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Subject: LA Dodgers Discussion
Posted by: Ref
- [28045169] Fri, Apr 26, 2002, 11:24
I know it's very late to start the normal thread about the boys in blue, but hey I've been busy.
KB threw off the mound yesterday 61 times and felt no pain. He's currently on the 15 day DL.
link
This could mean a shift back to the pen for Daal.
Green is mired in a hellacious slump. BUt I considered picking him up today heading into Wrigley. When things start going right for him, he goes nuts. I didn't like him facing Kerry Wood today though--esp since he's "trying too hard" lately... Green info. |
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| 51 | biliruben
Sustainer
ID: 231045110
Thu, May 09, 2002, 12:46
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We have one above average bat in the infield, one above average bat behind the plate and one all-star bat in the outfield. Every other bat is league average or worse for a given position, imho.
We are near the bottom of the league in walks, despite Roberts' turn around. This rules out little ball.
There are lots of quality bats out there, and I think we need to seriously chase one or two, as long as we don't give up too much, for us to contend.
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| 52 | Razor
Donor
ID: 305102622
Sun, May 12, 2002, 02:47
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What is up with our offense? We have 2 guys on the team who are on pace to break 10 HR's this year. Where's the power gone? We have 4 guys who should go for 20-30 HR (Beltre, Lo Duca, Jordan, Karros) and one guy that should hit at least 30 in Green. 21 HR's in 36 games is terrible. Let's bat Dreifort cleanup.
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| 53 | Ref
ID: 121135289
Sun, May 12, 2002, 11:48
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Razor, I remember a team that used to bat the pitcher no lower than 8th when he pitched in the 70s. Can't remember exactly who it was though. Carlton comes to mind, but I'm pretty sure he batted 9th. When Dreifort pitched I used to wish he batted ahead of Cora. That guy can hit!
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| 54 | Razor
Donor
ID: 305102622
Sun, May 12, 2002, 13:06
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The Real Jim Tracy is looking to ride the hot hand today. Grudzielanek batting 5th, in front of Jordan and Beltre.
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| 55 | Ref
ID: 121135289
Sun, May 12, 2002, 13:52
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Interesting. I like Tracy and that's a move I'd likely make. I'm liking him more and more. Also a motivator for other team members.
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| 56 | biliruben
Sustainer
ID: 59434124
Sun, May 12, 2002, 14:45
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Hmmm... I don't agree. First, Grudz sucks. Second, I doubt if Grudz or anyone else would need motivation to hit a 3-run double. That's the kind of stuff they dream about.
What we need is motivation to take a walk and play as a team. If you motivate a player to do selfless acts where the glory will likely be given to a teammate not you, then you make the team better. We are not getting that. Without the dingers, we need it now more than ever.
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| 57 | Ref
ID: 28045169
Tue, May 14, 2002, 12:46
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We needed that win last night in the worst way. Odalis is still specatcular.
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| 58 | John Budge
Donor
ID: 29141112
Tue, May 14, 2002, 12:55
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Don't the Dodgers have a right-handed setup man who can get some outs?? They should have brought Quantrill in to start the eighth to face Alfonzo who had already doubled off Odalis. Just my $0.02.
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| 59 | Ref
ID: 28045169
Wed, May 15, 2002, 11:30
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Don't the Dodgers have someone that can score at least one run on most occassions? Last night was their 7th time they've been shutout this year and made former teammate Pedro look like that other former teammate named Pedro. They've got to put people on base to be able to score consistantly.
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| 60 | biliruben
Sustainer
ID: 3502218
Wed, May 15, 2002, 11:47
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I agree, ref. If you have no power and nobody gets on base, what does that leave you?
Of course, if you can't hit, and the other team knows you can't hit, it is pretty hard to draw a walk. Witness the last 3 outs last night.
Sending "we miss you" postcard to sheff.
If we don't make a serious run at Higgy or Floyd or anyone who can swing a bat better than my Momma's kitten's stuffed toy, we are basically conceding.
Think Chen is ready for the big-leagues?
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| 61 | Razor
Donor
ID: 51051231
Wed, May 15, 2002, 15:28
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I wouldn't say we have no power and nobody gets on base. I'd say we're a team who hasn't shown its full potential, offensively. Green, Beltre and Karros are all slugging under .400. If Green hits .245 with 12 HR's this season, we're in a lot of trouble but I don't expect that he will. I expect the offense will be in the middle of the pack by year's end. Right now, we're only ahead of a miserable Pittsburgh offense.
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| 62 | Ref
ID: 28045169
Wed, May 15, 2002, 16:58
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But thank God the pitching leads the Majors in more than one category.
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| 63 | biliruben
Sustainer
ID: 3502218
Wed, May 15, 2002, 18:18
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Razor - I think part of the reason the few good hitters we have aren't hitting for power is because we have chumps in the other 5 or 6 slots in the lineup, not in spite of it.
Tell me, if you are an opposing manager, and you see bochachica, roberts, izturis, grissom, cora, grudz, jordan, or karros in the lineup, are you going to give Green, Loduca or Beltre anything to hit? I certainly wouldn't. So they are stuck slapping at pitches on the borders of the strike zone for singles or getting walked. Then the chump behind them hits into a double play (LA leads the league with 49). Maybe we should steal more?
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| 64 | gibby88@WORK
ID: 588371414
Wed, May 15, 2002, 18:29
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Any local LA News/ fans know any reports on how Brown is feeling? Contemplating him this week....
Faces MON which I am willing to roll the dice on....
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| 65 | Razor
Donor
ID: 51051231
Wed, May 15, 2002, 19:19
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Karros was only truly a bad player for one season. Looks like he's returned to respectability, but the power is still lacking. Same with Beltre.
Jordan is an ok hitter. He and Roberts are the only two guys that are on pace to do what they are supposed to be doing. Itzuris has stolen one base while being caught 5 times. Green has been terrible. Beltre, Karros and Lo Duca have hit for no power. Grudzielanek, while not the greatest player, is not a bad 8 hole hitter and not a .230 hitter. We had a two man lineup last year. This year, we have a much more balanced lineup. I expect the offense to be solid. Is Sheffield really able to make that much of a difference on offense? Considering Atlanta is 12th in offense, I don't think so.
HR's per game
This year - 0.564
Last year - 1.264
That is a gigantic difference. Sheffield is probably good for 20 HR's more than Brian Jordan. Ok, so that explains 0.123 of the 0.7 HR/G difference. Where's the rest? I think we're good for about a HR per game, a huge dip from last year but a huge boost from where we are at now. Green and Lo duca won't combine for 75 again but considering Beltre and Karros combined for a measly 28 last year, I think it'll balance out. Beltre and Karros are at worst, a 40 HR duo.
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| 66 | biliruben
Sustainer
ID: 3502218
Wed, May 15, 2002, 19:52
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As I tried to explain above, Razor, I think that an great individual hitter can, particularly in an already weak lineup, make the rest of the bats around him better. Maybe not .7 HRs/g better, but more than his direct 20-30 HRs.
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| 67 | PCMatt38
Leader
ID: 5913077
Thu, May 16, 2002, 09:11
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Wow. Dodger fans are talking about a tepid offense and a terrific pitching staff....as they have every decade since they moved into that park.
Dodgers Home R/G: 2.79
Dodgers Road R/G: 4.05
Dodgers Home ERA: Actually I don't know what their home and road splits are. Can anyone provide me with a spot where I can get this info?
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| 68 | Ref
ID: 28045169
Thu, May 16, 2002, 10:52
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Another Shutout.
And whats with Green letting strike 3 go right by him on a fast ball down the middle. No one on, down two--nothing to lose--what did he expect, a curve ball down and in? a slider away? Somehow they managed to scrounge up 2 hits again. I'm surprised they haven't been no-hit yet.
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| 69 | Razor
Donor
ID: 51051231
Thu, May 16, 2002, 14:59
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PCMatt - this offense is surprisingly bad - worse than usual and worse than expected. The pitching staff is surprisingly good - better than expected and better than usual. The Dodgers are pitching slightly better on the road so far (2.92 v 3.15). It's not fair to say that this staff is the result of Dodger stadium - they've been very good everywhere.
Ok, I'm ready to agree with biliruben, kind of. I still think the offense is better than they are showing. 8 shutouts in 40 games is unbelievable. However, it'd take more than one Cliff Floyd to make THIS offense respectable. So let's wait and see when (if?) the real Dodger offense shows up, what we can do. I'll tell you this much, the Dodgers are in a fantastic position to trade at the deadline. They have 6 quality major leaguer starters. Want to hear the bonus? So next season, barring injury, we know Brown, Ashby, Ishii and Odalis will be there, but who else? Dreifort won't be moved, so he's likely there, leaving Nomo and Daal high and dry. Daal is in the last year of his contract but Nomo has another year and an option year I believe. LA could dump salary, get a bat, and literally not lose anything in the starting staff. Who could use another starter at the break and has a little cash? Cincinnati? Mets? Yankees? Red Sox? White Sox? Maybe Texas if they can hang around? Put all those teams together with trading a solid starting pitcher and a throw-in, Evans should surely be able to get a bat. I just haven't figured out where yet... Completely objectively, it'd have to been RF today. That, of course, would be ridiculous. Any move outside of 1B would likely hurt our defense, which has been great.
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| 70 | Ref
ID: 28045169
Thu, May 16, 2002, 15:06
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Remember, Uncle Cliffy plays 1B too!
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| 71 | Razor
Donor
ID: 51051231
Thu, May 16, 2002, 17:23
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Florida, if they can hang around, could use a veteran on a very young staff (Beckett, Penny, Burnett, Dempster). They are lacking in the 5th starter department and could use a lefty to mix things up. The question is, how much more do we have to offer after our starting pitchers? Basically nothing, if you want to call Chen, Gagne, Thurston and Diggins off-limits.
I'd give up Nomo, Daal, Chen and our triple A affiliate to get Dunn or Kearns. That's probably what it would take too. None of the Big 3 in Cincy are going to get traded (Griffey, Dunn, Kearns) which leaves nothing but scraps. Mateo and Encarnacion are not significant upgrades, if at all.
The White Sox have pitching problems and a good offense. Think they could spare some? Guess who would be the prime candidate? You guessed it, ex-Dodger Paul Konerko. At age 26, he's really starting to develop offensively. Also, he's arbitration-eligible after the season, making him potentially expensive for the ChiSox. Could become available.
Yankees and Red Sox, great candidates for trades due to payroll, don't have pitching problems, as of yet. Same with Houston.
Cleveland could use a veteran starter for the stretch run. Do they have offensive players we could use? Yes. Are they a good fit? Not really.
St. Louis has plenty of pitchers, but they are all injured. Should the injuries persist, St. Louis could be in the market for a pitcher. There are only a couple of bats that make sense there, and St. Louis would not want to trade either of them (Drew, Vina).
Texas would be candidate numero uno if they can stay close in the division or wild card race. They are desperate for pitching and are loaded on offense. They have a win-soon attitude with a large payroll. They have a bevy of players who could be traded including Everett, The Big Cat Frank Catalanotto, Kapler, Lamb, Greer, and maybe even Pudge. If anything happens, my bet is that it will be with Texas.
What can we expect to get? We have two solid pitchers to trade, both with medium level salaries. We need a big upgrade somewhere or a couple of smaller ones. If I were Evans, I'd go for the one big gun like Floyd and try to keep the clubhouse changes to a minimum. I'd stay away from benching Jordan, his impact on and off the field is bigger than his number indicate and I wouldn't trade for a CF unless Roberts tanks it between now and then. Izturis isn't much of a hitter up the middle but how many teams have 8 quality hitters? Not many. He's young so he can stay. That pretty much leaves 1B and 2B, unless Evans can move a position player to open up a spot. That would be next to impossible as Green, Lo Duca, and Beltre aren't going anywhere and Jordan, Grudz, and Karros are too expensive to move. Izturis could be worth something as trade bait, how many major upgrades are there at SS? Virtually none that would be available.
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| 72 | PCMatt38
Leader
ID: 5913077
Thu, May 16, 2002, 18:41
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Razor:
Points taken. First: Where did you get the home and road splits for the pitching staff (or did you take the time to figure them yourself)?
Second: Regardless of the fact that they are pitching well on the road, they do indeed play in a park that helps their pitchers and hurts their offense. (Using three years of data from 1999 to 2001, Dodger Stadium cuts run production by 14%)It isn't necessarily unfair to point this out. As long as they are going to be playing in Chavez Ravine the offense will be perceived as weaker than it actually is and the pitching staff will be perceived as better than it actually is.
Having said that, the Dodgers do indeed have a poor offense. They are tenth in the NL in R/G on the road. The road ERA is also probably first or second thus rendering my entire contribution irrelevant...Time to take my slide rule and go home.
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| 73 | biliruben
Sustainer
ID: 3502218
Thu, May 16, 2002, 18:46
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Nice analysis, Razor.
I agree with you about Texas. As I said in #45, I think we could probably get Kapler for next to nothing. He would probably like to join green, given that I seem to remember he copied him in support of sitting down for... was it Roshoshana(sp?)? Also, he's from LA.
If we can also get a good bat to replace Karros (Floyd, Konerko), that would significant upgrade and turn out lineup from a blackhole with a couple of small stars, to a legit threat with a couple of holes.
We can hope that we will see Thursten to suplant grudz and turn him into a good utitily guy and Chen to bolster the outfield within the next year, or sooner.
Kapler
Grudz/Thursten
Green
Floyd/Konerko
Loduca
Chen/Jordan
Beltre
Izturis
Pitcher
If we had that lineup and our pitching staff, we could not be stopped in the West, and quite possibly in all the NL. It would cost us a few prospects and a fair amount of cash, but we would have a winner.
Why spend $100mil to lose when you have all that talent in the pitching staff going to waste. Spend a $120 mil and be the team to beat.
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| 74 | Razor
Donor
ID: 305102622
Thu, May 16, 2002, 19:49
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Ya, Kapler could be had for a pitching prospect I bet. However, the way Roberts has played thus far, I'm not sure how much of an upgrade that would be. All I've ever wanted was a leadoff guy who could get on more than 35% of the time and Roberts is doing that (.378 OBP). He's got wheels and plays solid D. Fits in the lineup better than that Kapler. If Kapler could show a little better power, he might be worth having. This year, he hasn't shown any. People don't usually improve their power numbers going from the Ballpark to Chavez either.
I wasn't joking when I said I'd give up the Triple A affiliate for Dunn. He's got 50 HR power, 100 walk potential and is still 22. What a dream that would be. Floyd is 30 and still developing but by next year, I expect Dunn to be the better player. Floyd is no slouch though. I stopped watching the Dodger game last night. The offense is absolutely disgusting. They've topped 3 runs once in the last 15 games. If it weren't for the staff, they'd be 0-15 in those games instead of 6-9.
On the flipside, I really like what Evans has done with the staff. We have a lot of different looks from a lot of quality pitchers. Ishii all by himself gives you 10 different looks. Wild at times but effective. The bullpen has some quality depth, too, outside of Mulholland. After a rocky start, Quantrill is looking better. Orosco has been reliable. Carrara has been really solid. Gagne has been stellar. Daal has been dominant. Mota is up after Orosco went on the DL. I like that kid. He has struck out 21 in 24 innings in AAA. Only 4 walks. 2.91 ERA. I didn't realize Thurston was having such a good season in AAA (.420 OBP, .578 SLG). We should bring him up soon. Let's see, if Thurston can be up by next season and we can trade for and keep Floyd, we would be some kind of team - young and good. Beltre is 23. Izzy is 22. Thurston is 22. Green is 29. Lo Duca is 30. Floyd is 30. Roberts is 29. Jordan is 35 and would be there for leadership.
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| 75 | Razor
Donor
ID: 305102622
Fri, May 17, 2002, 01:50
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4 runs today. Late game comeback. Looks like a breakthrough. I bet we'll take 5 of our next 8.
Strange stat of the day: since his disgusting opening day start, which he probably shouldn't have made, Brown has a 1.89 ERA. He's been very un-Brownlike with his shaky control and proneness to the gopher ball but it doesn't seem to be limiting his effectiveness. I watch Brown closer than anybody and he's made mistakes and done things that he never does and somehow I got the feeling that he was having a crummy season so far. Not at all, really. He's only going to get stronger and better. Unfortunately, he's going to miss the upcoming Arizona series. Looks like they'll draw Nomo, Perez and Ashby. Our best and our two worst. Of course, on this staff, our two worst isn't so bad.
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| 76 | James K Polk
ID: 4455731
Fri, May 17, 2002, 14:31
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hey, anyone in here know for sure whether Odalis is on a 5-game or a 5-day rotation? Makes a difference after the MON start -- either next 2 vs. ARI or next 2 vs. MIL.
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| 77 | Razor
Donor
ID: 305102622
Fri, May 17, 2002, 16:46
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5 game. Haven't seen anybody skipped all year. No reason to when you have 5 quality starters and the best spot starter in the majors (Daal). At his age, no reason to rush to get him starts either when you've got guys like Brown, Nomo, Ashby and Ishii on the staff.
In other news, Jordan might head to the DL with a lower back strain. Uh oh, might we get our first look at Chen?
Also, Green is not worried about his slow start. Said the numbers will be there when his swing is right.
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| 78 | smallwhirled
Donor
ID: 17152614
Fri, May 17, 2002, 16:53
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I am now in a position to hold Brownie for a little while, so hopefully the luck will be passed along. If he's anywhere near the old KB, then I'll be pretty happy as I'm going with the studs.
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| 79 | Ref
ID: 28045169
Mon, May 20, 2002, 12:49
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Holy Offense Batman! Where has that been?
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| 80 | Razor
Donor
ID: 305102622
Thu, May 23, 2002, 01:55
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2nd page? Come on guys..
Anyway, another solid pitching performance today. Daal and Gagne continue to be two of the best in the game out of the bullpen. We are leading the majors in both shutouts (6) and getting shutout (8). I expect this trend to continue. Green has extra base hits in 3 straight games now. If his bat gets going, I expect the rest of our offense will come around. Beltre and Lo Duca are still hitting for little power.
Two series with Arizona coming up. Perez v. Schilling in the first game. I'm excited to see what the kid is made of on a big start on the road against Schilling. Ashby v. Anderson in Game 2. And the old classic Brown v. Johnson in Game 3. Should be a fantastic series. If our offense shows up, we could gain some ground.
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| 81 | azdbacker
Donor
ID: 1832261
Thu, May 23, 2002, 01:59
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Face it, Razor. The Dodgers are officially irrelevant.
;) - sort of
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| 82 | Ref
ID: 28045169
Thu, May 23, 2002, 11:13
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It's a shame that we are required to shut a team out in order to win--but that's what it took.
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| 83 | Ref
ID: 28045169
Thu, May 23, 2002, 13:54
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LA is absolutely KILLING Glendon and it's still in the 2nd inning! TOo bad they can't spread their offense around to get some every game. Also it's a good thing I started Rusch in my Yahoo league!
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| 84 | Razor
Donor
ID: 305102622
Thu, May 23, 2002, 14:41
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I think Green took his benching to heart. 4 straight games with an extra base hit for him. 2 multihomer games in the 4 game stretch. Now this is the Shawn Green we need to win.
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| 85 | Razor
Donor
ID: 305102622
Thu, May 23, 2002, 14:43
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Grissom with 2, count em, 2 walks today. Get out of here.
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| 86 | biliruben
Sustainer
ID: 3502218
Thu, May 23, 2002, 15:00
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Though I am sure Nomo is helping Ishii relax and adjust, did you really need to show him how to walk a handful of dudes every outing?
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| 87 | Razor
Donor
ID: 305102622
Thu, May 23, 2002, 16:02
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Shawn Green had a good game today. In fact, he had a respectable season. He raised his average 22 points and his slugging 80 points to .260 and .473, respectable levels. I love it.
Lost in the Shawn Green story is Brian Jordan. Quietly putting up his usual solid numbers. Oh and Sheffield is hurt. Ha. We so got the better end of that deal.
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| 88 | Razor
Donor
ID: 305102622
Thu, May 23, 2002, 16:10
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I apologize to all Dodger fans for posting before the Show was over.
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| 89 | Ref
ID: 28045169
Thu, May 23, 2002, 16:11
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Green 6-6 4 homers a single and a double with 7 RBI!!!!
LA 16 runs and still batting in the 9th!
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| 90 | Razor
Donor
ID: 305102622
Thu, May 23, 2002, 17:49
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More on Green's historic game: ESPN article
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| 91 | Eat Acid
Donor
ID: 5610321618
Thu, May 23, 2002, 19:33
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Standard deviation from the mean...........we'll see dem bums that Astacio and D'Amico had fun with last week real soon.
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| 92 | Razor
Donor
ID: 305102622
Fri, May 24, 2002, 01:53
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Going from Grace to Durazo is about a big a move as losing Bautista and starting McCracken.
I'm very excited for this series. With our big 2 throwing against their big 2 and a sizeable advantage in the other game, I think we have a real chance to win this series.
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| 93 | azdbacker
Donor
ID: 1832261
Fri, May 24, 2002, 02:08
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A sizeable advantage in the other? Helling has allowed 2 runs in 4 of his last 5 starts. This isn't Dodger Stadium he's pitching in either. 2 runs don't win games in BOB very often, unless Johnson or Schilling are on the mound.
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| 94 | Eat Acid
Donor
ID: 5610321618
Fri, May 24, 2002, 06:32
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Are you guys scared of an impending Ishii implosion? He is still helping me quite a bit in my yahoo points league, but the whip is scary.
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| 95 | Ref
ID: 28045169
Fri, May 24, 2002, 15:55
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Ishii has found a way to get it done all year.
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| 96 | Razor
Donor
ID: 305102622
Fri, May 24, 2002, 17:07
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He's only gone 7 innings twice. Ashby has a 3.21 ERA. Helling has a 5.84 ERA. If it were reasonably close in ERA, I might give some consideration to recent performance but it's not. Anyway, I'm most looking forward to Brown and Unit. I'm sure Brown will bring his A game.
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| 97 | azdbacker
Donor
ID: 1832261
Sat, May 25, 2002, 03:29
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At least the Dodgers' first half of the "Big 2" didn't disappoint. LOL. You've got a long way to go before you can mention Odalis in the same sentence as Schilling.
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| 98 | Ref
ID: 121135289
Sat, May 25, 2002, 12:27
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go ahead and gloat azd. this series just started. how's gonzo been doing? where would you be w/o schil and rj this year? We will be ok--just need to be more consistant.
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| 99 | azdbacker
Donor
ID: 1832261
Sat, May 25, 2002, 12:42
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C'mon, Ref. If you guys didn't post things like, "With our big 2 throwing against their big 2 and a sizeable advantage in the other game, I think we have a real chance to win this series," I wouldn't feel such a need to gloat.
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| 100 | azdbacker
Donor
ID: 1832261
Sat, May 25, 2002, 12:44
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Not to mention questions like "Where would you be without RJ and Schilling?" Where would anyone be without the two best players on their team? Have you noticed that the DBacks lead the NL in almost every batting category?
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