RotoGuru Baseball Forum

View the Forum Registry

XML Get RSS Feed for this thread


Self-edit this thread


0 Subject: The Texas Rangers are the worst team in baseball

Posted by: Seattle Zen
- [49112418] Fri, Jun 01, 2007, 16:31

When was the last time you could say that? Early 80's?

After watching Vincente Padilla mailing in a pathetically unprofessional "pitching" performance last night, I feel awful for Ron Washington.
1C1-NRB
      ID: 17348117
      Fri, Jun 01, 2007, 16:39
Try being a life-long fan...
2Peter N.
      ID: 333491512
      Fri, Jun 01, 2007, 17:51
Agreed C1. As long as I've known baseball, I've been a Rangers fan. Granted, I'm only 22, but this is getting downright sad. My only hope is that they somehow turn it around like the Mavs did. I remember watchin them before Cuban took over and it was exciting just to get a win much less 50+.

I think a change in management across the board is in order. It's not too hard to figure out what is going on. Our GM, Jon Daniels, is getting worked. Here are some of the "brilliant" deals he has made since taking over.

1. Alfonso Soriano for Brad Wilkerson(sucks) and Terrmel Sledge(gone)
2. Chris Young, Adrian Gonzalez and Terrmel Sledge for Adam Eaton(gone) and Akinori Otsuka(decent, hopefully we trade him before the deadline)
3. Francisco Cordero(fan favorite), Kevin Mench(fan favorite) and Layne Nix for Carlos Lee(gone) and Nelson Cruz(good potential)

Hart wasn't any better. I don't recall alot of his bonehead moves, but one that sticks out was trading Trafis Hafner for Einar Diaz and pitcher Ryan Drese.

No wonder we suck.

It will be interesting to see what happens before the deadline. Sadly, thats all the excitement that can be mustered for the Rangers fans right now. I expect Teixeira, Otsuka, Lofton, Sosa and a few others to be gone. Daniels is in a good spot to maybe redeem himself and give us a glimmer of hope.

I also feel sorry for Ron Washington and I don't think he's going to get a legit chance here. He inherited a team in disarray and iirc, his contract is only through next year. It's going to take longer than that to right this ship.
3blue hen
      Leader
      ID: 710321114
      Fri, Jun 01, 2007, 18:02
A lot of people called Daniels a genius for the Soriano deal. Who knew he'd become this good? Even still, his OBP isn't so great and we were expecting Wilkerson to be over .400 and not hurt.

The Chris Young deal was bad, especially since Eaton was made to look better by San Diego's park and Young was made to look worse by Texas's park. Switch em up and it's about right. You have no right to complain about Otsuka and lots of people were wrong about Gonzalez.

The Lee deal sucked, but Mench hasn't exactly been great and it was an attempt to win now (and get a leg up on Lee for 2007). The Rangers definitely lost, but it's not as bad as it looks at first glance.

Give Daniels some credit. He didn't trade away Hafner.
4Building 7
      ID: 571192610
      Fri, Jun 01, 2007, 23:13
The over/under was 80 wins. I bet the under. Wish I'd bet more, but it was my biggest bet.
5Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sat, Jun 02, 2007, 01:42
The Brewers were not going to re-sign Lee/ They ended up with one of the top closers in the MLB this year. Not sure how you want to look at it, but the Brewers have to believe it was a coup for them. I didn't like it at the time as I thought they could get a lot more for Lee, but Cordero has turned out to be so much more than washed up. In turn they paid for Gagne. Ugh.
6C1-NRB
      ID: 17348117
      Sat, Jun 02, 2007, 02:07
I think Teixeira's gone before the deadline. I just hope they get a couple of guys that are under contract for a few years and some hot prospects.

I hated the Chris Young deal at the time, but I won't complain about Otsuka for a minute. He can set up or close and doesn't mind doing either one. I hope they try to keep him around a while.

Tonight's game was typical '90's Ranger baseball: Give up a lot of hits and give up a lot of runs but get a lot of hits and score one more run. The only thing missing was giving up a lot of walks. The only walk issued was by Gagne (of all people) to lead off the ninth.

There's always talk of how a team can "turn things around" after holding a team down (4-1 vs. OAK earlier this week) but I think the Ranger mentality might be better served in a slugfest win like this one, 9-8. Check back next week for an update on that.
7Bags
      ID: 2500120
      Sat, Jun 02, 2007, 02:47
The Rangers were not going to pay Cordero his 5.4M option for '07 after the year he had last year. He had 5 BS in April with an 11.45 ERA and was replaced by Otsuka.

Mench, who after this year is arbitration eligible, has a career OPS under .700 after the All-Star break. He will be looking for a big raise next year in arbitration but is clearly not worth the 4-5M he could get.

Nix, another of the players involved, is a career AAA who can not stay healthy.

Moving all of those players, who had no future with us past 2006, for Lee/Cruz to help with a playoff push was worth the risk.

The Rangers had next to no interest in signing Lee. I remember the Rangers would only offer about what the Brewers had offered him.

I am in the same boat as Peter N. I am a big Rangers fan who is becoming skeptical in the job management is doing. Sometime this year or in the off-season we will have to trade Tex. I don't have the faith that JD can get a good return for him.

8Tree
      ID: 4055827
      Sat, Jun 02, 2007, 10:03
growing up in Ft. Worth, i was a lifelong Ranger fan. having lived 10 minutes from Shea Stadium for the last decade, i've become a huge Mets fan as well, but i still keep an eye on the Rangers.

as a kid, one of my most traumatic memories was my mom grounding me for something i don't even remember, and that meant missing the Ranger game that night at the stadium. not only was it pancho night, but Richie Zisk hit a grand slam, and it devestated me to miss all that.

it surprised me recently to see how awful they were, and it's somewhat confounding. yea, they've given away some good players, but i'm not so sure anyone knew that Hafner would be as solid as he is, since he was already 26 when the Rangers got rid of him; and while Soriano put up some great numbers in a Texas uniform, i dont think a ton of people thought he would keep those numbers up - after all, his OBP was not that solid until last year.

the Rangers have a decent core of players, but big Tex can't carry the team on his own.

Laird had an AWFUL first month of the season, and is just now starting to come around. unfortunately, his rise was timed perfectly with Kinsler sinking to the bottom of the lake in record time, and Michael Young has defined "suck" all season...

add in Blalock's injury and you have a recipe for a team that's going to struggle.
9Myboyjack
      ID: 8216923
      Sat, Jun 02, 2007, 23:41
Richie Zisk. Awesome.
10Taxman
      SuperDude
      ID: 029463114
      Sun, Jun 03, 2007, 01:02
Was just gettinjg ready for law school when the Senators (with Frank Howard) became the stRangers. What a curse to love a team that sucks season after season.

tree...what you didn't mention is the Rangers continuing failure to draft & develop pitching talent. Let's see..there is of course Cordero and Young, then if we go back a'ways there is Kevin Brown and Kenny Rogers, (lost him, got him back then ran him off) and ...uhhh hmmm, 26 years and I can name only 4 home grown (drafted and remained in Ranger farm system until they hit "The Show") all star pitchers. Charlie Hough the ageless knuckleballer (aren't they all) doesn't count since he was a product of the Senator's farm system before they moved to Arlington.

Dating back thru Pete Incavalia, Seattle manager Hargrove and Jeff Burrows, the stRangers have always produced hitters, but very rarely pitchers, and those (wisely or luckily) never stay. However, we have to remember on whose team the "Mendoza Line" was established.

Can any one come up with other stRanger home grown pitching talent? 26 drafts and pretty much zip..nada..zero..zilch (etc)
11holt
      ID: 50340153
      Sun, Jun 03, 2007, 02:29
bobby witt, rick helling? that's pretty sad.
12Bags
      ID: 2500120
      Sun, Jun 03, 2007, 07:49
We really didn't run Kenny Rogers off. He kinda let himself go when he smacked around a camera man for no reason. He sealed the deal with an apathetic apology for the incident.
13Bags
      ID: 2500120
      Sun, Jun 03, 2007, 07:56
Very true about our lack of developing pitchers. I thought we had a good one with Danks, but.

I really wouldn't even count Cordero and Young since we got both of them through trades.
14Taxman
      SuperDude
      ID: 029463114
      Sun, Jun 03, 2007, 13:55
oops. Worse than I thought.

But there always next year :<( DMN sports headlines report Rangers have 6 picks in the first 80 of this years draft.

Wonder how many (if any) of the "chosen 6" ever see Dallas, as in Frisco.
15JL
      ID: 37523313
      Sun, Jun 03, 2007, 14:23
Mark Teixiera was "home grown". So was Juan Gonzalez, Ivan Rodriguez, and Ruben Sierra(people forget that he was pretty good in the early 90's).

Some of my favorite Ranger trades include:

1)Chris Young and Adrian Gonzalez to SD for Aki Otsuka and Adam Eaton. Young is a native Texan that was locked up for the next five years with a cheap contract. Eaton had one year remaining on his contract and was quoted as saying that he "would never want to pitch in Texas". Great trade.

2)Travis Hafner to Cleveland for Einar Diaz. This could possibly go down as one of the five worst trades in MLB history.

3)Alfonso Soriano for Brad Wilkerson

4)A young Sammy Sosa and Wilson Alvarez to CWS for Harold Baines.

Ranger blogger Adam Morris has been very critical of Ron Washington's decisions on lonestarball.com. After reading through it, there may be a reason why Washington was never seriously considered by Billy Beane as the A's next manager.

16Bags
      ID: 2500120
      Sun, Jun 03, 2007, 22:54
Love me some Lone Star Baseball blog.
17Bags
      ID: 2500120
      Sun, Jun 03, 2007, 23:33
A great article about what has been said here.

Evan Grant of the DMN
18holt
      ID: 50340153
      Mon, Jun 04, 2007, 05:40
And on yet another occasion, the Rangers drafted on profile, meaning the pitchers were all big boned and 6-2 or taller.

what an ignorant way to scout pitchers. just downright idiotic. how do these guys get jobs with major league organizations? seriously.
19blue hen
      ID: 472431014
      Mon, Jun 04, 2007, 20:12
Did you read Moneyball?
20holt
      ID: 50340153
      Tue, Jun 05, 2007, 00:42
no I didn't. most of what I know about moneyball is from what I've read in these forums.
21Taxman
      SuperDude
      ID: 029463114
      Fri, Jun 08, 2007, 01:35
A new low (at least it wasn't Frank Thomas)

from Thursday June 7th boxscore Det at Tex

Base Running
SB - M Ordonez (1, 2nd base off K Loe/G Laird).
22holt
      ID: 50340153
      Fri, Jun 08, 2007, 04:12
LOL - nice

double steal maybe??
23C1-NRB
      ID: 17348117
      Fri, Jun 08, 2007, 11:38
It was a hit-and-run that should have been a strike-'em-out-throw-'em-out double play. Maggs was out by 10 feet but the throw sailed to the firstbase side and he managed to slide all the way around the base to the toward centerfield and get his hand on the left field side of the base as Young was coming down to apply the tag. Young, coming over from SS and having to jump toward right field for the ball, had his momentum going the complete opposite direction.

Not that I'm making excuses.
24blue hen
      Leader
      ID: 710321114
      Fri, Jun 08, 2007, 11:50
Re: #20

First of all, you should read it.

Second of all, there are great quotes in there from scouts. For example, "He looks good in a uniform." Billy Beane responds with "We're not selling jeans here."
25barilko6
      ID: 52261810
      Tue, Jun 12, 2007, 14:24
Don't worry Rangers fans, at least your team isn't as historically bad as the Phillies!

You have some nice pieces, but definitely need to focus on developing pitchers.
26Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Tue, Jun 12, 2007, 14:35
Oh so very true. The Phils are approaching 10,000 losses.

27ChicagoTRS
      ID: 4110481415
      Tue, Jun 12, 2007, 16:33
bleh you could be going on 100 years without a title...

I am surprised to see the Cubs over .500...I guess the early 1900s and 1930s helped our record a lot.
28holt
      ID: 41512278
      Sun, Aug 12, 2007, 22:25
Former OF Greer joins Rangers Hall of Fame:
article here

I think that pretty much says it all.

career stats

He's the 10th player to be considered worthy of the Rangers Hall of Fame. played only 4 full seasons, 2 others where he had around 400 AB's. 119 HR's, 614 RBI, finished 22nd in MVP voting in '97.

lol
29holt
      ID: 41512278
      Sun, Aug 12, 2007, 22:34
gotta love the rangers. maybe this explains why they enshrined him. I mean if you're going to spend 21 million bucks you want to get something in return right?

from wikipedia:

In 2001, Greer was limited to only 62 games because of injuries, but he still hit seven home runs. Still a fan favorite, he was honored with a three-year, $21 million contract before the 2002 season. However, due to injuries he would only play 51 games with the Rangers in 2002.


Greer spent the remainder of his baseball career undergoing and recovering from surgeries. After first coming off of the disabled list in 2002, he was only able to play one more game, on July 11 of that year, before going back on the disabled list. On August 22, he had surgery to fuse the C5 and C6 vertebrae in his neck; and in the offseason, he had surgery to repair a torn rotator cuff in his shoulder. He was then expected to miss the entire 2003 season. While rehabilitating from the rotator cuff surgery, he had to undergo Tommy John surgery and an ulnar nerve transposition in July 2003. He actually was also supposed to receive operations on his right hip and right knee, but he decided against those. He also had surgery in the following offseason to remove scar tissue that had built up in his elbow, and early in the 2004 season he had additional surgery to remove scar tissue from his shoulder.

Nevertheless, he was still determined to come back, and he and the Rangers expected to see him back on the field as a designated hitter during the last month of their season. He worked out at the Rangers' spring training facility in Surprise, Arizona, with the intention of doing a rehabilitation assignment in the minor leagues shortly thereafter. However, his workout was cut short; he returned to Texas, where he had surgery to remove scar tissue on his forearm and was declared out for the season. The Rangers, not surprisingly, decided to buy out the option year on his contract; he actually made almost as much money during the two lost seasons as he did in the rest of his career combined.
30blue hen
      ID: 16322314
      Mon, Aug 13, 2007, 10:14
Below are the members of the Texas Rangers Hall of Fame. No mention of Juan Gonzalez, Rafael Palmeiro, Julio Franco, Ivan Rodriguez, Alex Rodriguez, Jeff Burroughs, Kenny Rogers, Ruben Sierra, Jeff Russell, Toby Harrah or Bobby Witt.

Charlie Hough
Johnny Oates (Manager)
Nolan Ryan
Jim Sundberg (Player and Broadcaster)
Buddy Bell
Ferguson Jenkins
Tom Vandergriff (local politician who spearheaded the campaign to bring baseball to the DFW area)
Mark Holtz (Broadcaster)
John Wetteland
Rusty Greer
31Perm Dude
      ID: 337121310
      Mon, Aug 13, 2007, 11:18
You know, that Franco trade was actually a good one for the Rangers. Julio Franco for Pete O'Brien, Oddibe McDowell, & Jerry Browne. Franco was a 3-time All Star for the Rangers, the others were gone within 3 years.
32blue hen
      ID: 16322314
      Mon, Aug 13, 2007, 13:39
And oh yeah, didn't the Indians lose 110 games the next year?

I think Jerry Browne was an all-star in there. And Oddibe was a superstar in the making that didn't happen.
33Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 454491514
      Mon, Aug 13, 2007, 13:44
Guys with funny names are almost always overrated.
34blue hen
      ID: 16322314
      Mon, Aug 13, 2007, 13:53
Yeah... Melky, Shelley, Joba, Tabata, and Bam-Bam, right?
35Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 454491514
      Mon, Aug 13, 2007, 14:12
Yeah, yeah... don't forget Deion.
36Perm Dude
      ID: 337121310
      Mon, Aug 13, 2007, 14:25
BH: It took a couple more years for the Tribe to get to 105 losses, but what a forgettable team. A couple of good players (most of whom played only a few games that year), but the rest were dreadful. A whole team of trivia answers.
37blue hen
      ID: 16322314
      Mon, Aug 13, 2007, 16:35
I meant these guys who lost 101.
38blue hen
      ID: 16322314
      Mon, Aug 13, 2007, 16:36
Jim Thome was on that team. And Eddie Taubensee, who is forever linked with a VERY underrated player...
39Mark L
      ID: 25155512
      Mon, Aug 13, 2007, 16:49
Weren't the Indians on the cover of SI's baseball preview issue in '87?
40blue hen
      ID: 16322314
      Mon, Aug 13, 2007, 16:54
41Mark L
      ID: 25155512
      Mon, Aug 13, 2007, 17:34
I think I have refuted the contention that smoking marijuana causes permanent memory problems.
42C1-NRB
      ID: 17348117
      Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 21:17
The worst team in baseball struck out a combined 30 times in two games vs. Johan Santana and Eric Bedard.

Tonight they set the modern record for most runs scored in a game at 30.
43Seattle Zen
      ID: 29241823
      Sat, May 24, 2008, 00:06
Time to change the title of this thread to The Seattle Mariners are the worst team in baseball. And they have done it with a ton of player salary. Heads need to roll, seriously.
44holt
      ID: 341542412
      Sat, May 24, 2008, 09:43
re 26
the Chicago Orphans!
Now let me get this straight. They adopted the name Orphans in 1898, then abandoned it for the Cubs in 1902. Those dirty so-and-so's deserve this jinx.
45Da Bomb
      Donor
      ID: 487112814
      Mon, May 26, 2008, 00:11
Excerpt from Mariners.com article.

"Playing on this team, and seeing what's happening around me, I feel like something is beginning to fall apart," Ichiro said. "If I was not in the situation, and I was objectively watching what had happened to this team in the last week, I'd probably be drinking a lot of beers and booing...Usually, I enjoy Japanese beer, but given the situation, I wouldn't care if it was Japanese beer, American beer or beer from Papua New Guinea," he said.
46holt
      ID: 341542412
      Mon, May 26, 2008, 07:30
ouch!
47holt
      ID: 341542412
      Mon, May 26, 2008, 07:44
seattle has a team OBP of .310. no patience at the plate whatsoever, and no apparent attempt to change. why are they still starting vidro and sexson? I suppose in that lineup they consider them to be "big" bats.

a weak lineup like that can't exactly be inspiring to their pitching staff. silva, batista, and washburn have been atrocious. bedard and felix have obviously pitched below their standards. their bullpen hands out free passes like they get paid to do it.

maybe ichiro is trying to talk his way off the sinking ship.
Rate this thread:
5 (top notch)
4 (even better)
3 (good stuff)
2 (lightweight)
1 (no value)
If you wish, you may rate this thread on scale of 1-5. Ratings should indicate how valuable or interesting you believe this thread would be to other users of this forum. A '5' means that this thread is a 'must read'. A '1' means that this is a complete waste of time.

If you have previously rated this thread, rating it again will delete your previous rating.

If you do not want to rate this thread, but want to see how others have rated it, then click the button without entering a rating, or else click here.

RotoGuru Baseball Forum

View the Forum Registry

XML Get RSS Feed for this thread


Self-edit this thread




Post a reply to this message: (But first, how about checking out this sponsor?)

Name:
Email:
Message:
Click here to create and insert a link
Click here to insert a block of hidden (spoiler) text
Click here to insert a random spelling of Mientkiewicz
Ignore line feeds? no (typical)   yes (for HTML table input)


Viewing statistics for this thread
Period# Views# Users
Last hour11
Last 24 hours11
Last 7 days54
Last 30 days1412
Since Mar 1, 200733501220