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0 Subject: Arizona Diamondbacks Discussion Thread

Posted by: azdbacker
- Donor [1832261] Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 01:01

I know there aren't nearly as many DBack fans on the board as there are Dodger or Yankee fans, but I thought the Defending World Champions deserved a thread as well. I'll see if I can hold up my end of the bargain...
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33azdbacker
      Donor
      ID: 1832261
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 02:07
Wow, they really do suck.

;)

I think I owe Guru a donation for this thread.
34azdbacker
      Donor
      ID: 1832261
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 02:11
Who's Martha? You see what happens, azd. You get a good discussion going and closet Dodger fans come in and start adding nonsensical statements. At least I have you to talk to. It's good to have a voice of reason around here.

Like that cancermoon guy. Can you believe he thinks he can dethrone "azdbacker's defending champions"? Now there's a nutcase.

;)
35azdbacker
      Donor
      ID: 1832261
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 02:18
Holy crap, dbacker! I just looked at your team and it's up to WWR 12! You've never been in the top 50 until tonight in any TSN game, as far as I know. Did you know that 12 out of 11,787 is the top one-tenth of one percent in the World? Good job AZ!
36Dan
      Sustainer
      ID: 0229323
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 02:19
I just hope you can remember the 12 WWR come tomorrow! :-P
37azdbacker
      Donor
      ID: 1832261
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 02:21
Party pooper. I knew Dan was a Dodger fan.
38Dan
      Sustainer
      ID: 0229323
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 02:22
I didn't even know I was a baseball fan!!!
39Tim G
      Donor
      ID: 59126280
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 02:24
I'm not a dodger fan, I live in LA and get to watch them regularly, (Vin Scully is the bomb) but I don't like them at all. I don't even have a favorite team! Well I tried the Angels but , you know. All I have is this fantasy stuff.
40Dan
      Sustainer
      ID: 0229323
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 02:26
Dan admit it you like baseball!!

Fine I admit it, I'm a Jays fan, there you have it! We will be champs once again, so watch out! :-P
41azdbacker
      Donor
      ID: 1832261
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 02:31
Just kidding guys, I respect your opinions enough to know that neither of you could be Dodger fans.

And you Dodger fans that post in that thread know me enough to know that this whole thing is just in jest, for the most part.

;)
42azdbacker
      Donor
      ID: 1832261
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 02:33
Good to see this is rubbing off on Dan.

Hey dbacker, you mentioned Spivey's 7-7 against Maddux yesterday. Your stuff is starting to get old. You need some new stats before you can hang with me as a Diamondbacks fan.
43azdbacker
      Donor
      ID: 1832261
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 02:34
Don't start with me, azd. I know you're WWR 12 right now and all, but it's a long season. You barely have more trades than cancermoon does...
44azdbacker
      Donor
      ID: 1832261
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 02:37
Damn, dbacker, how did it get so late? I've got to get to bed. I look forward to continuing this discussion tomorrow. It is rare to meet a fan as knowledgeable as you. We need to get together and go to a game some time.
45azdbacker
      Donor
      ID: 1832261
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 02:40
I don't think so. My wife doesn't like the idea of meeting people from the internet. She only lets me go out with rockafellerskank. And that's just because they're both from Pitt.
46smallwhirled
      Donor
      ID: 29232811
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 02:45
I drank 20 beers

I can't read gh post!
47azdbacker
      Donor
      ID: 1832261
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 02:47
Can't wait to see Schilling vs Beckett on Sunday. I'm not sure if I'm going to pick up Schilling for that one or not. Could be a tough game.
48smallwhirled
      Donor
      ID: 29232811
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 02:48
ggrrr

Gibbons


why sell?


grrrrr. I ;ike him!

grrr
49azdbacker
      Donor
      ID: 1832261
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 02:50
Sounds like smallwhirled is messed up tonight. tsk, tsk. Take your drunkenness elsewhere, it's not welcome in my thread. Or azdbacker's either. We're all about sobriety.
50azdbacker
      Donor
      ID: 1832261
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 02:52
Can we get a moderator? AZD and I are having a serious conversation, and this smallwhirled guy comes in and makes a mockery of the whole thing.

;)
51azdbacker
      Donor
      ID: 1832261
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 02:54
Hey DBACKER, I see there's a Pirates thread started. Why don't you direct your wife and rockafellerskank over there?
52cancermoon
      ID: 53248219
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 03:08
damn azdbacker i am #16, hmmn but you used 3 pitchers today, i will pass you tomorrow i guess:-))
53Chris
      ID: 24910517
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 03:10
We're not even 1/6 of the way through the season...and we all know I will finish ahead of you both ;)
54Chris
      ID: 24910517
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 03:11
And BTW, props on Azd for being able to maintain a conversation with himself for a good hour and a half...that's impressive stuff.
55Dan
      Sustainer
      ID: 0229323
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 03:11
an hour and a half! Blah, try doing it for days on end.... ;-)
56azdbacker
      Donor
      ID: 1832261
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 03:11
lol @ Chris Ho Park.
57Chris
      ID: 24910517
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 03:13
Chris Perez now ;)
58cancermoon
      ID: 53248219
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 03:13
Azdbacker just remember i am a rookie and had no idea how to trade well, so if you are only 3 places in front of me now, i can only improve as i learn, wahahahaaaaa
59Catfish
      Sustainer
      ID: 20557322
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 09:23
Where's that guy azdbacker when you need him? I guess he won't be up for a few more hours yet.

Hey is that you 15 TSNP ahead of my Taxfish NL team in the tag game? I already have Miller. Do you think I should buy more Diamondbacks?
60Mike D
      Donor
      ID: 323391521
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 09:25
Great thread, reminiscent of some from the Hoops season........
61Puckprophet
      ID: 54371812
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 10:41
lol ... now there's some coffee induced psychosis....
62Razor
      Donor
      ID: 305102622
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 13:48
Arizona is hitting over their heads right now. Junior Spivey isn't gonna get 85 doubles and Miller isn't gonna hit 40 HRs. Wait til that mean regression kicks in. Furthermore, I like how the Dodgers staff stacks up top to bottom vs. the D-backs. We have better lefties than the D-backs! Mwahahaha.
63azdbacker
      Donor
      ID: 1832261
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 15:56
You mean wait til Steve Finley, Luis Gonzalez and Mark Grace start hitting? Or Durazo gets off the DL? That mean regression works both ways, Razor. Gagne is due for a little bit of that, don't you think?

Catfish, you always need more DBacks.

Seriously, I'm not sure if I would pick up Spivey or Bautista if I didn't have them. Sooner or later a slump will come and the masses will force a trade.
64Razor
      Donor
      ID: 305102622
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 19:32
Sort of. Finley has been hitting, just not for average. And as Rob Neyer tells us over and over again, batting average is an overrated statistic. Besides, Finley is always a horrible starter. Gonzalez is hitting exactly like he's
"supposed" to, i.e. not 57 HR's. Without Durazo and Williams, I'd say the Arizona offense is pretty weak, which is why I am surprised they have had any sort of success so far.

Gagne is a fine pitcher but he's not going to have a 0.00 ERA all season but I'll enjoy it while it lasts.
65Razor
      Donor
      ID: 305102622
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 19:42
Also, I believe Arizona is going to fall victim to the same thing that happened to LA two years ago - no production out of the last two rotation spots. Brown, Park and Dreifort were a good 1-2-3 that season but they only got like 16 wins out of their bottom 2 that season. Not only does it cost you wins, tt taxes the bullpen. Helling will give you innings, but of what quality? Stottlemyre MIGHT give you some good innings, but how many? I think a lot of Arizona's success depends on Batista. I think he's got better potential to be good than Helling and Stottlemyre. If he can perform, Arizona will stay competitive.
66Jeddi
      ID: 32039422
      Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 21:27
when your front two are Johnson and Schilling...it doesn't totally matter who your 4 and 5 guys are as long as they are alive and breathing. Yes, it's nice to have good starters there, but comparing the Dodgers front three to the Diamonbacks top two is crazy. Schill and Randy are the best two(Pedro when hurt is third) pitchers in the game and almost a guaranteed win.

Park, Brown and Dreifort were never as dominating
67Steve Biz
      Donor
      ID: 73382515
      Sun, Apr 28, 2002, 01:01
There were weeks when Park and Brown were pretty damn dominating- but certainly with no where near the consistency as Randy/Curt. Azdbacker- you have a problem.
68Razor
      Donor
      ID: 149181618
      Sun, Apr 28, 2002, 11:58
First of all, Schilling can only be considered the 2nd best in the game when both Pedro and Brown are hurt. When healthy, Brown is clearly the better pitcher.

Anyway, if your back two are as bad as Randy and Schilling are good, what good is it having Randy and Curt? Also, if one of the big 2 gets hurt, it's over. Unit hasn't been hurt in years but Schilling has had periods of injury throughout his career. In fact, if he throws 200 innings this year, it'd the first time he's thrown 200 innings in 3 straight seasons. Anyway, it only takes a slippery mound to get a pitcher hurt....that's what happened to big Brown. Turned one of the game's most durable pitchers into a DL-case.
69Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 3711402623
      Sun, Apr 28, 2002, 12:08
Schilling pitched 256.2 innings in 2001

70Flying Polack
      ID: 8345199
      Sun, Apr 28, 2002, 12:11
Without injuries Mark "the bird" Fidrych would have been the best pitcher since Cy Young.

Seriously, why do people even bother making statements like that. It's a statement that nobody can argue. If Brown would've been healthy last year it's doubtful he would've been better than Schilling, but we will never know.

There is no way you can say in the 2002 that Kevin Brown is "clearly" a better pitcher than Curt Schilling. In previous years you could make that statement. But let's face it in 2001 Schilling stepped up his game to another level.

Injuries or no injuries Schilling is the better pitcher this year.

PS- This is coming from a pathetic Tiger fan. I could care less about the D-backs and Dodger rivalry. The first statement in Post 68 really irked me.
71Dan
      Sustainer
      ID: 0229323
      Sun, Apr 28, 2002, 12:12
Schilling is to get shelled today...
72Jeddi
      ID: 32039422
      Sun, Apr 28, 2002, 12:57
Derek Lee owns Schilling, so it wouldn't be a surprise for him to go crazy...
73Mr. Nice Guy
      Donor
      ID: 421124113
      Sun, Apr 28, 2002, 13:52
good through 2 innings so far, you may still be right... BUT I HOPE YOU'RE NOT! LOL :-)
74azdbacker
      Donor
      ID: 1832261
      Sun, Apr 28, 2002, 18:13
Schilling with a so-so game today, just 101 TSNP. That's almost like getting negative for your average pitcher.

;)
75Jeddi
      ID: 32039422
      Sun, Apr 28, 2002, 18:39
Yep, life is tough having both Schilling and Randy locked on the roster.
76azdbacker
      Donor
      ID: 1832261
      Mon, Apr 29, 2002, 01:07
Gotta love Bautista so far. Every time he drops 10 or 20 K he responds with a few hot games.

Miller should see some good price moves this week as he is breaking away from Barrett atop the catcher leader board and is cheaper. Not to mention better.

Now it's time to worry about Spivey, he's up over a million. He got the day off today (K'd in a PH role) and is off tomorrow. Needs a good game before Thursday's trade refresh. There's no real good reason to drop him right now, but if he goes Tuesday and Wednesday without a good game he will see some losses.
77cancermoon
      ID: 2236285
      Mon, Apr 29, 2002, 01:15
naaa there is no good value for money replacement for Spivey, unless people want to really upgrade. I think miller is hitting well above his ability, he is a bum and he is hot right now, Barrett is a talented hitter, so he probably will stay good all season. I hold Miller right now by the way , so I am being totally objective.
78azdbacker
      Donor
      ID: 1832261
      Mon, Apr 29, 2002, 02:26
No you're not. Barrett has never had as good a season as Miller has the last two. Miller has improved every season, Barrett has not. I watch Miller hit everyday, you don't. Barrett to Miller will be about a 300-500K price swing this week unless Barrett has a big game. Miller plays on a more regular basis as well. He should start about 10 more games than Barrett assuming they both stay healthy.

Is Miller hot right now? Yes. Is he playing above his ability? Probably. Has he proven himself to be a reliable player over time? Without a doubt. You can only say yes to the first to questions about Barrett. He hasn't proven jack. And neither have you, btw, cancermoon.

;)
79Chris
      ID: 24910517
      Mon, Apr 29, 2002, 04:05
Barrett is 25, Miller is 32.

The difference is that Miller is an "established" veteran, while Barrett is a blossoming youngster.

Miller has not improved every season, azd. His last 4 seasons have been almost identical, with the only thing that has changed being his playing time.

I'm not saying Barrett will definitely be better than Miller this year, but the reasons you list are invalid.

Miller has proven himself to be a "reliable player". If reliable means menas .330 OBP and .440 SLG every season, then you are absolutely right. It also means I don't think he'll be a good person to have on my team this year for the long haul if that's all he can produce. While it happens from time to time, it's rare for a 32 year old to make great strides at the plate. If he does(I'm not ruling it out), that's great, but it's not because he's "reliable".

Barrett on the other hand, had a rookie season(at 22) on par with any season Miller has ever had at any point in his career. If memory serves, over the next 2 years he A) struggled with injuries and B) switched from 3B to C(not an easy transition, C is a very demanding position). Obviously he has overachieved thus far, and it's a bit naive to think that he's suddenly a great catcher, but I don't see why he doesn't have more upside than Miller.

As for your point on their respective playing times...

Not sure where you get your information sometimes azd, they've played the same amount of games thus far, even with Barrett's injury. Barrett is in no more of a platoon situation than Miller is, and I haven't seen any evidence whatsoever to suggest that.

However...

Miller is a Diamondback, and Barrett is not

:)
80cancermoon
      ID: 2236285
      Mon, Apr 29, 2002, 05:13
It amases me how "one eyed blind" people can be to their team, If everyone else in the country sees a foul, some locals would not for the life of them imagine how it is called a foul. Very strange part of the human psychi.

I am pleased to own Miller at the momwent because he is peroducing money and points, Barrett's figures 3 years ago as a rookie were better than any year Miller has had. He has had injuries since then and adjusting from 3rd base as was mentioned.

In fantasy baseball Miller strikes out twice as often as Barrett, even more than that actually, and if you look at the amount of at bats, Barrett gets a lot more than Miller due to where they bat in the line up. All this adds up to more points, so Miller's avgs are going to have to be quite a bit higher than Barrett to score more than him in fantasy scoring over the course of the season.

Anyway I'll be going straight from Miller to Piazza so I am quite happy if barrett falls apart for everyone else, I just don't think he will.

Go Spivey though
81azdbacker
      Donor
      ID: 1832261
      Mon, Apr 29, 2002, 12:08
Barrett --> Miller = 120 K today.
82Razor
      Donor
      ID: 149181618
      Wed, May 01, 2002, 12:38
Re: post 70. You have to go back to 1995 to find a season in which Schilling bettered Brown in ERA. Schilling's postseason last year is like few anyone has ever seen, granted. Regarding his regular season though, about elevating his game, he just elevated it to a level Brown has been at for years. His regular season last year, by far his best, would've ranked around Brown's 4th best regular season. Saying Brown, when healthy, is better than Schilling isn't a stretch, it's a fact - throughout the last half decade Brown has been the superior pitcher every year. Brown was cruising along as one of the game's best last year until getting hurt. Stop getting fantasy confused with reality and you'll realize Brown has always been the better pitcher.

As to my original point, Arizona is now 11-1 with Unit/Schilling starting, 5-9 without. Can we reasonable expect Unit and Schilling to win 92% of their starts? No. Could Helling, Stottlemyre and Anderson/Batista finish with a losing record well below .500? Possible. And Randy is getting pushed back due to a sore back today. Unit's achilles heel (his back, not his achilles) better hold up or the Diamondbacks are in a lot of trouble. With the innings and the age taking their toll, I'd be surprised if either Unit or Schilling didn't hit the DL this year.
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