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Subject: Pitchers' Throwing Motion
Posted by: The Left Wings
- [6142019] Tue, Aug 19, 2003, 23:07
I noticed that there are several pitchers like Chad Bradford who throw the ball in an "underarm" style. Tonight, I saw on the highlights that Bradford almost hit the ground before he let go of the ball. Is that really allowed? It seems to be hard for hitters to adjust to this kind of motion. |
| 1 | Skidazl
Leader
ID: 4039259
Tue, Aug 19, 2003, 23:36
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ummmmm, this is a joke of some sort, right?
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| 2 | The Left Wings
ID: 6142019
Tue, Aug 19, 2003, 23:41
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What, you've never seen it before?
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| 3 | Skidazl
Leader
ID: 4039259
Tue, Aug 19, 2003, 23:44
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ok, i'll bite just to see where this is heading... ;-)
the whole motion is supposed to throw off the batter's rhythm...
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| 4 | deepsnapper
Sustainer
ID: 17103420
Wed, Aug 20, 2003, 00:24
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TLW - I haven't seen Bradford, but could he be any more of a knuckle-dragger than Byung-Hyun Kim or Dennis Eckersley? Eckersley used to wear a long sleeved undershirt and the sleeve of it would be nasty after a few pitches (his pitching was nasty too).
TMK, as long as you don't bounce the ball, you can throw it anyway you want to in order to get it across the plate within the strike zone. Rules governing "holding" a runner on base preclude some motions such as starting from second base and running to the rubber as in Cricket, but I guess as long as your foot's on the rubber when you release the ball, you could execute that manuever when the bases were empty.
"Holding" a runner requires an orchestration of movements on the pitching rubber which makes the submarine or "full sidearm" difficult to pitch due to the length of time to the plate. I've pitched and thrown sidearm as a youth in our local YMCA leagues, and as a lefty had a decent curveball doing it, but I couldn't imagine trying to hold a runner on and throw sidearm. They'd be stealing bases on every pitch! The "en vogue" thing now is the slide step to quiken the pitcher's motions to his release point in order to give the catcher a better opportunity to throw out the runner. Most bases are stolen on the pitcher, not the catcher. The get a bum rap on that stat.
We would have got in trouble for trying something like the "slide step". It would've been "poor mechanics" or some such. Of course we had 2/day practices this time of the year in Texaa for football and the coaches witheld water to make us "tougher". The used water breaks (2 for a 3 hrs practice) as an incentive to work harder). anywaaaay.
Ken Burn's "Baseball"on PBS is an 18 hour series covering 150 years of baseball in America. I highly recommend it. I saw a pitcher in that series throwing a ball 40-50 feet in the air like a slow pitch softball pitcher in order to strike batters out. That was legal then, I suppose it'd still be now. That was in the "modern era" of baseball too.
If you can throw it that high, I don't see why you couldn't go as low as possible w/o bouncing the ball. Dennis did & Kim does. :-)
ds
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| 5 | balls
Donor
ID: 123372513
Wed, Aug 20, 2003, 00:36
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LMAO
Who rated this a 1? This is must read material!
"It seems to be hard for hitters to adjust to this kind of motion." classic stuff, left wings
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| 6 | The Left Wings
ID: 6142019
Wed, Aug 20, 2003, 01:19
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Yeah yeah yeah, Byung-Hyun Kim is another one who does that. It's like throwing a softball.
Thanks Deepsnapper.
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| 7 | holt
ID: 5064656
Wed, Aug 20, 2003, 03:25
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Dan Quisenberry was an awesome side-armer - royals closer back in the '80s.
I remember Phil Niekro (I think it was Niekro) throwing ephus (?) pitches in games in the '80s. He'd go into his regular motion, then when his lead foot planted, it seems like his arm was the only moving part of his body, and he throw it up high like a softball pitch - probably 20 mph or something. It usually worked, but I think I vaguely remember someone cranking one out.
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| 8 | TDM
ID: 32717417
Wed, Aug 20, 2003, 06:26
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One team in major league baseball (Oakland?) has a rule that before they release a career minor league pitcher they first try to have them throw side arm....
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| 9 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Wed, Aug 20, 2003, 07:01
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Ted Abernathy, Kent Tekulve, Mark Eichhorn....
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| 10 | deepsnapper
Sustainer
ID: 411148204
Wed, Aug 20, 2003, 10:41
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Holt - Thanks for remembering what they called the "nothing" pitch. Hard to believe the guy won 21 games in 1943 - Rip Sewell's "eephus" pitch
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| 11 | Chuck
Donor
ID: 44450814
Wed, Aug 20, 2003, 10:49
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So can a fastpitch softball player throw with that throwing motion, then, too in an MLB game? I don't know if they can get the same dynamics using a baseball vs. a softball, but I would think that would be a hard pitch to pick up, too.
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| 12 | beastiemiked
Sustainer
ID: 3531815
Wed, Aug 20, 2003, 10:59
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Probably can do it but doubtful that it would be remotely effective. Softball mounds are probably 20 feet closer than baseball mounds. The effectiveness of the softball toss would be lost at such a great distance.
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| 13 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Wed, Aug 20, 2003, 13:56
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So can a fastpitch softball player throw with that throwing motion, then, too in an MLB game? I don't know if they can get the same dynamics using a baseball vs. a softball, but I would think that would be a hard pitch to pick up, too.
Eddie Feigner, the King of fast-pitch softball, struck out hundreds of big-league players in exhibition games during his heyday. "In an exhibition in Los Angeles at Dodger Stadium, Feigner struck out - in order - major leaguers Willie Mays, Willie McCovey, Brooks Robinson, Maury Wills, Harmon Killebrew and Roberto Clemente." link Basically he was unhittable by the best ML stars from the 50s through the 70s.
Bill James has speculated that in 50 or 100 years, underarm will be the basic delivery for pitchers. The advantage for overarm is terms of speed is the big wind-up; but no-one uses the big wind-up any more. As Games noted a pitcher like Juan Marichal used a combination of a windup and a leg kick that looked, to the untrained observer, like he is trying to fly. Now no-one uses the big wind-up that was dominant from the 30s to the 70s.
And it is asserted that pitching in this style leads to fewer arm problems.
Toral
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| 14 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Wed, Aug 20, 2003, 14:06
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ESPN listed Feigner's fastball as among baseball's 10 greatest pitches ever.
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| 15 | beastiemiked
Sustainer
ID: 3531815
Wed, Aug 20, 2003, 14:15
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Wow, 238 perfect games.
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| 16 | Sludge
Sustainer
ID: 3065149
Wed, Aug 20, 2003, 14:22
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My uncle's old softball team actually played against The King and his Court once upon a time.
What the story doesn't say, however, is what distance away from the plate Feigner was when he struck out all of these major leaguers. It's 60'6" in baseball, but is only 46' for men's fast pitch softball.
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| 17 | sosa
ID: 586431312
Wed, Aug 20, 2003, 14:33
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Check out This Week in Baseball some time, Jennie Finch has been striking out lots of MLB hitters....
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| 18 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Wed, Aug 20, 2003, 14:36
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What the story doesn't say, however, is what distance away from the plate Feigner was when he struck out all of these major leaguers. It's 60'6" in baseball, but is only 46' for men's fast pitch softball.
I don't know either, Sludge. But the one ex game mentioned was in Dodger Stadium. Do you think they built a new closer mound for him?
Toral
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| 19 | Sludge
Sustainer
ID: 3065149
Wed, Aug 20, 2003, 14:53
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No, but they don't have to. Fast pitch softball (or softball of any type) doesn't use a mound.
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| 20 | Razor
Donor
ID: 411149818
Wed, Aug 20, 2003, 15:03
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Why not? Softball mounds are flat, are they not? Just throw a little clay and a rubber out there and you've got a mound.
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