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Subject: Expo's
Posted by: PuNk42AE
- [598521312] Thu, Oct 24, 2002, 14:07
Has anyone heard the rumor about the Expo's moving to Boston next season, and playing at Fenway while the Sox are away. So they would basically have home games going on there through-out the season. What does everyone think about that idea? |
| 1 | Seattle Zen
Donor
ID: 554192913
Thu, Oct 24, 2002, 14:30
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Ridiculous
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| 2 | PuNk42AE
ID: 598521312
Thu, Oct 24, 2002, 14:42
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Basically it is just so MLB can make alot of money. Plus it would help out John Henery because they would pay rent while they played there. All MLB can say is it will bring back National league baseball to Boston for a season for the first time since the Braves were there.
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| 3 | J
Leader
ID: 49346417
Thu, Oct 24, 2002, 14:43
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I heard something like the Expos would play "home" games all throughout the country - anywhere from Nothern VA-->Portland-->Puerto Rico.
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| 4 | PuNk42AE
ID: 598521312
Thu, Oct 24, 2002, 14:46
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Yeah I just read this rumor about boston on ESPN. I guess MLB is throwing it out there. But of course we won't know anything for sure until after the Angels beat the Giants...
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| 5 | Tree
ID: 599393013
Thu, Oct 24, 2002, 14:55
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personally, it surprises me that if MLB is going to "try" a team in a different city, that they wouldn't try the Expos in the NYC area.
it's far and away the most underserved market - you've got teams for the zillions of people that live in NYC and eastern jersey. brooklyn could use a big league team, or even the jersey shore...
just an idea,
Tree
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| 6 | PuNk42AE
ID: 598521312
Thu, Oct 24, 2002, 14:57
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Yeah i'm surprised they haven't talked more about Putting it right on the shore's of Jersey with a view of the Manhattan Skyline.
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| 7 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 1832399
Thu, Oct 24, 2002, 15:54
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Baltimore/DC/Richmond is pretty underserved, too. But I agree, there's no question The NYC market could suppor another team. You could put them on Long Island or anyplace from Central Jersey to Rockland County or even in Westchester or Stamford.
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| 8 | Seattle Zen
Donor
ID: 554192913
Thu, Oct 24, 2002, 17:38
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Post 5 - it's far and away the most underserved market
You are joking, right?
MITH post 7 - where is the ;) after your post?
Sure, New York has plenty of people, but you also have two stadiums that have MANY, MANY empty seats whenever the teams are playing there. How many sellouts did the Mets have this year? How many people went to the Yankees/Devil Rays or Yankees/Royals games this year.
Actually, Seattle has a far greater argument. There were only 200,000 Safeco seats that went unfilled this year. There were 1,000,000 Yankee Stadium seats unfilled and 1,500,000 Shea Stadium seats unfilled. Why don't y'all finish filling the stadiums you have before asking for another team.
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| 9 | Matt S
Donor
ID: 218402015
Thu, Oct 24, 2002, 18:49
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Or how about leave them in Montreal where there is already a good market? A top 20 NA sports market IIRC. The problem isn't the location of the team, it's the location of the building, the building itself and the league. The new CBA will help the Spos dramatically, and with the core they have now, I don't think there'll be a problem a couple years down the road (if they get a new stadium)
Matt S
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| 10 | blue hen
Leader
ID: 22100300
Thu, Oct 24, 2002, 20:08
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link
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| 11 | Tree
ID: 14957244
Thu, Oct 24, 2002, 21:05
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i think the stat that counts is butts put IN the seats, not butts left out of them.
the Yankees average a few hundred less per game than seattle. the Mets are about 8,000 behind the mariners, but both new york teams are in the top seven (seattle is one, yanks two, mets seven).
According to the 2000 census, New York City has a population of over 8 million, and that doesnt include the eastern part of New Jersey that commutes to and from the City every day, use its resources, and cheer for its teams.
Seattle on the other hand, according to the 2000 census, had about 564,000 residents.
Thats about a 14-to-1 ratio in favor of new york city.
Additionally, that means NYC has one baseball team per 4,000,000 residents. Seattle has one baseball team per 282,000 residents.
i'm sorry seattle zen, you were saying something?
Tree
forest. Trees.
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| 12 | biliruben
Sustainer
ID: 3502218
Thu, Oct 24, 2002, 21:12
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No, Tree.
By that logic Mexico City has no ballparks per 20 million. It does matter how many people go to the games and how many seats are left empty. If you can't fill the capacity you have know because NY fans are lousy, then why do you deserve another park that you don't fill?
It's not a matter of how many people you have in your city, it's a matter of how many true baseball fans you have in your city. You obviously have far fewer per capita than tiny Seattle. Pretty pathetic.
Sounds like we should turn shea into a skatepark and disband the Mets.
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| 13 | Tree
ID: 14957244
Thu, Oct 24, 2002, 21:30
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apples, meet the oranges.
we're comparing underserved major league baseball markets, not countries that don't have one single major league team, nor the economy to support said team.
having said that, there's much more competition for entertainment dollar, heck, for ANY dollar in NYC than there is in Seattle.
as for shea turning into a skate park, i hardly consider drawing nearly 3 million people to be shabby.
besides, seattle already has the market cornered in that department. i mean, until safeco came along, the mariners played in a ballpark that had so much concrete, it might as well have already been a skate park.
Tree
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| 14 | biliruben
Sustainer
ID: 3502218
Thu, Oct 24, 2002, 21:38
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Speaking of the Kingdome - did you see shots of the dudes who climbed up to the roof before it was imploded, and skateboard down!
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| 15 | biliruben
Sustainer
ID: 3502218
Thu, Oct 24, 2002, 21:56
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So you are saying that Seattle is leading NY in attendance because New Yorkers prefer musicals to baseball? Fair enough. We don't have many musicals coming through Seattle. Other than that, I can't think of many entertainments NY has the Seattle doesn't. In fact, Seattle has a much greater and more accessible variety of outdoor activities during baseball season than NY City does.
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| 16 | Skidazl
Leader
ID: 5074248
Thu, Oct 24, 2002, 22:05
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re # 11, I am trying to figure what other team plays in Seattle?
"Additionally, that means NYC has one baseball team per 4,000,000 residents. Seattle has one baseball team per 282,000 residents"
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| 17 | Tree
ID: 14957244
Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 06:49
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LOL, re #16, that was my ADD in action. obviously, one baseball team per 564,000 residents...
as for what the NYC metropolitan area has that seattle doesn't...
---two major league baseball teams
---two NBA franchises
---two NFL teams
---four NHL teams
---one MLS team
---three major venues for concerts
---more live music venues with bands every single night then i could even begin to count.
---probably about 10 zillion more eatting establishments
---several large zoos
ok, i'll stop.
Tree
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| 18 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 1832399
Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 09:39
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In fact, Seattle has a much greater and more accessible variety of outdoor activities during baseball season than NY City does.
I currently have no facts to challenge this but I don't know how likely this is. NYC is a massive, massive place in area. Outdoor free concerts in Central park almost every night in the summer. Shakespere in the park almost as often. Outdoor movie showings in Bryant park during the summer. Anyone who has been to Washington Square Park or Coney Island knows that you can easily waste away a day at either of those places just soaking in the atmosphere. The same can be said for the South Street Seaport. There are various tourist cruises around the island, two zoos, four botanical gardens, dozens of public parks, each with their own events. Fort Greene Park, up the street from my apartment has Swing Dancing in the summer.
City of NY Parks and Recreation.
Some of the city's public basketball courts are world reknowned and each borough has public tournaments all year long. The level of competition in some tourneys is something to behold and often much more exciting than watching the Knicks or Red Storm. There's at least one parade and/or one or more street fairs someplace in this city every weekend from Memorial day to Labor Day. There are 11 golf courses and 6 driving ranges IN NYC. There are multiple indoor and outdoor ice skating rinks. There are 13 Cricket fields. There are countless historical neighborhood tours in every borough. Then there's shopping...
I'm sure there are certain activities you won't find within the NYC limits that Seattle might offer, but certainly not out of public trans reach from the city.
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| 19 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 1832399
Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 10:49
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Also failed to mention that there are two minor league teams within NYC limits as well. The A-level Staten Island Yankeed and Brooklyn Cyclones.
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| 20 | biliruben
Sustainer
ID: 589301110
Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 11:33
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LOL! I have raised the ire of the chamber of commerce of the rotten apple. I respect your civic pride.
I have lived in NYC. I am aware of it's advantages and short-comings. It is all relatively tangential to Tree's argument however.
Okay, a little civic pride of my own. I don't see anything up there that Seattle doesn't have, except we have minor league instead of major league hockey and soccer. We also have two minor league baseball teams in the area, blah blah blah. When I was saying outdoor activities, I was thinking hiking, climbing, kayaking, biking, skiing... that kinda thing. All less than an hour from the city. We unfortunately have too much golf and swing dancing as well. A sad state of affairs across America.
Fort Greene, huh? I used to live in Brooklyn Heights - on Pineapple.
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| 21 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 1832399
Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 11:45
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Bili, if you want to talk within an hour of the city, well that's a whole other ball of wax. While I don't know of kayacking or skiing within an hour, (2 hours yes) there's certainly plenty of hiking and climbing within the city itself. With all due respect, considering convenient access to Long Island, the Hudson Valley and the Jersey Shore, I don't think your argument stands.
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| 22 | biliruben
Sustainer
ID: 589301110
Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 11:58
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It wasn't my argument, it was Tree's:
having said that, there's much more competition for entertainment dollar, heck, for ANY dollar in NYC than there is in Seattle.
I am not sure why he was arguing it, given that it supported the notion that NYC couldn't support another team, but hey! like I said, I'm all for civic pride.
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| 23 | Tree
ID: 599393013
Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 12:06
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MITH, we've even got kayaking in the City.
But i'd try really hard not to get too much water on you...
as for the original argument, my point was that there's a lot of competition for spending $$$ in the city, and even with that, our two teams ranked in the top seven in baseball. you could add a third team to our metropolitan area - hoboken, western manhattan, brooklyn, even long island, and i assure you we'd have three teams in the top 10 in attendance.
Peace,
Tree
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| 24 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 1832399
Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 12:11
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Really, I think much of the attendance argument is moot anyhow. The real revenue comes from TV sales, and this is the #1 media market in the country by a wide margin.
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| 25 | quik_ag
ID: 577203014
Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 12:46
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I'm still trying to figure out what our fourth NHL team is.. unless you're counting philadelphia as a suburb (the argument can be made ;-) or even washington for that matter. I've always been a big proponent of bringing another team to the city. I can remember a few years back when giuliani created a taskforce to look into the feasibility of bringing the dodgers back to brooklyn. i don't think survivability can be called into question. any team with 20+M potential television-watchers a night is not going to have a hard time making ends meet. and talk about competitive balance: a third team in the big apple can only eat away at the financial advantage that the yankees and mets now enjoy. hell, move 6 more teams down there and we'd be in no better shape than your anaheims or milwaukees.
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| 26 | Tree
ID: 599393013
Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 13:27
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where did that pesky fourth team go? eh, let that be a lesson - don't count that high before 7 a.m...
Tree
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| 27 | PuNk42AE
ID: 598521312
Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 13:38
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Now they are talking about playing 18-20 games down in Puerto Rico, I mean really talking about it now. Now who knows what exactly will happen. Where does everyone think they will play?
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| 28 | PuNk42AE
ID: 598521312
Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 13:40
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Now they are talking about playing 18-20 games down in Puerto Rico, I mean really talking about it now. Now who knows what exactly will happen. Where does everyone think they will play?
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| 29 | The Left Wings
ID: 486501617
Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 14:28
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A nomadic team that plays 162 road games a season. What an original idea...
Now, MITH, I think by "outdoor activities" Biliruben was not talking about outdoor concerts, outdoor movies, zoos or whatever. Out here in the west "outdoor activities" are hiking, swimming at the beach, white river rafting etc.. Things that you do in the nature, outside of the city, and not just anything under the sun.
I guess if you live in NYC, you probably wouldn't notice that there's an "outside" to the city, would you?
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| 30 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 1832399
Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 14:47
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TLW, my guess you have never seen the 120 miles of shoreline on the coast of Long Island? The unique nature of Long Island Sound? The glacier created and still largely wooded hills of the Hudson Valley? Bear Mountain? The Jersey Shore? Biliruben compared Seattle to NYC. Once you leave the city limits of NY, the number of outdoor activities are abundant. You've got to travel a bit further from NYC to ski that you would from Seattle, but beyond that, I doubt there's much difference in what the two regions have to offer. Inside the cities, I'm sure Seattle does not even compare.
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| 31 | James K Polk
ID: 23754811
Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 14:52
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Cool. An East Coast-West Coast battle. Shouldn't we be making posts rhyme or something? :)
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| 32 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 1832399
Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 14:54
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Nah, only that West coast junk rhymes these days.
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| 33 | James K Polk
ID: 23754811
Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 14:56
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Sir Mix-a-lot will kick your ass for that.
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| 34 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 1832399
Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 14:58
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LOL
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| 35 | biliruben
Sustainer
ID: 3502218
Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 15:14
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I've seen the hypodermic needles in the sand at Jones beach, the dolled up wanna-bes in the Hamptons, climbed the paved path up Bear "Mountain" (scoff), and visited the mostly private Jersey Shore (you were kidding with that one right?). I can assure you that, unless you actually go up into true NY State and get into the Adirondacks (as opposed to that metropolitan off-shoot of New Jersey that claims to be in NY), nothing near your city compares to the majestic beauty of the great Northwest. Come out and I'll show you what a mountain really is.
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| 36 | James K Polk
ID: 23754811
Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 15:22
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Gotta go to the Hoh. (And no, this has nothing to do with the "rap war" alluded to earlier)
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| 37 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 1832399
Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 16:03
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Bili of course the nature of the NY metropolitan area does not challenge the splendor of the Pacific NW, but you keep changing your point. With reagard to your original statement, the one that I initially responded to, Seattle has a much greater and more accessible variety of outdoor activities during baseball season than NY City does, this is simply not true. When the topic changed to "nature activities" in the disputed "metropolitan areas", I believe the two are comparable. Your newest topic clearly favors your region. Wanna talk dance clubs?
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| 38 | Seattle Zen
Donor
ID: 554192913
Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 16:09
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MITH - 37
Yes, I do. I can get into a club in Seattle without waiting an hour in line to pay $30 and pass the judgment of some knuckle-dragging bouncer. Would I like to be able to catch a NYC subway to get home afterwards, most definately. Otherwise, Seattle rocks!
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| 39 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 1832399
Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 16:12
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Lines almost always suck at the big ones, I'll give you that, but there are plenty of smaller places where this is far less a factor. I'm sure the greatest difference however, is choice. I have no idea how many dozens of spots there are, probably hundreds.
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| 40 | Tree
ID: 599393013
Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 17:46
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SZ - i cannot remember the time i waited in a line at a club for an hour, paid 30 bucks unless it was a big name performer, or had to pass the muster of some knuckledragging bouncer.
those type of clubs falls into two categories.
1. mythical and nonexistant, it ain't the 80s..
2. wannabees who will do what you mentioned to hang out with the rich and famous and pretend that they themselves are rich and famous...
we have numerous clubs here where you can pay under 10 bucks for a night of live music, and many of those are no cover at all.
peace,
Tree
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| 41 | Seattle Zen
Donor
ID: 554192913
Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 18:52
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Tree, those places you go aren't clubs, they are nurseries. Of course there are no lines or bouncers, most humans don't want to hit on a shrub or potted plant ;)
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| 42 | James K Polk
ID: 23754811
Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 18:53
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Although there are plenty of Seattlites who might "hit" on a "potted plant."
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| 43 | steve houpt
ID: 32428300
Fri, Oct 25, 2002, 20:16
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Why not Seattle.
1. It's Seattle. :)
2. Seattle's on the left coast. :)
3. Not good for the environment. Adds excessive travel miles to MLB schedule.
4. Seattle never matched league average in attendance in first 19 years. Seattle Pilots must not have done much better.
5. Montreal drew great when stadium was new and they had good teams.
6. Let's see what Mariners do if they have a few bad seasons and the stadium 'wears' off.
Why not New York.
1. Who cares if they could draw. They have two teams.
2. New Jersey baseball Nets to compete with the Mets sounds OK.
=============
I'd love to see a team in New Orleans [might even stop my boycott], but other than me and about 15,000 other MLB baseball fans here, probably could not make it. LSU baseball might draw more than major league baseball in New Orleans. Especially now that NBA moved a team into city to compete for dollars.
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| 44 | Rogue's Strikers
ID: 149362423
Sat, Oct 26, 2002, 03:00
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Wow, a non-Montreal native recognizing the truth. Congrats Matt S (post #9), now if we could only get all of MLB to realize it... (yeah right!)
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| 45 | biliruben
Sustainer
ID: 589301110
Sat, Oct 26, 2002, 14:20
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I certainly wasn't suggesting Seattle could support another team, just the NY didn't deserve one.
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| 46 | blue hen
Leader
ID: 22100300
Sat, Oct 26, 2002, 15:59
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Seattle Zen, post 38...
Easy. Just move to within walking distance of the places you go. I know this great place on 4th...
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| 47 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 3711402623
Sat, Oct 26, 2002, 18:58
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40 Tree, might not be your thing (hasn't been mine in a couple of years now), but places like The Limelight (moreso 5 years+ back), The Tunnel, Whatever they call the old Bank now, Vinyl, The Roxy and Twilo - just to name a few off the top of my head - all fit SZ's descrpition. There's like 10 new super-clubs going up in the next couple of years besides them. Most of those places are between $25 - $50 to walk in the door and if the transvestite (no self respecting club owner leaves that job up to the bouncers) at the entrance doesn't like you, well tough. But there are many other places, much smaller (all the above mentioned accomodate over 600 people, some 1,000) like Turntables on the Hudson - pier 25 I think in Chelsea. 200 person or so limit, $12 cover, music is usually good, atmosphere is ideal (no hard drugs, no tough guys, no kids).
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| 48 | Tree
ID: 14957244
Sat, Oct 26, 2002, 20:58
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MITH - most of those clubs - limelight, twilo, etc etc are gone, closed when guliani went to war with peter gathian.
all i was saying is that personally, i'd never go to a club like that, at least, not by my own choice. sometimes, because of my job, i have to go, but for the most part, i prefer to avoid the cliche..
peace,
Tree
hippie
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