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0 Subject: A collective baseball video game wish list

Posted by: Doug
- Sustainer [3411223] Sun, Jan 26, 2003, 02:09

Hey guys, I started a new job recently working for a company who's developing "World Series 2K3" for PS2 and XBox. We're finishing up this year's game and starting to kick around ideas for next year... so I was wondering... is there anything missing from baseball video games that you wish they had?

#1 item on our list for next year is online, multiplayer capability... and being a fantasy geek I'm hoping that online, multiplayer franchise mode will be a possibility as well (I'm certainly advocating it, but there are many many factors that will determine what makes it in and what doesn't).

So with that in mind, does anyone have any ideas of things they'd like to see? It can be as big and general as the "online franchise" mode I described, or as detailed as "I'd like to have manual control over switch hitters, rather than them always lining up same handedness as the pitcher".

Dunno how many of you play these type of games, but if you do here's a great chance for me to get some ideas from you, and a great chance for you to get your idea into a game! Thanks in advance....
1Rogue Nine
      ID: 33050253
      Sun, Jan 26, 2003, 02:52
1) How about hitters able to hit any pitch. Not all the time of course. But when I found out in Triple Play 2001 that the computer couldn't touch a low-strike sinker, EVERY TIME, I ended up with 4 no-hitters in a row. Needless to say, the game got boring and I stopped playing it. I actually haven't touched another baseball game since, so my problem may already have been dealt with. Bottom line though, I want there to be the feeling that any hitter has at least a small chance of touching each pitch. The element of surprise has to exsist with each pitch in other words.

2) Roster updates! Nothing sucked more than playing with Javier Vazquez, who was en-route to a 3.00 ERA/1.05 WHP season while tearing up the league, and finding out his ratings have him pegged as one of the worst starters in the league. I know its harder to update a PS2/XBOX product, but if multiplayer is coming into action, patches should be possible too.

3) Can't really think of anything else, other than what you said: A really good franchise mode that continues on with drafts and free agency. Many games have tried to do this right, few have. Hard to judge you guys without seeing WS 2K3 though. :)
2Doug
      Sustainer
      ID: 3411223
      Sun, Jan 26, 2003, 05:20
I don't think you'd have an issue with point 1 in our game... this year OR last year. The CPU will pick up on your tendencies if you keep throwing the same pitch, and will make you pay for it!!!! Ok, maybe not if you're playing against the Devil Rays... =-) You can also adjust specific sliders, so if you want to tweak things beyond the default settings (Rookie, Pro, All-Star) you are able to do so. A couple examples of specific settings you can tweak include CPU pitching ability, CPU batting average, and CPU ability to tell balls from strikes.

As for point 2, at least for the XBox version I believe roster updates will be available via a "saved roster" which will be available on the disc which comes along with the official XBox magazine (don't quote me on that though, I'm not certain it's a done deal, but I think so). Just copy it to your memory card or hard drive, load the saved roster, and you're up to date. We're just a wee bit farther along on the XBox process there than we are with PS2, so I'm not yet sure if updates will be available on PS2 or how they will be distributed. Anyway, next year, with online capabilities, downloadable rosters should be readily available throughout the season on both platforms as trades are made (and minors players promoted/demoted, etc.). I'm not sure if the default "ratings" for each player will change during this season, but if not I'll definitely suggest it for next season... EXCELLENT idea.

Finally, as for #3, the game won accolades last year for having an innovative franchise mode that far surpassed anything previously available in a baseball game. Not only can you draft players, but you have to hire a 5-man coaching staff as well (and they count against your budget just like the players themselves do). This affects the development of both your big leaguers and your minor leaguers. Also a 5-man rookie draft (as well as free agency) every year to fill out your roster. Players can be signed for up to 7 years, but if a player is looking for a 4 year contract and you want him for 7, you'll probably have to offer him a higher amount per year, etc.... check it out! I think/hope you'll be pleased with it!
3Pimpski
      ID: 380552612
      Sun, Jan 26, 2003, 13:55
Is visual concepts developing this game? I owned 2k2 for a few months, but I can't remember what studio handled it. It's been a while since I played it, but I seem to remember not being very impressed with the graphics. I think the players were modeled well, but the crowd was terrible (2D cutouts). Also the play by play wasn't so hot. If you ever end up being involved with the basketball game, make sure you post here, because I have a ton of suggestions for that one.
4CanEHdian Pride
      Donor
      ID: 48936413
      Sun, Jan 26, 2003, 14:22
I think a nice addition to a baseball video game would be some sort of "mental monitor" on the pitcher. This would have varying sensitivity depending on the pitchers ranking in "mental stability" just like other rankings used to predict performance.

The mental meter, much like a fatigue meter, would change depending on defensive play (positive for really good ones, negatively for errors), upcoming batters and other factors such as this.

This would also bring a nice feature to the game of manager visits to the mound. In order to improve the pitchers "mental meter" the game player would have to visit the mound on certain occassions and have pitchers ready to go. "Mental meters" would also be "charged" in the bullpen. Therefore if a player with a week mental ranking doesn't get adequate time to warm up he will not perform at peak ability.

Just an idea that struck me which would mean the gamer would have to be more strategic while playing and allow the gamer command the manager/pitching coach to take a trip to the mound and thus making the overall experience more realistic.
5Doug
      Sustainer
      ID: 3411223
      Tue, Jan 28, 2003, 03:45
Interesting idea CP... we do have a bullpen where you warm up a pitcher before bringing him in the game. You can always substitute cold, but then his accuracy and velocity and movement won't be as good as usual for his first few pitches... and usually when you're bringing in a guy from the bullpen this is a luxury you don't have. On the other hand, if you get a guy up in the bullpen too early, then his stamina will already be down by the time he enters a game. Every pitcher has a stamina rating from 1 to 120 (# of pitches he can throw before becoming wildly inaccurate). For a pitcher of stamina 100, for example, his first 50 pitches might be solid, but then he'll start to "lose his stuff" a bit for pitches 51-80, and things will really start to tail off from pitches 81-100. I actually don't know the formula that is used off hand, I'm just using that as an example... the more pitches you've thrown (and the lower your initial stamina), the more your performance drops off. Basicaly what you're saying is to break stamina into both a mental and physical component, and keep track of the two seperately. That might be overly complex for the average consumer, but definitely something to consider. On the other hand, I think catcher/pitcher and manager/pitcher conferences are a great idea... it's just a matter of deciding how they would impact the game. You might be able to use them to buy some time for your bullpen to warm up... something like that. Thanks for the great thoughts!!!

Pimpski... Visual Concepts (Sega Sports) does produce the game, we (Blue Shift) are the studio that develops it. Yes, the crowd is 2D, but if you want a fully rendered 3D crowd that means you've got to take away memory and processing power that could have been spent on some other (presumably more critical) part of the game... most likely some part actually involved with the gameplay. That's not a sacrifice most consumers would want us to make. I appreciate the feedback though, and it sounds like you'll be happy to hear that this year we have a new commentary crew... Ted Robinson (from NY) and Rex Hudler (from LA).

Also, here's a link to some screenshots of this year's game
6culdeus
      Donor
      ID: 461027711
      Tue, Jan 28, 2003, 11:23
On a more philsophical note baseball games fail if they can't meet these three criteria.

1) User can't distinguish balls and strikes.
-Basically you are stuck swinging at every pitch because the release time vs. swing time is too small.
-The 2D/3D environment basically prevents total view of the ball flight, but slowing the pitches down always makes the game better. The "hardballs" were good at this.

2) Baserunning errors too easy.
-Combinations of buttons to move either all runners and just the lead runner should be intuitive.

3) Fielding deep fly balls.
-Running to the "dot" is no fun, neither is auto field.
-I'd push for a system where the fielder will move in the general direction until the user takes over. A growing/moving shadow is more fun.

I'm definately an old school gamer, baseball games have not progressed IMO in over 6 years, basically trading graphics for playability. I'd still take Hardball3 for the PC over any PS2/XBOX offering any day. NBALive is the first Basketball game to break out of the decline of non-football sports games. I hope you have the same success.
7AirSteve
      ID: 2411382319
      Wed, Jan 29, 2003, 20:02
CanEHdianPride - I'd love to see John Rocker's mental meter: "Is the reliever's head half full or half empty?"

Doug- How accurately can the players recreate real-life performances? I've played Strat-o-Matic Baseball for over 15 years, and it's Way over on the managing / GM'ing end of the spectrum, with no real player perspective at all. But the records and performances both in game and at the end of the year are typically very comparable to what the real players produced. Stat heads love that.
8tmm
      ID: 380122517
      Thu, Jan 30, 2003, 00:35
charging the mound, bench clearing brawls, ejections, less homeruns, fielding errors
9CanEHdian Pride
      Donor
      ID: 48936413
      Thu, Jan 30, 2003, 07:39
couldn't agree more on #2 and #3 culdeus.

Those are my two pet peeves, especially the baserunning errors.

I that fielding shots should be taken from over the shoulder of the player involved or from the point of view of where they are on the field. This would mean that the camera angle would have to switch after the ball is hit and the fielder with the best chance of playing the ball would have to be choosen but after that the game player would have a much better feel for how to play the ball.

I also have an idea for baserunning which involves using the joysticks on the analog pad as "basecoaches". But I haven't figured out all the details as to how it would work. Works fine until you start adding in more than one runner. I'll keep thrashing out alternatives in my head and hopefully with a combined effort we can rid the gaming world of ridiculous baserunning confusion!
10perk9600
      ID: 161111313
      Thu, Jan 30, 2003, 15:07
Anyone recommend a good franchise style game for PC? I don't do gaming systems.
11MNG@college
      ID: 117422015
      Thu, Jan 30, 2003, 16:17
Griffey Baseball for SNES (the original, not Winning Run) is my favorite baseball game of alltime. I do have to put in that being able to update rookies/trades/(injuries??)/diminished skills/improved skills as the season progresses is a much needed add.
12AdamH
      ID: 50113223
      Thu, Jan 30, 2003, 18:47
"Anyone recommend a good franchise style game for PC? I don't do gaming systems."


High Heat Major League Baseball
13beebop
      ID: 4411513114
      Fri, Jan 31, 2003, 03:11
Ive got High Heat Major League Baseball for PS2. It is a good game, but the most annoying part was if u had baserunners on 1st and 3rd, and try and steal 2nd base. The catcher would throw straight to 3rd and get him out. I could never get the guy back on base so he didnt get out.
14miguel p
      ID: 150161917
      Sat, Feb 01, 2003, 15:03
My #1 request for baseball games: More old teams/players available. Does anyone remember RBI 3 on the NES? They had all the division winners from 83-89 (in addition to all the 1990 teams, of course). That was a great idea, and I can't believe it isn't widely used these days. I really don't think it would be so difficult to accomplish -- players names, stats for the particular season in question, and skill ratings for the season in question can't possibly place a significant memory demand on the game. Graphically, if each player is composed of a selection from a group of heads, body sizes, etc. (like most create-a-players), then making the former players in the game loosely resemble their real-life counterparts is also only a matter of a handful of per player.

So unless there's something I'm missing (legal complications involving using likenesses of dead guys?), I don't see why this can't be added to any game. Adding the playoff teams or Wolrd Series winner from each year would be nice, or a "classic" version of each of the 30 teams (the 46 BoSox, the 55 Dodgers, the 93 Jays, the . . . uh . . . 01 Devil Rays) would also be attractive to real fans. This could be applied to the season/franchise mode by allowing players to fill their league with any of the available teams.

A couple other little bugs in most games that may or may not be present in the WS2K series, and which should be relatively easy to avoid:
- Too few fielding errors (wild throws to first, booted grounders, wild pitches don't happen often enough or at all in many games).
- Unrealistic pitcher usage by the CPU (they'll bring starters in out of the pen).
- CPU doing stupid things with players it gets in trades. E.g. you'll trade a great OF for a SP to a team with a crappy 3rd OF, but they won't put the better hitter in their lineup. Or in ASB 2001, if you traded a P for a hitter in the team's lineup, it would insert the pitcher in that player's spot in the batting order.
- OF arm strengths are usually way off. In some games you can't even think about scoring from 2nd on a deep single; in others you can always take an extra base.
- Pitch location is way too precise. I've played entire seasons without unintentionally walking anybody in some games.
- Following from the last point, pitch selection becomes totally unrealistic -- there's no such thing as "a fastball count" when you can get anything over for a strike. And rarely do CPU pitchers follow any kind of standard pitching logic like that.
15SillySpheres
      ID: 58512252
      Sun, Feb 02, 2003, 12:30
re 12:

Baseball Mogul without a doubt. Their game is unbelievable. You can manage everything about a team from how it develops its players to minor leagues to building new stadiums (and moving to another city if you wish) to how it generates revenues (by setting ticket / food / tv prices).

Baseball Mogul
16PuNk42AE
      Donor
      ID: 598521312
      Sun, Feb 02, 2003, 15:12
Actually Silly. Have you tried Out of the Park? I got OOTP4 and Mogul 2003 last year. Hands down I would say OOTP is better in almost every respect. You have a draft, A, AA, AAA. You make the moves on all the players. You sign coaches for everywhere. They have all the stats on the players, just don't have the correct names, must not have a deal with the Players association. But they are all in there. Just look at their birthday's and you can figure out who they are. I just got a email a few days ago saying that OOTP5 is coming out soon.
17Doug
      Sustainer
      ID: 3411223
      Sun, Feb 09, 2003, 14:26
Culdeus - (1) Pitch speed is a setting in World Series Baseball 2K3 (don't know about other games)... slow, medium, fast, or very fast. (2) I totally agree about the baserunning errors. While I think the system they are using this year is adequate, I'm hoping to convince them of a redesign for the baserunning controls next year. (3) In our game there is an outfield cursor, whoever as the ball curves in flight or is affected by wind, the cursor will move a bit, so you have to stay with it. You have the option of turning on/off an "auto-lock" feature, where if you get within a couple feet of where the ball is coming down then the fielder automatically stays put and makes the catch. I may suggest giving the user the option of turning off the cursor altogether (and perhaps use dynamic shadow size instead), but the problem with that is (a) at least with current camera angles we are using, ball shadow is not always on screen as it would require a very wide field of view to have fielder and player on screen (or zoomed way out) which is more of an arcade look/feel than a simulation look/feel. Also, (b) many users find judging the depth to be TOO challenging, so we certainly don't want to force the shadow-style approach on them (but perhaps make it an option).

AirSteve - Well, I guess I'd say it's "fairly" realistic, but if you look at someone like Rich Aurilia, what is realistic? Should he bat around .250 like he did last year? Or around .320 like he did the year before? There's no simple answer (at least to me), and you can't even say it should always be inbetween their past highs and lows because every year some players set new highs or lows in real life too. Really, every player is given a series of ratings (typically from 1-100) in a variety of areas (AVG, HRs, 2Bs, 3Bs, AVGvR, AVGvL, etc.) and based upon those ratings as well as the ratings of the pitchers that you face you determine what happens in a given at-bat (when running in simulation mode, not when the user is controlling the batter). If you play over a series of seasons, then young players with high potentials will tend to improve a lot, whereas older players will see their ratings diminish over time. How rapidly your young guns improve (or your veterans lose their touch) is also very dependent upon the coaching staff you have hired, as well as how you have those coaches spending your time (for example, the minor- league manager splits his time between "top prospects" and the "whole team", but you decide how much. You could set it so that he only spends time with the top prospects (or vice versa).

tmm - A player will charge the mound sometimes if hit by a batter, but the scene quickly ends before anything happens (you just see a step or two). Ironically, only a pitcher can be ejected (for hitting multiple batters), which is something I hope to have changed for next year. No bench-clearing brawls I'm afraid... I'll have to look into why but I assume it has something to do with either marketing it towards kids as well as adults or else just trying to stay away from a sensationalized arcade style. Still, as a simulation, it seems it should happen from time to time, and could be done in a relatively non- violent way. Something I hadn't thought to ask about. Anyway, as for errors, they are built in, and again you can tweak a setting to increase or decrease their frequency as you see fit.

Finally, miguel, I'm not sure the answer to your question regarding "classic teams". I know our series had more of them in past offerings (I believe on the dreamcast) but not our current offering... it certainly wouldn't seem diffiicult to include them, as you point out... maybe it's the licensing deal. I know in NFL 2K3 they got around this by leaving the players nameless for classic teams, but if you're playing with the '83 Raiders, odds are you know who #32 is (Marcus Allen for the football- challenged). As for your other points... errors are built- in but can be increased via a user-controlled game setting. Starters are not subbed in by the CPU. In fact, during the playoffs, it used to be you could use a starter every other game (Johnson/Schilling, for example) which is what the D'Backs did on occasion. But to have that repeat indefinitely is unrealistic, so I had that changed so that it's a minimum 3-man rotation for each team (during the season a 5-man rotation is used). As for trades, the CPU automatically optimizes its lineup after a trade. _Please_ don't compare us with All-Star Baseball!!! In fact, even EA admits (tacitly) that their game sucked... they scrapped the entire codebase and started from ground zero for their new game coming out this year. I believe OF arm strength varies a bit from player to player... I think this is one of those areas that will always need a bit of fine-tuning, but I think our game is pretty solid in this area. Great point on pitch location, we have a "variable pitching" feature (once again, adjustable by the user to turn this up, down, or off) that mimics the fact that even a MLB pitcher isn't perfect. Of course, at the same setting, Greg Maddux wouldn't have quite as much variation as John Rocker, but you get the idea. If you try and use the same pitches over and over, the AI will pick up on your tendencies. I'm sure if you spent enough time with it you could figure out a way to beat the AI (or even guess their likely pitch selection/location), but you'd have to have a lot more time on your hands than I do!

Thanks again for all the ideas/suggestions. I have to say that if you things like negotiating a budget and managing your coaches then you'll really enjoy our franchise mode. As for me, I love it... bidding on free agents, trying to lock in promising young players to long-term deals, deciding whether to focus your batting coach on improving contact, power, or plate discipline, whether to give your players time-off (thus improving their loyalty and willingness to re-sign) and so on.
18Doug
      Sustainer
      ID: 280133017
      Tue, Feb 11, 2003, 18:03
OK, so here's a big question... suppose a baseball game offered the ability to play season or franchise mode online against other online users (with or without an initial draft... up to the user to decide which he/she prefers). Assume the game was more or less similar to the other available PC or gaming console baseball games in terms of high-quality graphics, features, price, etc. but that it was the only game offering the online season/franchise feature.

(a) If you don't currently buy baseball video games, would this extra feature be enough to persuade you to buy the game?
(b) If you already own or expect to own a baseball video game, would this feature be important enough to make you buy this game over the one you played last year (or any other available version).

Basically, I'm just trying to get a feel for how big of a deal this would be to people and whether it would be worth the investment. As I see it, it's basically "virtual fantasy baseball", using game-generated stats rather than real-life stats (and obviously uses a game-by-game W-L record rather than roto or W-L based upon statistical categories).
19TaRhEElKiD @ school
      ID: 23030239
      Mon, Feb 17, 2003, 11:04
I realized that I have the TPKL approaching and felt like getting in baseball mode. I went out and bought All Star Baseball 2003 (by Acclaim Sports). I really like it (but you must do EASY batting and game on FAST mode). I am doing a franchise with the A's (can't trade til after the 1st gm), but here is my team:

1b:Delgado
2b:Soriano
SS;Nomar
3b:Chavez
OF:Berkman, Manny, Hunter
C:Josh Phelps
DH: Adam Piatt
SP: Pedro, Mulder, Oswalt, Beckett, Vazquez
Long Relief: I used David Cone
RP: Izzy and Ugi

The cool thing is...it is still a close game every time. I play on easy and I just won my last game 2-0 with Oswalt on the mound pitching a 9 inning shutout. You can throw any pitch that player does regularly, and a little bar shows you have much he has in the tank.

Although RE: #6-
#2 and #3 are a problem. #3 you can make your players be 100% manual which is fun...or the regular auto. I can't figure out how to send a lead runner and not the back runner (many times they end up on the same base). I also don't know how to steal which would mean more RBI's for my studs (I like seeing stat collection).

Good game...I am addicted, trying to get good stats for the studs.

THK
20rockafellerskank
      Sustainer
      ID: 450352512
      Mon, Feb 17, 2003, 11:12
Doug: Feel free to cash/deposit that check I sent your for football winnings. I won't "bounce" ;)

Did you not receive it by chance? I sent it 12/28!

rfs
21Doug
      Sustainer
      ID: 280133017
      Fri, Feb 21, 2003, 14:34
RFS - Problem is I moved in early/mid January, so it's probably in a box somewhere. I haven't really unpacked much because I've been working 60+ hour weeks, but the game's finally on its way out the door (though it'll probably be a few weeks for it to get published and distributed to stores). Sorry if I'm screwing up your checkbook! I'll try to find it and take care of it soon now that things have mellowed out a bit, although I'm helping out with a new game idea and if it gets picked up then it might be back to the crazy schedule again...
22Doug
      Sustainer
      ID: 280133017
      Fri, Feb 21, 2003, 14:42
THK - how on earth did you draft a team like that in franchise mode? You've got at least 4 first rounders and 5+ guys who are second/third/fourth rounders... either All-Star has terrible AI or there's something you're leaving out (like, it's only an 8-team league or something). And with an all-star team like that you're only winning games 2-0? Something seems fishy...
23beebop
      ID: 5212819
      Fri, Feb 21, 2003, 15:08
Nah...in ASB, if u make alot of 2-1, 3-2 etc. type trades, its very easy to get an all star team.
24TaRhEElKiD
      ID: 42109719
      Mon, Feb 24, 2003, 23:43
Doug-
On Franchise Mode I used the A's as my base team. I went a traded for these other players with 2 mid players for a good player and their worst team player. It took awhile to do it all, but it is fun. Soriano is a steal (rated as B-) and almost got MVP!

I don't know why I can barely win 2-0. It is hard to steal, and I swing at almost every pitch. Which means their pitcher is warm and not tired almost the entire game, and if you leave a pitch hanging...IT IS GONE. The RANGERS hit HOMERS every 5 seconds. I had a 15 inning game with them 18-19 (I lost on an Ivan Walk-off HR).

It's a fun game...They have all the awards also. Batting title, HR, RBI King, Cy Young, MVP's, All Star and others.

THK
25Steve Biz
      Donor
      ID: 101391018
      Tue, Feb 25, 2003, 18:49
On the topic of pitcher stamina: I like the fact that a pitcher tires over the course of some amount of pitches. However, I think that a pitcher should occasionally become "pumped up" after certain things happen or for certain situations. By pumped up I only mean that the pitcher brings a little bit extra in MPH and ball movement than he normally would be able to given his degree of tiredness. In real baseball, a pitcher will often come out with more power and more energy after his team scored a few runs in the last half. Or, you might notice a pitcher gear up for an important at bat. That should somehow be simulated in video game baseball. I'm sorry if I wasn't very clear. But I hope you catch my drift.
26Doug
      Sustainer
      ID: 3411223
      Sat, Mar 01, 2003, 21:54
This isn't exactly what you mentioned Steve, but in World Series Baseball (WSB) if you hit the A button to throw a pitch, it takes Z amount away from your stamina. But if you HOLD A, then it your pitcher "overthrows" and puts an extra couple MPH on the pitch. The consequence is that your stamina goes down a bit more per pitch... I don't know the exact amount, but say 1.25 x Z rather than just Z.

Our trades are also much more realistic in WSB. If you want to put together an all-star team like that, you can always just use the roster manager to edit rosters. I don't see much difference between that and the "trading" system (seems more like "stealing") that ASB appears to have.
27culdeus
      Donor
      ID: 4171112
      Mon, Mar 03, 2003, 12:13
Doug as to 18. From what I've heard the main issue there is the storage space to house all the stats and what nots regarding the leagues.

One thing I would think about with regards to online fantasy play is the ability to go ahead and back in time if two users are willing and able to play a game out of order. I realize with pitcher rotations this might be a problem but this should at least be an option for those leagues that could allow it. It would lead to less whining about auto-sims.

Just curious but is any 2KX title ever going to get to market before a season starts? Or is that just part of the plan?

28Doug
      Sustainer
      ID: 280133017
      Mon, Mar 24, 2003, 16:20
lol... we're already on store shelves! I think Xbox was on store shelves the 11th or 12th with PS2 a week later. We're the highest rated console baseball game again this year according to all the major game sites I've checked (IGN, Gamespot, Gamespy, etc.)

IGN's Review

A couple quotes from the above review...

"And perhaps I'm noting more flaws than I would in any other game. But that's because Sega and Blue Shift are so close to gaming perfection, it becomes hard not to nit-pick."

"World Series Baseball 2K3 is the best console baseball game I've ever played. If you love baseball, there is no other choice. Buy WSB 2K3 and if you have some extra cash, think about one of the other ballgames as a backup -- something to play once in a while for giggles. But set yourself aside a serious amount of time, because WSB 2K3 will take over your life for a good long while."
29Pimpski
      ID: 381351212
      Mon, Mar 24, 2003, 20:24
Congrats on the 9.1 from gamespot. I'll
probably buy it soon as I find a job.
30Tree
      Donor
      ID: 38249212
      Mon, Mar 24, 2003, 21:47
the review lacked one thing for me that you, Doug, may be able to explain a bit more. it raved about the Franchise mode, but then didnt say what made it so great. LOL.

can you offer details?

thanks,
Tree
31SupermanMC
      ID: 47002617
      Mon, Mar 24, 2003, 22:13
Doug, Is hitting done using the cursor, or is it timing and joystick based like MVP??? thanks
32Doug
      Sustainer
      ID: 3411223
      Tue, Mar 25, 2003, 04:24
Hitting is done one of three ways (your choice):

1. Timed (just timing, no cursor) 2. Cursor (default - timing and cursor) 3. "Power Pro" (timing, cursor, plus a power meter)

You can't "aim" a ball using the joystick directly, however for a right handed batter, if you swing a hair early you'll tend to pull it to left, if you swing late you'll tend to "push it" to the opposite field, etc. However, this also depends on the pitch location and the cursor location. If the ball is on the outer edge of the strike zone and your cursor is closer to the middle (but still close enough to make contact), you would tend to hit it to the right side since you swung a bit inside the pitch, etc. Basically, it's a much more realistic way of controlling where the ball goes, much more like real life. You can't effectively pull the ball if you swing a bit late or inside, but if you just use a cursor to aim it then you obviously will have control. Basically, I like the cursor (MVP) method if you are looking for a more acrade-style game, but our method if you are looking for a more realistic simulation.
33Doug
      Sustainer
      ID: 3411223
      Tue, Mar 25, 2003, 04:30
Tree - Don't mean to turn this into a marketing or self- promotion thread... really the whole idea here was to solicit ideas for improvement, etc.... but since you asked =-) ...here's a passage from the gamespot.com review which talks a bit more about franchise mode (sorry, I'm at home on my Mac now, and thus am unable to post links so I'm just posting the relevant text):

Devoted baseball buffs will love the franchise mode, where you control a team throughout a span of multiple seasons. World Series Baseball 2K3 has the deepest franchise mode of any baseball game. You're in charge of every aspect of your team. This includes drafting players, setting lineups, and making trades, as well as managing the disabled list, performing minor league call-ups, and deciding when to give your players some rest. Tired players don't perform as well in the field, so it's necessary to provide a day off once in a while. You have the option to specify the percentage of time off given to each member of your team, which the CPU can use to automatically adjust your lineup whenever a fatigued player takes a day off.

The franchise mode also captures the spirit of baseball as a business. During the season, your team's success will influence the number of spectators that come to see your team play. This in turn gives you a bigger budget to spend on free agents and to retain veterans who are in the final year of their contracts. In the off-season, you have a 10-day period within which to negotiate with free agents throughout the league. You can make multiple offers per day, but you won't know if a player has accepted or rejected your offer until the following day. In this fashion, you can negotiate with players, but the limited time frame challenges you to sign players before the deadline arrives.

Player loyalty is another new feature of World Series Baseball 2K3. If you make it to the playoffs, give your players plenty of time off, and tend to pay well, you'll have a better shot at signing a star player to an extension or getting an aging veteran to sign a cheaper contract. If your team does poorly, however, or you work your players to death, a star player may opt to test the free-agent market instead. Talk about in-depth.

In addition to paying the players you sign, you also have to spend money on the managers, coaches, and scouts that support your team. It costs more to hire a top-notch support staff, but their skill ratings play a considerable role in the quality of prospects you develop, as well as in the strength and stamina of your everyday players. Throughout the season, you have the option of modifying the areas that your staff members focus on. For example, if your pitchers are tiring out by the fifth inning, you can have your pitching coach spend less time working on velocity and more time on building up the stamina of your pitching staff. If a member of your staff doesn't do his or her job, you have the option of firing that person and trying to hire a replacement.

Even though the franchise mode in World Series Baseball 2K3 is more comprehensive than the franchise modes offered by other baseball games, it does have a few omissions that are worth noting. The minor league system has only one level, as opposed to the multitiered farm club system you'll find in 3DO's High Heat Major League Baseball 2004. The ability to participate in spring training games is also absent, which is disappointing since every other game currently available has this feature. Everything else you could want is here though: fictional rookies, retirements, weekly and postseason awards, HOF inductions, minor league development, historical statistics, statistical tracking in more than 88 categories, and so on. The franchise mode is truly a micromanager's dream come true.
34Whitey
      Sustainer
      ID: 4149189
      Tue, Mar 25, 2003, 09:12
MVP Baseball from EA is just as good if not better than WSB.

My advice would be to rent both games and see which one you like better.

Personally, I love MVP Baseball 2003 and that will be the only baseball game I play this season. It is actually fun to play, which has been missing from video baseball games for a long time.
35Rogue Nine
      ID: 26259244
      Tue, Mar 25, 2003, 09:16
Whitey, is that for PC or XBox?
36Whitey
      Sustainer
      ID: 4149189
      Tue, Mar 25, 2003, 10:10
I know it is out for the PS2 and XBOX. The graphics are actually better on the PS2 version, which is unusual because the XBOX generally has better graphics.

There have been times that I have been playing the game and somebody comes in the room (girlfriend, friend, whoever) and they can't believe I am playing a video game because it looks so real. The gameplay is great also.

The only complaints about the game are that you can only do a 1-person franchise and when creating players they only give you 5-letter first names and 7-letter last names.

The batter-pitcher interface is amazing and it is so much fun whether you are batting or pitching. Total control.
37SupermanMC
      ID: 47002617
      Tue, Mar 25, 2003, 12:48
the only thing i didn't like about MVP, is you can't get online and download updated rosters :(
38Punk42AE
      Donor
      ID: 598521312
      Tue, Mar 25, 2003, 15:18
Yeah I love MVP too. Franchise mode is actually worth while and your working for something.
39Doug
      Sustainer
      ID: 280133017
      Tue, Mar 25, 2003, 17:37
Just out of curiousity, I'm wondering why it is you feel MVP is better (since most major game sites rates WSB higher). Below is a sample from the 3 major websites and 2 of the 3 major magazines (don't have Official XBox Magazine numbers, but I'm pretty sure they are in our favor).

source console WSB MVP
Electronic Gaming Monthly Magazine both 8.0 6.7
gamespot.com Xbox 9.1 7.8
gamespot.com PS2 8.9 8.0
gamespy.com Xbox 8.5 8.7
gamespy.com PS2 8.4 8.5
IGN.com Xbox 9.1 8.5
IGN.com PS2 9.0 8.5
Official Playstation Magazine PS2 8.0 7.0
average 8.63 7.96


Not saying you're wrong, it's a matter of opinion and taste. And as for franchise mode, read any review and the consensus is that ours is the franchise mode to beat. Don't want to turn this into a pissing contest, but I'm just curious why you think MVP is better (other than it's EA and they have better marketing) since the general consensus amongst the so-called experts is otherwise. I genuinely want to hear what elements of their game make it preferable in your view.
40grEEr
      ID: 190511015
      Tue, Mar 25, 2003, 18:12
If you want your game to be a good model it after the ASB games (All Star Baseball).

Far and away the best game every made is ASB 2001 for the N64 (with expansion pack to add to the graphics) I never get sick of that game and am still currently playing it.

I made the mistake of getting DreamCast and the Baseball games for it just plain suck (over all the 2k games are a success like football and basketball)....but i am well skeptical about buying another system untill I see prven quality in the sports game.

What are some good PC baseball games? I'm intrested in the multiplayer aspect and am considering High Heat '04 does anyone know if it's any good?
41Rogue Nine
      ID: 26259244
      Tue, Mar 25, 2003, 18:27
Gamespot really knocked it, giving it only 6.7... I'm pretty dissapointed by that, since I don't have an Xbox or PS2. PC baseball games are few and far between, and its been a while since a really good one came by.
42Doug
      Sustainer
      ID: 280133017
      Tue, Mar 25, 2003, 18:29
I'll have to check out ASB 2001 for N64, I read and old review and it sounds like a good game with some interesting features that I'd like to check out (such as being able to try and slide around a tag). As for their current offerings, however, their average score on the above chart this year would be around 7.56.
43Great One
      Donor
      ID: 41136511
      Thu, Mar 27, 2003, 11:30
FWIW
Game Informer reviews...
for PS2
World Series Baseball 6.75
MVP Baseball 9.25
44Whitey
      Sustainer
      ID: 4149189
      Thu, Mar 27, 2003, 11:52
Doug - I think it's almost an intangible thing that makes MVP more fun to play. I'm not saying that WSB2K3 is not a great game, it is.

Just personal preference that makes me like MVP 2003 a little better.

And I have hated all the recent baseball offerings from EA Sports so I wouldn't consider myself a fanboy.

From a development perspective, I don't that there was much more you could do to improve WSB. I think it is a very complete product that "covers all the bases". (sorry for the bad pun)
45Doug
      Sustainer
      ID: 280133017
      Thu, Mar 27, 2003, 16:33
I'm relatively new to the gaming industry, so I'm learning new stuff every day. It turns out that GameRankings.com does exactly the type of thing I was trying to do above... takes reviews from major sites and magazines and compiles them into an aggregate score, so that you can't just point to one score as being representative. It actually takes scores from some lesser-regarded soucres (at least with in the game industry) So, if you were to look at "Game Informer", you'd say "MVP is better", but they gave us the lowest rating of any website or magazine (6.75 for our PS2 version). Depends if you believe in the exception or the rule (and makes me wonder if they aren't somehow affiliated with EA). =-) Anyway, I think it's interesting to look at the whole picture...

WSB 2K3 - XBX - 90%
MVP - XBX - 83%
High Heat - XBX - 82%

WSB 2K3 - PS2 - 85%
MVP - PS2 - 82%
High Heat - PS2 - 81%

Like I said, it's interesting, but I agree with Whitey that ultimately it comes down to your intangible personal preference. But for us in the industry, the ratings (and to a lesser extent sales) are the only things we have to go by, and we're happy to have the highest rated baseball sim game (overall, that is, there are always one or two exceptions) for the second year running (last year we only shipped an Xbox game, but it was tops on that platform).

It's not just the ratings we look at, we definitely READ the reviews... and take note of what areas they think we are weak in. The only other feedback we get are from users via message boards and such, which is why I was posting here and hoping to get something more substantive on why you liked MVP better. If you can't come up with anything then that's cool. Just looking for new ideas on ways to improve. =-)

This morning I finally got my hands on the copy of MVP that had been floating around the office... I had seen it (other guys playing) but hadn't played it. I spent 30 minutes with it and compiled a list of things I like and don't like about it... some of the immediate obvious ones are that I don't like how sort of dark and blurry it is (compared it side-by-side to WSB, both games running on Xbox), but I do like the relatively fluid animations (except sometimes on fielders throwing awkwardly and especially on double-plays). Animations are definitely an area that we (WSB) are planning on improving next year. I also don't like how far away the camera is from the action in the field... it feels like I'm playing "SmallBall" (if you're familiar with that online game). It sort of has an Ant-Farm feel to it. The throwing meter for pitching is pretty cool, though I'd like it to be optional (or if it is I just didn't find the setting for that quickly and easily)... it gets old after a while. I don't like the throwing meter in the field... seems pretty pointless as I am able to get it pretty much at full every single time without any problems. It makes more sense to me to have an accuracy meter than a power meter for outfield throws... in real life if a player wants to throw it hard, he can throw it hard. What he can't always do is throw it accurately (which is why we use a random factor based upon that player's throwing rating as well as the difficulty sliders in order to determine the accuracy of each throw. I think this gets down to a basic difference in philosophy... in ours the key thing is strategy (which base do you throw to, etc.) whereas in MVP it's based more on the meters. That's definitely a "taste" issue. The one last thing that I think might make MVP seem a bit more exciting to play is the crowd audio... they had some great chants going, etc. Our crowd seems a bit subdued to me (more realistic perhaps, but that doesn't always make for a better game!) So that's another area that we're looking to improve in next year. Those are the types of feedback I'd love to hear from others.
46Great One
      Donor
      ID: 41136511
      Thu, Mar 27, 2003, 18:23
my favorite three things I noted while playing MVP today...

the crowd chanting "OVER-RATED" when Griffey, Jr was at the plate...

My pitcher being leveled by a line drive and still catching it.

and the "Intervene" button when simming games is absolutely genious. If I don't feel like playing the Brewers in a 4 game series - and who would?!... I start to sim - until I realize they are up 3-2 in the 7th so I decide to intervene and finish them off... I can play an entire series in ten minutes. That was always my biggest problem with Baseball seasons... they go on forever like in real life.
47SupermanMC@home
      ID: 502572616
      Fri, Mar 28, 2003, 03:09
i haven't rented WSB yet, but i did think MVP was fun, they playablility was good. and i'm not a big fan of cursor hitting. i'm going to rent WSB and see what i think...wanna send me a complimentary copy??? ;)
48Whitey
      Sustainer
      ID: 4149189
      Fri, Mar 28, 2003, 09:51
Doug - I do think it's great that we have an insider on these boards who we can bounce ideas off of. Sometimes I think that these video game companies have people programming the games that don't know a thing about the game they are programming. Meaning, I think it is good that you can relate to regualr gamers and get a feel for what they like and dislike. You also sound like you actually play the games. I'm telling you sometimes I wonder if the developers even play the games that they make because there always some ridiculous bugs that you would think would be so obvious to the developer.

Anyway, I'm rambling. I agree with most of your thoughts on MVP except I do not get sick of the meter system. I actually like it better than the old tap a button to throw. That's just me.

I didn't notice any lack of quality in the graphics dept for MVP, but I guess if I had both games running side by side I might see what you are saying.

Keep up the good work.
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