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Subject: qualified
Posted by: blue hen
- Leader [710321114] Thu, Dec 19, 2002, 11:49
Did anyone know that Moises Alou was the 2002 Major League Stolen Base Percentage Champion? He was 8 for 8, and that was the most attempts without being caught. However, Juan Gonzalez was 2 for 2. Does he really deserve to be listed above Eric Hinske, who was 13 for 14?
Where do you draw the line? That's what I'm asking Gurupies. Over 162 games, how many SB attempts should qualify to lead the league? I'm going to pro-rate it, so remember that in July, a player will only need half as many attempts to qualify.
What about save opportunities? |
1 | biliruben Sustainer
ID: 589301110 Thu, Dec 19, 2002, 11:57
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1 attempt every 6 games.
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2 | Toral Sustainer
ID: 2111201313 Thu, Dec 19, 2002, 12:13
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SB: 1 attempt every 12 games (14 in a season).
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3 | blue hen Leader
ID: 710321114 Thu, Dec 19, 2002, 12:31
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Where from (to both of you)?
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4 | Toral Sustainer
ID: 2111201313 Thu, Dec 19, 2002, 12:39
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North America. Where from you?
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5 | blue hen Leader
ID: 710321114 Thu, Dec 19, 2002, 12:48
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Dumbass. Notice how Americans say "Connecticut" or "Seattle" or "Atlanta" or "Iowa" but Canadians say "North America". I meant, where the huck are you coming up with those numbers?
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6 | biliruben Sustainer
ID: 5310281417 Thu, Dec 19, 2002, 13:22
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I thought you were asking our opinions.
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7 | blue hen Leader
ID: 710321114 Thu, Dec 19, 2002, 13:33
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I am. Why 6? And is that saves or steals?
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8 | Tree
ID: 599393013 Thu, Dec 19, 2002, 13:41
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BH - as far as steals go. just gauging the top 10 or so in stolen base leaders, these guys average just about 50 attempts a season. the best in these bunch was Derek "I got VD from Mariah" Jeter, who stole 32 bases in 35 attempts, for a whopping .914 percentage.
less than 50 guys last year stole more than 15 bases - which to me, is the absolute cut off line for speed. if you're not stealing 15 bases, you're not really a base-running threat.
some of those guys had less than 20 attempts. so i think you gotta go less than 20.
15 seems like a nice round number to me, but then you're eliminating someone like hinske. i think stolen base leaders, even in percentage, need to be people know for their speed. thusly, i'm going for 15 attempts.
peace, Tree
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9 | biliruben Sustainer
ID: 5310281417 Thu, Dec 19, 2002, 14:43
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No good reason. It just seems like if you are going to consider yourself a good base-stealer, you should try swipe one once a week, at least.
If you are only getting by on guile, by waiting for easy opportunities that come along once a month, instead of both guile and physical talent, you shouldn't consider yourself an elite base stealer.
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10 | blue hen Leader
ID: 710321114 Thu, Dec 19, 2002, 14:57
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I agree. I'll go with 15 on SBs.
Any thoughts on saves?
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11 | Whitey Sustainer
ID: 47130129 Thu, Dec 19, 2002, 15:02
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I think 15 would be a good number to use for saves also. If you look at the saves leaders, the top 28 all have 16 or more.
The Fat Toad is #28.
I could agree to making 20 the minimum for SBs, but 15 is ok.
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12 | Whitey Sustainer
ID: 47130129 Thu, Dec 19, 2002, 15:06
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Actually, if the SB attempt cutoff were 20, then that would eliminate true base stealing threats like Biggio, Stewart, Hinske etc. so I guess 15 is a good cutoff.
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13 | biliruben Sustainer
ID: 5310281417 Thu, Dec 19, 2002, 15:13
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Because of changing roles, roles that may differ by team or league saves is a bit more complicated.
If someone is in the closer role for half a season, should he qualify? A third? A quarter? Tough call. Of the top of my head, in this era, it seems like if someone has at least 20 save opportunities, luck would be a small enough factor to allow them a chance at the converted save % title.
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14 | Whitey Sustainer
ID: 47130129 Thu, Dec 19, 2002, 15:16
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oops..I was looking at saves and not save opportunities when I posted #11. Fat Toad had 20 save chances this season and he was probably at the bottom of the list of guys that should qualify for the save% title.
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15 | WiddleAvi
ID: 361032112 Thu, Dec 19, 2002, 15:35
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I want to know what happened to the days of Vince Coleman and Ricky Henderson stealing 100 bases a season ?? Now 50 SB will give you the title
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16 | Catfish Sustainer
ID: 5610392914 Thu, Dec 19, 2002, 15:58
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Canadians say they are from North America because they are. And also because "Americans" -- meaning USAans -- always say they are from America when they are in fact from the USA.
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17 | blue hen Leader
ID: 710321114 Thu, Dec 19, 2002, 16:11
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Thanks for the clarification, Catfish.
What if a guy goes 9 for 10 in saves. I definitely think 9 for 10 in SB is too few, but a guy who goes 9 for 10 at any time had to have been a closer of some sort.
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18 | biliruben Sustainer
ID: 5310281417 Thu, Dec 19, 2002, 16:34
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Yeah, he was likely a true closer for a short while. The question is, whether he might have gotten lucky with 7 or 8 three-run save opps where he gave up 2 runs but still managed to get the save, blew the only 1 run game and had 1 quality save.
When you start looking at closers who had the job for more opportunities, the types of chances (easy or hard) tend to even out.
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19 | blue hen Leader
ID: 331038201 Fri, Dec 20, 2002, 15:01
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Yeah, but would you see a guy like that on a "save percentage leaderboard"?
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20 | BZ
ID: 141151182 Sun, Dec 22, 2002, 17:21
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This is the greatest thread of all time.
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21 | Freewheelin' Otis
ID: 101015615 Mon, Jan 06, 2003, 15:24
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(Re post #8) Did Jeter REALLY get VD from Mariah? eeeeeaaawww! Guess that's one time he wishes he were thrown out before stealing home.
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