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Subject: Bonds Indicted Posted by: Ref - Donor [539581218] Thu, Nov 15, 2007, 18:34 A federal grand jury in San Francisco has indicted veteran outfielder and MLB home run leader Barry Bonds on perjury and obstruction of justice charges in the culmination of a four-year investigation. STORY | |||||||
| 1 | Species Dude ID: 07724916 Thu, Nov 15, 2007, 19:12 |
On ESPN.com is a PDF copy of the indictment itself. Outside of a variety of evasive answers to various questions, the indictment makes the following statement of fact (according to them): "9. During the criminal investigation, evidence was obtained including positive tests for the presence of anabolic steroids and other performance-enhancing substances for Bonds and other professional athletes" (emphasis added) I wonder where he got nailed with the positive test...... | ||||||
| 2 | Bond, James Bond Donor ID: 04352469 Thu, Nov 15, 2007, 19:18 |
Bonds did steriods???? OMG! What is this world coming to? ;) Seriously, what is the usual legal scenerio with this type of formal accusation? I'd doubt very much he'd ever go to trial so I suspect he'll plea-bargain this out......unless he truly is innocent. I don't know much about California law but I reckon we won't see the end of this for at least a couple of years, if that. | ||||||
| 3 | Mike D Leader ID: 041831612 Thu, Nov 15, 2007, 19:19 |
Is this big news? I think a lot of people don't care that much about Bonds anymore. Others already believed him to be guilty anyway. Most importantly (?), "The president is very disappointed to hear this," Bush spokesman Tony Fratto said. | ||||||
| 4 | mjd Leader ID: 501381415 Thu, Nov 15, 2007, 19:19 |
Thought I heard someone on ESPN say from BALCO records. In a related story, a judge has ordered Bond's former trainer, Greg Anderson, released from prison. What a coincidence. | ||||||
| 5 | Ref Donor ID: 539581218 Thu, Nov 15, 2007, 19:24 | Species, if you go down a little further it shows that Bonds tested positive for steroids yet he says he didn't take steroids, etc. Saying it could be another Barry B. or another BB. | ||||||
| 6 | Perm Dude ID: 5110311519 Thu, Nov 15, 2007, 20:43 |
I thought the positive test was old news. What wasn't clear was Bonds saying how he got it, and wgat he knew. | ||||||
| 7 | Species Dude ID: 07724916 Thu, Nov 15, 2007, 21:25 |
PD - no, a documented, positive test was news to me - I guess I must have missed it - I only recalled all of the conjecture. What was fascinating to me in reading of a positive test was that the lack of a positive test was always, in Bonds' mind, his holy grail of defense. So many times he uttered "I have never tested positive for steroids", as if he was going to go to his grave holding that one fact as the proof he was innocent all along. | ||||||
| 8 | Perm Dude ID: 5110311519 Thu, Nov 15, 2007, 22:02 |
My bad. It was speed that he tested positive for, and attributed it to a substance given to him by a teamate, as I recall. | ||||||
| 9 | Kyle Donor ID: 052753312 Thu, Nov 15, 2007, 22:51 |
I have one word for this. Good. | ||||||
| 10 | Jack Hammers Donor ID: 236482918 Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 00:32 |
Bonds v OJ So much for being able to watch any real sports highlights or news for the next six months | ||||||
| 11 | walk ID: 2530286 Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 06:33 | I feel this is a BFD. I bet hundreds of players were taking drugs like these at one point or another in the 90s and early 2000s, and it's just a big wash. Bonds is the biggest target though, and thus the one they go after. It doesn't feel right unless they uncover all of it, which they can't and won't. | ||||||
| 12 | Khahan ID: 486552412 Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 07:44 |
Some of you guys are missing the point of the indictment. The point is not that he took the drugs. The point is that he lied to a federal grand jury about taking the drugs. His statements always had to do with being given 'flaxseed oil,' and not knowing what he was taking. He always maintained he relied on his trainer's judgement and believed his trainer when give these 'ointments' that they were acceptable to use. He never knew they were anabolic steroids. Yes, he did them and there is proof of that and that is old news. But for the prosecutors, the new news is that they have enough evidence to move forward with (I believe 4) 4 couts of perjury. | ||||||
| 13 | walk ID: 7952415 Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 08:35 | Thanks Khahan. I get your point. I guess my feeling is like "big fcukin deal" he lied about using perf enhancing drugs that a lot of others were also likely using. I just sorta don't care. I wish they'd spend the taxpayers $ to go after pedophiles and other criminals. This gets a big fat retro pass in my book of morals, but that's just my opinion. | ||||||
| 14 | Razor ID: 136523110 Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 09:14 | walk, you see no value in deterring others from using steroids? I would think that anyone who values the integrity of baseball would be pleased that a steroid user, and the most well-known of all of them, is being taken down. | ||||||
| 15 | biliruben ID: 4911361723 Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 09:33 | Happy birthday, Razor! | ||||||
| 16 | walk ID: 7952415 Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 10:01 | I dunno, Razor. Yes, I do see a value to deter others from using steroids. I do. I agree. I just am not a fan of the media exposure and criminal investigations about this past steroid usage. It was not enforced then; it was lax, so let it go, BUT make strong rules NOW and enforce them consistently. Educational programs to the young, etc. The going after Bonds for what he did 3-5 years ago does not resonate with me though. | ||||||
| 17 | Razor ID: 136523110 Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 10:19 | I agree with you in one sense. The damage has already been done. We went through the dog and pony show of pseudo-celebrating Bonds' "accomplishments." This would have been a lot more impactful three or four years ago before he got close to and passed Aaron's record. It's not so much that they are taking him down after the crime; it's by how much after the crime. 2001 would have been perfect. 2008 is a bit late. | ||||||
| 19 | Sludge ID: 177131910 Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 10:25 |
The going after Bonds for what he did 3-5 years ago does not resonate with me though. Let's not forget that the investigation that has culminated in this indictment started 3-4 years ago. | ||||||
| 20 | Ref Donor ID: 539581218 Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 10:46 |
If Greg Anderson would have talked before instead of gone to prison, Bonds wouldn't even have the record. This really isn't about baseball as much as Balco, illegal steroids in this country and illegal performance enhancements in sport worldwide. Bonds is the poster child for that. From what I've ready, not only is it impossible to gain that much LEAN muscle mass at that late age, but his eyes actually got better (byproduct of HGH) and his head even got much larger (byproduct of HGH). Your head doesn't expand by several hat sizes because you've been working out dilignetly in the weight room. Apparently he also tested positive for steroids. Maybe he didn't know it? I don't know, but he always said that he always tested clean. Well MLB didn't even start testing for them until recently and Marion Jones passed 160 steroid tests cleanly since she started taking them. WADA (and esp. Dick Pound) is furious about that. But Balco's main claim to fame was they had steroids that wouldn't be caught on a test. In fact, they may still have that if it wasn't for Trevor Graham (IIRC) who sent a vial of the stuff to authorities. So prosecutors are trying to get to the bottom of things. Bonds was brought in as a customer of BALCO and he lied his ass off. Giambi admitted to everything and proesecutors didn't go after him. If he told the truth, he'd be fine in the eyes of the law. People hate Bonds already. We all know he doped. Baseball didn't suspect Giambi so how would they suspend Bonds. But now that he's facing 30 years...baseball can step in...and they will. I think Bonds is done. | ||||||
| 21 | Perm Dude ID: 171052169 Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 11:09 |
I think that the morals clause might kick in for Bonds. But he's not, as far as I know, under contract with any MLB team, so there is nothing for MLB to do at this point. And indictments aren't the same as convictions, of course. And, as far as I can tell, Bonds has never failed a test for steroids administered by MLB. In the course of doing some readings on this, I found that 104 players (!!) failed tests for performance-enhancing drugs in 2003, the first year they did it. 104! I don't know if these are all players on the ML level or not, but that number astounds me. | ||||||
| 22 | Ref Donor ID: 539581218 Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 11:18 |
PD, the minor leaguers had steroid testing ebfore MLB did and they didn't have a Players agreement, so my guess is those 104 were all MLB players. By agreement, nothing would be done to them and their names wouldn't be released at that time. Selig has the power to suspend Bonds for the "good of the game." Something that I heard last night he was considering (ESPN's Jayson Stark IIRC). I'm guessing he'd be acting on this so quickly because if a team signs him they would be left in the cold if he couldn't play and they had all that money tied up and didn't use it to go after anyone else. | ||||||
| 23 | Perm Dude ID: 171052169 Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 11:43 | Good point, although it should be noted that steroids are just one of many performance-enhancing drugs, so we just don't know how many of those 104 tested positive for steroids. Still, it is a huge number--about 15%. | ||||||
| 24 | Ref Donor ID: 539581218 Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 11:46 |
Bonds' positive tests were administered by BALCO. ESPN's DJ Quinn is saying that Selig won't have to act because no team will touch him and his career is over. | ||||||
| 25 | Perm Dude ID: 171052169 Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 12:02 |
I think that is an incredibly stupid thing for Quinn to say. Suddenly MLB owners have ethics? I think, in fact, this actually makes Bonds more attractive in the market, since all the teams can insert refundable pay clauses into the contract offer now. And since they are, essentially, playing with house money I think there would be several more teams taking a look right now to see how they can do it when this thing starts to edge out of the limelight. | ||||||
| 26 | Ref Donor ID: 539581218 Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 12:20 |
One of the co-authors of the "Game of Shadows" says that BALCO administered "pre-tests" on all of its athletes to see what they were taking before they started putting them on BALCO products. So Bonds was testing positive for the steroids before he even began using with BALCO. Tim Kurkjian also is saying that Bonds career is over. He goes on to say, "I cannot imagine a team signing Barry Bonds to play for them next season." | ||||||
| 27 | GoatLocker Sustainer ID: 060151121 Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 12:44 |
Ref commented on it in 26, but I was just about to say, Read the Book. It lays it all out. Even after they gave them the clear and everything else, BALCO ran standard tests to make sure they would be clean. The real part of this that hasn't broken yet that is still up in the air that could be worse than anything else would be tax evasion charges. Lots of questions as to how many signatures etc he sold to fund his girlfriend and never reported them. This has the potential to be a bigger issue for him than anything else. Cliff | ||||||
| 29 | Razor ID: 136523110 Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 14:00 |
Suddenly MLB owners have ethics? Do you really forsee an owner going after a player who is 43, hated by a majority of fans and is about to go to federal court? This isn't exactly Rafael Furcal getting a DUI. This is Ugueth Urbina stuff. | ||||||
| 30 | Perm Dude ID: 171052169 Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 14:05 |
Attempted murder is the same thing as perjury? I know you don't like the guy, but that's a stretch even for you, Razor! I think every single major league team is watching this, and if any of them could sign Bonds cheaply and know he'll play they would absolutely do it. They owners have three questions: Can he play? Will he play? Can I afford him? That's it. As for the fans, most MLB fans don't give a rat's ass if other teams' fans hate a player on their team. | ||||||
| 31 | walk ID: 7952415 Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 14:21 | LOL, "This is Urbina stuff." Yeah, Razor, I must say, no, it's not. Perjury and potential tax evasion. Bonds is a baseball player. This is like the Bill Clinton impeachment for lying about his blowjob. I burped. | ||||||
| 32 | Sludge ID: 177131910 Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 14:47 |
This is like the Bill Clinton impeachment for lying about his blowjob. I burped. Can we please all agree to stop bringing this up in non-political arenas? To bring it up is, invariably, a show stopper. For anyone to take issue with the example would simply drag the discussion off-topic into a political discussion that has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at hand. | ||||||
| 33 | Razor ID: 136523110 Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 15:27 |
No, I was not comparing the crimes themselves, but rather, the severity of the potential penalty. A better comparison might have been Michael Vick, whose crimes could result in lengthy prison sentences. I think you are way off, PD. Bonds is in too much trouble and too reviled for any owner to touch. Even his own team who put up with his BS for years cut ties with him, and they were not strictly financial. | ||||||
| 34 | walk ID: 7952415 Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 16:03 |
Oh alright Sludge...just making an analogy. Bonds, Bonds, Bonds, Bonds, Bonds Steroids, steroids, steroids, steroids, steroids. okay? back on topic? ;-) walk | ||||||
| 35 | Ref Donor ID: 539581218 Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 16:28 | The man is facing 30 years. Even "super star" rapper lil Kim went to the pokey for a year and a day after pleading guilty to perjury. She was facing 20 years. So it's not like Bonds is going to get off with probation if he's found guilty. Even if he pleads out, it would appear that he's going to be in jail for at least the season--depending on how long it takes for justice to take it's course. | ||||||
| 36 | Frick Donor ID: 3410101718 Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 16:52 |
I found this on another site. 
| ||||||
| 37 | Building 7 ID: 41943112 Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 18:35 |
If the hat doesn't fit, You must not acquit. | ||||||
| 38 | Perm Dude ID: 3110341616 Fri, Nov 16, 2007, 20:47 | Bonds' 19 Lies | ||||||
| 39 | ChicagoTRS ID: 4110481415 Fri, Feb 15, 2008, 13:35 |
Interesting info came out yesterday...Government has a bunch of steroid positive tests from Bonds beginning in 2000. The FBI got them from the material they raided from Balco. Balco was testing Bonds for steroids in 2000 to see if their masking agents were working and if his steroid use could be detected. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/15/BASMUNN9R.DTL | ||||||
| 40 | Seattle Zen ID: 49112418 Fri, Feb 15, 2008, 13:44 |
The FBI got them from the material they raided from Balco. Yeah, I've been reading about this raid. The Feds had asked a judge to grant a warrant allowing them to search BALCO labs for information on 10 players and the court was going to rule on that request when Agent Novitzki and attorneys went to another judge (I'm not remembering if the first court was federal and the second state or if it was the other way around) and sought the same warrant without mentioning that that very issue was being decided in another court. The second court granted the search warrant, Novitzki and goons storm the offices, seize everything, including computer files claiming that they were seizable under the "plain view" doctrine. There will be hell to pay and don't hold your breath waiting for a Bonds perjury conviction. I'm sure I'm getting some facts screwed up and oversimplifying some things, but the gist of the story is Novitzki has little regard for the rule of law and that kills criminal investigations. | ||||||
| 41 | Taxman SuperDude ID: 029463114 Sun, Feb 17, 2008, 01:34 |
SZ Good catch. I posted this in the Mitchell report thread. four federal judges who have condemned the tactics and questioned the candor of the indefatigable IRS agent Novitzky Novitsky has seriously pissed off the Federal District Judge assigned the Bonds perjury trial. Always a bad plan to piss off a Federal Judge. | ||||||
| 42 | Khahan ID: 361271318 Sun, Feb 17, 2008, 11:23 |
With regards to the article Taxman posted in 41: Who'd have thunk it, Barry Bonds becoming a martyr for civil rights and our constitutional rights! | ||||||
| 43 | Perm Dude ID: 53045150 Thu, Jan 15, 2009, 01:49 |
Bonds' defense: "The Clear" was not illegal at the time and is not a steroid.. From reading this article, it looks like Bonds might have a solid case. As well as the problems with the warrant Zen mentions above, Bonds might be able to clear his name legally, anyway. But he'll almost certainly not play again. | ||||||
| 44 | rockafellerskank Dude ID: 27652109 Tue, Feb 17, 2009, 00:39 |
link considering the state of our economy, anyone else annoyed that the $55m cost? it's like spending $50,00 to prosecute a jaywalker. Sure, he's guilty, but it's not worth the outcome to prove it. | ||||||
| 45 | Seattle Zen ID: 131402810 Sat, Feb 28, 2009, 13:06 |
Is that Razor over there at the bar crying into his beer? Looks like the judge called "bullshit" on the State's evidence and their theory of the case in general. Good for her. The Feds were left with so very little, they decided to appeal her rulings, which leads to two things. First, the trial gets put off for at least a year, but even more likely, a whole new US Attorney's office is put into place and they will just drop this whole embarrassing joke of a prosecution. I refuse to read another article on ESPN.com regarding this case. They like Mr. Bonds about as much as the guys at Townhall.com like President Obama and it seriously degrades their reporting. They have a piece there now claiming that the prosecution has a good chance of winning the appeal. RIDICULOUS! Not only would it lose decisively on the merits, but intelligence will prevail and the appeal will be dropped with the whole prosecution. I swear, sometimes ESPN.com acts like a Bible study class for children spending gigabytes railing against such horrible sins like swearing or coveting thine neighbors ass. Then they think they can be cool by having Matthew Berry be a yang to that yin. PUKE. Local Cable Access Quality! | ||||||
| 46 | Perm Dude ID: 5510572522 Fri, Jun 11, 2010, 17:39 | Bonds wins another round | ||||||
| 47 | Seattle Zen ID: 1410391215 Fri, Jun 11, 2010, 17:48 |
First, the trial gets put off for at least a year... Well, I got that much right. | ||||||
| 48 | Ref Donor ID: 539581218 Sat, Jun 12, 2010, 11:49 | My understanding is that the only reason Bonds is "winning" these rounds is because the judge refuses to force the witness from testifying against Bonds. We all know he is refusing to testyfy and has spent time in jail before in contempt from that refusal. If he testifies, Bonds will go down for perjury w/o question. | ||||||
| 49 | Perm Dude ID: 5510572522 Sat, Jun 12, 2010, 13:31 | They might seem like technical points, but they go to heart of a defendant's ability to defend himself. | ||||||
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