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Subject: RIBC 2005 - preseason discussion
Posted by: Guru
- [330592710] Sun, Feb 13, 2005, 21:00
Here are the sixteen managers for the 2005 RotoGuru Invitational Baseball Challenge:
Athletics_Guy
Bmd
Chris
darkside
Guru
holt
jumpball
KrazyKoalaBears
Matt S
Peter N.
Ref
rockafellerskank
slackjawed yokel
Species
Toral
youngroman
We need to review the league rules prior to the draft to determine whether any changes are warranted. I'll copy in the league rules from last year's thread. In reviewing these rules, please take a look at last season's RIBC Retrospective thread. |
Only the 50 most recent replies are currently shown. Click on this text to display hidden posts as well.
[Lengthy or complex threads may require a slight delay before updating.] |
| 126 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Feb 23, 2005, 19:12
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I'll pick 7th.
KKB is up.
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| 127 | KrazyKoalaBears
ID: 4111221
Wed, Feb 23, 2005, 21:07
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I'll take 3rd
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| 128 | Athletics Guy
ID: 391271017
Wed, Feb 23, 2005, 21:53
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i'll take 8th
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| 129 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Feb 23, 2005, 22:06
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youngroman is up (but he's probably not awake right now)
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| 130 | youngroman
ID: 298482214
Wed, Feb 23, 2005, 22:12
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I pick 11th
i just got awake. I don't know why? is there a special connecion to the Guru, because he posted only 5 minutes ago.
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| 132 | jumpball
ID: 111322412
Thu, Feb 24, 2005, 13:32
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I'll take the 9th slot.
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| 134 | beastiemiked
ID: 4310501610
Thu, Feb 24, 2005, 14:25
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I'll pick 5th and hope a guy slips to me in the 2nd round rather than hoping he slips in the first round.
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| 135 | Slackjawed Yokel
Leader
ID: 052347519
Thu, Feb 24, 2005, 16:04
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I'll take 10th
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| 136 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Feb 24, 2005, 16:07
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1 darkside
2 Peter N
3 KrazyKoalaBears
4 rockafellerskank
5 beastiemiked
6 Chris
7 Guru
8 Athletics Guy
9 jumpball
10 Slackjawed Yokel
11 youngroman
12
13
14
15
16 Matt S
Ref is up
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| 137 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Feb 24, 2005, 19:14
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12th
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| 138 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Thu, Feb 24, 2005, 19:20
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holt is up.
After he picks, I will take the highest pick available (13th or 14th) when it is my turn. Thus, after holt picks, we should have our final draft order.
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| 139 | holt
ID: 5182220
Thu, Feb 24, 2005, 19:42
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15th
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| 140 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Thu, Feb 24, 2005, 19:51
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I take 13th. That leaves 14th for Toral.
2005 RIBC draft order is:
1 darkside
2 Peter N
3 KrazyKoalaBears
4 rockafellerskank
5 beastiemiked
6 Chris
7 Guru
8 Athletics Guy
9 jumpball
10 Slackjawed Yokel
11 youngroman
12 Ref
13 Species
14 Toral
15 holt
16 Matt S
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| 141 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Feb 24, 2005, 20:25
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March 7th seems to be the popular favorite for starting the draft.
I'll work with KKB to get the draft software set up. Once that is done, you will each receive instructions on how to register for the draft. Let me think about appropriate standards for the clock.
Meanwhile, Chris and bmd still haven't joined the league at Yahoo.
Are there other issues that we should discuss or resolve prior to the draft?
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| 142 | Toral
ID: 22731114
Thu, Feb 24, 2005, 23:26
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Hey, Species, don't be making my pick for me. I freely, and of my own volition choose #14;)
Issues to be resolved before the draft, none really, but:
1) RIBC last year IIRC did not allow people on either end of the draft to receive their 2 allotments of clock (i.e., if the picking period is 4 hours, queue-enders recived only 4 hours, not 8.)
That was one practice RQL did not follow last year, and I see the other leagues are already debating it this year. I feel queue-enders should get their full allotment, for 2 reasons: 1) Although everybody has some kind of strategy and list, and queue-enders' picks will ordinarily follow quickly upon one another, there are times when you're in a strategy jam, and need as much time as you can get to make a decision, especially when you're not up again for 30 picks. You only draft once. 2) If it comes to the terrible point where someone has to be skipped over, they deserve the same amount of time per pick (x hours) as everyone else.
Only affects darkside and Matt S obviously, but it they have an opinion they should speak up.
2) I'm getting antsy to draft. It's prepare, prepare, prepare, waiting, and then my 3 leagues all start to draft March 7.
Once the KKB arrangement is set up, is there any reason we couldn't open drafting almost immediately, with no clock?
Toral
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| 143 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 09:01
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My philosophy on the clock is that its purpose is not to give you time to figure out your strategy, but that it is to allow you time to notice that it is your turn. On this basis, people on the turn don't warrant a double time limit.
The counterargument is that if someone else is late for a pick, they only risk having one pick skipped. A person on the turn who is late risks getting skipped twice.
As I recall, the draft software does not apply any special treatment to pickers on the turn, so if we shorten the time limit for the turn, it will have to be manually administered.
Last year, we had a 6 hour clock, with a moratorium from 1am-7am ET. We allowed for a possibility of a relaxed clock on weekends, subject to sufficient progress being made during the week.
Do these standards sound workable? What do others think about clock standards for those on the turn?
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| 144 | Ref
ID: 321252510
Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 11:48
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If you are an endcap, you should get one clock for both picks. If not, since you are never actually skipped, you could make both of your picks as your time is expiring for your second pick. The leagues I've been in don't give you a clock if you've been skipped and not made your last pick by the time it is your turn again. This is really the same thing--only it's every pick. Most managers next to the endcap, wait around for that manager to select so he can pick again anyway.
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| 145 | youngroman
ID: 298482214
Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 11:54
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clock would be fine with me, and I think I would have the most problems with it because of being 6 hours ahead of it (7am - 1pm local time).
thats what queues and long nights are for.
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| 146 | Matt S en Mexico
ID: 461422514
Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 16:14
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I am also in favour of giving the full clock to managers on the ends. I'll do my best not to hold things up, though... :)
Matt S
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| 147 | rockafellerskank
ID: 180352016
Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 16:47
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Guru proposed terms in 141/143 are OK with me.
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| 148 | holt
ID: 5182220
Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 16:50
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refs last post makes perfect sense to me, so I would be opposed to #1 or #16 receiving 8-10 hours for their picks.
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| 149 | holt
ID: 5182220
Fri, Feb 25, 2005, 16:55
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I see there was a 6 hour clock last year. I can't imagine allowing 12 hours for one manager to check in. like ref said, if anyone misses one pick, they should basically have no clock time allowed for their next pick until they've made their presence known.
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| 150 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Sat, Feb 26, 2005, 13:19
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I'm thinking about the guidelines for succession.
So far, there is a AAA QL and probably at least 3 AA QLs. A 4th AA QL is possible, though the 3rd isn't quite filled yet.
For this year, we kept the top 8 RIBC teams from last year. That may be more than we can handle for next year.
I want to invite the winner of each AA league to next year's RIBC, as well as the top X finishers in the AAA league.
Suppose there are 4 AA QLs. Suppose that I stink and have to invoke Guru-privilege to remain. That's 5 slots out of 16 that are taken. Of the remaining 11, I'm thinking that the top 6 should get to come back, and the top 5 from the AAA league should advance. If there are any additional openings, either via attrition, or because we have only 3 AA leagues, or because I finish in the top 6 (heaven forbid!), then a 6th AAA team would move up. From that point forward, openings would alternate between keeping one more RIBC team, then adding one more AAA team, etc.
Those who are in the RIBC who do not qualify to stay would drop down. The AAA league will not be able to absorb all 9-10 teams from this league. So I guess the bottom dwellers should drop all the way down to AA. This will give the AAA league room to accept some AA promotions.
Again, thinking out loud, if the bottom 4 RIBC teams go to AA, then 5-6 would go to AAA. The AAA league could retain a few teams (but not many) that do not advance to the RIBC. The remaining slots would go to AA teams. If there are 4 AA leagues and the 2nd and 3rd place teams advance from each league, then there will be room for only 2-3 AAA teams to stay put.
Does this sound like a reasonable approach? Until we know the actual number of AA leagues, I don't want to set numbers in stone, but once all QLs are formed, I'll try to put together a more definitive plan.
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| 151 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Sat, Feb 26, 2005, 13:45
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What about adding another AAA league, if there ends up being 4 AA leagues?
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| 152 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Sat, Feb 26, 2005, 14:20
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For 2006, I assume? That's a possibility.
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| 153 | Slackjawed Yokel
Leader
ID: 052347519
Sat, Feb 26, 2005, 15:08
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I think what you're saying makes sense, Guru. With the attrition that's bound to happen year-to-year, you've got a little leeway. As I see it you can have some 'symmetry' here with a single big league and a single AAA team. For each of these you could have 8 teams drop down. For the current 3 AA leagues, it could work out as follows.
Big leagues: 8 - 7 - 1 [8 stay, 7 drop to AAA, 1 to AA]
AAA: 5 - 3 - 8 [5 to the bigs, 3 stay, 8 down to AA]
each AA league: 1 - 2 - 13 [1 to RIBC, 2 to AAA, 13 return to AA]
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| 154 | Toral
ID: 22731114
Sat, Feb 26, 2005, 15:24
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Sitting down and working it out myself, I think you've got it pretty well dead to rights, Guru, if there are 4 AA leagues. 6 (or 7) teams staying in RIBC is reasonable, I think.
2 AAAs in 2006 would help.
I wouldn't be surprised to see 5 or 6 AA leagues start up, though, which will definitely require use of the thinking cap.
Toral
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| 155 | jumpball
ID: 198192210
Sat, Feb 26, 2005, 18:03
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I believe that finishing in the top half of the best league should warrant an invitation back to play the following year.
Here's my suggestion (similar to YRs):
If three are 3 AA teams in 2005, set up the 2006 RIBC as Guru, the 3 AA winners, top 4 AAA teams, and the top 8 RIBC teams of the 15 non-Guru managed teams.
If there are 4 AA teams, one less RIBC team would advance.
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| 156 | JeffG
Leader
ID: 01584348
Sat, Feb 26, 2005, 19:02
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My suggestion, playing off the 2 AAA concept next season, to reward more AA teams to advance.
This season...
RIBC. 6+Guru stay (7). next 8 to AAA, 1 to AA.
AAA. top 5 to RIBC, 6-13 stay AAA, 14-16 to AA
AA. #1 to RIBC (3 or 4), 2-5/6 to AAA (15 or 16). 6/7-16 remain AA.
So next season will look like this:
RIBC 2006 - 7 holdovers, 5 from AAA, 3 from AA, leaves 1 wildcard invitee if no 4th AA league.
AAA 2006 - 8 from RIBC, 8 from AAA, 5 from each AA (15) leaves 1 wild card if 3 leagues 4 from each AA (16) if 4 leagues.
AA 2006 - again open invites to entire rotoguru.com community.
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| 157 | KrazyKoalaBears
Leader
ID: 517553018
Sat, Feb 26, 2005, 22:48
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RE: The Clock "On the Clock" is set to only give ONE clock to picks on the end. However, once the first pick on the end has been made, that user gets a full clock for their second pick. That said, I believe in what Guru said that the time is NOT for determining your pick, but to allow you to notice it's your pick. So, if the clock is 6 hours and the user at the end of the round doesn't make their pick in time, the software will skip over BOTH picks. If they make their pick in time, they get a full clock for their second pick but it has never been an issue of somebody using that full clock.
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| 158 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Sun, Feb 27, 2005, 14:26
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Four people still need to register for the league draft at Kafenatid.net
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| 159 | Matt S en Mexico
ID: 71222713
Sun, Feb 27, 2005, 14:33
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I am looking to make two trades with my 1st and 6th picks (16th and 81st overall) and my 2nd and 5th picks (17th and 80th overall.) I would like to acquire a 3rd and 4th round pick from someone around the middle of the order, and from someone closer to the beginning of the order. E-mail me your offers.
Matt S
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| 161 | Khahan
ID: 2884979
Mon, Feb 28, 2005, 08:02
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I've got Matt S.' que. Unfortunately, today just happens to be a travel day for me. I should be back around by about 2pm today and will check in then.
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| 162 | darkside
Dude
ID: 3590317
Mon, Feb 28, 2005, 08:34
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I'm now registered at Kafenatid.
One clock for my picks is fine with me.
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| 163 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Mon, Feb 28, 2005, 12:57
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Upon further reflection, I think the best approach for successive years is to have 2 AAA leagues next year. The succession plan would be similar to what JeffG suggests in 156.
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| 164 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Mon, Feb 28, 2005, 17:35
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There are several hitters that Yahoo has listed only as "Util". There are two ways to handle this for draft program categorization:
1. Set up a position of Util (or DH). Most teams won't draft one.
2. Don't set up a separate code for Util. If you draft one of those players, just specify the most likely position, should that player get additional eligibility at a position.
Either way, it won't affect how you can use the player. It will only impact how the draft grid displays.
Any thoughts?
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| 165 | KrazyKoalaBears
Leader
ID: 517553018
Mon, Feb 28, 2005, 17:42
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I say have the "UTL" position as part of the draft and only use it for players who only have DH/UTL specification in Yahoo. Otherwise, the grid would be a bit off if someone drafted a DH and put them at 1B or OF or wherever else.
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| 166 | darkside
Dude
ID: 3590317
Tue, Mar 01, 2005, 10:40
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What KKB said sounds fine with me.
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| 167 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Mar 01, 2005, 11:01
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OK. Will do.
I can turn on the draft at any time, without starting the clock. That would allow the first pick(s) to be made prior to our scheduled start on March 7. I'm a bit reluctant to do that yet, though, as I don't want to put undue pressure on anyone to pick prematurely. We'll have plenty of time to complete the draft.
So, unless there is a groundswell of opposition, I will activate the draft on Friday, March 4. The 6-hour clock will start on Monday morning, and no one should feel compelled to pick until the clock starts. But early picking will be enabled sometime on Friday.
Once the draft begins, I will start a new thread for draft discussion. That thread will be useful for logistical communications, to help others anticipate potential delays, to recruit someone to accept a queue, to announce or solicit trades, to coordinate changes in the clock for weekends, etc. Please check that thread regularly throughout the draft, as we will rely on it as the primary means of communication.
That thread can also be used for commentary (from anyone). However, established draft etiquette is that no undrafted player names should be mentioned, and in the event of an infraction, should be edited out.
After two rounds have been completed, a separate draft rationale thread will be started. We will try to keep that thread on a 2 round lag. Therefore, after you make your pick in round 3, please immediately post your round 1 pick rationale, and so forth. I usually draft my rationales as I make picks, so that all I need to do when the time comes is copy and paste. I recommend that approach for everyone.
Finally, when the draft starts, I will post a link that allows everyone to see the draft in progress. The link will provide access even if you are blocked from the kafenatid.net domain.
Jumpball - do you still have rotoguru site access limitations from work? If so, I'll dust off my backdoor window to the draft thread. Also, do you have workday access to kafenatid.net?
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| 168 | Bandos
ID: 19230112
Tue, Mar 01, 2005, 13:59
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Was a decision about timed out managers ever "officially" agreed to? It seesm the prevailing opinion is that you have 6 hours to show - if you tinme out, all subsequent picks will be cancelled until you return. As this situation is Happening right now in the Sally league (after all we are a bunch of sallies!) I would appreciate any guidance to be in compliance with RIBC.
I am in favor of holts reasoning in 149 and have said that will be our policy unless we hear differently from you.
Thanks
Bandos, AA Sally Commish
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| 169 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Mar 01, 2005, 14:18
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Yes. Once you time out, the draft moves to the next person. Skipped picks can be made at any time thereafter. If you have not made your skipped picks when your next turn arrives, that pick is also skipped.
[KKB - is this how the OTC software will operate? Are subsequent picks skipped if earlier picks have not been made? Or will that require Commissioner intervention?]
The Commish should have the right to allow extra time for subsequent picks if he believes it is in the best interest of the league. The Commish may also make picks on behalf of a skipped manager if he believes it is necessary to maintain competitive balance. This actually happened once in the RIFC. The person picking at the end of round 1 missed both picks at the first turn. Once the second round was completed, we simply made his two picks in arrears before proceeding with the third round.
Obviously, each manager needs to be responsible for paying attention, and for making alternative arrangements when he/she might be unavailable. But the Commish should still try to ensure that no team is egregiously out of balance with the rest of the league. That does no one any favors.
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| 170 | Motley Crue
Leader
ID: 439372011
Tue, Mar 01, 2005, 14:32
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Yeah, it happened like Guru said. And then Goatlocker wound up with Tiki Barber and Terrell Owens. So it's definitely a strategy worth considering. ; )
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| 171 | KrazyKoalaBears
Leader
ID: 517553018
Tue, Mar 01, 2005, 15:32
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"On the Clock" will allow a skipped pick to be made at any time after the pick was skipped. With the exception of the end picks, where both picks will be skipped, if the draft comes back around to someone who has had a pick skipped, the draft will wait for that manager to pick. So, let's say we're talking about the 12th person (picked at random Ref ;) in a 16 person draft and they miss their pick in Round 5. That pick will be skipped and managers 13, 14, 15, and 16 can all make their picks as usual. If the draft comes back to manager 12 before they've made their skipped pick, the draft will wait for them and give them a full clock. Obviously, the admin/commish can fill in a skipped pick (or any other pick for that matter) if they feel it's in the best interest of the league/draft. But that's up to the admin/commish.
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| 172 | jumpball
ID: 161432110
Tue, Mar 01, 2005, 21:41
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Guru,
I should have daytime access to the internet this year. Of course, I may not be able to do things in a timely manner with a client to keep happy!
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| 173 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Mar 02, 2005, 01:26
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KKB, I like that for a snaked draft.
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| 174 | Athletics Guy
ID: 24217410
Fri, Mar 04, 2005, 11:17
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Are we starting early picks today?
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| 175 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Mar 04, 2005, 12:29
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I just activated the draft software. The 6 hour clock will not start until 7am Monday, but early picks are allowed.
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| 176 | Toral
ID: 22731114
Fri, Mar 04, 2005, 12:31
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Posting of draft rationales starts around round 3, is that right? And begins with a "choice of draft position" rationale?
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| 177 | Ref
ID: 5421410
Fri, Mar 04, 2005, 12:32
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I'll likely not be around at all on Monday and very little on Sunday. Unless I get my pick or two in early, I'll need to leave a Q unless I can find a few mins and it just happened to be my turn at that point. So, may need to send a Q to someone Sunday morning.
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| 178 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Mar 04, 2005, 12:45
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I started a draft discussion thread. Let's move further discussion to that thread.
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