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Subject: question about earned runs
Posted by: wiggs
- [2542623] Thu, Sep 06, 2007, 16:27
How were the runs today against Jenks earned? I believe the 1st run got on by an error by the 2nd baseman. If that error doesnt happen the 2nd run doesnt score either. Am I missing something? |
| 1 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Sep 06, 2007, 16:32
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Tigers 9th
Luis Terrero in right
Timo Perez hit for Ryan Raburn
Bobby Jenks pitching:
Timo Perez: Perez safe at first on 2nd baseman Richar's throwing error, Perez to second.
Mike Rabelo: Bunt foul, Ball, Pickoff attempt, Bunt foul, Rabelo sacrificed to pitcher, Perez to third
Sean Casey hit for Ramon Santiago
Cameron Maybin ran for Timo Perez.
Sean Casey: Ball, Casey singled to left, Maybin scored
Omar Infante ran for Sean Casey.
Brandon Inge: Foul, Foul, Inge grounded out to catcher, Infante to second.
Curtis Granderson: Foul, Ball, Strike looking, Foul, Foul, Granderson hit by pitch.
Placido Polanco: Polanco singled to left, Infante scored, Granderson to second
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| 2 | JeffG
Leader
ID: 01584348
Thu, Sep 06, 2007, 16:34
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CBS recap
Pinch-hitter Timo Perez reached on an infield single off Jenks leading off the ninth and advanced when the throw from second baseman Danny Richar went into Chicago's dugout for an error.
The hitter was Jenk's responsibility because he hit an infield single. The error only allowed him to advance to second.
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| 3 | Perm Dude
ID: 46827610
Thu, Sep 06, 2007, 16:35
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The scorer had Perez safe at first on a single, then going to second on the throw.
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| 4 | Perm Dude
ID: 46827610
Thu, Sep 06, 2007, 16:36
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Oops--should have refreshed the page!
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| 5 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Sep 06, 2007, 16:36
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Looks to me that they should be unearned.
Perez got on base instead of Out 1.
Rabelo is out which would have been Out 2 (would be OUT 1 goes to 3rd)
Casey's single scores a run (unearned since shouldn't have been on base on the first place).
Inge is out which would have been OUT 3. Therefore all future runs are unearned.
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| 6 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Sep 06, 2007, 16:40
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ESPN says it was an infield single and an error. That would change those runs to unearned. CBS was the first post about a straight error.
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| 7 | wiggs
ID: 2542623
Thu, Sep 06, 2007, 16:41
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so different sites show different results. What sucks for me is i am playing in a cbs league and i got crushed on that
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| 8 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Sep 06, 2007, 16:47
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post 1 is the pbp from cbs. So maybe cbs is the one that is wrong and they are earned afterall.
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| 9 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Sep 06, 2007, 18:02
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Bobby Jenks-R- White Sox Sep. 6 - 4:11 pm et
Bobby Jenks was handed a blown save and a loss after giving up two runs in the ninth Thursday against the Tigers.
Jenks deserved a lot better. Timo Perez started the inning with a grounder to second that Danny Richar made a play on but then threw wide of first base. Paul Konerko compounded the mistake by trying to stay on the bag and haul in the throw. After it got by him, the tying run advanced to second base. Perez was credited with a single even though the throw clearly would have had him had it been on target. A sac bunt and then a fairly routine grounder through the drawn-in infield followed, tying the game. A groundout put the winning run on second, and after a HBP, Placido Polanco got a grounder past Juan Uribe to win in. The runs were the first allowed by Jenks since July 17.
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| 10 | wiggs
ID: 2542623
Thu, Sep 06, 2007, 18:07
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that makes no sense, why would they give him a hit on that if a good throw clearly gets him?
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| 11 | Da Bomb
Donor
ID: 487112814
Thu, Sep 06, 2007, 19:11
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that makes no sense, why would they give him a hit on that if a good throw clearly gets him?
A good throw would have gotten him out, but it would have been a very difficult play to make and one where a two base error could not be charged.
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| 12 | wiggs
ID: 2542623
Thu, Sep 06, 2007, 20:12
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i still dont understand, to me if you clearly have someone with a good throw make the throw and get the out, if you throw it away it doesnt matter if they get 1 base or 2 an error is an error.
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| 13 | Perm Dude
ID: 46827610
Thu, Sep 06, 2007, 23:39
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According to the scorer, the throw, if on-target, would not have gotten him. I guess that's what you mean by "good throw" yes?
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| 14 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 01629107
Fri, Sep 07, 2007, 01:48
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I'm pretty sure that if the fielder must throw from a difficult position to get rid of the ball in time on a bang bang play, the scorer might not assume an on-target throw.
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| 15 | Mark L
ID: 25155512
Fri, Sep 07, 2007, 09:45
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I am going from memory here, but I think the scoring rule on errors is to the effect that an error is charged if a batter reaches base or a runner advances if the play would have been made with "ordinary effort" on the fielders' part. So if the scorer thinks that "ordinary effort" would not have resulted in an out, then he does not charge the fielder with an error.
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| 16 | JeffG
Leader
ID: 01584348
Fri, Sep 07, 2007, 10:59
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If you want to see the infield single...
Go to http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/index.jsp?c_id=det
On the front page there are 6 rotating stories. The one titled "Tigers Battle Back..." Has a link next to a little video camera icon labeled "Tiger's Two Run Ninth".
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| 17 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 454491514
Fri, Sep 07, 2007, 17:47
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The 2bman fielded that ball with his back to 1b. He had to spin and throw in the same motion to get rid of the ball in time. The scorer can't assume an accurate throw on that play.
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| 18 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Sep 07, 2007, 19:18
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I agree that a ddecent through gets him by at least a step, but it was a tough get.
link
Can understand why a hit and an error was charged on this particular play even though he would have been out. If he had stopped to plant his feet to ensure an accurate throw then maybe the guy beats it out for a hit afterall.
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