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0 Subject: Feedback for TSN

Posted by: Erik B.
- [239592612] Wed, Apr 03, 2002, 13:08

Thought I'd start a thread for any feedback on the game now that the season's started. Internally, we believe that Ultimate Baseball is our best looking, most challenging and most playable game -- but, hey, we could be deceiving ourselves. Tell us what you like, what you don't like, what should change for future years.

-ESB
GM/TSN
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97¤ Mario LeMoose ¤
      ID: 18355711
      Sun, Apr 07, 2002, 11:55
Daily roster freeze occurs at noon ET.

The Yankees at Red Sox game on Monday, April 15, starts at 11:05 a.m. ET. (Boston's annual Patriots Day game is scheduled for 11:05 a.m. every year.)

Not that anyone would be tempted to cheat, but....
99blade
      ID: 1631712
      Sun, Apr 07, 2002, 12:22
this new pitching price format is absolutely absurd. for a pitcher to go down in price on the day he pitches is asinine. there is no strategy to be learned from this. what are you supposed to do put players on your team who aren't going to play so you can gain money? when that guy actually plays you will lose all you gained. who was drinking the night they thought this one up...geesh.
100Boiler Special
      ID: 1851179
      Sun, Apr 07, 2002, 12:25
I'm stuck with a free-falling Schilling until Tuesday now... 0 trades left and I'm assuming the bleeding won't stop until then. But who knows with the way it's going so far?
101KYCAT
      ID: 41317712
      Sun, Apr 07, 2002, 12:47
I would love to see a site that was more wireless friendly...Or a site where I could atleast access the pricemovers.

On another note...This year I bought 3 baseball teams a day late...and 2 of them were put into the same "random" TSN division. I know that those divisions probably just take the next 20 teams to register...but I ofcourse wanted the chance to win 2 different divisions. And being a day late...I couldn't change divisions. Perhaps something could be done in the future, but ultimately....
Note to self...don't be a day late. ;)
102 JC REB
      Sustainer
      ID: 5212816
      Sun, Apr 07, 2002, 13:05
I gotta question if the 5 day average is really working correctly. Schillings four days averages, before today, were 4/6, +20, 4/5 , 0. 4/4, -10, and 4/3, + 10. It would seem that for the average to turn positive on 4/6, there would have been sufficient buying on 4/6 and 4/5. to overcome the selling that occured on 4/3 and 4/4, that brought the average down from the +110 gain on 4/2. For the average now to be -90 on 4/7, means there had to be heavy selling before todays roster freeze, which doesn't make any sense at all, since he is pitching today. Am I missing something here ?
103loki
      Sustainer
      ID: 12253422
      Sun, Apr 07, 2002, 13:10
jc reb- see my post. perhaps the answer will be there.
104 JC REB
      Sustainer
      ID: 5212816
      Sun, Apr 07, 2002, 14:41
Loki, thanks, have now read that thread, frankly, I still think the 5 day average may not be working as intended. I would like to see TSN reply to this point, with specific data to back up the Schilling -90 price drop.
105Erik B.
      ID: 239592612
      Mon, Apr 08, 2002, 12:10
Gang:

Duly noted on all the points about pitcher pricing. I think you'll see things stabilize now that the first five-day cycle has passed.

RFS: I like the idea of putting TSNPs in our scoreboard, and other places. The problem is that we want to avoid confusing our non-fantasy users. This has been an internal debate that we've had for quite some time, and rest assured, I stand on your side on this one.

-ESB
106KrazyKoalaBears
      Donor
      ID: 266182910
      Mon, Apr 08, 2002, 12:14
Erik B., tell them to provide it as a link at the bottom of the each scoreboard. For instance, right now on the Scoreboard page you have "Box Score | Recap". You could add another line below that saying "TSN Fantasy Games Points" or something to that effect that's clear and doesn't confuse. Further, on the TSNP page, just put a brief description at the top.

I think the internal guys on the other side of the argument just don't want to do all the work. ;)

107Guru
      ID: 462532812
      Mon, Apr 08, 2002, 12:49
Whistleblower[92] - Is there a rule that says only 75 extra trades can be bought? I can't find it. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place?

blade[99] - it would appear that a lot of managers disagree with your assessment. I certainly do.

Boiler[100] - may I suggest a good book?
108KrazyKoalaBears
      Donor
      ID: 266182910
      Mon, Apr 08, 2002, 12:57
Guru, go to the Free Game "Learn to Play" link and do a "Find" for "75". It's the first hit.

"Buying Trades. This year, for your convenience, we're giving you the option to purchase extra trades to be used when you need them. There is a limit of 75 trades that you can buy over the course of the season (which runs until the 2002 All-Star Break)."

109Guru
      ID: 462532812
      Mon, Apr 08, 2002, 13:00
Too easy. I went to the section on buying trades, and there was no mention of a limit.

Silly me.
110Guru
      ID: 462532812
      Mon, Apr 08, 2002, 13:01
...the linked section, that is.
111KrazyKoalaBears
      Donor
      ID: 266182910
      Mon, Apr 08, 2002, 13:01
Guru, I did the same thing multiple times, then said to myself, "Hey dummy, what are you looking for?" That seems to have worked. ;)
112KrazyKoalaBears
      Donor
      ID: 266182910
      Mon, Apr 08, 2002, 22:23
Erik B., are there any plans for TSN to work on the server issues (upgrades?) that cause pages to hang for long amounts of time while loading? I'm on a cable modem and TSN's site is one of the worst sites I visit with regards to experiencing pages that hang while loading.
113Chestergreat
      ID: 58224208
      Mon, Apr 08, 2002, 23:14
RE: 5 Day Pricing. Although some of the expert players at this Forum have figured out the 5 day pricing scheme (maybe), most of TSN's Ultimate baseball managers will still be confused by it throughout the season.

To help the average player, when TSN posts the daily Price changes, could you also show what a players Price change would have been if only the previous 4 days were used in the calculation. Then we could use this as a base change . . .and only have to predict what the next days trading will be to arrive at a projected 5 day Price Change the following day.

This info could be shown on a Players 'Price History' page.
114biliruben
      Sustainer
      ID: 3502218
      Mon, Apr 08, 2002, 23:19
Chester - I think the hope was to deter rotating pitchers with money gains as the primary motivation. They would like for money gains to be based on a more long-term idea that the pitcher will continue to pitch well, and attract buyer interest.

Providing the information you are requesting would be conterproductive to that goal, I think.
115Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Apr 08, 2002, 23:24
Erik - I echo KKB's sentiment in [112]. Lately, the ability of the TSN server to get a page fully out before hanging is rare indeed. I've gotten accustomed to frequently hitting the stop button just to see if enough has loaded to do what I need to do.

This was a problem for awhile last year, but seemed to get better in the fall and winter. However, the last few weeks have been very bad.
116biliruben
      Sustainer
      ID: 3502218
      Mon, Apr 08, 2002, 23:48
They may be trying to just get through hoops and/or ice-boxing without having to buy another server. Then they can just switch 'em over.
117RockChalker
      ID: 410431923
      Tue, Apr 09, 2002, 02:36
Apologies if this idea isnt fresh, and Im not sure about the feasability of this but........

Would it be possible to have a transaction page showing the trades your division mates made from freeze period to freeze period. Im not saying to add on each day and create a huge thing, just a breif Team 1 traded X for Y and X for Y, Team 2 traded....

With the division prize I actually have some interest in the division this year and just think it would be a nice addition.
118azdbacker
      Donor
      ID: 1832261
      Tue, Apr 09, 2002, 03:01
Erik, I absolutely love this season's game, especially the new pitcher price changes. I think this will add an element of skill that has previously been lacking in this game, namely picking pitchers who are underpriced and having long-term gameplans as opposed to mindlessly RanDro-ing or Randling. Props to you guys for taking the necessary steps to ensure that those who are most adept at finding the underpriced pitcher have some success.

My only negative would be the fact that I, as a resident of Arizona, cannot win a prize. Looking at my division, I see just 2 other teams that have a chance to compete with me, as I'm sure is the case with many Gurupies in random leagues. I don't mind not being able to receive the money, I understand that is a legal decision. However, I think any winner that can't receive a prize should be granted that money for use in future TSN games. The opportunity to win my division and receive 3 free teams next year would be reward enough. I don't see any reason why you can't do this.

Again, props on the game and on your willingness to be held accountable for the quality of it. I hope it continues.
119Erik B.
      ID: 239592612
      Tue, Apr 09, 2002, 14:24

# 117 RockChalker: Awesome, awesome idea. So cool. We'll do this for football.

AzBacker: Sorry! (Really.) We tried to get around this a dozen time. It's our legal policy, and we can't change it.

Server guys: I'm suspecting this is a brower-interface issue. Our server load isn't bad. I've had pages hang on occasion, but it doesn't relate to bandwidth. Definitely need to look into this for football.

-ESB
120kentucky indians
      ID: 361143910
      Thu, Apr 11, 2002, 18:50
Guys at TSN....
I want to echo Azdbacker's compliments. I was looking around at all the new information links you have at the site. It is well worth the $19.95 for the full-season of fun I have. Besides, winning the division and I will end up playing free!!!!! Excellent work.
121CanEHdian Pride
      Donor
      ID: 426351415
      Mon, Apr 15, 2002, 23:33
Just wondering if you could replace "division rank" with "Franchise Value". It is annoying to have to always add RV and residual cash when trying to find out how much money you, or your opponents, have.
122Puckprophet
      ID: 43161213
      Mon, Apr 15, 2002, 23:47
Word C P, ...
123Puckprophet
      ID: 43161213
      Tue, Apr 16, 2002, 00:38
why don't ya put the price history on the players page??? click click,click..click
124Erik B.
      ID: 239592612
      Tue, Apr 16, 2002, 11:52
CP:

Love the idea. We'll add it soon for the math impaired.

-ESB
125CanEHdian Pride
      Donor
      ID: 426351415
      Tue, Apr 16, 2002, 12:31
Thanks Erik...it'd be much obliged on account of I never been to good at figurin'
126JeffG
      Sustainer
      ID: 40451227
      Thu, Apr 25, 2002, 13:24
Erik -

I think the trade-a-player methodology should be improved. Some people can get caught with inactive rosters if there is down time between the sell and the buy. It should be treated as one transaction with one timestamp.

Instead of selling a player, then buying one, the user should initiate this by selecting a player to buy. If it is a position player where we only own one slot, the system should infer who we want to sell and give a confirmation screen or button. If it is an outfielder or pitcher, the system should ask to select one of the relevant players to sell, then ask to confirm.

However, if you still want to give people the option to sell, and not buy, as some do during the all star break, then you can have that optioned programmed in the above methodology.
127Eustacio
      ID: 420291519
      Thu, Apr 25, 2002, 13:38
Ditto Jeff's idea. It makes more sense and all those issues of invalid rosters go away.
128Erik B.
      ID: 239592612
      Thu, Apr 25, 2002, 13:40
Guys:

We're in discussion on such a system for football.

-ESB
129Ender
      ID: 52438315
      Thu, Apr 25, 2002, 14:08
There are times in some games where a manager might want to have an open slot with the market nature of the game. This happens in hoops at Christmas and at ASB time in hoops and baseball (hockey?). You should leave the option to buy no one open. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do what JeffG is proposing, simply keep it possiblt to buy no one.
130j o s h
      ID: 303162513
      Thu, Apr 25, 2002, 15:08
It's raining in Philly, anyone know what the outlook is?
131KrazyKoalaBears
      Donor
      ID: 266182910
      Thu, Apr 25, 2002, 19:38
Erik B, anyway you can check into that server issue again? Things have been quite horrible lately when trying to access the TSN site. I just sold a player and the "sold" page hadn't come up yet. I managed to do the dishes (seriously!), respond to another post, do some player research, and a few other things and the page still hadn't loaded yet. I find that I usually have to refresh any page I visit approximately 3-5 times before it finally fully loads. As a matter of fact, I just had to do that very thing to get the "name_search.html" page to come up. I'm not just having this problem with the baseball pages either. I also have this problem with the main account page, so it appears to be a problem with the fantasygames.sportingnews.com site. Further, I don't have this problem with the regular TSN site, so again, it appears to be a problem with the game site (servers?).

This is extremely frustrating and to be honest I expect a bit more from TSN. You all have done a great job responding to a lot of the feedback everyone has given, but this issue seems to have fallen by the wayside in spite of the large problem that this appears to be. I assure you that this is not a browser issue since I have tried on various different browsers, including the absolute most up-to-date versions of IE and Netscape, with the same results. I don't have this problem with any other site I visit so that further eliminates my browser/computer/connection from the equation.

I really think this issue needs to be addressed before football season begins. 4 more months of this is a bit much for TSN to ask us to endure, IMO.

132ChicagoTRS
      Sustainer
      ID: 58735170
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 20:33
Erik, Suggestion for improvement...in the Ultimate game it would be nice to see more info on the your division page.

Additional statistics: Hitter/pitcher trades remaining. Franchise value or Roster value & Cash left. World Rank. Maybe the daily franchise value change. Would allow you to compare some important stats to the teams you are competing against in your division.

I think a feature like this could really add to the useability of the game. Should be simple enough to do. It is currently a pain in the ass having to look up each team individually in the division to find out the "health" of the franchise.

Maybe another way to distinguish the Ultimate game from the Basic game. Actually would be useful in all of your Ultimate games.
133Gangman
      Leader
      ID: 58238278
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 20:54
I second what Chi TRS says.

Great suggestion.
134APerfect10
      ID: 3257215
      Sun, Apr 28, 2002, 02:33
I'm curious as to why you cant view other managers financial history...
135Heather
      ID: 363291619
      Sun, Apr 28, 2002, 07:42
I agree with the previous three posts. Also in the free game, it would be nice to see how many trades a team has used.
136ChicagoTRS
      Sustainer
      ID: 10350110
      Thu, May 02, 2002, 11:39
BUTT

Erik..you there? any comment on #132
137Farn
      ID: 2310151714
      Thu, May 02, 2002, 11:42
i would love see #135 implemented. At least then I know exactly what kind of an uphill battle I am fighting against trade buyers.
138walk
      Leader
      ID: 24318228
      Thu, May 02, 2002, 12:04
IIRC, most of this information Chicago TRS, is available if you click on the individual team within your division. I guess your additional columns in that table would make things more streamlined (and there seems to be space to do so).

Of course, we also used to be able to see more stuff like pre-freeze rosters and trade history. I think it was wise to remove that information. I don't we want the game skewed so that a given manager's moves are motivated to block an opponent's progress (but that is philosophically debatable, I guess) as opposed to maximizing points and/or financial gains compared to the whole 12,000 league.

Food for thought

- walk
139ChicagoTRS
      Sustainer
      ID: 10350110
      Thu, May 02, 2002, 12:20
Walk...agreed that all of the info I am requesting is available by looking at each team individually.


My quote from #132 "It is currently a pain in the ass having to look up each team individually in the division to find out the "health" of the franchise." and then have to document the stats from each team to compare etc...I realize I could make an excel macro to automatically gather the info etc...so I can compare on my own without to much difficulty but I am thinking about the general public playing this game and just the general useability I think it makes a lot of sense to display this info in the standings table in the game itself.

TSN should take advantage of the fact that generally people playing fantasy games are a little bit of statistics freaks anyway and a good way to enhance the playing experience for us players would be to provide us easier access to already available info.

I have some other suggestions on stats that TSN could provide that would make this game more interesting but I think I will hold off on those for awhile because I would like them to consider the above first.

If you are not actively trying to make your product better you are making a mistake. I do give TSN credit that they have made some nice improvements in the last year.

I do systems engineering for a living so I can't help but look at something and try to find ways to improve it ;-)

TSN...if you ever need a systems engineer for your games...with the way the economy is going I may be looking for a job in the next year or so =)
140TSN TechOps
      ID: 89433110
      Mon, May 06, 2002, 13:44
KrazyKoalaBears (112,131),

Could you send us an email (tsntechops@sportingnews.com). Giving the time you're most frequently encountering the 'page hang' problem?

Thanks,

TSN TechOps
141Erik B.
      ID: 239592612
      Mon, May 06, 2002, 13:53
Chicago TRS:

I really like your idea. I'll bring it up with a game producer today.

-ESB
142Great One
      ID: 92142016
      Mon, May 06, 2002, 14:04
I would like to see divisional rankings on which team in the division has the most HRs or SBs or Wins or Saves to see how certain teams are doing what they do.

A few years back Smallworld had something like that.
143MyDodgers
      ID: 32161623
      Mon, May 06, 2002, 17:47
I would like to suggest, once again, that there be a way to edit the Fantasy Games page so I do not have to scroll down to choose the team I want to visit. I would like to get rid of the Nascar area the Soccer, Golf and anything that is off-season. It would make for a much quicker entry to the game itself. Thanks

myd
144Rogue's Strikers
      ID: 642613
      Tue, May 07, 2002, 14:14
OT (Didn't want to start a thread for this) - Erik, I was reading up on your official rules and noticed a mention of play-by-mail players. Do you really have people making trades by mail? (Or phone?) And if so, are any of them competetive?

145Erik B.
      ID: 239592612
      Tue, May 07, 2002, 14:19
Very, very few people play-by-mail.

-ESB
146John Budge
      Donor
      ID: 29141112
      Tue, May 07, 2002, 16:52
Yeah, all that scrolling is really a pain in the ass. I lose two seconds every day scrolling down the page to find my teams. Can you imagine what I would do each day with those extra two seconds? hahahaha
147APerfect10
      Leader
      ID: 39143521
      Wed, May 22, 2002, 12:12
Erik B, why does it take 15 minutes for the pricemovers page to update. The price changes are obviously calculated since they are available for viewing on your Financial Report page.

Could you incrase the priority of the price movers page and decrease the priority of the other pages to update? Thanks...
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