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Subject: Neyer on Brad Penny
Posted by: blue hen
- [372102211] Wed, Aug 04, 2004, 18:58
Dodgers Come Out Ahead - is Insider only, but one of his best columns in a while. Neyer essentially defends Paul DePodesta, saying that the Dodgers improved their team and the Marlins did not, which is contrary to what most other columnists said all over the country (including a source in a Jayson Stark article). Even if you can't read the article, surely you have an opinion on the trade, so let's hear it... |
| 1 | smallwhirled
ID: 58521513
Wed, Aug 04, 2004, 19:38
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Great article. Penny is no RJ, but I think LA got a very solid guy. Low 3 ERA's and he pitched well last postseason.
Florida's old strength is now just average. Beckett continues to have DL trips, Dontrelle gets lit up when he gets seen a lot, and now they replaced Penny with Ismael Valdez and his almost 6 ERA with a lot of his starts in the paradise known as Petco.
We'll see what happens with this one, Gagne might have to put in even more work, and Razor pointed out yesterday that his velocity was down after the 3 inning appearance.
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| 2 | Razor
ID: 136401218
Wed, Aug 04, 2004, 19:51
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He's basically said everything that I and other knowledgeable Dodger fans on the Insiders board have been saying about this trade since it happened. Dodgers got younger, cheaper and better. I really didn't expect anything less from Neyer, though he didn't say anything I didn't already know. What I am surprised at is teh fact that Jayson Stark still gets paid. I'm convinced he's like the guy from Office Space who continued working and get paychecks after he got fired. They need to fix the glitch.
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| 3 | The Left Wings
ID: 6142019
Wed, Aug 04, 2004, 20:03
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Is it just me or don't most of the people think that the Dodgers won the trade? Where did they get the "most other columnists said all over the country"?
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| 4 | blue hen
ID: 372102211
Wed, Aug 04, 2004, 20:31
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From Stark:
"All he traded was his fifth starter (Brad Penny), a platoon guy (Hee Seop Choi), a bench player (Abraham Nunez) and two minor leaguers (Bill Murphy and Travis Chick)," said one NL front-office man. "And he got the best setup man in the league (Guillermo Mota), one of the best catchers in the league (Paul Lo Duca), a decent fifth starter (Ismael Valdez), a starting right fielder (Juan Encarnacion) and a useful arm (Rudy Seanez). And he got the Dodgers to pay them to take their best player (Lo Duca). How 'bout that?"
Every radio report I heard said the Marlins fleeced the Dodgers. As Neyer notes, Dan Le Batard was the only national columnist to call the Dodgers the winners. If someone can find opposing evidence, do it, but I haven't seen any.
Wasn't Lo Duca terrible last year? Or was it just magnified because he was on my fantasy team? Honestly, if I find out that the NL exec was from the Phillies, I'm going to cry.
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| 5 | R9
Leader
ID: 2624472
Wed, Aug 04, 2004, 21:26
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I think calling Penny the 5th starter is nonsense to begin with. LA had no ace, so it needed some overall depth In its 1-2-3 SP's. In the playoffs Alvarez can go to the pen, re-strengthening what was downgraded.
I've defended the Dodgers on AIM for a bit now, and I stand by it. (Of course, Penny's last start helps me do that.) LA's pen without Mota is just fine imho, not as great as it was but definitely dealing from a strength. Gagne was under-used, he's a former hockey player so he knows how to tough things out. Maybe the 3 IP stint was taking it too far, but he only threw 36 pitches. He can handle more 4 and 5 out saves easily, meaning Dreifort only needs to pitch 1-2 outs. He's no Mota, but he'll do ok.
Too, I've always thought Loduca was overrated a bit. .300 catchers are nice (for fantasy) but this same great player has a career .344 OBP and .431 SLG. Ok, but nothing irreplaceable. In his place they got Choi's bat, which they've been calling a 'platoon bat'. His stats (.270/.388/.495) are way, way better then Encarnacion's no matter which side or split or whatever your looking at. So how is Choi a platoon player, but Juan is a 'starting right fielder'?
To me, it breaks down as:
Penny (#2 or 3 SP, young, improving)
Choi (Good overall power bat, needs improvement vs. lefties)
Nunez (Useless. Not even with LA anymore)
Two minor leaguers with a low ceiling.
for
LoDuca (decent catcher, wearing down)
Valdez ('decent' isn't quite what I'd call a 8.88 ERA/2.12 WHIP away from Petco)
Encarnacion (now HERE'S the platoon player. Awful, awful OBP. I bet Deposta did this deal just to get rid of HIM...)
Seanez ('useful' arms like this will be available for free in August.)
Overall, I think Penny and Choi are two guys with much room to grow, whereas the rest is just stuff you can get for cheap anywhere. Intangibles like 'big clubhouse guy' (LoDuca) changes things a bit, but it doesn't get THAT much weight in my book. Someone else will step up.
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| 6 | Razor
ID: 136401218
Wed, Aug 04, 2004, 21:48
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You're mixing teams up. Nunez, Seanez and Valdez had nothing to do with LA. Other than that, you are mostly right on. It has been said that the deal was originally to get rid of Encarnacion, and that Depo was bent on replacing Encarnacion with Finley. He hated Encarnacion as did I. He promised the Marlins that he'd get any reliever in the league, supposedly, to take Encarnacion but they wanted Mota.
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| 7 | blue hen
ID: 372102211
Wed, Aug 04, 2004, 23:07
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Agreed, I think the Encarnacion/Choi comparison is the most heinous statement in the article. Makes me want to give up my dreams of becoming an NL exec.
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| 8 | beastiemiked
ID: 262411016
Wed, Aug 04, 2004, 23:18
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I refuse to read anything that is written by Stark, Gammons, or Morgan unless I want a good laugh.
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| 9 | Razor
ID: 136401218
Thu, Aug 05, 2004, 00:14
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Gammons was actually very fair in his assessment of this trade both on air and in his articles.
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| 10 | R9
Leader
ID: 2624472
Thu, Aug 05, 2004, 00:24
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I suppose that those players are from Florida's POV, as that is what they got for what they gave up in all their deadline deals. I just don't see it as a plus for the Marlins, who have been given positive grades from alot of columnists for their deals. Then again, at the time it was made I thought the Urbina trade last year was bad for them too. So who knows?
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