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0 Subject: Worst All-Star Game Ever!

Posted by: YOUNGBUCK
- [331381323] Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 00:48

all in favor say "I"!
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59Willix
      Sustainer
      ID: 354401513
      Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 15:15
Funny Walk, my man! I surfed around some during the game, and found the Miss Fitness pageant on ESPN. T & A can always trump the All Star game in my book. ;-)
60MyDodgers
      ID: 27416170
      Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 15:54
I enjoyed the game, great plays, a rocket home run..That is what I was looking for, who wins or loses seems beside the point of just watching the best play. The game is meaninless in the grand scheme of the season so why should the score of this meaningless game matter. Had the NL won we would have diehard AL fans giving excuses or 'reasons' why it happened or that it just didnt matter and vice versa. They had valid reasons for the actions and now can make allowances for it in the future since they have not to this point.
61Ref
      ID: 28045169
      Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 15:56
ROFL Willix!

I was working out at the gym watching the ASG and my wife asked me if I watched the Fitness show at all on one of the 9 TVs and I said no. Man was I stupid. The Baseball ASG is by far my favorite. I really don't care about the others and have never watched the Pro Bowl. But I wish I'd have fallen asleep now. Maybe Torii Hunter should have the MVP as at least he stopped a run from scoring!
62Tree
      ID: 599393013
      Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 16:32
to me, this was one of the best all-star games in my 33 years, with clearly the worst ending...

padilla and garcia are both STARTERS in their respective leagues. if they went 2 innings every time out, they wouldnt be starters for long. they could definitely have gone a few more innings...

there are no ties in baseball....

Tree

63The Left Wings
      ID: 760719
      Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 16:48
No, Tree, they won't go for long because their main jobs are to start for their respective teams, and their managers don't want to send them back to Seattle and Philly with two dead arms. They are supposed to start in a couple of days, you know.
64Perm Dude
      Leader
      ID: 19652912
      Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 16:52
Actually, Tree, it's not unusual for baseball exhibition games to end without a winner. Probably 5-10 games each spring are called without one team ahead.

pd
65YOUNGBUCK
      ID: 455522111
      Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 16:57
all iam trying to say is there should have been some kind of winner in this.........

also garcia said he could go more innings, so they should have asked the pitchers if they wanted to continue. and if they wanted to quit then that would be game.
66rockafellerskank
      Sustainer
      ID: 306261010
      Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 16:58
I heard someone stole the baseball so they had to quit.
67James K Polk
      ID: 13516513
      Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 17:34
LOL!
68kev
      ID: 11438306
      Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 17:39
They should have just had Robin Yount and Ozzie Smith come in and pitch. They arent playing for anything.
69The Left Wings
      ID: 760719
      Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 17:44
Of course Garcia could go more innings. It's just that he won't be able to go on, say tomorrow or Friday, if his team needs him to start. By starting a few days late, he could start one fewer game, and you certainly want your ace pitcher to start as many games as possible.
As Brenly said, three innings are the most a pitcher should pitch in an all-star game.
70rockafellerskank
      Sustainer
      ID: 456181014
      Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 18:02
I think Tom sums it up well.....


The Milwaukee Embarrassment
by Tom Verducci, Sports Illustrated

Baseball got the travesty it deserved in Milwaukee on Tuesday night, the worst All-Star Game ever staged. You keep treating the contest like a glorified spring training exhibition and that's exactly what you wind up with, the major difference being that fans were gouged to the tune of $175 a pop for a competition not played to completion in a city that lacks the ambiance and the hotel rooms of Cactus League towns.

Only in baseball and only in Milwaukee could a sport's premier event end up with angry fans pelting the playing field with garbage and chanting "Fans Strike!" in a publically financed stadium in the commissioner's own backyard. "He was shaking, literally shaking," said one baseball source near Bud Selig while the 11th and final inning failed to break a 7-7 tie.

Let's get one thing straight: Selig made the absolute right call in ending the game after the 11th inning. NL manager Bob Brenly floated the idea of a mini home run derby to break the deadlock -- a diamond version of a shootout -- to Selig. AL manager Joe Torre said he never considered telling pitcher Freddy Garcia to groove hittable fastballs to make a tie-breaking run possible.

"They're competitors," Torre said. "You can't tell them not to compete. And how is a rigged ending good for the fans?"

Selig could not risk an injury to Garcia or Vicente Padilla, the NL pitcher who Brenly said was incapable of pitching a third inning. The real problem, however, lies with baseball allowing itself to be painted into such an awkward corner.

"They tried to get everybody into the game," Selig said of the two managers. "That's the objective of the game."

Bratwurst, Bud. Wrong, wrong, wrong. If baseball cared less about turning the All-Star Game into some democratic softball funfest at the annual company picnic and cared more about playing the best players -- the players the fans really want to see -- in a competitive environment that actually resembles a real game (basically, where we were only 15 years ago) then baseball would not have found itself in the Milwaukee Embarrassment.

"It does have to be evaluated," Selig admitted, regarding the use of players.

See, baseball has been devaluing the All-Star Game for years, so much so that FOX would trade it to ESPN for the Home Run Derby in a heartbeat. Interleague play has helped kill the game because we've seen many of the batter-pitcher matchups before. The players don't care. Many of them skip the event entirely or keep the engines running on their timeshare jets while gracing the fans with an actual at-bat or two. Check out the All-Star dugouts after the fifth inning. Empty. The biggest stars --- the ones the fans vote to see -- scram after three or four innings. If the stars don't stick around, why should we? So we get All-Star Games such as the Milwaukee Embarrassment in which fans get to see Randy Winn come to the plate more often than Barry Bonds or Sammy Sosa. Did you stay up for that Winn-Mike Remlinger smackdown in the seventh inning?

It's ironic enough that baseball names the All-Star Game MVP Award after Ted Williams and then decides not to award it. But there is also this: Williams once said the highlight of his career was his 14th-inning homer to win the 1941 midsummer classic. The way the game is played now Williams would have touched down on the tarmac with his posse in time to watch the 14th inning on a television in his limo on his way to the ESPYs.

Nearly all the talk after the Milwaukee Embarrassment from Selig and the managers was about protecting the players. Nobody wanted to talk about protecting the interests of the fans. Let's face it, the game has become a meaningless blur of substitutions because nobody cares who wins or loses any more, the name of the game is pampering the players. At least three elite All-Stars, for instance, threatened to pull out of all events if baseball didn't meet their ridiculous whims, such as, in the case of two elite players, granting field access to members of their entourage.

Managers are most guilty of stripping the competition from the game. Apparently breaking a sweat is no longer permitted in All-Star games. The players' association is likely to file a grievance if anybody dares to use a pitcher for three innings, for instance. Got to get Johnny Anonymous from the Devil Rays an inning of work, people.

"If players start to think they're not going to get into the game, then why come at all?" asked Yankees third baseman Robin Ventura.

Hey, Mike Williams should be fetching coffee for John Smoltz at the All-Star Game, not enjoying some sense of entitlement to playing time.

Selig talked after the Milwaukee Embarrassment about expanding the rosters with more position players and pitchers. Huge mistake. Sure, shoehorn a few more players into the game until it looks like the cast of Ben Hur. Adding a pitcher or two is fine enough. To really fix the All-Star Game, here is what else needs to be done.


Get rid of the archaic rule that every team must be represented. People who don't deserve to be All-Stars basically cut the line of guys who do only because of this stupid rule. Magglio Ordonez, Eric Chavez and Jim Thome, for instance, were robbed of spots this year. It's time to ditch the rule, with one exception: the host city must have one representative.

Instruct managers to play the best players longer. Give the fans' favorites more at-bats. The constant substitutions must stop, especially with pitchers. Starters Roger Clemens and Dwight Gooden each pitched three innings in their 1986 duel. Only one of the past 28 starting All-Star pitchers has pitched three innings (Greg Maddux, 1994). On Tuesday night Brenly used as many pitchers through eight innings (eight) as both teams did in the entire 1971 All-Star Game. As recently as 1980-'88, nine of the 18 starting pitchers lasted at least three innings.
The rise of relief pitchers has hurt how long starters last in the game. Brenly, for instance, picked seven relievers among his 10 pitchers. (Starters Tom Glavine, Matt Morris and Randy Johnson all bailed from the team.) Relievers aren't trained to (gasp!) pitch two innings at a time.


Put something on the line. It used to be league pride, a forgotten concept. How about home field advantage for the World Series? Might players stick around if they knew a win might mean playing Game 7 of the World Series in their home park? If Benito Santiago had singled home Mike Lowell in the 11th inning Tuesday, would anybody have been there to come running out of the dugout to greet the winning run?

Keep the game out of Milwaukee. It's a fine, friendly city, but let's be honest. The only reason the game was held in Milwaukee was because Selig helped use it as a chip toward getting taxpayers to help build him a new park. When asked about future sites at a news conference Tuesday, Selig had the nerve to mention only one criteria for selection: adequate hotel space. Milwaukee might be equipped to host porcelain bathroom fixture conventions, but an All-Star Game? Forget it. The city was so eager to show the world its sophistication that it housed the international media contingent 15 miles away from downtown in roadside suburban hotels.
Many of the festivities were as disastrous as the game. Rain gushed from multiple leaks in the roof during the Home Run Derby. The annual All-Star Gala for players, media, special guests and corporate sponsors was scheduled at an outdoor venue -- with no tents rented. A vicious thunderstorm turned the party into a sad joke, with rain soaking the chafing dishes and guests alike. The annual postgame party was unlike anything since the days of Marge Schott: brats, chips and cookies. You know it's a lowbrow event when the catering is taken care of by left field bleachers surplus.

And so it came down to this: The commissioner of baseball, tighter than a brat casing, sitting there in his orange polka dot tie like some Dr. Seuss character waiting for a Cat in the Hat to save the day, a leaky, taxpayer-funded roof over his head, a near riot going on in the stands, and most of the best players in the game long gone from the premises. David Stern, Paul Tagliabue and Gary Bettman must have fallen off their couches with laughter, if they stayed up that late. (OK, OK, and Donald Fehr, too.)

Once upon a time the baseball All-Star Game was the best of its kind in sports. It was the only place, other than a World Series, to see if Johnny Bench could hit Catfish Hunter, or Reggie Jackson could hit Tom Seaver. It was the place to see if the National League really was better than the American League. Pete Rose cared enough to run into Ray Fosse. Ted Williams played the whole game.

Now the NBA All-Star Game is a better showcase. So they don't play much defense. At least Kobe Bryant is going to be on the floor in the fourth quarter trying to win.

Winning doesn't matter any more in the baseball All-Star Game. What matters is getting everyone playing time. What matters is getting the marquee players out of the game as quickly as possible. What matters is getting them on their jets before the fans realize they've been had. The Milwaukee Embarrassment should not have been a surprise. Baseball has been asking for it.

Sports Illustrated senior writer Tom Verducci covers the baseball beat for the magazine and is a regular contributor to CNNSI.com. Click here to send a question to his Baseball Mailbag

71Ref
      ID: 28045169
      Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 18:12
That was very well written.

At least people aren't as focused on steroids and the labor dispute for a day. ;)
72YOUNGBUCK
      ID: 455522111
      Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 18:26
rfs your really immature.
73Rogue's Strikers
      ID: 45629103
      Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 18:39
Nice glass house you live in Yongbuk. rfs, here's your rock...
74stinkypuff
      ID: 566333119
      Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 18:58
As long as they insist on using the "everybody gets to play" rule from Little League, why not go all the way and let batters hit off the tee? Think about it. Pitchers wouldn't get tired, hitters wouldn't have to worry about getting beaned -- and the winning manager could take his team out for ice cream. Problem solved.
75Perm Dude
      Leader
      ID: 2065918
      Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 19:51
I don't like the article at all. I remember growing up in the 70's in Cleveland, hoping that Gary Alexander or whoever was the Cleveland representative would get in the game. Don't we already have enough of the strong teams represented? Really--take away the "each team represented" rule (which makes what, like 2 or 3 difficult decisions per manager, tops?) and many fans will tune out. Watching "your" All-Star mix it up is a weak team fan's dream.

This doesn't mean that all the pitchers have to play. Verducci makes no distinction between position players and pitchers. Last night if there were another pitcher for each team available, they could have gone another three innings if necessary (probably not necessary given the teams that were out there would probably score).

I don't condone players leaving the scene early (should be a rule that they stay on the bench), but Ventura is right that more players would skip if they thought they were going to the ASG just to sit on the bench. Isn't it already a problem that players are skipping? Why turn on the taps?

On one hand you can't tell the players to be more competitive and on the other tell them fewer of them will be playing at all. Competitive dugout cheering?

If the game ended with a win this would have been considered a great ASG, despite Verducci's bitching about players not trying harder. Rose v Fosse is not the competitive level we should be striving for. The ASG is as much a celebration of the game with the fans (who voted in the starters, after all) as it is a game.

Verducci should stop worrying about whether someone won and examine his own need for competition in all things.

pd
76The Left Wings
      ID: 28851619
      Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 20:24
One thing I know for sure: that the reporters should live in roadside suburban hotels 15 miles away from downtown.
77steve houpt
      ID: 32428300
      Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 20:31
I remember growing up in the late 50's and 60's in Philadelphia. The Phillies had to have players on the All Star team (minimum of one). Actually had a few good ones. Ashburn, Roberts, Allen. Johnny Callison won 64 game with ? 3 run homer. But I watched to see the NL kick the AL's a$$. I was a National League fan. If the NL had a better chance with the Phillies rooting them on from the bench, oh well, get some better players Philadelphia. I wanted to see Aaron, Mays, etc. IT'S WAS AN ALL STAR GAME.

But all of that is gone. You show me an all star lineup from the 60's and I can tell you which team the players played for (and might be able to guess the year if you didn't tell me).

You show me a combined starting line up from a game in the 90's at random and I might be able to get the the league for about half of them. Which team was paying them that year, a little harder.

Baseball is a different game all around. No, it's just a business. So, the All Star is just another part of that business venture. Winning isn't everything. It's how much money you can make.

Good or bad. Who knows. The fan will decide (or corporate sponsors, or the TV sponsors).
78stinkypuff
      ID: 566333119
      Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 20:34
he probably overindulged in the "brats, chips and cookies" and had to take it out on somebody.
79Perm Dude
      Leader
      ID: 2065918
      Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 20:52
:)
80Ref
      ID: 121135289
      Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 21:17
Just a thought...what would happen in the World Series or even a reg. season game if they went say 16 or 17 innings or so and ran out of players? Wouldn't they have to make someone in the field pitch and go with 8 players and every time that person's turn came up there would be an out? Not saying they should go to that extreme for an ASG, but that would be more rare than a ASG simply going 12.
81Perm Dude
      Leader
      ID: 33637100
      Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 21:30
Ref, the managers do not attempt to use all their players in 9 innings; certainly not their pitchers.

This whole thing is self-correcting. You better believe that for the forseeable future in the ASG there will be a couple of pitchers who haven't even warmed up by the time the 9th rolls around.

pd
82Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 3711402623
      Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 22:10
I guess a lot of what he says makes sense if you agree that the game should be more competetive. Maybe you guys are right about that, I always felt it was a bit trivial and treating it as such seems to make it more fun. But that's me and since appeal value is a matter of opinion, there's no sense in me bothering to try and counter him there, even though he and I disagree on that.

However, there are just a few things he writes that are pretty off base or otherwise just completly pointless in there, regardless of your opinion.

"Milwaukee Embarrassment"

...in a city that lacks the ambiance and the hotel rooms of Cactus League towns.

...and only in Milwaukee could a sport's premier event end up..blah blah bla


That stuff is added for no reason other than to be a jerk. Does he hate Selig so much that he has to take a cheap shot at his whole city? Completly pointless, arrogant.

[If baseball]...cared more about playing the best players -- the players the fans really want to see...

He knows damn well that the players the fans want to see are never all of the best among the league. You need go no further than (I'm guessing with relative confidence) every single all-star roster elected by the fans for proof. He's trying to sneak by us the false notion that since the fans elect the best players to the game, they are expressing that they want to see a competeive contest. Lots of the other things he says have merit, but applying that logic with any degree of honesty actually works against him, if anything. Regardless, he's faking an argument under false pretenses, and he's not even good or slick about it.

Put something on the line. It used to be league pride, a forgotten concept. How about home field advantage for the World Series?

Riiiiiiiight. Boston fans watching their team trailing the Yankees in a tight division race will be happy to trust Joe Torre with Pedro Martinez in his hands and visions of home field advantage in 3 months?

Keep the game out of Milwaukee. It's a fine, friendly city, but let's be honest... Milwaukee might be equipped to host porcelain bathroom fixture conventions, but an All-Star Game? Forget it. The city was so eager to show the world its sophistication that it housed the international media contingent 15 miles away from downtown in roadside suburban hotels.

Man, why does he hate that town so much? No, no, I said it's a fine, friendly city. I know you did, Tom.
Really, what does he want? It's a small market town. Was Pittsburgh any better? I've never been to either city, but is it set up that much better to handle the press corps for an event the size of the ASG than Milwaukee? What about Cincy? Should ample hotel accomodations for the press be a mandatory prerequisite for a city to qualify for the All Star Game? But it's the fans that are being cheated, right? What if one of those small market teams gets to the playoffs, Tom? He'll bitch about his 45min commute to work at the World Series in another article about how the fans got screwed, I guess.
83The Left Wings
      ID: 28851619
      Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 22:13
Ref, the game is forfeited if you can't put 9 players on the field. As of those 20-inning games, yes they did have to play until there's a winner. The poor last pitcher will have to pitch for a long long time, unless they decide to have the starter for the next day warm up and pitch ahead of time and skip a start.
84stinkypuff
      ID: 566333119
      Wed, Jul 10, 2002, 22:25
Good question, ref. Never heard of it happening in an MLB game, but it must have happened to some pro team at some point. Or maybe not. In the legendary longest game in baseball history (33 innings) the AAA Pawtucket Red Sox used only 11 hitters and 8 pitchers. Rochester used 16 hitters and 6 pitchers (although the losing pitcher wasn't on the team until the game was completed two months after it started).
85Madman
      ID: 21020124
      Thu, Jul 11, 2002, 02:00
More Random Thoughts:

1) I remember the 1983 All-Star game vividly. Watch those guys on the AL team react after Fred Lynn's HR. They wanted that game bad. Pride was on the line.

2) I think the biggest issue with the 11-inning game isn't with Selig's decision. It's with the fact that a single moment in time encapsulated all that has gone wrong with the All-Star game -- and baseball to some extent -- over the past 20 years.

On top of the obvious issues that have been touched upon above by many -- which are indeed critical -- It was a shocking revelation about just how selfish the players and management have both become.

Walk talked about playing games without meaning; PD has made between this game and spring training games. The fact that we no longer see the difference between those things and the All-Star game is a direct result of incredibly selfish actions. We, the fans, have had our pockets picked.

Once upon a time, games had meaning because of the effort people put in; now players claim that they will only put out effort in games with meaning. Prior to the 1990's players with pride put effort into even the All-Star game, thereby giving it special meaning. After the 1990's, players have it all backwards.

PD is correct in his analogy between the ASG and ST; but that is the problem, not an excuse. The All-Star Game has become a total joke, one of which puts yet another dent into an already failing national past-time.

And, less than 24 hours after Bud Selig's unprecedented decision to terminate the All-Star game without refunds or meaningful apologies, he threatens that two teams aren't going to make it through the season because they aren't going to have the money.

Is there no shame left in baseball? Or is the greed and corruption so pervasive that anything goes? Players not willing to give a decent effort; owners scamming for every buck. It's time America got rid of our national past-time and took our pride back.
86KYCAT
      Donor
      ID: 37649415
      Thu, Jul 11, 2002, 09:00
"There's no TYING in Baseball!"
87Ref
      ID: 28045169
      Thu, Jul 11, 2002, 11:07
If handled correctly, 30 players should be plenty.

The 1967 All-Star Game went 15 innings, with Tony Perez of the Cincinnati Reds homering to give the NL a 2-1 victory. Despite having only 25 players on his roster, NL manager Walter Alston looked at his bullpen after the ninth inning and still had Mike Cuellar, Don Drysdale and Tom Seaver available. Sitting around for AL manager Hank Bauer was Catfish Hunter, who entered in the 11th and served up Perez's home run in the 15th.
88slug
      Donor
      ID: 555102417
      Thu, Jul 11, 2002, 12:50
Shouldn't the roster size be smaller? That way the chosen players will have to play longer and you still have ample innings to get everybody in the game. One problem with this is that you'll have even more players snubbed.

IMO, the managers should not be allowed to choose the remaining roster. Maybe a committee of each leagues managers can make the decision.

Just a few thoughts I had that I don't think have been addressed yet.
90Ref
      ID: 28045169
      Thu, Jul 11, 2002, 14:16
Let's not make one of the leagues look bad. Yeah that's it. We are so even and equal that we should just tie to prove it!
91Pilewort
      Donor
      ID: 47555287
      Thu, Jul 11, 2002, 14:20
I can hear Torre before the game, giving his pep talk to the AL All-Star squad:

"Ted Williams meant a lot to the game of baseball and a lot to the American League. You, Nomar, have the weight of Ted's spirit on your shoulders today, as does this entire team. Now let's go out and tie one for the Gipper."
92blue hen, almighty
      ID: 473133021
      Thu, Jul 11, 2002, 14:42

"Get rid of the archaic rule that every team must be represented. People who don't deserve to be All-Stars basically cut the line of guys who do only because of this stupid rule. Magglio Ordonez, Eric Chavez and Jim Thome, for instance, were robbed of spots this year. It's time to ditch the rule, with one exception: the host city must have one representative."

I disagree wholeheartedly. I know there aren't many Devil Rays fans, but I'm sure they loved having Winn in the game. I definitely hung on every Jimmy Rollins' at-bat. This is a MUST to keep fans of bad teams.

93Silver Streak
      ID: 251141412
      Thu, Jul 11, 2002, 15:21
....and Randy Winn played pretty good in that game too. Makes you wonder if he would have been a valid all-star surrounded by better teammates.
94Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 1832399
      Thu, Jul 11, 2002, 15:24
it does?
95Silver Streak
      ID: 251141412
      Thu, Jul 11, 2002, 15:24
Before you all freak out, yes I live in Tampa Bay.
96beastiemiked
      ID: 17414316
      Thu, Jul 11, 2002, 15:27
I clung myself to the TV hoping they would show the lone St.Louis rep riding the pine.
97Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 1832399
      Thu, Jul 11, 2002, 15:31
Just saying, everyone is going on about what a travesty it is that the game is taken so non-chalantly(sp?). Besides, it is only one game, after all. Not dissing Winn, mind you, I wouldn't say he isn't the real deal or whatever, just that one ASG performance isn't any kind of a guage.
98walk
      Leader
      ID: 214581016
      Thu, Jul 11, 2002, 15:39
Sorry, I do not know how to quickly create hyperlinks. Below are 3 URLs from 3 interesting articles on this "event" (non-event, IMO) from today's NY Times. Jack Curry offers many options for preventing this in the future (all arguably tenable or dumb) while the others focus more on the bigger pitcure of how the recent all-star )non)-result is just one more sign of how this particular sport is going way downhill (a la mr. houpt):

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/11/sports/baseball/11STAR.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/11/sports/baseball/11BASE.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/11/sports/baseball/11RHOD.html

- walk
99KrazyKoalaBears
      Donor
      ID: 266182910
      Thu, Jul 11, 2002, 15:40
3 of the AL's 7 runs were scored and 1 driven in by sole-representatives, who likely wouldn't have been there without the rule: Fick, Winn, and Batista.

In addition:
• Winn was one of only 3 players in the game to hit a double and had one of the AL's 3 SB's.

• Fick also had one of the AL's 3 SB's and scored the game-tying run.

• Batista's RBI came with 2 outs in the top of the 7th.

Looking at the box score, at least for the AL, the "have to be represented" guys did a lot more for the team than a lot of the guys voted to start, who were a combined 4-for-17, with 8 K's.

100James K Polk
      ID: 13516513
      Thu, Jul 11, 2002, 15:43
walk link #1

walk link #2

walk link #C

Walk, you might want to check out the little "Click here to create and insert a link" line right below the text entry box. It's really easy to use.
101Silver Streak
      ID: 251141412
      Thu, Jul 11, 2002, 15:55
KKB: I'm glad you got my point....and I wasn't saying Randy Winn is the 2nd coming of Vlad Guerrero, but it is possible he is as good offensively as Junior Spivey, Shea Hillenbrand and others who have FAR superior teammates around them. Just a thought.....
102Khahan
      ID: 586521115
      Thu, Jul 11, 2002, 15:58
KKB, all those stats about the lone rep's driving in/scoring runs for the AL is nice..but which pitchers did they score off of? Which NL defensive bests were out there fielding when this happened?
103rockafellerskank
      Sustainer
      ID: 576311110
      Thu, Jul 11, 2002, 16:00
If reserves Winn, Fick, and Batista did all that, what would the regulars have done? Better? I think so.
104walk
      Leader
      ID: 214581016
      Thu, Jul 11, 2002, 16:00
Thanks, Prez. You're right, pretty do-able!

:-)
walk
105Perm Dude
      Leader
      ID: 19652912
      Thu, Jul 11, 2002, 16:01
KKB: 4 of 7. Vizquel's triple in the eighth tied up the game.

pd
106KrazyKoalaBears
      Donor
      ID: 266182910
      Thu, Jul 11, 2002, 17:32
Khahan, Perez, Gagne, Remlinger (2), Kim (2), and Nen gave up the NL runs. Not exactly the easiest of guys to score off of. Defense? Not sure, but that would lead one to believe that the NL could do the same and yet they only scored 2 runs in the last 5 innings of the game, both off of a great closer in Sasaki. Looking at both lineups, I wouldn't discount the results of Winn, Fick, Batista, or Vizquel. Not one bit.

rfs, the Starters and the non-starter "stars" barely did anything. What makes you think that other reserves would do any better? Even the non-starter stars didn't do much. Between Winn, Fick, Batista, and Vizquel, there were 3 runs and 2 RBI. That leaves just 4 runs and 5 RBI for the other 17 "stars".

107BoSoxFan9
      ID: 215441721
      Thu, Jul 11, 2002, 22:34
I apologize for not reading in this forum more often, but can somebody clue me in about all of the stolen basketball jokes?
108rockafellerskank
      Sustainer
      ID: 456181014
      Thu, Jul 11, 2002, 22:38
YOUNGBUCK's stolen basketball yarn....
109Madman
      ID: 21020124
      Fri, Jul 12, 2002, 03:46
When did this story of Padilla having trouble warming up before the 10th get started?

The reason I'm asking is that Brenly was asked in the bottom of the 10th how long Padilla could go, and he said something like "3 innings, but only because he threw so few pitches in the 10th."

Did Brenly lie to us? Or did he tell a fib to the Commish to protect his behind? Or did he not find out about the status of Padilla until sometime during the top of the 11th?
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