Posted by: blue hen
- Leader [710321114] Wed, Nov 13, 2002, 17:12
"The batting champion has always been the one who hits for the highest average. The fielding champion should be the guy who had less errors or the better percentage," he said. "They are probably going to have to change the voting."
Thanks, Omar
1
The Left Wings
ID: 1668298 Wed, Nov 13, 2002, 19:49
I think he has a point there, just like the dad we talked about in the hockey forum (his son has superior stats but lost the MVP to someone with inferior stats). This is like a consolation prize to ARod for losing the AL MVP at the expense of somebody else. Now everybody is unhappy.
Actually, I like how he spoke his mind. I really hate those people who always say the "right" thing just to make other people happy instead of saying what he really thinks.
2
Madman Donor
ID: 21020124 Wed, Nov 13, 2002, 21:18
Hey, cool idea. The person with the fewest errors. Anyone wanna vote for me for a Gold Glove?
3
James K Polk
ID: 23754811 Wed, Nov 13, 2002, 21:42
Right. Was just going to say that although the batting crown is based on highest average, it is not truly a "best hitter" award. That type of award would obviously encompass a lot more than batting average. The gold glove is given to "best fielders," so much more than fewest errors has to be taken into account. Not nearly as objective an award.
4
James K Polk
ID: 23754811 Wed, Nov 13, 2002, 21:46
A-Rod played in 12 more games than Omar, had 100 more innings, had 65 more defensive chances, 20 more putouts, 40 more assists, 10 more double plays.
He also had a Zone Rating (if you're into that sort of thing) of .919, compared with Lil' O's .843. (ESPN defines ZR as The percentage of balls fielded by a player in his typical defensive "zone," as measured by STATS, Inc.)
5
Tree
ID: 1910511219 Wed, Nov 13, 2002, 21:49
and let's face facts...the gold glove award has never been the award for "dude with the highest fielding percentage..."
it's the award for the best fielder...there are a ton of guys out there who fill the highlight film with their defensive gems...those are the guys who oughta win the gold gloves...
peace, Tree then again, Cecil probably never won an award for best fielder...
6
ksoze Sustainer
ID: 50643419 Wed, Nov 13, 2002, 23:00
Since Gold Gloves "are voted on by managers and coaches before the end of the regular season," I doubt the award was given to ARod as "a consolation prize."
7
The Left Wings
ID: 1668298 Thu, Nov 14, 2002, 00:26
Ummm good point, Ksoze.
Now, can anyone explain to me why the player with the highest fielding percentage is not the best fielder? Their hitting stats are (or should be) irrelevant here, right?
8
ksoze Sustainer
ID: 50643419 Thu, Nov 14, 2002, 00:48
TLW, Best fielding percentage actually means much less then people make it out to. A fielder with less range then another fielder (same type of stat refered to by Mr. Prez in #4) gets to less balls in play and, therefore, probably makes less errors. That doesn't necessarily equate to a better fielding percentage but I think it goes to figure that the more range a player has, the more difficult some of those extra plays will be (though, because of extended range they may look easier then they are) and therefore the more potential for errors, especially considering the human (and home or away!) element in the scoring of errors.
I think a more important reason to take range into account, though, is the fact that a fielder with greater range is going to take away more base hits and is therefore more valuable a fielder then someone who gets to many less balls but doesn't muff many of them.
Here's hoping this makes a bit of sense after 3/4 of a bottle of wine...
9
blue hen Leader
ID: 22100300 Thu, Nov 14, 2002, 01:02
I used to be a fan of Range Factor, but then I realized that some teams have groundball pitchers, leading to a higher RF for infielders. Zone Rating is about as good as it gets.
Actually, I rather enjoy the batting title. While it's not really the best batter who wins, it's a concrete metric, with no dispute about who wins. Maybe the MVP (or HAA) should go to the OPS leader.
10
Mike Bordick
ID: 42842311 Thu, Nov 14, 2002, 11:13
Aren't all these voters forgetting about someone? I broke a record for good fielding this year and I feel I deserve a look for this Golden Glove stuff.
Aw, who am I kidding? As long as the O's stink, no one will ever pay attention to me.
11
Stuck in the Sixties Leader
ID: 12451279 Thu, Nov 14, 2002, 12:14
I think we need a most valuable fielder award (which Cecil might have won). Now we can throw stats out the window again and aruge that if the best fielder plays for a last-place team.....?
"We could have finished last without you, Ozzie."
12
Tree
ID: 599393013 Thu, Nov 14, 2002, 13:17
i'd like to cast my vote for the "Most Valuable Player Hitting Against a Left-handed Pitcher, During a Night Game, Played on Grass, When the Temperature is More Than Eighty Degrees."
this award shall be referred to as the MVPHALPDNGPGWTMTED Award, although i'm willing to accept it being called the Award.
peace, Tree alphabet soup
13
blue hen Leader
ID: 710321114 Thu, Nov 14, 2002, 18:42
I think Bagwell won that award. He had the benefit of extra 80+ degree days playing in Houston.
I agree on Bordick. But then again, he didn't hit 50 homers.
14
blue hen Leader
ID: 710321114 Thu, Nov 14, 2002, 21:08
I came across this and thought it would add to this discussion. My vote goes to JC Romero.
15
The Left Wings
ID: 1668298 Fri, Nov 15, 2002, 04:27
Why not Dotel? It seems obvious to me that Dotel is the best setup man this past season, followed by Hammond.
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