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Subject: One game playoff SD vs Rockies...final play
Posted by: ChicagoTRS
- [344311322] Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 00:28
Wow...that was a bad call at the end of the game...never looked like Holliday got the plate and the ump did not call him safe until probably 5 seconds after the play. They probably win anyway...just do not like to see a bad call like that in a critical situation. |
| 1 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 00:36
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I don't think he touched it. But aft rhe got blocked there was some follow through where he could have, but the camera angles shown do not show him touching the plate. I assumed he was out when the ump waited, but it was more like 2 seconds. Still seemed like 5!
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| 2 | Da Bomb
Donor
ID: 487112814
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 00:48
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I wouldn't be quick to say they would've won anyway. If the correct call was made (out) it would have been a tie game with a runner on first (maybe second if Helton tags on the play) and one out.
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| 3 | Punk42AE
Donor
ID: 036635522
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 01:03
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Would have been two outs.
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| 4 | Bond, James Bond
Donor
ID: 04352469
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 01:08
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I agree with Da Bomb here. If he's ruled out at the plate---and it certainly seemed like he was----then that changes the whole scenerio of the inning.
Having said that, it was obviously a bang-bang play and with the viewpoint that the ump had, I can't blame him for ruling Mr. MVP safe. In fact, we've had the liberty to see the replay over and over and over again and STILL none of us can be 100% sure of what actually transpired.
Is baseball simply a game of inches? Looks like it too me.
Simply, it will go down into ESPN's Instant Classics selections and rightly so. A great ending to a great regular season. Hope the playoffs are this exciting!
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| 5 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 01:34
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At first look I htought he was out. Then I hought he was safe as after his hand got stepped on, itappeared from the above camera anle that he might have continued to slide over the plate. But after watching it a couple dozen times, I don't think he touched the plate. I thnk McClelland had the best look at it though.
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| 6 | Da Bomb
Donor
ID: 487112814
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 01:37
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I see now that Helton was not tagging on the play. Could have been a costly error if Holliday was called out.
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| 7 | holt
ID: 587112719
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 03:15
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I didn't think the ump was in a very good position to make the call. It did look like he was out.
Holliday must have been seeing stars, because he really should have reached over to touch the plate before he could be tagged. Pain isn't enough of an excuse to just lay there and be tagged. Luckily for him and the rockies the ump blew the call.
btw - I'm happy to see the Rockies make it. I'm not really a fan, but what a great run they made. This is a long time coming for Helton.
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| 8 | KrazyKoalaBears
ID: 228512619
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 08:57
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Went to sleep early and didn't get to see the end of the game, but I just watched the video. My thoughts, as someone who had no real rooting interest:
1. It wasn't clear to me whether or not he was safe. Even after watching it in slow motion over and over and over again, I can't be 100% certain. In the low 3rd base angle, I think he misses it. But in the high broadcaster's angle, I think he drags Barrett's foot across the plate, meaning his hand would have touched the plate. In the end, I don't see anything one way or the other, so I stick by what the ump said as he had just as good an angle as anybody else.
2. He may just be playing nice guy, but Bud Black said, "It looked to me like he did get it." He certainly didn't HAVE to say that. There are a lot of things he could have said differently if he truly questioned the call.
3. It looked to me like the reason the ump waited so long to make the call (it was 2 seconds from initial touch to call) was because that was how long it took to see that Barrett had not held on to the ball. If you keep this in mind and watch just the ump (ignore Holliday, Barrett, and the play), you'll see that the ump watches Holliday slide through the plate completely at first. I would guess at that point that he considered the play and thought Holliday was out. But, then he looks up and sees Barrett lost the ball and right after that, he calls Holliday safe. Everybody wants an instantaneous call, but that's not the way every call can be made. In this instance, the ump had to wait to assess the full situation before he could make his call. What kind of uproar would there be if he made an instant call of out and then all the replays showed the ball coming out?
4. I didn't think the ump was in a very good position to make the call. From what I saw, the ump was in a pretty standard position for that call. It may not have been the best possible position for that particular call, but I don't know that there would have been any great angle for that play. Maybe if he were on the infield grass towards the 3rd base side, but you'd never see that. Typically, a player will try to get his hand between the legs of the catcher and the ump had a perfect angle for that. It just didn't work out this time.
In the end, it may be a controversial call, but I think that's more because you can twist the video to whatever argument you want ("He's out!" or "He's safe!") than anything else. That's the advantage of inconclusive video with this sort of thing. This is an "argument" that will never be completely settled because there's no video that will ever show the result conclusively. With that sort of situation, I defer to the call on the field (like football's instant replay), but others will continue the debate, I'm sure.
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| 9 | J
Leader
ID: 049346417
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 09:41
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What was Holliday thinking sliding head first????
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| 10 | Chuck
ID: 54733162
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 09:46
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I am pretty sure that the non-HR earlier in the game was a HR, which basically would have made extra innings a moot point. I re-watched the "non-HR multiple times, and it clearly disappeared behind the yellow line before bouncing back onto the field, confirming the fans' story that it hit off a railing behind the yellow line.
I do think Holliday was out at the plate, but there was nothing clear to me that I can say that with 100% conviction. However, I am pretty certain (like, 99.99%) that it was a HR earlier in the game, so those 2 calls balanced out.
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| 11 | blue hen
ID: 16322314
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 09:57
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This game was kind of like The Departed. About as good as it gets, but the ending sucked.
Although the Rockies deserved it. I'm happy they'll get to lose in the NLDS.
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| 12 | J
Leader
ID: 049346417
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 10:05
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Yeah right, I think the Rockies have the best shot at the World Series of all the NL teams.
I'm all aboard that bandwagon!!!
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| 13 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Oct 02, 2007, 10:25
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I think McClelland was in the ebst posistion to see the play.
Nice post KKB.
Re: 10 Hershiser and Ripkin both said that the fence that the ball hit is attached to the yellow cushion, therefore when the ball hits it, it is considered to be all in the same. Now I am guessing that some official told them that. I am not buying it. I've always heard that if the ball clears the yellow line it is a HR. This ball certainly did that. However, if that is the ground rule of the park, then I accept it as given. If it's not specified as such, then it's a HR IMM. I am doubting it's specified or Hurdle wouldn't have had an argument.
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