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Subject: Funny questions I have about baseball
Posted by: Chuck
- Donor [550322311] Sun, Apr 13, 2003, 14:08
I figured this might be a fun Sunday afternoon discussion.
Two that come to mind for me right away:
Why do they throw the ball around the infield after a strike out? Is it just to keep all the fielders awake? ;)
Why do the managers wear uniforms in baseball (whereas coaches in other sports don't)? My thought is that it might deal with the player/manager idea, like Pete Rose in the 80's. Personally, I like the uniformity, but it's hard to think of Phil Jackson or Pat Riley suiting up in their current threads while coaching.
I'm sure more questions will come up as the discussion keeps going. |
| Only the 50 most recent replies are currently shown. Click on this text to display hidden posts as well. |
| 43 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 10261612
Sun, Apr 13, 2003, 23:41
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J, you are absolutely right. I just looked it up and it did say no error would be charged. I guess my fielding % as a catcher was much higher then i was credited with. :)
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| 44 | Tim G
Donor
ID: 522463016
Sun, Apr 13, 2003, 23:45
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Does anybody besides Joe Morgan call a "slider" a "slide piece"?
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| 45 | Perm Dude
Leader
ID: 253421321
Sun, Apr 13, 2003, 23:49
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Why did they let Harry Carey go on so long?
If the Scooter is such an institution in New York, why is no one there bothered by the fact that he leaves every game after the seventh inning to beat the traffic over the bridge?
pd
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| 46 | C.C. SOLDIERS
ID: 311292118
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 00:33
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Why run around the bases when you hit a home run?
Waste of time!!!
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| 47 | steve houpt
ID: 32428300
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 00:52
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J #42.
You are right a passed ball is not counted as an 'error' against the catcher, but for earned runs:
Ruke 10.18
An earned run is a run for which the pitcher is held accountable. In determining earned runs, the inning should be reconstructed without the errors (which include catcher's interference) and passed balls .........
Easy to see why you would think 'passed balls' are errors. They basically are, just called passed balls.
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| 48 | steve houpt
ID: 32428300
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 00:59
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Chuck #2. Wild pitches and passed balls are not errors, correct?
If that's true, why aren't they errors?
=================
10.14 (f) Because the pitcher and catcher handle the ball much more than other fielders, certain misplays on pitched balls are defined in Rule 10.15 as wild pitches and passed balls. No error shall be charged when a wild pitch or passed ball is scored.
10.15 (a) A wild pitch shall be charged when a legally delivered ball is so high, or so wide, or so low that the catcher does not stop and control the ball by ordinary effort, thereby permitting a runner or runners to advance. (1) A wild pitch shall be charged when a legally delivered ball touches the ground before reaching home plate and is not handled by the catcher, permitting a runner or runners to advance. (b) A catcher shall be charged with a passed ball when he fails to hold or to control a legally pitched ball which should have been held or controlled with ordinary effort, thereby permitting a runner or runners to advance.
===============
Also:
10.18 [1] A wild pitch is solely the pitcher's fault, and contributes to an earned run just as a base on balls or a balk.
============
Why? They made the rules.
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| 49 | steve houpt
ID: 32428300
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 01:31
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Mike D #1 - Why does the pitcher throw off a mound as opposed to flat ground? I believe because there was nothing that said they couldn't when game started [see below].
rsf #14. Why is homeplate 60'6" from the mound? If geometry serves me, the mid point between home & 2nd base is 63' 7.67532" RSF, your geometry serves you right. Could say, give them a little more time, they might get there, but I doubt it.
> 1881. Pitchers box [6' x 6'] moved from 45' to 50' from home plate.
> 1886 Pitchers box changed to 4' x 7'.
> 1887 Pitchers box changed to 4' x 5.5'
> 1893 Pitchers distance lengthened to 60'6" and marked by a rubber slab 12" long and 4" wide. The bat must be completely round [but you can still say he hit it 'squarely' :)] They quit moving it back at 60'6".
> 1895 Pitchers rubber enlarged to 24" x 6". Max diameter of bat increased from 2.5" to 2.75".
> 1903 Pitchers mound MUST NOT be higher than 15" above base lines and homeplate [I'm guessing teams figured out throwing 'down' at the batter was an advantage and teams started building 'mounds' for pitchers. There was nothing against it in the rules. Rule added limiting 'mound' to 15"].
1969 Pitchers mound lowered to 10".
==========
NOTE:
1883 Error charged to pitcher for WP or catcher for PB.
1887 No error charged to pitcher for WP or catcher for PB.
1888 Back to error.
1889 Back to no error.
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| 50 | steve houpt
ID: 32428300
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 01:40
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Mike D #1 - Why does home plate look different than the other 3 bases? It didn't until 1900.
1900 Home plate changed from a 12" square to a 5-side figure 17" wide.
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| 51 | steve houpt
ID: 32428300
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 01:55
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From FAQ About Baseball Terms
rsf #7 - Why is a "bull pen?" Wouldn't "pitcher pen" be more accuarte?
In the early days of baseball advertisements adorned nearly every part of the ballparks, especially the outfield walls. One of the advertisers was Red Bull tobacco. Often the Red Bull tobacco ad was in the area where teams kept their relief staff. The term "bullpen" most likely came from the ads lining the walls of the "bullpens" themselves.
sean #21 - Why is the matchup between the National League champion and the American League champion called the World Series? The 'media', of course.
As early as the 1880's post-season series between league champions were sometimes referred to as the "World's Championship" or "World's Series of Games." When the American League and National League officially agreed to play each other at the end of each season in 1905, the term was used by most sportswriters. It was most often called the "World's Series," but the "s" was dropped and by the 1920's the label "World Series" was in place.
Almost immediately the series was also called the "Fall Classic."
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| 52 | Chuck
Donor
ID: 550322311
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 01:57
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The Source is coming through with answers to all of our crazy questions :-)
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| 53 | steve houpt
ID: 32428300
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 02:14
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Chuck - great idea for a thread.
Had to go looking for this one. Had no clue. You know it's to 'stretch', but why between half innings in the 7th? Appears no one really knows for sure.
7th inning stretch
The seventh inning stretch is a time honored baseball custom in which the fans ritualistically stand and stretch before their team comes to bat in the seventh inning. This is done not only to relieve muscles that have begun to stiffen, but also to bring luck to one's team (perhaps from the association of the #7 with good luck)
Unfortunately the exact origin of the custom is lost in the earliest days of the game. Baseball historian Dan Daniel is quoted by Zander Hollander (baseball lingo, 1967) :"It probably originated as an expression of fatigue and tedium, which seems to explain why the stretch comes late in the game instead of at the halfway point."
The earliest reference that has surfaced appears in an 1869 letter from Harry Wright of the Cincinnati Red Stockings to a friend: "The spectators all arise between halves of the seventh inning, extend their legs and arms and sometimes walk about. In so doing they enjoy the relief afforded by relaxation from a long posture upon hard benches."
The most popular story of its origin is also the most colorful. It was created in 1910 when President William Howard Taft, on a visit to Pittsburgh, went to a baseball game and stood up to stretch in the seventh inning. The crowd, thinking the Chief Executive was about to leave, stood up out of respect for the office.
The term itself can be traced back no further than 1920.
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| 54 | Chuck
Donor
ID: 550322311
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 02:27
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Another one I've thought before: What exactly are Montreal "Expos"
OK, I'm really going to bed now.
I only started 3 threads today :-)
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| 55 | Gary
ID: 263261115
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 02:38
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Chuck you couldn't call them the rainbows;)LOL even though it may have been more fitting considering all the tears fans have shed over the years.
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| 56 | Punk42AE
Donor
ID: 598521312
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 05:47
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A "Seeing Eye single"?
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| 57 | RDELMO
Donor
ID: 6112012
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 07:22
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On an appeal play when a runner tags up early and is challenged by the opposing team, then called out by the umpire, why doesn't the umpire just call him out if he already knows. And better yet if no one appeals the play the umpires knowing let the offense cheat and get away with it.
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| 58 | Thirst Quencher
ID: 47241917
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 07:41
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what are stirrups for?
Will a batboy one day become a batman?
Why at the start of a game, the throw from home
to second called "coming down"? It goes straight across.
What's it mean when they say "He's in a pickel?
What's taking one for the team? Really, what the
heck is that about.
Will MLB be out if they strike 3 times?
What does around the horn mean?
Why does Barry Bonds bat with more gear than the catcher wears?
What's a shortstop? They play just as close any infielder, maybe they planed to put a base between
second and third for runners to make a short stop.
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| 59 | Thirst Quencher
ID: 47241917
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 07:52
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Just a question.
Is the current Russian Roullette champion undefeated? I haven't been watching lately.
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| 60 | Thirst Quencher
ID: 47241917
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 08:19
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What do foul balls smell like?
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| 61 | Catfish
Sustainer
ID: 35262811
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 09:20
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#54, Chuck, the Expos began in the same year that the city of Montreal hosted the World Exposition. That year was [year to be inserted here by steve houpt].
Would be like calling your team the Athens Olympics or the Atlanta Masters.
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| 62 | Matt G
ID: 43047610
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 09:25
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As for the one, RBIs... It's weird, a person can have 1 RBI in a game, meaning RBI is Run Batted In. But 2+ and it should still be RBI for 'Runs Batted In' when you see RBIs that's technically incorrect.
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| 63 | Chuck
Donor
ID: 550322311
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 10:08
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Finally one I know about!
This is a short version:
Around the Horn is a sailing term used for getting from the Atlantic to the Pacific Ocean (pre Panama Canal). They had to go "around the horn" to get where they were going.
To confirm my info on this one, I found this website advertising a book about baseball terminology. It's called The New Dickson Baseball Dictionary.
Some more info from that site:
Another sailing term:
"If a batter is "in the hold" he is second in line (behind the 'on deck' batter) waiting for his chance to face the pitcher."
As for dialing 8:
"For example, a home run is also a "see ya," a "gopher ball" and a "dial 8" (in honor of players on the road calling the long distance operator)."
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| 64 | Zio
ID: 13255303
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 10:16
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Re: #21
Why is it called the World Series when it's almost always played at Yankee Stadium?
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| 65 | cancermoon
ID: 2239719
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 10:20
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re #21
because America calls everything that only they are involved in a "World Series" as the American Continent is the only Continent on the planet that deserves inclusion as "World".
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| 66 | Thirst Quencher
ID: 47241917
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 10:55
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Ok, maybe post #60 was not necessary, Just thought
it was funny. Is that too R rated? If it is then sorry.
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| 67 | Matt G
ID: 43047610
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 11:06
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Actually I didn't even think about it that way, LOL. I guess Foul Balls smell like Fair Balls, or even Fast Balls. I guess all hard balls smell the same. Never really sniffed a baseball, though...I could get really bad here, so I'll just quit ;-)
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| 68 | Gary
ID: 263261115
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 11:52
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Add on to #60: What do foul ball's really say that is so foul;)
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| 69 | paul
ID: 323471010
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 12:21
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heres a real question -- if a player has a hitting streak going and comes into a game (to play defense for example) but doesnt get an AB for whatever reason, does his hitting streak end?
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| 70 | Thirst Quencher
ID: 47241917
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 13:21
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Oooo!? Good question paul.
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| 71 | Razor
Donor
ID: 411149818
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 14:16
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Re: 69 - I don't think so. I think you need an official AB.
I think post 57 is the only post in this thread that brings up a relevant point. Good question.
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| 72 | Strike One @ skool
ID: 12333147
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 14:51
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re: 69
I always thought that if a player had a hit streak of any kind going and he was scratched for a game, then his streak would end, since he did not get a hit in the game he sat out.
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| 73 | Farn
Donor
ID: 4710402716
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 14:54
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you can definately sit out a game and not have the streak end. that i am sure of.
but i also believe if you enter a game for defense and never bat your streak ends. but i could be wrong on that one.
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| 74 | steve houpt
ID: 32428300
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 14:59
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57 - my answer. The runner is not out if the bag he left early is not tagged. You can leave anytime you want, just have to return before bag is tagged by fielders.
But my question. Can the fielding team just throw to the bag like they do when the double someone off on a hit and run fly/line out? A runner leaves first on a fly and the ball is thrown back to first before he returns and he is out. On a play where the runner is tagging up, can you just throw to third and will ump call him out? Is appeal play only required after the play at the plate if time is called before you throw to third? Then you have to wait until play is resumed [ump tells pitcher 'play ball'] and he has to step off rubber and 'appeal'? Isn't appeal play just a continuation of that process after play resumes?
Not sure of all of the above, but it appears that way.
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| 75 | Matt G
ID: 43047610
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 15:03
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RE: 57
The umpire is not allowed to make a call to assist either team. It's a matter of if he calls it once and not again, its like cheating more that way. For him to say, he didn't touch the bag he is out, is like him picking sides. It's hard to explain, I'm sure Steve "The Source" Houpt might have the official ruling, I may be able to find it later, but I have a ton of things to finish before i leave for the day, making it look like i actually did something
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| 76 | steve houpt
ID: 32428300
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 15:10
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Farn - MLB Official Scorer
1024 [b] Consecutive-Game Hitting Streaks: A consecutive-game hitting streak shall not be terminated if all the player's plate appearances (one or more) results in a base on balls, hit batsman, defensive interference or a sacrifice bunt. The streak shall terminate if the player has a sacrifice fly and no hit. The player's individual consecutive-game hitting streak shall be determined by the consecutive games in which the player appears and is not determined by his club's games.
=========\
You could even start the game and walk ALL four times and your streak would not end.
Razor's official AB is a plate appearance that counts as an AB for Batting Average or a SAC FLY.
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| 77 | paul
ID: 323471010
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 15:44
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heres another one for ya. how come a sac fly counts as an AB and an out for computing on base percentage, but not for batting avg?
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| 78 | RDELMO
Donor
ID: 6112012
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 15:56
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Matt, hopefully the source can shed some light, because I'm still in the dark on this one. To me the umpire's job is to watch every aspect of a play and make a call on any result or violation seen. How many other calls are left up to an appeal, stuff like checking for pine tar, or pitchers scratching balls (base balls)maybe, but not results of an actual play. If a ball goes foul or fair its called as such, if a player is tagged out its called, and if the ball is dropped on a tag its called, if a player goes out of the base path its called. Maybe its my ignorance but I just don't get it.
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| 79 | steve houpt
ID: 32428300
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 16:00
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This is actually a little confusing.
It reads like it is actually an appeal on the fly to the outfield and the runner is trying to get back, but the call is obvious.
7.10
Any runner shall be called out, on appeal, when_ (a) After a fly ball is caught, he fails to retouch his original base before he or his original base is tagged; "Retouch," in this rule, means to tag up and start from a contact with the base after the ball is caught. A runner is not permitted to take a flying start from a position in back of his base. (b) With the ball in play, while advancing or returning to a base, he fails to touch each base in order before he, or a missed base, is tagged.
(1) No runner may return to touch a missed base after a following runner has scored. (2) When the ball is dead, no runner may return to touch a missed base or one he has left after he has advanced to and touched a base beyond the missed base.
Any appeal under this rule must be made before the next pitch, or any play or attempted play.
==========
But ---
==========
5.11 - After the ball is dead, play shall be resumed when the pitcher takes his place on the pitcher's plate with a new ball or the same ball in his possession and the plate umpire calls "Play." The plate umpire shall call "Play" as soon as the pitcher takes his place on his plate with the ball in his possession.
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steve - I take it if the ball is not dead you could throw right to 3rd and 'appeal'. Once ball is dead, it does not come back into play until pitcher steps on rubber. Then you continue last play and appeal. ???
==========
Still not sure I'm reading it 100% 'correct'. Have at it yourself at MLB Rules - base runner
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| 80 | steve houpt
ID: 32428300
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 16:04
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RDELMO - that's about the best light I can shed. And it's still a little foggy.
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| 81 | Go Easy
Donor
ID: 2237147
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 16:05
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#74 sounds right on that answer. Also 78 - a sac fly does not count as an AB. Could someone please respond to this question: I see where TSN is giving Jose Cruz a caught stealing in last nights game. I didn't watch it all that close but did see the play where SF pitcher picked to first when Cruz broke for 2nd, LoDuca dropped the ball trying to throw to 2nd and Cruz was safe. Was there another play where he was caught stealing? Seems to me that he should have been credited with a SB on that play. Don't you get a SB when a catcher drops the ball on a steal? Sorry for posting in 3 different threads but I have had no response.
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| 82 | Go Easy
Donor
ID: 2237147
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 16:09
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Oops that should read 77 - a sac fly is not counted as an AB
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| 83 | Go Easy
Donor
ID: 2237147
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 16:13
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Never mind my question JK answered in another thread.
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| 84 | steve houpt
ID: 32428300
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 16:20
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paul #77. SAC FLY. That's another one that has changed back and forth since the beginning of baseball. Personally I think the 'last' change was a mistake. They tried to get it 'right' twice [way it started], but kept switching back.
I don't know why no one came up with a 'Sacrifice Grounder' when a run scores? They are assuming a batter hit the 'fly' rather than try and get a hit. Some batters can hit a 'Sac Grounder' to the right side to score a run.
I think a SAC FLY has always [as long as they have kept OBP] counted in OBP. Just has flip flopped in Batting Avg as far as counting as an 'AB'.
Started in 1908 - Batter credited with a SF and not charged with a time AB if he hits a fly ball which is caught, but a runner scores on catch.
Got worse in 1926 - Batter credited with a SF and not charged with a time AB if he hits a fly ball which is caught, but a runner advances on catch.
1931 - Batter no longer credited with SAC FLY.
1939 - Batter credited with a SF and not charged with a time AB if he hits a fly ball which is caught, but a runner scores on catch.
1940 - Batter no longer credited with SAC FLY.
1954 - Batter credited with a SF and not charged with a time AB if he hits a fly ball which is caught, but a runner scores on catch.
And that's where they quit [on the wrong flop IMHO]
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| 85 | Bandos
ID: 422571916
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 16:23
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Why is a sac fly where the runner advances to third not counted as a sac fly?
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| 86 | Go Easy
Donor
ID: 2237147
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 16:30
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I only go back to 1970, so that's why I said a sac fly is not counted as an AB. I don't know the answer as to why it is only a sac fly if they score. Good point about a sac ground out. A bunt always counts as a sac if successful and the score keeper deems it was not an attempted bunt for a hit. Worked to my advantage all throughout high school and college. Hit 2nd and had many opportunity to bunt for a hit. If it didn't work, no AB and moved the runner up.
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| 87 | paul
ID: 323471010
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 16:32
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re: #81 loduca was playing first, not catching, at the time. they ruled that the pitcher had cruz picked off first but loduca dropped the throw. cruz ran to 2nd as the throw was made and hence got there safely. but i think it should be a SB and not a CS too.
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| 88 | RDELMO
Donor
ID: 6112012
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 16:34
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Steve, thanks, in your explanation a rule is mentioned I never gave thought to. A runner is not permitted to take a flying start from a position in back of his base. Wow how cool would that be...Could you picture a runner on third backing up about 15 feet on a fly, then high tailing it trying to time the catch with stepping on the bag...That would be some awesome.
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| 90 | Go Easy
Donor
ID: 2237147
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 16:41
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re #87 This is the answer JK gave me. I know LoDuca wasn't catching but is there a different standard/rule for a 1B dropping a ball on an attempted steal rather than a catcher? I'll buy the below answer but would assume it would apply to catchers as well.
Go Easy,
I wondered the same thing myself this morning, so I did some research and found the official rules at www.mlb.com. According to rule 10.08.f:
When in the scorer's judgment a runner attempting to steal is safe because of a muffed throw, do not credit a stolen base. Credit an assist to the fielder who made the throw; charge an error to the fielder who muffed the throw, and charge the runner with "caught stealing."
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| 91 | paul
ID: 323471010
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 16:42
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wouldnt the answer to the tagging up quetion simply be:
in order for the runner who left base early to be "out", the defensive team has to tag him out or tag his original base. The only time they do this is if they are appealing the play. The umpire can't just say "Well he isn't on the base so I am going to assume you would have tagged him, therefore he is out". Basically the ump can't call him out because he isn't out unless the defense forces him out.
This is just my thinking.
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| 92 | beastiemiked
Sustainer
ID: 3531815
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 17:10
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On a game-winning hit when is the play considered dead, after the runner scores and the batter reaches first safely? If 2 runners cross the plate before the batter reaches first do both runs count? Does a batter get credited with a double on a ground rule double that scores the winning run?
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| 93 | Strike One
ID: 356372421
Mon, Apr 14, 2003, 20:54
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re:92
a) i would say the play would be dead if/when the runner reached first base. If there were two outs, and the potential winning run scored, but moments after the runner was forced out at first, it would still be a third out and no run scored.
b) not sure about this one, I would say yes, both runs would count.
c) Yes, just like a batter gets credit for walk off Home Run.
Of course it is only required that the winning run scores and all other runners safely reach their next base. sorta like Robin Ventura's walk off Grand Slam single a few years back in the postseason, when his teammates mobbed him inbetween first and second base.
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