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0 Subject: Hero's - Part IV

Posted by: Promize
- [30848116] Wed, Sep 12, 12:47

Getting a bit long in that 3 thread...

Anyways,

I was listening to I think CBS talk about that it looks like the passengers of pittsburgh flight my of been the cause of the crash... They think they might of uprised against the hostages, forcing confusion or something... Causing the plain to crash. And all though all these people perished, they could of possible saved thousands of other lives.

Of course, anyone who has died in this tragedy.. I still believe is a hero in one way or another..

Another amazing story I heard was the police officer they pulled out alive this morning fell 92 stories.
1Khahan
      ID: 12432113
      Wed, Sep 12, 12:49
Yes, many people suspected that something heroic had happened on that flight. Just refer to the 1st thread and you will see a number of people posting about this.
In fact, many online news sources (which I can no longer access to put up links) indicate that 1 gentleman had called his wife and told her all that was going on. The story included quotes from the man telling his wife they were all going to die and he and 3 others were going to do something about it.
Try cnn.com, msnbc.com and yahoo news.
I wish I could remember the gentleman's name to post as he and any who helped him is truly a hero.
2Promize
      ID: 30848116
      Wed, Sep 12, 12:52
Also, didn't know the aftermath thread had already started... Didn't mean to step on anyones shoes... But maybe we can just post about heroic stories in this thread.

God bless everyone today
3JeffG
      Donor
      ID: 40451227
      Wed, Sep 12, 15:10
There sure were heroes on that plane, saving the White House, Camp David, the Capitol or some other US target from the same barbaric destruction.

Just curious if anyone thought of another possibility.

See this CNN timeline. The White House was evacuated at 9:45 AM, and the plane crashed 10:10 AM. Is it possible that US warplanes took flight 93 out?
4Harkonnon
      ID: 50230315
      Wed, Sep 12, 15:28
Jeff G

leave it as it is, a heroic act by a few

nobody wants to compromise a poor guy that had to make the decision to shoot down the plane nor the crew of a jet that had to execute the order. Imagine the feelings of these people.

So leave the stone unturned !!!

my 2 cents

5Ender
      ID: 52438315
      Wed, Sep 12, 15:33
Hark, I agree, but from the reports I saw last night there is no evidence at all that the plane was shot down anyway. There was an eyewitness to the crash that said the plane was flying normally (outside the obvious crash approach) and he could hear no signs of engine trouble. Certianly he would have reported any sign of the plane having been shot down.
6Harkonnon
      ID: 50230315
      Wed, Sep 12, 15:40
ender

well, so it shall be written !

End of Subject !

Too many sad stories already ............
7wildyams/katietx
      ID: 3483513
      Wed, Sep 12, 17:31
Not necessarily a "hero" story, but well said nonetheless:TRIBUTE TO AMERICA
>
>The following, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing.
>
>Its subject is "America: The Good Neighbor"
>
>Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a
>remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a
>Canadian television commentator. What follows is the full text of his
>trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record:
>
>"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the
>most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the
>earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were
>lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in
>billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these
>countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to
>the United States.
>
>When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans
who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on
the
>streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
>
>When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that
>hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were
>flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.
>>The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars
into
>discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing
about the decadent, warmongering Americans.
> I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the
>erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any
>other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet,
the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly
them?
Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes?
Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on
the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You
talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about
American technocracy, and you find men on the moon-not once, but
several
times-and safely home again. You talk about scandals, and the Americans
put
theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their
draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our
streets, and
most of
them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American
dollars
from ma and pa at home to spend here.
>
>When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down
through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the
>Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody
loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke.
> I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of
>other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone
else race to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside
help
even during the San Francisco earthquake.
>
>Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned
tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this
thing
with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb
their
nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope
Canada
is not one of those."
>
>Stand proud, America!
>
>This is one of the best editorials that I have ever read or heard
>regarding the United States. It is nice that one man realizes it. I
>only wish that the rest of the world would realize it. We are always
>blamed for everything, and never even get a thank you for the things
>we do.
>I would hope that each of you would send this to as many people as you
can and emphasize that they should send it to as many of their friends
until this letter is sent to every person on the web. I am just a
single
American
who has read this, but I SURE HOPE THAT A LOT MORE READ IT SOON.






8James K Polk
      ID: 288131219
      Wed, Sep 12, 19:13
katietx -- that is quite a famous editorial, but not everyone realizes that it was actually written in 1973. Not that it changes its connection to today's events -- it's as relevant as ever. At the time, it was quite poignant because of heavy criticism of U.S. involvement in Vietnam, etc. Here's a little background, for anyone interested.
9James K Polk
      ID: 288131219
      Wed, Sep 12, 20:19
Oops. Hadn't read this thread before posting that link. Much more background on Gordon Sinclair there.
10Wammie
      ID: 437541618
      Wed, Sep 12, 20:22
I'm sorry, but these people took back the plane from hijackers and saved hundreds if not thousands of lives. We cannot thank them, but we can thank their families. it was a very heroic act. as well as the deads of all the men and women are helped and are helping in this disaster.
11steve houpt
      ID: 208461016
      Thu, Sep 13, 02:16
In theory, if jets were going to be scrambled and shoot down anything, they would have done it about 9:15 AM when American Airlines Flight 77 reached Ohio/KY and turned around, turned off transponder and headed for DC.

12steve houpt
      ID: 208461016
      Thu, Sep 13, 02:18
Most detailed coverage of UA-93 passenfer calls

Apparently were conference calls with wife to 911 and FBI.
13steve houpt
      ID: 208461016
      Thu, Sep 13, 02:41
Here is a timeline I tried to put together from about 10 news articles.


7:59 AM __ American Airlines - 11 __ takes off from Boston
8:01 AM __ United Airlines - 93 __ takes off from Newark
8:11 AM __ American Airlines - 77 __ takes off from Dulles
8:15 AM __ AA-11 __ flight taken over by hijackers, heads north
8:15 AM __ United Airlines - 175 __ takes off from Boston
8:20 AM __ AA-11 __ failed to follow instructions, mike keyed
8:25 AM __ AA-11 __ Flight Attendent calls AA ops center and informs them of hijacking (approx time)
8:29 AM __ AA-11 __ veered left and headed due south, directly for NYC
8:47 AM __ UA-175 __ on course, heading southwest, when west of Geo Wash bridge over NJ made a sharp left turn
8:48 AM __ AA-11 __ crashed into WTC
8:51 AM __ AA-77 __ reached normal cruising alt (35K)
8:59 AM __ UA-175 __ another sharp left turn toward second tower
9:00 AM __ AA-77 __ reaching Ohio, tracking beacon turned off, turned around (heading towards Wash)
9:03 AM __ UA-175 __ crashed into WTC
9:03 AM __ White House __ Cheney watches second plane crash into WTC
9:04 AM __ White House __ Secret Service grabbed Cheney and headed for "PEOC" (Pres Emergency Op Ctr)
9:05 AM __ NY Times OPED __ In theory, an early enough warning that a third hijacked plane was heading toward Wash might have triggered the launching of supersonic fighter planes
9:05 AM __ White House __ VP called President in FLA who had just boarded AF1 and urged him not to come back to Wash DC
9:06 AM __ White House __ VP told 6 commercial aircraft were unaccounted for
9:15 AM __ UA - 93 __ reaches Cleveland, mike goes dead after ATC (CNN report) heard some transissions saying, "get out of hear, get out of hear and we have a bomb". (time approx)
9:17 AM __ FAA __ NYC airports closed down
9:25 AM __ AA-77 __ Barbara Olson calls husband at Justice Dept, tells him plane hijacked
9:30 AM __ AA-77 __ Olson calls back, says passengers had been herded to back of plane AND pilot was with them
9:30 AM __ AA-77 __ Ted Olson relays info to Justice Dept Command Center
9:30 AM __ UA - 93 __ numerous cell phone calls: Jeremy Glick to wife who conferenced call to 911 who told Glick about WTC (time approx)
9:30 AM __ UA - 93 __ numerous cell phone calls: Thomas Burnett, series of 4 calls to wife who conferenced calls with FBI and gathered info about other flights (time approx)
9:32 AM __ AA-77 __ ATC can see plane is headed for restricted air space around White house
9:40 AM __ FAA __ shuts down US air system
9:43 AM __ AA-77 __ crashed into Pentagon
9:45 AM __ White House __ PEOC informed 4 international and one Korean flight headed for Wash DC and it could not be determined if they were part of terrorist attacks
9:57 AM __ Air Force One __ Bush departs Florida on AF1
10:05 AM __ UA - 93 __ 911 call recieved in Westmoreland PA from passenger locked in rest room on plane, call went dead
10:10 AM __ UA - 93 __ crashed SE of Pittsburgh, PA
10:24 AM __ FAA __ all inbound transatlantic flights being diverted to Canada
12:30 PM __ FAA __ all but 50 US commercial flights on ground. None in air reporting trouble
1:04 PM __ Air Force One __ Bush speaks from Barksdale AFB in Shreveport, LA
1:48 PM __ Air Force One __ Bush departs Louisiana on AF1
14Harkonnon
      ID: 50230315
      Thu, Sep 13, 03:31
re post 7

if this text stands for anything it shows the narrowsightedness of North American People ! Sorry if that offends anyone here, but this "bullsh1t" offends me even more !

But in the wake of this Terror Tragedy I'm certainly not in the mood to take the time to shred the mostly false facts of this into pieces !

Hark
15sarge33rd
      ID: 25818711
      Thu, Sep 13, 06:41
Harkkonen-you have defined yourself for me. You are, short-sighted, arrogant, condescending, naive, ignorant of the facts and otherwise pretty much ill informed. You have your opinion and you are entitled to it. *shrug* I'm sorry you feel the way you do.
16Harkonnon
      ID: 50230315
      Thu, Sep 13, 07:03
well sarge I can say you are a gun slingin...

but that is not the way to response as you obviously are not able to understand my point that way

even without going into the "facts" listed above

I can tell you I feel as much attacked as any US person !

This is an attack on the world and right now almost all of the world is reaching out it's hand in solidarity. And it does not matter to me if this cowardly attack happened in New York, Paris, London etc. My/our readyness to solidarize and fight these evil crimes would be just the same !

But this text above is nothing but a snub to the rest of the world in this case mostly the nations mentioned.

I accept this is a time of pain and grief especially for the United States, but downgrading the hands reaching out for help from all over is certainly not the way to do it !

I hope this makes you understand why I'm offended by this text that basically says "All non Americans stink ! !
17sarge33rd
      ID: 25818711
      Thu, Sep 13, 07:14
Hark- on the contrary, what the text says, is quit telling America that THEY stink. IT says that America has stretched a helping hand to nation after nation after nation, and often times gets only rhetoric in return.
18Harkonnon
      ID: 50230315
      Thu, Sep 13, 07:23
sarge
I'm very well aware what the text says or intends to say as well as I'm aware of the time this was typed in.

But the text says stop to say America stinks as you are a lousy bunch of ....

You see the offense is the downgrading of all others !

and the reason I did not go into Details of the facts, I deeply feel this would be a disrespect to all the people dying maybe even now and then discussings eggs and bees.

I just wanted to state that I as an European feel offended by the tone of this text !
19steve houpt
      ID: 208461016
      Thu, Sep 13, 07:36
Well Hark, I am glad. It was probably intended for someone like you when it was written no matter how you say you feel. We don't need you.

20Harkonnon
      ID: 50230315
      Thu, Sep 13, 07:56
well Steve

one could not better sum up what I wanted to explain to Sarge !

21Wammie
      ID: 20039259
      Thu, Sep 13, 12:13
Hark, as an american i am offended by you. We just lost up possibly as many as 30K people tuesday, and you have to gaul to come in here and say you are offended by a pro-american news article. Shut the hell up.

Maybe you do feel attacked, and to an extent you were attacked. and now who do you think is going to do something about it? sure as hell won't be Europe. Again the United States do what has to be done, and protect the world. I have many friends and family who are in the military and who have been called to action. it is their ASSES on the line right now so that our country to the rest of the world won't have to deal with this kind of thing ever again.

Hark, have you given to the Red Cross yet?
22Khahan
      ID: 12432113
      Thu, Sep 13, 12:22
Hark, at any other time, you may actually get constructive debate out people on this board about that editorial. Right now though, to post what you posted, no matter what your intent, is FELT as a kick in the ribs while we are down.
Just wait a few days, please. Give America time to mourn. Then stand up and let us know what you think.
All people are asking for is time for themselves to mourn and a respectfull amount of time for the memory of those who lost their lives on Tuesday.
23Khahan
      ID: 12432113
      Thu, Sep 13, 12:27
You want heroes? I heard they just located 3 fire fighters in the Tower rubble who are alive!
That is great news if there is such a thing related to these events.
24patjams
      ID: 22858138
      Thu, Sep 13, 12:29
Hark, but what you fail to see is that had this attack taken place in Paris or London, or anywhere else outside the U.S., the U.S. would be the 1st foreign country on it's way to help. I have yet to hear about any foreigners headed to New York to help look for survivors. You see Hark, there is a HUGE difference between offfering your condolences and offering help. One is being involved and the other is making a commitment. I'll let you decide which is more honorable.
25Dec
      ID: 48541115
      Thu, Sep 13, 12:58
The difference if the attack would take place in Paris or London is that they will accept help from their foreign country friends. Blood donations were made in Israel yesterday and were ready to be deliver in the US but they politly decline the offer.
26Khahan
      ID: 12432113
      Thu, Sep 13, 13:01
Dec, I can't say for sure, but that may be because the blood is needed just as much in Israel. Possibly even more so.
27steve houpt
      ID: 208461016
      Thu, Sep 13, 13:04
Dec - I think that is because there is not the shortage of blood that was expected (or hoped for - because there are so few survivors).

So rather than take what was not needed at this time, you now have a larger blood supply.

28beastiemiked
      ID: 17414316
      Thu, Sep 13, 13:09
"NEW YORK (CNN) -- Five firefighters, who had been missing since Tuesday's collapse of the World Trade Center Towers were found alive Thursday.

The firefighters were found in an SUV that had been buried in the rubble. "

29Perm Dude
      Leader
      ID: 38728300
      Thu, Sep 13, 13:10
Hark et al. That Canadian editorial was written in 1973 in response to anti-Americanism in the wake of OPEC.

Don't know if this changes this for you guys, but thought you'd want to know.

pd
30Dec
      ID: 48541115
      Thu, Sep 13, 13:30
These firefighters will never get all the credits they deserve. When you think that before a sinister they are in a safe place and they putting themselfs inside a soon to be collapse tower to help people survive. They are what humanity has the best to offer.
31cab
      Donor
      ID: 783144
      Thu, Sep 13, 14:13
Wammie..."and now who do you think is going to do something about it? sure as hell won't be Europe." is a slight injustice IMO...

My great grandfather faught in the Boer war in South Africa...My grandfather fought in the second world war...Aussies and Kiwis fought in WW1,Korea,Vietnam,Falklands and in the gulf war...And in fact,have peace keeping troops in East Timour at the moment...They all fought for exactly the same principles as Americans did...The fact of the matter is there are many,many nations that are a whole lot smaller than the United States...They don't have the resources the U.S does...But the majority of them do what they can to support, what you could call,the leaders of the free world...I would be very dissappointed indeed if the leader of my country does not lend it's full support behind the U.S and offers whatever it can(be it troops/first aid or whatever)...
32Khahan
      ID: 12432113
      Thu, Sep 13, 14:35
Actually, Cab makes some very valid points. As stinging as it may be to think of that right now, its something we as Americans need to remember. Otherwise we stand to fall prey to exactly the kind of thinking that whack-jobs like Bin Laden accuse us of.
Thank you for the gentle reminder Cab and just like so many countries are showing their support and offering assistance to America, let us as Americans not forget that.
33Harkonnon
      ID: 50230315
      Thu, Sep 13, 16:12
well guys

I'll try to clear that all up and hope to get it across for anyone to understand (do me a favor and read it all before you say anything)

the anti americanism part was at no time a thing I was offended by or wanted to critcise at all.

What offended me was the part that basically said

You Europeans sit back and do nothing !!!!!!!


Have you any idea what's going here in Germany and I'm sure that is true for most European countries.

-The NATO has decided to join the Anti-Terror operations, which basically declares us as war zone

-Army is on alert and ready to go. Troops currently in Bosnia ready to be recalled

-On every Airport Freightliners are on standby to transport Blood Donations to the Usa at the moment they called for.

-side note The Polish Army donated blood that is ready to go

-People are donating blood everywhere

-spontaneous Protest Rallies in some major cities to express the anger about this terrible terror attack

-Police Forces are on high alert, every American Institution is guarded with Top Security measurement 24 hours a day.

-Parliament has seating to overrule constitution for allowing German Troops to allow Armed Operations on Foreign Soil. Yeah that's part of the German constitution since 1955

- all Logistic operations preparing possible Armed Strike

- Air Control is under maximum alert as Warning Time is at a Minimum here.

- Multiple Fake (thank god) Bomb Threats in every major city. Evacuations of several Landmark buildings

- Islamic People (mostly Turkish and Middle East) upset about heavy police investigations

I come back home from a 24 hour study with all kinds of horrible news and pictures (bless you that do not have to see them all) and what do I see.

A text that basically said you danm Europeans do nothing but sit back and watch TV.

Followed by some "facts" that basically say you are so dumb you can not even do this or that.

This part of the text is so full of false things it is ridiculous. Just a few things like Concorde, Airbus and Tornado (these are the fighter jets that cleaned out anti aircraft devices in Bosnia before US planes even joined as the US Army did not have the same technology)
I don't want to even talk about the state of railroad technology. But this is not the point I want to make anyway.

Just because you did not see all the actions above on CNN and people say false (in this case very old and very off-topic) things and basically insult every step taken here in Europe to get a hold on this terror you say it is out of line to feel offended by this downgrading of European efforts.

Be assured that anyone here is working as hard as the USA to solve this situation.

Next thing
Possible Attack on Afghanistan

all over the place I see lines like bomb them, kill them, erase them whatever.

Afghanistan is a country under a terror regime called Taliban that tries to establish a pure Islamic State (no technology et all)

The Taliban are basically are regimen born out of the the Mudjahedin a partisan group that fought the Russian Invasion for years and basically wore them down over the years. In the early stages financed by the USA later by Bin Laden. They are not an elected government in Afghanistan and basically rule by military force.

In Afghanistan there is a civil war going on between the Taliban and other groups (hence the rocket attack on Kabul Tuesday)

What does that mean, it is doubtful that a majority of people support the Taliban let alone Bin Laden. I read an article that most people in Afghanistan have no access to World News so they don't even know about what happened in New York, nor that Bin Laden is currently hiding there.

So what will a major bombing attack do !
It will kill many ordinary people that have no chance to hide nor even know what's happening.

It may kill some of the Taliban regimen probably even weaken their grasp on the country.

It's highly unlikely though that it will kill Bin Laden and his folks as they are used to Partisan War and succesfully evaded the Russian pursuit years ago. btw heavy bombing did not get Saddam nor Ghadaffi !

Do you really think European countries should faithfully support the USA on "quote" Make a Parking Lot out this country !" just to get some kind of counterattack. Do you think this is any better than this horrible act of inhumanity which happened in New York.

Anyway I'm in blabbing mood and that will water down what I wanted to say in the first place.

There is/was no critical remark on my part about Anti Americanism or Pro Americanism
I wanted to say
We Europeans are not sitting back watching, we do what is possible to find a quick solution and I was offended by the lack of trust, faith expressed in that text.

hope that will clear it all up

Hark
34Wammie
      ID: 437541618
      Thu, Sep 13, 17:56
Cab,
I am sure I was a little harsh. I don't mean to offend you. I used to live in Ireland in fact, so I am not just some American who doesn't know what Europe is like.

But what I meant to say is that it is the United States who usually is the leader of action when some thing like this would happen. and if it was London, or Paris, or Amsterdam that the bombing happened, we would be the first to show up, and our military strenght would be there to back up those countries first.

The United States is the super power, and with that comes great responsibility, and we as americans know that. and we know that we are expected to help other in times of need. and we are not looking for a pat on the back when we do it. and when people bad talk the United States, we sit back and take it, because it is our belief that people should have the freedom to say what they want to say. But when you put us in a corner we will come out fighting. ane when we are in a corner, and people start taking cheap shots (Hark) don't expect us to sit back it.
35Wammie
      ID: 437541618
      Thu, Sep 13, 17:57
the last line should be 'sit back and take it'.
36biliruben
      Sustainer
      ID: 3502218
      Thu, Sep 13, 18:09
I guess I missed 'em. What cheap shots were those?
37puckprophet
      ID: 52712723
      Thu, Sep 13, 18:54
hark , i think you're still missing the part that IT WAS WRITTEN IN 1973...you euros are indeed indebted to the US. Face it.
38Wammie
      ID: 437541618
      Thu, Sep 13, 19:47
'if this text stands for anything it shows the narrowsightedness of North American People ! Sorry if that offends anyone here, but this "bullsh1t" offends me even more !'


'well sarge I can say you are a gun slingin...'

i find these to be 2 cheap shots at Americans.
39The_Beast
      ID: 197252915
      Thu, Sep 13, 19:51
Odd occurence here, i just got done writing a essay for my merit english class that was assigned Monday. The scary thing is that the topic is "What is your definition of a Hero?"
40 Ender
      ID: 13443221
      Thu, Sep 13, 21:41
Beast, if you don't mind my asking, I would love to hear your thoughts (as a former student) on what defines a hero.
41Harkonnon
      ID: 50230315
      Fri, Sep 14, 07:08
last time

Wammie

if you carefully read my post 38 you will see that the words "narrowsightedness" and "bullsh!t" are clearly addressed to the accusations Europeans do nothing at all. I also see that some or most of you took that as insult at that time, hence I wrote post 38.

on the gunsli... lines this is a clear response to the personal attack of sarge (and the way he wants this crisis to be handled .. look up sarge posts all over) in the post above and if you take the time to read the top of my post again you will see the top lines of this post clearly imply, Sarge I can now answer your personal attack with another personal attack, but since this will lead to nothing I will try to explain why I as a European are offended by this text or parts of this text and hope you understand

The problem right now that most of you feel a urgent desire that imminent revenge has to be done at all costs and kind of short circuit on anything that sounds or may sound like anti-US in the first place.

Hope this will turn you Wammie into Mammy again and you will hug me again so that we can go and look ahead.


puckprophet
I was aware of the time this text was written even in my first reply... this was even part of the reason for my reply... see the text is not only about 30 years old you will certainly agree with me that the world has changed so much that we can not even compare it anymore... but taking something out of time context and saying this is true to today is just unfair, you bet as a German I encounter "to a degree" similar things on a regular basis only that these facts are 60-70 years old (hope this is not too cryptic, but I refuse to use this certain words)
Things change all the time and Bin Laden is perhaps a perfect example as he was an ally of the USA 15 years ago.

on the indebt-ment (is that a word) to the USA we can discuss anytime but now and preferrably on personal basis if you want, but this and was never a point here since first and almost We and there is no difference between non-US and US people, are committed (indebted) to the concept of Humanity which was attacked here and there was no doubt from the first minute that there will be huge gathering of people from (almost) all Nations to get rid of this cancer that terrorizes all of us. But we all have to make sure that there is no more innocent have to suffer from this now nor in the future. Last night we had an expert round on where military and secret service
people talked about ways to solve this and I was a little bit surprised that the US experts at hand really spoke very calm and expressed that the guilty must be contained as soon as possible, but they also stressed that their main goal is to get infrastructure, information, codes et all of this organization intact since this would be the key to destroy this terror. quote "cutting the head off will not do here, we must get their nerves"

so much peace for All

Hark



42Wammie
      ID: 20039259
      Fri, Sep 14, 08:49
Peace for all ended September 11, 2001. The United States did not bring this on, but we are goign to finish it.
43Myboyjack
      Leader
      ID: 4443038
      Mon, Sep 17, 15:41
Here's an article from ESPN regarding a 6'2", 220 pound, black belt, judo champ, Jeremy Glick, who was on the flight that went down in PA. - As if there was any doubt as to what caused that flight to go down without hitting its mark. Definitely would get my vote for Sportman of the Year.
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