, 2004, 21:54

Played some $1-$2 blinds NL-Hold 'Em this weekend in AC. Got pocket Aces within the first few hands. One guy raised the bet to $15, I re-raise to $30. Then he re-raises me to $45. I figure he must have pocket Kings. I put him all in for $210 and he folds. Shows me the cards and he had Pocket Jacks. Is it me, or is that just a horrible play??

130

rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Tue, Nov 02, 2004, 21:56

Horrible play to raise. It was agood play to FINALLY fold.

131

wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Tue, Nov 02, 2004, 22:08

AP10, only thing that makes sense if he thought you were trying to buy the pot. Either way, seems stupid to me.

I had a tough one tonight, playing a 2-4 NL table. I was dealt KQ of diamonds. I was big blind and everyone called. I just checked, pot was at 32 dollars. Flop comes out 4-7-9 all diamonds, I hit my staight, I slow play and bet 4 dollars, called by 3 then the 4th guy goes all in with 46 dollars, everyone folds to me, I call, next 2 fold and last guy calls. Pot is now at 186 dollars and I am feeling great. Next card comes out 2 of clubs. I go all in with 51 more and it gets called pot is at 288 dollars, all cards are shown. The first all in has rockets, unfortunately 1 is a diamond, other all in has 8-2 of diamonds, he has a flush but mine takes his out. As long as another diamond doesnt hit I am sitting pretty, especially with that many on the board. Just my luck, last card 3 of diamonds. I lost that nuce pot. Those losses are hard to take, but I guess is better then losing the hands where you have rockets and get beat by 2 7 offsuit because the flop came out 772. Oh well, enough complaining.

132

APerfect10
ID: 476262718
Tue, Nov 02, 2004, 22:21

Wow, talk about bad luck; that sucks.

I got lucky somemore after my Aces hands. I was about even after sitting there for a few hours and not playing much and just paying the blinds. I get A-Q off-suit in an early position.

I raise to $15 and 3 ro 4 people call. Flop comes A-Q-8. I bet $20 and the guy next to me folds, but the 2 or 3 others call. I figure them both for an Ace with a decent kicker. Turn is a Jack. I feel I have the best hand and go all-in for another $250. Didn't want anyone to have A-K and get lucky with a 10 on the River. Everyone folds and I win around $100. Turns out the guy who folded after the flop had K-10. The Jack on the turn would have given him teh straight but he didn't wanna risk $20+ for the gut-shot draw. Good thing I came out firing after teh flop.

133

ChicagoTRS
ID: 211047122
Tue, Nov 02, 2004, 23:55

To keep on the flush draw theme...big hand I lost Friday night...

10-20 NL 10-handed table...have had an incredible run of winning the past two months so I figure I can experiment with the big boys. Sit down with $1200.

After about 30 minutes of play I am sitting with ~$1300 after stealing a pot of two and losing a pot or two...just up a little. Feeling pretty comfortable at this level...it is a lot of money but had convinced myself to play my game and try and ignore the dollar amounts being thrown around. Table is playing pretty fast and loose...a lot of raising reraising...a style I like to play against if I can get cards to go to war with.

Then this hand comes up...dealt pocket AA. I few people in and I raise the pot to $200...get one caller...A loose player I am pretty familiar with.

Flop all unders but two diamonds...check to me...I make a pot size bet wanting to just take the pot down and protect from the flush draw...other player raises to $800...I think I am ahead (at least hope I am) so I push all-in...if I am going to make the call might as well push in as I figure I am pot committed and the money will be going in the pot at the turn. He calls the all-in and shows A-4 diamonds...has a pair of 4s with the flush draw giving him 11 outs (9 diamonds and 2 4s) of course he hits the diamond on the river and I lose a +$2600 pot. He didn't have the pot odds to make that kind of play but he hit his diamond so what can you do.

That really hurt as that was a monster pot (for me anyway)...ended up coming back and only losing $500 on the night...just marked it down as a learning experience...don't think I played it wrong.

Pocket AA getting crushed all weekend as I won a big pot when I hit 4 of a kind on the river vs set aces who filled up on the river.

134

Jazz Dreamers
ID: 12107917
Wed, Nov 10, 2004, 18:16

I've just started playing poker online and am trying to take my game seriously. Right now, I'm playing low stakes $0.50/$1.00 limit HE, with a starting bankroll of $100. My goal is to bring that up to $400, which would hopefully be some evidence that I know what I am doing enough to beat some really awful players. (I'm about halfway there now.)

The thing is, I'd really like to make this bankroll last and slowly move up to higher and higher limits. (I was thinking of trying $0.50/$1.00 Omaha Hi/Lo next for a little bit, just so I can also vary what games I play. Then I could move up to $1/2 HE with an ample bankroll of say $500.) Though it won't be relevant to me for a long time, I am curious about people's feelings for what kind of bankroll you should have in the following situations:

1) Playing a loose limit game that you feel comfortable you can beat

2) Playing a limit game that you think you can beat, but maybe not by very much

3) Playing a loose no limit game that you feel comfortable you can beat

4) Playing a no limit game that you think you can beat, but maybe not by very much

Given how big swings can occur so frequently, I wonder how many BBs (big bets in the case of limit, big blinds in the case of no limit) are needed to have an adequate bankroll in each of these cases. One possible assumption is that you want a 99% (or more generally x%) degree of certainty that you won't go bust due to the variance in the game.

135

TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Wed, Nov 10, 2004, 19:30

#3) If you can find a loose NL game there is nothing better if you play correctly.

THK

136

ChicagoTRS
ID: 211047122
Wed, Nov 10, 2004, 23:42

Generally in Limit you want 200-300 the BB.

In No Limit you want 6-8x the buy-in.

Then again a lot of depends on what kind of player you are. If you are very tight there is generally less swings...if you are loose aggressive you will need more to absorb the swings...if you are very bad it doesn't matter how much money you have.

I would suggest learning to beat one game consistently before changing games and limits.
Play at least a 100 hours at one type game. Or play until you can beat a game 8 out of 10 sessions. Win at a level for awhile...take some money out...know you can beat a game...then you are ready to step up levels.

137

Chuck
Sustainer
ID: 169212110
Mon, Nov 15, 2004, 01:29

I won this hand (my biggest pot ever). I'm just wondering if you guys would have done the whole thing. Would you have played this the same way with all the same moves? The fact that he never re-raised made me confident he only had top pair. This was a guy who just sat down at the table, so I had no history of his aggressiveness.

PokerStars Game #859518661: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2004/11/15 - 01:14:05
(ET)
Table 'Kalypso' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: JBRrounder ($78.95 in chips)
Seat 5: Chuck42181 ($212 in chips)
Seat 6: Witzo ($166.50 in chips)
Seat 9: sherryjones ($46 in chips)
JBRrounder: posts small blind $1
Chuck42181: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Chuck42181 [Ah As]
Witzo: raises $4 to $6
sherryjones: folds
JBRrounder: folds
Chuck42181: raises $4 to $10
Witzo: calls $4
*** FLOP *** [6s 8d Qc]
Chuck42181: bets $20
Witzo: calls $20
*** TURN *** [6s 8d Qc] [Jh]
Chuck42181: bets $50
Witzo: calls $50
*** RIVER *** [6s 8d Qc Jh] [5s]
Chuck42181: bets $132 and is all-in
Witzo: calls $86.50 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Chuck42181: shows [Ah As] (a pair of Aces)
Witzo: mucks hand
Chuck42181 collected $332 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $334 | Rake $2
Board [6s 8d Qc Jh 5s]
Seat 1: JBRrounder (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: Chuck42181 (big blind) showed [Ah As] and won ($332) with a pair of Aces
Seat 6: Witzo mucked [Kh Qs] - a pair of Queens
Seat 9: sherryjones (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

138

ChicagoTRS
Leader
ID: 566152116
Mon, Nov 15, 2004, 11:13

No problem with how you played it. Dangerous hand when you are out of position because with the smooth calls of the big bets you have to fear a made set but not much you can do about it...you have to figure you are facing either: top pair good kicker, made set, KK, if it is a real loose player there is the chance of two pair but your preflop raise should eliminate that type hand.

With the big calls of your bets you have to figure you are at least 50/50 depending on the read on the opponent...the fact that the table was so shorthanded would also give me some confidence you are in good shape. I have won and lost in that same spot many times.

One reason I will sometimes make big preflop calls with a pocket pair. If my opponent has a big enough stack and I also have enough money on the table and I figure him for AA or KK....sometimes I will call that 5-10x big blind preflop raise knowing if I get my set I will likely be able to double up. Implied odds...

139

ukula
ID: 259101021
Tue, Nov 16, 2004, 06:34

Has anyone ever used an odds calculator while playing online?

Forum: basePage 17346Subject: OT - Texas Hold 'em poker discussion/talk - VII

Forum: base
Page 17346
Subject: OT - Texas Hold 'em poker discussion/talk - VII