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Subject: Yankee 2008 Offseason Thread
Posted by: Great One
- Sustainer [053272014] Tue, Oct 09, 2007, 09:04
Always enjoy starting this thread...
Is it the end for Torre?
Is it the end for A-Rod? |
Only the 50 most recent replies are currently shown. Click on this text to display hidden posts as well.
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| 232 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 15:24
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I am not exactly sure how the law works, but from what I understand, if you work in different states some states make you pay taxes in that state for any day you work in that state. Also, I believe you have to pay taxes as well to the state where your company is headquartered. Then you also have to pay taxes to your home state and locality--if different--on your income taxes. Then if your home state has an agreement with the states where you were taxed, you have to file returns in those states as well. It's pretty messed up as it's you don't get all the money back like you should and you're in a sense getting taxed multiple times. Many athletes have their permanent addresses in a state with no state income taxes (like Florida) to save them a bundle of money.
It's pretty complicated, but I'm sure Jeter has an accountant that handles (or should have handled) all of that.
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| 233 | Flying Polack
Sustainer
ID: 378582811
Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 15:26
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Oops, I meant 81/162. I don't see how Jeter could get out of paying at least half his baseball income to NY/NYC. Whether Florida is his official residence or not.
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| 234 | Flying Polack
Sustainer
ID: 378582811
Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 15:30
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I always assumed they lived in Florida to avoid state taxes on endorsements and investments, etc...
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| 235 | Gman15
ID: 521081511
Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 15:33
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For NY personal income tax purposes, it looks like an athlete can use games played in NY to total games played (including exihibition games). As Razor said, I'm sure Jeter has an accountant that will figure out the best possible allocation for him.
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| 236 | Gman15
ID: 521081511
Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 15:37
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I mean Ref, not Razor. Sorry Ref.
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| 237 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 17:17
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It is my understanding that athletes only get paid their salary during the season. Preseason and exhibiiton games are apparenlty on a per diem basis and I think everyone gets the same amount during that time.
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| 238 | Perm Dude
ID: 3110341616
Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 17:34
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I was under the impression that they get paid all year long--it is certainly better tax-wise to do it over the whole year.
I just sent a note to the MLBPA with that question--will post if they respond.
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| 239 | BigBobE
ID: 2894997
Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 20:18
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RE : 237, 238
I was a bank account rep for pro sports teams a few years back. They were paid on the 15th and the 30th, all year...
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| 240 | Perm Dude
ID: 3110341616
Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 20:22
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Thanks, Bob!
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| 241 | Perm Dude
ID: 3110341616
Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 20:48
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Admin judge order
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| 242 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313
Sat, Nov 17, 2007, 12:38
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Some hope restored:
NYDN source: The Yankees are not engaged in talks to bring Mike Lowell to New York to play first base There have been several recent reports that the Yanks, who had contacted Lowell about third base when they believed they had a vacancy there, were pursuing Lowell with the caveat that he move across the diamond. One Boston TV station reported the Yankees had made a four-year offer worth $50 million-$55 million to the 33-year-old. That report, according to a source, was "pure fantasy." The Yankees already have Andy Phillips, Shelley Duncan and Jason Giambi to use at first base and, according to a source, don't want to make a major investment in another player at first, especially if that player would have to switch positions to play there.
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| 243 | walk
ID: 4711118
Sat, Dec 01, 2007, 09:13
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NY Daily News is reporting that the NYY have offered Phil Hughes (and Melky and another non Job, Kennedy minor league pitcher) to the Twins for Johan. I am ambivalent. Santana is tops, but I'd rather keep the young talent and build with it. Hughes might not ever pan out, that can happen with any player. Santana's arm might fall off (same with Hughes). Still, I think it's now going to happen. Please discuss.
Yanks Offer Hughes
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| 244 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313
Sat, Dec 01, 2007, 11:03
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ambivalent.
Same here. The biggest reason for the Yankees to covet him is the logic that he should theoretically make them tougher to beat in a playoff series. His playoff record in 5 career starts is pretty good, especially considering that 4 of those starts came against the Yankees in 2003 and 2004: 27.2ip, 28h, 9er, 8bb, 26k.
His smallish frame for a pitcher worries me a little, as strikeout pitchers who aren't big hosses tend to be more likely to develop arm trouble. At 29, he might be just entering the danger zone.
But the real issue for me is sacrificing the pride associated with boasting a roster loaded with homegrown talent and Melky Cabrera is a part of that, too. This move would also require the Yankees to find someone to play CF and it doesn't look like the farm system has any strong candidates. Tabata isn't close to ready and Justin Christian might be worth a look but chances are they'd have to go out and get someone. If this deal happens, say hello to Andruw Jones. Although coming off a poor season, Jones might only be looking for a 1 year deal, anyway. Still, this isn't quite the way I hoped the winter would go.
But again... with Pettitte looking more likely to retire... damn ambivalence!
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| 245 | Razor
ID: 301151110
Sat, Dec 01, 2007, 11:51
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Santana is the best pitcher in baseball. This is not some #1 starter. This is THE #1 starter. It's like getting Maddux, Johnson or Clemens in their primes.
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| 246 | Perm Dude
ID: 2710413011
Sat, Dec 01, 2007, 15:00
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I agree. And I don't think there is a reticence about giving up homegrown talent on the part of the Yankees. They are just lowballing the Twins.
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| 247 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313
Sat, Dec 01, 2007, 15:13
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How is this lowballing?
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| 248 | clv
Sustainer
ID: 5911351713
Sat, Dec 01, 2007, 15:50
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THIS certainly isn't lowballing...WOW!!!
You've Got To Be Kidding Me!!!
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| 249 | Perm Dude
ID: 2710413011
Sat, Dec 01, 2007, 16:06
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How is this lowballing?
Prospects for the #1 pitcher in all of baseball is lowballing, IMO, particularly since the Twins already made moves for three very good young players.
Without a plug & play pitcher the Twins lose, IMO. Hughes is, at best, a #4 pitcher right now, and has yet to prove himself at the ML level. Santana is 28 years old, and entering his prime, believe it or not. Baring injury, Santana is likely to be a top MLB pitcher for the next 4-5 seasons.
I'm not discounting the prospects, but Santana has proven his mettle to be the top guy in all of baseball. The rest have the tools to do the job and that's all.
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| 250 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313
Sat, Dec 01, 2007, 16:10
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I'm under the impression that prospects are exactly what the Twins are asking for. The Twins don't expect to be offered Josh Beckett or Albert Pujols for Johan Santana.
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| 251 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313
Sat, Dec 01, 2007, 16:24
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re post 249
Whether the Mets would offer Reyes for Santana has been a major topic of local discussion since the beginning of the playoffs. Earlier this year (and also in the past week, I believe) The Mets said that he and Wright are untouchable.
I think I'd like to see Santana go to the Mets. Gets the Red Sox out of the running and its a place where a pitcher can really thrive. Well, Shea is a place where pitchers thrive. I guess Citi Field remains to be seen.
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| 252 | Perm Dude
ID: 2710413011
Sat, Dec 01, 2007, 16:26
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I don't know that we know what they asked for, "exactly." My understanding is that earlier rumors included Cano, for example, so obviously the offer we're now seeing is a compromise offer, not one that is what the Twins asked for originally.
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| 253 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 01629107
Sat, Dec 01, 2007, 20:42
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Well i guess everyone is gonna lowball them. They know they'll lose this awesome commodity in a year and have made it clear that they might sacrifice the chance of putting it all together in 2008 to trade it in for the best inexpensive long term package possible.
So whatever they get, they won't be able to plug and play talent value equal to Santana.
The NYDN said this week that the Twins are not interested in Chien Ming Wang as any part of the package. I know a lot of people are down on Wang but since he arrived he's kept his ERA and WHIP respectable in the American League and he doesn't give up extra base hits - in his career he's kept opposing hitters to a .371 SLG. His .368 SLG allowed was 7th best among AL starters. Wang is two years younger than Santana and will make just over $500k this year and should remain relatively inexpensive for another 2-3 years. He'll never likely be an ace, but he's a young and established #2 quality starter with his prime years in front of him.
I don't think the Twins are necessarily demanding talent with a great chance for high-level play in 2008. I think their interests are more long-term.
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| 254 | Perm Dude
ID: 2710413011
Sat, Dec 01, 2007, 22:15
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So whatever they get, they won't be able to plug and play talent value equal to Santana
Oh, I'm not denying that. But an established front-of-the-order pitcher would seem to be in order, IMO.
I like Wang--the last couple of seasons he stepped into the breach, as it were, and kept the Yankees in games that other starters were wilting in. And doing it in New York City really means something, IMO.
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| 255 | walk
ID: 4711118
Sun, Dec 02, 2007, 15:21
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I expect this trade to be made imminently, either with the sox or the yanks. NY Times today says the Twins want Hughes, Melky AND Kennedy cos they don't think Melky is anything significant. NYY will not give them two of their top pitching prospects they say. If the twins don't flex on this, they will move on to Haren.
Twins Looking to Up Ante for Santana
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| 256 | Seattle Zen
ID: 529121611
Mon, Dec 03, 2007, 00:07
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As a Twins fan, here are the deals I would like to see, in order:
1. Mets give us Jose Reyes and ...a ham sandwich.
2. Red Sox give us Jacoby Ellsbury and Clay Bucholtz. Look, this is Johan Santana. No one is going to beat the four-headed hydra that is John, Beckett, Dice-K, and Schilling. You will own the AL East for the next four years, period. Jacoby and Clay are hardly a high price to pay to become a dynasty, they are unknowns.
3. Yankees give us Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera, and Ian Kennedy. Hey, Melky is an average outfielder and will never be anything more. Hughes as great potential, but has but a sliver of a chance of being as good as Johan. Johan's next four years will very likely better than anything Hughes ever produces. The yanks need to make this deal to keep Johan out of Boston because their goose will be cooked if he ends up there.
4. Yankees give us Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera, and a ham sandwich, but one from Carnegie Deli. Of the prospects offered, I value Hughes more than Bucholtz or Ellesby or Lester.
5. Sox give us Ellesby & Lester and some throw in. Again, miss out on this opportunity now & you'll end up looking like the Colts looking at the Patriots with Randy Moss shredding the league apart. Keep the Yankees down for good, please!
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| 257 | walk
ID: 2530286
Mon, Dec 03, 2007, 06:05
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SZ, I must say, the rationale for what you want as Twins fan does not seemingly come from value but from the other teams' outcomes (e.g. bosox be dominant for four years; NYY keeping Johan out of boston). On the one hand, market forces dictate price, so I get that element of the economics, but on the other hand, value is absolute. If you want to extend your logic, I think both AL East teams can offer less cos we are then saving the Twins major Johan $ for 2008 and taking on major costs ourselves...you'd have to factor that in and lower the value of the guys the Twins are getting if you consider all of the eco factors.
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| 258 | walk
ID: 2530286
Mon, Dec 03, 2007, 06:06
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ESPN: Sources say Sox Offer Elsbury
...but they would not give Elsbury AND Lester together.
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| 259 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 01629107
Mon, Dec 03, 2007, 10:27
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Yanks are out of the Santana bidding if teh Twins don't accept their offer by tonight. "I'm not going to be played against the Red Sox. That's not something I'll do. That's not something the Yankees should ever do, and that's I think what they're trying to do now," Steinbrenner told the Associated Press Sunday. "So if they want the best offer that has been offered to them, then they need to make up their minds."
Late last week, the Yankees reached the decision internally to supplement their pitch for Santana with right-hander Phil Hughes, the club's first round draft selection in 2004 and widely considered one of baseball's top pitching prospects.
New York's latest -- and, with Steinbrenner's statement, apparently final -- offer for Santana is believed to consist of Hughes, outfielder Melky Cabrera and a mid-level Minor League prospect that Minnesota would select from a group.
Time could be of the essence to Minnesota, especially with new developments arising daily. FOXSports.com reported Sunday that Santana has informed the Twins he would not consider waiving his no-trade clause during the season, creating more of a sense of urgency.
More: Pettitte is back for 2008!
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| 260 | walk
ID: 2530286
Mon, Dec 03, 2007, 13:27
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Good new about Pettitte. He's clutch, and would be a good mentor to whatever young arms are left after any trading (joke intended). I read in the NY Times today that the As are indicating that they would want both Hughes and Kennedy for Haren, and the NYY are already saying they would not do that.
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| 261 | Perm Dude
ID: 51111428
Mon, Dec 03, 2007, 13:31
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I'm not going to be played against the Red Sox...
We're the Yankees, dammit! We get the first pick!
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| 262 | Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Dec 03, 2007, 13:41
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Such a biased interpretation, PD! I felt drawing a line in the sand was a completely appropriate stance given the situation.
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| 263 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 01629107
Mon, Dec 03, 2007, 14:28
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If anyone needed another assurance that this is no longer the George Steinbrenner yankees, there it is.
here's some more from the same article:We'll see how it goes, but this is not an act. It's not a bluff. It's just reality," Steinbrenner said. "Because as much as I want Santana, and you can make that clear -- for his sake, to know that I do want him -- but the fact is that I'm not going to play the game.
"We've made them the best offer. And at this point, it's not going to get any better. So they can decide. At this point, it's up to them. I don't think they want to lose us in this thing, obviously. Nobody wants to lose the Yankees in a negotiation."
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| 264 | Perm Dude
ID: 51111428
Mon, Dec 03, 2007, 14:40
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LOL, Species! Yeah, getting miffed about being in a bidding war is appropriate. You do what is best for your team, and if you have to get into an open bidding war with another team (as, say, every onther MLB team has to do) you suck it up and do what is best for your team.
I agree with you MITH--this is not George Steinbrenner's team. But the end makes my point: "Nobody wants to lose the Yankees in a negotiation." LOL! Except anyone who gets a better offer elsewhere, I suppose.
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| 265 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 01629107
Mon, Dec 03, 2007, 14:52
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I don't disagree with you PD but such an ultimatum is not an unreasonable position to take. And I like the tough guy posture, even if the quote is a little silly.
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| 266 | Perm Dude
ID: 51111428
Mon, Dec 03, 2007, 14:54
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Sure, but doing so publicly adds the arrogant dimension to it. You can be tough in negotiations, but doing so in public while saying the things they are saying...the Yankees are turning into Red Sox fans!
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| 267 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 01629107
Mon, Dec 03, 2007, 15:16
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I take no issue with that type of arrogance from the front office. Bullish is just fine when you're dealing from a position of such strength as the Yankees currently are. I'd bet Hank wouldn't have offered Hughes this weekend of he knew Pettitte was returning. He won't pull it back now but with the priority of landing another starter covered, he can demand a yes or no answer now and walk away happy with either result.
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| 268 | Perm Dude
ID: 51111428
Mon, Dec 03, 2007, 15:31
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I'm not so sure that the Yankees are dealing with a position of strength (that is, they can do without Santana). If so, they wouldn't get all pissy about the Sox being in it and try to take their ball and go home.
I think you might be right about Hughes, but that would just make an alternative offer even less enticing to the Twins. And if the offer isn't one the Yankees want they can simply, and privately, withdraw the offer. They didn't have to draw a bright and public line.
In other words, the arrogance isn't in the offer. It is in how they choose to negotiate, and what words they are making public.
All just my opinion, of course. The Yankees have some excellent young pitchers (Wang/Hughes/Chamberlain should be very interesting to watch). But they are acting as though they already have three Santanas in their rotation, when they might be Scott Sanderson, Hideki Irabu, and/or Roger Clemens (year 2001). We just don't know!
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| 269 | Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Dec 03, 2007, 16:38
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PD said: But the end makes my point: "Nobody wants to lose the Yankees in a negotiation." LOL! Except anyone who gets a better offer elsewhere, I suppose.
I'm curious as to what you find so funny about this quote - I'd imagine I mistook your meaning. Do you think what he said isn't true? Wasn't the A-Rod situation a perfect example of the need for the market to have the Yankees bidding? With no NYY in the A-Rod market, Boras got caught with his pants down overestimating the REST of the market. In this situation, Minnesota is quite expertly trying to play off of two of the biggest rivals in the game to their own benefit. But if the Yankees are all of a sudden NOT in the bidding, their leverage against Boston (and others) is severely lowered.
While true there is a degree of truth to that statement being arrogant, it's also a true statement, as indicated by the A-Rod episode.
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| 270 | Perm Dude
ID: 51111428
Mon, Dec 03, 2007, 16:42
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I'm not sure what you mean. There have been several ARod situations, the latest one being ARod, who wanted to stay in NY, slapping his agent around a bit. There was no market involved.
This isn't really analogous to an open bidding in which the Yankees decide they want to publicly pull out because they haven't gotten what they want right away.
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| 271 | Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Dec 03, 2007, 17:07
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I am focusing on the A-Rod opting out, becoming a free agent, then going back to the Yankees "episode".
No market involved? The man was officially a free agent. I think you are underestimating what happened. From my view Boras overplayed his hand completely. When he had A-Rod opt out he began sniffing around for what other teams would offer. After a period of time, when it became very clear that nobody else was going to come close to the Yankees' initial extension offer, and he communicated that to A-Rod, they came back to the Yankees because they would be the only team to approach the initial extension offer.
I used that to illustrate my thought that what Hank side, while certainly slightly arrogant, was also very true. Every agent would likely want the Yankees involved in a free agent negotiation, as it might make that other team bite the bullet on a bigger offer. Every GM would probably like to have the Yankees involved in trade negotiations, as they can play the Yankees off of the other teams from which they are trying to extract the best package. Seems pretty simple to me.
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| 272 | Perm Dude
ID: 51111428
Mon, Dec 03, 2007, 17:18
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I say there was no market involved, because while ARod was technically a free agent, he wasn't interested in playing for anyone else. In fact, the hubbub was all caused by Boras trying to make it a market issue. We didn't receive any indication from ARod himself that he wasn't happy to be in NY--all the crap was coming from Boras, who seemed to be saying so to get a bidding war started.
At the time I applauded the move by the Yankees, since Boras needs to get knocked down a few pegs, IMO.
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| 273 | Seward Norse
ID: 297412913
Tue, Dec 04, 2007, 11:18
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How do the Yankees expect to compete with Boston's staff(including Johan)? Seems like the deadline was a very poor decision...
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| 274 | walk
ID: 2530286
Tue, Dec 04, 2007, 12:00
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Well, by logic, how can anyone compete with Boston's staff? As long as there is a wild card, there's room for two teams. If there was no wildcard, we'd have to get Santana, no question cos Boston's staff would then be too tough for us to get into the playoffs. Otherwise, the issue becomes a larger one for any team in the playoffs...how to beat a staff of Santana, Beckett, Schilling and DiceK in the playoffs.
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| 275 | Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Tue, Dec 04, 2007, 13:51
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Interesting note - Ellsbury fired his agent and hired Boras...
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| 276 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 01629107
Mon, Dec 10, 2007, 01:49
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Yanks sign LaTroy Hawkins for 1 year at $3.75m. He is expected to fill the role of right-hander Luis Vizcaino, who declined the Yankees' offer of salary arbitration last week. Vizcaino, who is seeking a multiyear contract, is expected to sign elsewhere.
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| 277 | Seattle Zen
ID: 49112418
Mon, Dec 10, 2007, 12:13
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I have a fond place in my heart for LaTroy. As a Twins fan, I remember him as our top prospect many years ago. I remember his debut up in The Show... it wasn't pretty. He was seriously overthrowing, really wild. He was eventually put in the pen because he was absolutely awful as a starter. With hopes of being a closer someday, he looked decent in 2000, but when elevated to closer in 2001, he was awful. It seems that he doesn't handle pressure well.
Well, he's older now, but Yankee fans are proud of the fact that playing in the Bronx hyper intense. I hope LaTroy doesn't fold, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did.
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| 278 | clv@folks'
ID: 1711132312
Fri, Dec 14, 2007, 22:27
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Better step it up now Boss Jr. With Haren off the market, there's no longer a fall-back plan...bet Bedard's a Dodger before Monday.
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| 279 | rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Sat, Mar 15, 2008, 20:12
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"I don't want these teams in general to forget who subsidizes a lot of them, and it's the Yankees, the Red Sox, Dodgers, Mets," he said to The New York Post. "I would prefer if teams want to target the Yankees that they at least start giving some of that revenue sharing and luxury tax money back. From an owner's point of view, that's my point."
link
Sure hank. Maybe the 4 of you could go take your ball and go home. I'm sure yhou'd be better off by yourselves than with the TBs. Pitts, FLA's, MInn's, SEA's, etc... of the world. For God's sake, who is gonna pay to watch LA V. NY beat up on each other for the next 20 years?
As a PIT fan, I laugh each year at the NY and LaD offseason thread where you debate how many 10's of millions you sould pay Jorge or Roger or Pedro or how much is Johan worth. Do you realize, Pitt needs $500m contract offer to get Johan to retunr a phone call?
So, full of yourselves, Hanks of the world. good luck when the league shrinks to 6 teams.
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| 280 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 01629107
Sun, Mar 16, 2008, 09:02
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LOL! As long as there's someone to reign in free spending impulses he seems to have inherited from his father, I think I'm going to like the Hank Steinbrenner era.
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| 281 | Mith
ID: 4310402110
Mon, Apr 01, 2013, 13:12
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How the Arod deal went down.
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