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Subject: 2008 Post Season discussion and action.
Posted by: JeffG
- Leader [01584348] Mon, Sep 29, 2008, 10:13
Figured I'd start a thread for some post season chatter.
Welcome to the post season Tampa, and welcome back after a long absence Milwaukee. Also new for the post season is replay reviews for HR calls. The Yankees and Mets are out, Joe Torre is in again. The NLDS is set with Mil vs Phi and LAD vs CHC, and the AL has to decide their AL Central representative today and tomorrow and will have Bos vs LAA and CWS/Min vs TB.
Vegas odds has the Angels 11/4, Chicago 3/1, and Boston and Tampa both 4/1, but just going back over the last few post seasons I think it again is very up in the air for this years title. As Joe Torre used to say, the best teams usually get in, but it is the hottest team that win it all.
MLB will repeat last year's template with the extra off days between games 4 and 5 of the LCS and LDS so the WS can again start on a Wednesday, which can mean long breaks for teams that win in short series like the Rockies had last year. Also, looks like it will be late nights for those East Coasters following the MLB playoffs again this year. Schedule. The Angels first round home games are scheduled for 10PM and 9:30PM, and the Dodgers/Cubs games 2 and 3 are at 9:30PM and 10PM, and with TBS covering the ALCS, if the Angels advance, there may be more late games to come. |
| Only the 50 most recent replies are currently shown. Click on this text to display hidden posts as well. |
| 31 | JTSERB
Donor
ID: 481020120
Tue, Oct 07, 2008, 16:55
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I am rooting for Tampa to win it all, but for obvious drama reasons would like to see the Red Sox play the Dodgers.
I still can't believe that the Cubs crapped the bed again. I have quite a few friends that are die hard Cub fans. After their post season loss this year they truly look like they have had enough. In all the past years they immediately were looking forward to next season. As of now they don't even want baseball to be a sport anymore. I am sure they will be back next year in full force. It's a sickness I tell ya.
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| 32 | Khahan
ID: 1065339
Wed, Oct 08, 2008, 10:42
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This is almost the best final 4 I could have hoped for (would have like the cubbies instead of the dodgers).
I'm a Boston fan and will root for them to win and will be disappointed with anything but a Boston win.
However, if they happen to not win it all then:
1) The Rays are a great story this year and a young and exciting team. I can be very happy for them if they win it all
2) I live near Philly. They are my hometown team. Would be one hell of a party
3) Who cares about the dodgers. If Boston doesn't win but the Dodgers do, my disappointment at not getting the pennant will be the greatest. At least with Philly or Tampa there are some nice positives to offset the loss.
All in all, I'm looking forward to a great set of series. Philadelphia over LA in 6.
The Boston fan in me says they will in win in 5. But the hardcore baseball fan in my says that series is a coinflip.
I think Philadelphia will have their hands full against either AL team.
boston wis the WS over Philadelphia in 5.
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| 33 | Razor
ID: 545172413
Wed, Oct 08, 2008, 10:49
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Boston fans still underestimating Manny...tsk, tsk.
On paper, we're a better team than Philly on the strength of our pitching staff. Let's hope that the old adage holds true that pitching wins in the playoffs because outside of Hamels, the Phillies have a weak rotation.
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| 34 | Khahan
ID: 1065339
Wed, Oct 08, 2008, 10:57
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Manny's line should read: 0-0 4BB
Take him out of the game and who's left in that line up?
Trust me, I'm not underestimating Manny. The Dodgers became a new team with him in there. Philly just has to take him out of there.
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| 35 | Razor
ID: 545172413
Wed, Oct 08, 2008, 11:09
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You mean besides Furcal, Loney, Kemp, Ethier and Martin? Nobody.
Manny had 3 RBI last series. Take those out and LA still had 17 runs in the 3-game series against the Cubs, a team that had the best trio of starting pitchers in the Majors heading into the playoffs.
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| 36 | Khahan
ID: 1065339
Wed, Oct 08, 2008, 14:30
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Furcal has been out almost all season. And while Loney, Kemp, Either and Martin are certainly good they are not scary. I imagine pitchers look at that line up and go, "Ok this is tough, but we can certainly get thru it."
As opposed to looking at say, Jimmy Rollins Chase Utley, Ryan Howard, Pat Burrell and (after the season he put up) Jayson Werth. I'd have to imagine most pitchers look at that and just go "Oh s--t." There is quite a difference.
As for Matt Kemp, his % stats all decreased after Manny arrived in town.
James Loney: His BA went up 12 points after Manny arrived but every other % stat dropped.
Andre Ethier: He's the only player out of that group that saw a positive effect in stats once Manny arrived.
You're right. I'm not so sure pitching around Manny is the way to go. Everybody else seemed to do less with him there.
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| 37 | Khahan
ID: 1065339
Wed, Oct 08, 2008, 14:31
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Sorry, work interrupted me. And Russell Martin: His stats went up as well after Manny arrived.
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| 38 | Razor
ID: 545172413
Wed, Oct 08, 2008, 14:42
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Unlike Philly, we don't give away any outs in our lineup. We'll be fine. The Cubs had the best lineup in the NL and got badly outhit by LA's lineup. Unlike the Cubs, the Phillies do not have starting pitching comparable to the Dodgers. LA should be favored in the series.
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| 39 | judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Wed, Oct 08, 2008, 22:03
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I say, first pitch at 8 pm sharp, so those of us on the East Coast are not exhausted for the next 2-3
weeks! You folks on the West Coast can turn off the radio in the car and watch the whole thing on TIVO
when you get home from work. With 3 minutes of ads to FF through each half inning change, you should
be up to speed by dinner time (2/3 inning)! Besides, TIVO is the best way to watch a BB game anyway!
GO PHILLIES!!
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| 40 | steve houpt
ID: 451161019
Thu, Oct 09, 2008, 00:00
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I think the Dodgers pitching numbers may be somewhat inflated by the NL West division. But their 1-3 starters have VERY done well against the Phillies, but …….
LAD
vs. ARZ - 3.68 ERA [159.0 / 65 - IP/ER]
vs. SDG - 3.42 ERA [158.0 / 60]
vs. SFO - 2.93 ERA [162.2 / 53]
vs. COL - 4.16 ERA [164.1 / 76]
NL West - 3.55 ERA [644.0 / 254]
Other Games - 3.78 ERA [803.1 / 337]
LAD 1-3 starters [average of each pitchers starts, then summed - Billingsley, Lowe, Kuroda]
Per start [sum of 3]
18.26 IP
17.26 Hits
6.84 ER
1.27 HR’s
5.15 BB
14.22 KO
3.37 ERA
PHI 1-3 starters [average of each pitchers starts, then summed - Hamels, Meyers, Moyer]
Per start [sum of 3]
19.17 IP
18.45 Hits
8.02 ER
2.42 HR’s
5.65 BB
15.10 KO
3.76 ERA
LAD vs. PHI [Billingsley, Lowe, Kuroda] - very good
4 GS [2-1 W/L] 25.1 IP, 8 ER, 2.84 ERA, 0 HR’s
The rest of the Dodger pitchers vs. PHI [4 starts, 2 - Kershaw, 1 - Maddux, 1- Penny and relief pitchers].
4 GS, 22 Relief Appearances [2-3 W/L] 45.1 IP, 35 ER, 6.95 ERA [and 9 HR’s]
If the Dodgers don’t need any other starters or any relief pitching, they should do very well.
PHI vs. LAD [Hamels, Meyers] - very good [Moyers made no starts against LAD]
4 GS [2-1 W/L] 28.0 IP, 7 ER, 2.25 ERA, 2 HR’s
The rest of the Philly pitchers vs. LAD [4 starts, 2 - Blanton, 2 - Kendrick and relief pitchers].
4 GS, 22 Relief Appearances [2-3 W/L] 42.2 IP, 20 ER, 4.22 ERA [and 5 HR’s]
Numbers look fairly ‘balanced’. Should be a good series. But, short if Utley and Howard don't hit.
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| 41 | biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Thu, Oct 09, 2008, 10:38
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Nice numbers, Steve.
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| 42 | steve houpt
ID: 451161019
Thu, Oct 09, 2008, 23:52
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Another note - The Dodgers finished 19-8. Those 27 games were against:
5-0 vs ARZ - finished at 82-80, 4.4 RS/G
2-1 vs COL - finished at 74-88, 4.6 RS/G
2-4 vs SFO - finished at 72-90, 4.0 RS/G
3-1 vs PIT - finished at 67-95, 4.5 RS/G
7-2 vs SDG - finished at 63-99, 3.9 RS/G
They should have a hot trio of pitchers heading into the playoffs.
Are the Dodgers good enough to beat the Phillies in seven games? SURE. If the Phillies let them [and history says Phillies are pretty good at finding ways to lose]. The Dodgers swept the Cubs and they scored 56 more runs than the Phillies who scored 799 [tied with Mets for second in NL].
Phillies have given up only 11 runs in 5 games [1,2,4,2,2], Dodgers only 9 runs in 4 games [2,3,1,3].
Dodgers only hitting .243 in playoffs, but have scored 22 runs in 4 games. Phillies only hitting .247 and have only scored 18 runs in 5 games.
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| 43 | Seattle Zen
ID: 358591721
Sun, Oct 12, 2008, 00:14
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This TB/Boston series has been excellent. I'm hoping TB can pull this one out tonight so it can go back to Boston 1-1. Let's have a game 7 and set the chips fall where they may.
I am saddened to think of those young TB fans who can't stay up to watch these games go into the next day. No problem over here on the West Coast.
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| 44 | allhair allstars
Sustainer
ID: 50902421
Sun, Oct 12, 2008, 01:08
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re:41
That's why they call him The Source! :)
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| 45 | PuNk42AE
Donor
ID: 036635522
Sun, Oct 12, 2008, 01:09
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GO RAYS!
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| 46 | judy
ID: 487162821
Sun, Oct 12, 2008, 17:13
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I agree with #43 -- the game ended at 1:33 am. here in Philly. I had it on Tivo as I kept falling
asleep and I missed a lot, but I did see the end. I figured if I really crashed I could use the Tivo to
see the end. Out newspapers here are already on the trucks by 1:33.
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| 47 | JeffG
Leader
ID: 01584348
Mon, Oct 13, 2008, 08:30
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After all the LDS series went 2-0 and none of the teams that fell behind were able to get back in it, it looks like we'll have a couple of LCS that should go to 6 or 7 games. The more baseball the better.
It is just too bad some of the flow of these series is going to get taken away with the extra day off between games 4 and 5, then the travel day after game 5.
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| 48 | Oopsy Daisy
ID: 30311814
Mon, Oct 13, 2008, 10:18
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I think the record of teams down 2-1 is pretty dismal and I bet it's even worse when they were previously down 2-0. I like Philly's chances. But I'm not counting my chickens (hens?) just yet.
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| 49 | steve houpt
ID: 451161019
Mon, Oct 13, 2008, 13:48
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Is the day off between games 4 and 5 in both LCS's strictly a TV / money deal in FOX and TBS contract? Four days [TUE thru FRI] of only one possible [guaranteed now] prime time game?
And I hate the potential delay between LDS, LCS & WS.
Even if both LCS's go only five games [NL ending WED 15 OCT, AL ending THU 16 OCT], the World Series would not start until WED 22 OCT. More 'guaranteed' TV time and schedule I guess.
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| 50 | Seattle Zen
ID: 358591721
Mon, Oct 13, 2008, 17:31
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BAM!
Wow, Fenway is quiet.
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| 51 | Seattle Zen
ID: 358591721
Mon, Oct 13, 2008, 22:42
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It's high time you Red Sox fans start giving Matsuzaka his due. The Rays offense is smokin' hot, as the last two games have shown, yet you hardly hear anything about the fact that Daisuke was no hitting them into the seventh. It's all, "Lester this, Lester that."
Daisuke's season is just as good as Beckett's was last year. He does walk a few more batters than you would like, but he just doesn't get hit. His .211 BA against and his .644 OPS against are pretty damn amazing.
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| 52 | steve houpt
ID: 451161019
Tue, Oct 14x, 2008, 02:50
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Well, the Dodgers starters have looked better than Phillies starters.
In games 1, 3 & 4 the Dodgers got good starts [16.1 IP, 6 ER, a 3.30 ERA]. Problem is the starters are 1-1 in those games and team is 1-2.
Dodger relief pitchers in games 1, 2 & 3 pitched 11.1 innings of shutout ball. But, no wins, no holds, no saves.
In the last three games, Phillies starters pitched only 11.1 IP and gave up 14 ER, a 11.12 ERA. But those starters are 1-1 and Phillies are 2-1 in those games.
DIFF: Phillies relief pitchers have made 16 appearances, 16.2 IP, 2 ER, a 1.08 ERA, 1 win, 5 holds, 3 saves.
If it was not for Billingsley's bad start in game 2 [they only needeed 5 innings and 4 runs from him] and Dodgers long ball relief in game 4, Dodgers would be up 3 games to 1. Baseball isa strange game.
And the Dodgers could still pull it out. If LA can win the next one against Hamels, Phillies are in trouble if their next two starters don't do any better.
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| 53 | Seattle Zen
ID: 49112418
Tue, Oct 14x, 2008, 15:04
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"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
That's some serious selective use of statistics, Steve.
I doubt the Dodgers beat Hamels, but even if they do, they won't rattle off three in a row. Their fans should be ecstatic, they landed Manny, perhaps the most dangerous bat ever swung in a Dodgers uni, for pennies and won their first playoff series since Reagan was president. That's a great year.
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| 54 | steve houpt
ID: 451161019
Tue, Oct 14x, 2008, 19:11
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SZ - I keep waiting for the Phillies to lose. It's in their nature. The've tried, but Dodgers give it back to them. Can't figure it out.
Down 2-0 to Lowe who looked great and Utley and Burrell homer? Burrell hit .191 in AUG-SEP, only .215 after the ASB with only ten HR's. Utley only had 3 HR's after AUG 12th [46 games].
Game two, Meyers gets 3 hits, knocks in 3 runs, Phillies score 8 runs in 3 innings and only lead by three after top of 4th and that's the final score?
Then last night, after they tied it up 3-3 in the top of 6th, they gave it right back. Last thing I expected was HR's from Victorino off of Wade and Stairs off of Broxton. I missed Victorino's, heard it and it was in stands by the time I made it back to the TV. Had gone to the kitchen for a drink. And when Martin struck out on a wild pitch and made it to first, putting runners on 1st and 3rd in the 8th, I thought .............
I'll believe it swhen I see it.
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| 55 | Seattle Zen
ID: 358591721
Tue, Oct 14x, 2008, 23:26
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Ahhh, a Phillie fan who has seen it all, just kvetching a little, knowing all too well what can go wrong. That makes more sense.
The Rays are SLUGGING, good GOD y'all! If they finish off the Sox, that will leave, what, just three teams that have never won a pennant, the Expos/Nationals, Rangers and the Mariners.
The Rays have had a pretty similar life story as the Mariners. Both teams played in lousy dome stadiums in front of small crowds because the teams themselves were lousy. It's just that the Rays were worse: more losses, fewer fans. Both teams suddenly started winning right before they were to move into a new outdoor stadium. Seattle went from a poor baseball outpost to one of the best markets in the country and continue to draw fans even as the team stinks. Will Tampa become baseball crazy? Will they attract 2.5 million next year?
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| 56 | JeffG
Leader
ID: 01584348
Wed, Oct 15, 2008, 09:45
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Is the day off between games 4 and 5 in both LCS's strictly a TV / money deal in FOX and TBS contract? Four days [TUE thru FRI] of only one possible [guaranteed now] prime time game?
If I am recalling this right, with the new post season TV deal that started last season, FOX wanted the World Series to avoid multiple Saturday games but still also avoid Friday games, where viewership is traditionally light. The agreement is that the WS would start on Wednesday instead of Saturday as it had for at least the 10 years prior. Since last year's regular season schedule was already set, the post season schedule was altered to the configuration it is now to push the WS start date back 4 days. The league had always wanted a day off for travel between division series games 4 and 5, and added an extra days before the division series started to allow for the occasional tiebreaker and if need be make ups. Why they chose the extra day between games 4 and 5 of the league series is anyone's guess, perhaps it keeps more games on schedule and still allow travel days off if there is a rain out.
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| 57 | Oopsy Daisy
ID: 30311814
Wed, Oct 15, 2008, 10:28
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As a Phillie phan, you already know the stories by heart. 1964, 1993, the lousy LCS losses in the 70s, the wasted 1986, the shortcomings in the middle of this decade, the 10,000 losses, the longest losing-season streak, the Ryne Sandberg deal, the Von Hayes (or Julio Franco) deal, the Curt Schilling deal, the Scott Rolen deal, the Gavin Floyd deal, the Bobby Abreu deal, and a thousand deals that didn't happen. As a phan, you expect something to happen that will make you lose. It happened with Joe Carter. Why won't it happen with Matt Kemp?
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| 58 | Philsphan
ID: 309828
Wed, Oct 15, 2008, 11:20
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There's more to their story than those bad deals and all those losses. I happen to think that trading Abreu was the classic "addition by subtraction" deal that changed the culture in that clubhouse.
There were also the 2 world series' they never should have been in ('83 and '93). I remeber they were huge underdogs in the NLCS those years. Remember LA winning 11 out of 12 in the regular season before the Phillies creamed them in the NLCS on the backs of Sarge? And who really thought they would beat the Braves in '93 with Maddux, Smoltz and Glavine?
This team seems different from past division winners. They seem very good at forgetting what happened the day before and they play with an intensity I haven't seen in years, even from those great teams in the 70's and 80's.
And we can lay down all the stats that show how good the Dodger pitchers really are in this series, but in the end, the Phils have scored more runs than LA 3 out of 4 times.
Granted, they still have to win one more game here, but frankly I am heppy to see them closing the deal on some of these games that previous Philly teams may not have been able to do.
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| 59 | blue hen
ID: 86502521
Thu, Oct 16, 2008, 00:33
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Woohoo! World Series, here we come!
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| 60 | Species
ID: 309461523
Thu, Oct 16, 2008, 00:58
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Congrats, blue hen! Well deserved pennant by your Phillies.
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| 61 | Razor
ID: 545172413
Thu, Oct 16, 2008, 08:30
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Phillies played a very good series and deserved to win. They have a very strong lineup and bullpen and a true ace. Dodgers could not come up with the big play in Games 1 & 4 to make it a series. The Phils will be a formidable opponent for the AL champ.
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| 62 | blue hen
ID: 30311814
Thu, Oct 16, 2008, 11:32
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I actually like this Phillies team. There were a lot of years where I just didn't enjoy following the team. Too much Andy Ashby and Omar Daal thrown out there. As much as I ride him, even Joe Blanton is more interesting than those guys. And the troika of Howard, Utley, and Burrell is pretty fun to watch, not to mention the other pieces (excluding third base). And Lidge is, of course, my favorite player.
The Dodgers are a tough team to face. I'm a little surprised Billingsley was as bad as he was. Lowe is a sufficient ace and the two of them could easily lead a world champion. And after Manny, they still have a lot of interesting hitters, especially Loney, Martin, and Kemp. The Dodgers are spenders, and I think they can really put a good team out there as long as they don't give too many ABs to Andruw or Pierre.
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| 63 | Razor
ID: 545172413
Thu, Oct 16, 2008, 11:41
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The real problem with this Dodger team, aside from being a little unluck with the hits, was the injuries. This team would have looked a lot better with Penny and Saito. A lack of arms in the pen, combined with Torre's bullpen mismanagement in Game 3, lost us Game 4, which ultimately ended the series. Sliding everyone in the pen down one slot and having another front line starter could have given the Dodgers enough arms to win the series.
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| 64 | Oopsy Daisy
ID: 299161612
Thu, Oct 16, 2008, 13:17
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I'd have given McDonald a start, personally. I don't think they could have touched him. And we didn't see enough Kershaw either.
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| 65 | Razor
ID: 545172413
Thu, Oct 16, 2008, 13:41
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Billingsley and Lowe are two of the best ten pitchers in the NL. LA lost all four games they started. It happens. Only one of them was actually mismanaged (Game 4).
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| 66 | Great One
ID: 497221412
Thu, Oct 16, 2008, 14:00
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OD - you better remind Razor that Lowe and Billingsley aren't as good as Matt Cain!
Are they really Top 10 NL though?
off the top of my head...
Lincecum
Johan
Peavy
Hamels
Sheets
Sabathia
Webb
Haren
So yeah, I guess they are in the next group of 5-7 guys. Billingsley especially working his way into the above group.
Oswalt
Zambrano
Volquez
Dempster
Harden
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| 67 | Oopsy Daisy
ID: 299161612
Thu, Oct 16, 2008, 15:12
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I think you have to put Oswalt ahead of Sheets and probably Zambrano too. And I think I'd put Lowe ahead of Volquez or Dempster, personally. At the very least, both Billingsley and Lowe are "in the discussion."
Would you rather have Dempster or Cain?
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| 68 | Khahan
ID: 486552412
Thu, Oct 16, 2008, 21:17
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So much for the this season. Go Red Sox 2009!
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| 69 | JeffG
ID: 47112621
Thu, Oct 16, 2008, 21:28
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We've been waiting all season for the Rays to fall back to earth and it never happened. They're definitely the real deal. However, I still have flashbacks to 2004. Don't give up til the last out.
But if it is Rays/Phillies it seems like a good match up. Two teams anchored with young stars whose best days likely are still ahead of them.
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| 70 | Great One
ID: 56911412
Fri, Oct 17, 2008, 00:42
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What time were you typing the above posts?! lol... nice game Sox. I'd rather have Cain, just cause he's younger.
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| 71 | Razor
ID: 418502723
Fri, Oct 17, 2008, 01:14
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Younger than Billingsley? Hamels? That's a negative. They are all 24.
Red Sox are incredible. Coming back from 7 down in the 7th inning is amazing. I wonder if the Rays will be able to recover.
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| 72 | Great One
ID: 389281515
Fri, Oct 17, 2008, 08:56
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Younger than Dempster, per question 2 posts above before everyone turned off their TV's at 7-0 in the 7th... :)
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| 73 | Khahan
ID: 1065339
Fri, Oct 17, 2008, 09:41
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Post 68: Umm, Go Red Sox Game 6! wooohoooooooooooo!
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| 74 | Khahan
ID: 486552412
Fri, Oct 17, 2008, 18:11
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I tentatively will be going to game 3 of the world series. If anybody else has plans on being there, drop me a line.
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| 75 | JeffG
ID: 47112621
Sun, Oct 19, 2008, 07:31
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I've got WS game 4 tix.
Well, they've come back again, it's been a good series and we have a game 7. Enjoy it Red Sox fans, you'll be pleased to know that Yankee fans like me are getting phsyically ill.
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| 76 | Seattle Zen
ID: 358591721
Mon, Oct 20, 2008, 00:02
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The real problem with this Dodger team, aside from being a little unlucky with the hits, was the injuries.
No, the Dodgers' problem was that they are the Dodgers and they were facing the Phillies. You could play that series until Hanukkah and the Phils would be up 40-10.
Congrats Tampa Bay! What a great series, I'm very happy that their game 5 meltdown didn't sink them, that would have been real tough for the city and franchise.
A Tampa Bay/Philadelphia World Series, this reminds me of 2005 with the White Sox or the Astros, both LONG time losers.
Next up, Texas versus the Cubs? Seattle vs. The Nationals?
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| 77 | Khahan
ID: 1065339
Mon, Oct 20, 2008, 09:14
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Got a question about the ball/strike calling last night. Unfortunately I only got to check in on the game thru out. Most of the time I ended up seeing the Red Sox bat. Garza and Price both got a number of *very* obvious balls called strikes (2 stick out in my mind: David Ortiz right after Pedrioa got plunked and Kotsay for the 2nd out of the 9th inning. And its not my imagination. I saw the pitch, heard the call, got indignant ;) then the TV showed the pitch tracker and both were clearly 3-4 inches off the plate).
So my question is: Did Lester or any other Boston pitchers get the same call? Wish I could have paid more attention. The times I did see TB at the plate, I didn't see any pitches thrown near these spots.
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| 78 | Great One
ID: 389281515
Mon, Oct 20, 2008, 09:17
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Lester was given plenty of the plate to work with, and all his backdoor stuff was being called strikes as they hoped. It was a fairly good sized strike zone both ways.
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| 79 | Khahan
ID: 1065339
Mon, Oct 20, 2008, 09:34
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It sounds like it was consistent. Both teams playing on th same level=fair. :)
Congratulations to the Rays. What a great season they've had.
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| 80 | Omowunmy
ID: 4873210
Wed, Aug 01, 2012, 01:32
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Man, all these injuries just add fuerthr insult to erm injuries. Howard could be out for a long time, and who knows what kind of player he'd be upon returning either. And now we find out that both Hamels and Pence have been injured for some time which may help to explain some of the recent struggles for either or both of them. Oh and EVEN WORSE, apparently the Phillies didn't purchase insurance for Howard's contract, so we can't even use his 2012 salary to pay a fill-in while he's out. This is really shaping up to NOT be a fun off-season
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