| 0 |
Subject: World Series action
Posted by: blue hen
- [299161612] Wed, Oct 22, 2008, 10:10
It's Hamels vs. Kazmir tonight. Anybody have thoughts? |
| Only the 50 most recent replies are currently shown. Click on this text to display hidden posts as well. |
| 21 | blue hen
ID: 299161612
Mon, Oct 27, 2008, 10:32
|
This series will be an important point in the "clutch hitting" argument. The reality is that if you get that many people on base, you'll score them eventually. Even last night they left 8 on in the first 3 innings.
|
| 22 | blue hen
ID: 299161612
Mon, Oct 27, 2008, 14:39
|
I just want to say that this is such a good feeling. My team is currently "in" the World Series. By tomorrow, those words could be in the past tense, and while I will definitely be happy, I can't imagine that it can compare to this. Right now, the most important games in the sport involve my team. And every newspaper and TV program is breaking down Feliz, Lidge, and Blanton, the way I have done in my mind (and occasionally on paper) for so long. Jamie Moyer called it the greatest moment in his career, and that's a long career. Every team fights and fights and spends and spends for the dream of playing in a World Series, and right now, the series is happening. Every night, there's a new important Phillies game, a new storyline that might not grip the entire nation, but it's certainly a topic in the news. There are some words that just sound right, like 1986 Mets, 1984 Tigers, 1991 Twins, 2003 Marlins, 1927 Yankees, 1976 Reds, and even 1980 Phillies, and I am so happy that we're looking to add 2008 Phillies to the mix. And with players that are so likable - Howard, Utley, Victorino, Lidge, Ruiz. I've had many great moments as a baseball fan, including watching a World Series game in the gallery of the Hall of Fame, attending three All-Star Games, and the first time I opened the 1989 Official MLB Preview, but I can't imagine many of those can compare to what I felt last night, sitting on my couch watching my team get that much closer to a championship.
If you're a fan of the Patriots, Bulls, Yankees, Lakers, Celtics, or even Marlins, I hope you took time to appreciate the moment while it was happening. That's what I've tried to do for the last 15 minutes, so thanks for listening. I hope I didn't jinx it.
[/wax]
|
| 23 | steve houpt
ID: 451161019
Mon, Oct 27, 2008, 14:40
|
good point blue hen - using a few different standards to determine "Runs Created" based on Phillies / Tampa hitting for the series, the Phillies should have outscored Tampa 25-27 to 8-9.
As it is they have outscored them 20 to 12.
Phillies OPS = .879
Tampa OPS = .531
Amazingly, for the entire post season, opponents OPS against the Phillies is .618
Opponent stats for 13 games [subject to my spreadsheet errors]
41 RUNS
.222 Bating Avg [92-414]
.302 OB Pct
.316 Slugging Pct [131 TB's, 8 HR's]
.618 OPS
Runs created is close [38-39]
Phillies stats for 13 games [subject to my spreadsheet errors]
60 RUNS
.260 Bating Avg [113-434]
.344 OB Pct
.459 Slugging Pct [199 TB's, 19 HR's]
.802 OPS
But along the same line [clutch hitting], those stats shoukld have produced 66-67 runs.
|
| 24 | judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Oct 27, 2008, 23:59
|
I was SO ready to celebrate. (I still have my score sheets from 1980...)
I suspect it will be Price for TB for as long as he is effective. For Philly, depends on R/L lineup for the 7th, but
Madson 8th and Lidge 9th. We do need some hits though...
Is this the first suspended WS game? I am glad they called it early enough so everyone can get home and
rested. BUT, weather tomorrow is not much better -- more rain all day (Nor'easter), windy (gusts 40-50 mph)
and 30's (WC 20's) at game time (8 pm).
|
| 25 | philflyboy
ID: 20932156
Tue, Oct 28, 2008, 10:05
|
I think the fair thing to do last night would have been to call the game at the top of the 6th or play until the 7th and then call the game. It was an unfair advantage to not give the Phillies a chance to score again in the 6th with the wet field.
|
| 26 | Seattle Zen
ID: 358591721
Tue, Oct 28, 2008, 10:52
|
Not even the Phillies themselves would want to win the World Series leading by a run with three or four innings left to play due to rain. I can imagine the frustrations of the fans who were in attendance last night. Of course you want to see your team clinch and you might not be able to come back the next night, but seriously, who would want to the umpires to say, "it's over" when you are up by a measly run?
|
| 27 | blue hen
ID: 299161612
Tue, Oct 28, 2008, 10:58
|
So if Philly scored, then what? Then we're in the crappy situation where they can't suspend it.
This is definitely the first suspended game. The idea of suspended games started last year.
The Rays are in pretty good shape at this point (at least for Game 5).
|
| 28 | Razor
ID: 529382710
Tue, Oct 28, 2008, 11:14
|
The Rays are in a good spot. All they have to do is win a 3 inning game and they can return to St. Pete. That's not a bad position at all for a team that looked like its goose was cooked after Game 4.
|
| 29 | blue hen
ID: 299161612
Tue, Oct 28, 2008, 11:21
|
The Phils get 4 half-innings while the Rays only get 3. By definition, that makes the Phils favorites (in addition to the standard home field advantage). But you're right - this certainly isn't where we imagined the Rays would be in the first inning last night.
|
| 30 | JeffG
Leader
ID: 01584348
Tue, Oct 28, 2008, 11:48
|
Tough for the fans to have to endure the horrible weather for most of the game, just to end up having to come back for the conclusion (and again pay for parking, etc). In 20/20 hindsight, it was probably not a good idea to have started it at all yesterday.
The comments in post [28] & [29] would have been no different than if the weather was fine and the game was 2-2 and played through. Tampa did it's job of staying even with Hamels and getting the game to the pens. Hamels is leading off the bottom of the 6th, I guess he probably would have batted and come out to pitch the seventh in normal weather conditions. Tough break, like in any other rain delay situation. Then again, if they don't play again to Thanksgiving as Selig quipped, Hamels will be well rested to go out and pitch into the 13th.
|
| 31 | blue hen
ID: 299161612
Tue, Oct 28, 2008, 11:58
|
I had a friend from New York who went down for the game, but had to come back for work today (rather than miss a second day). He's a huge Phillies fan and that kind of sucks for him.
|
| 32 | Razor
ID: 529382710
Tue, Oct 28, 2008, 12:32
|
The Rays are in a good spot. All they have to do is win a 3 inning game and they can return to St. Pete. That's not a bad position at all for a team that looked like its goose was cooked after Game 4.
|
| 33 | KrazyKoalaBears
ID: 45657107
Tue, Oct 28, 2008, 13:11
|
All they have to do is win a 3 inning game and they can return to St. Pete.
That's actually a very interesting way of looking at things. When I read that sentence, I couldn't help but think about other instances where something that seemed so simple turned out to be so difficult.
For instance...
2004 ALCS: NYY v. BOS
"All the Yankees have to do is get three outs without allowing a run and they can go to the World Series."
August 5, 2001: SEA v. CLE
"All the Mariners have to do is get one out without allowing 5 runs and they can win the game."
I'm sure there are TONS of other examples, but it doesn't make the original statement seem any less likely. And I agree that TAM has put itself in a much better position than anyone would have thought they'd be in.
|
| 34 | Razor
ID: 529382710
Tue, Oct 28, 2008, 13:28
|
Now here's the real key - are Games 6 and 7 delayed a day due to the rainout? If they are not, Tampa Bay will have survived a Cole Hamels start and it would be impossible for him to pitch again.
Philly is definitely capable of winning in Tampa, but the momentum definitely shifts to Tampa Bay if the series goes back there. Phillies seemed to be on the verge of clinching and having not closed it out at home with their ace on the mound could leave them wondering, "What if?"
|
| 35 | blue hen
ID: 299161612
Tue, Oct 28, 2008, 14:25
|
Rays have been forced to find a hotel in Delaware. The horrors! I mean seriously - Delaware?
In all seriousness, it's a REALLY nice hotel. And the commute is about the same as from Midtown Manhattan to Shea Stadium.
|
| 36 | Seattle Zen
ID: 358591721
Tue, Oct 28, 2008, 15:10
|
Delaware! That's a "cruel and unusual punishment" if there ever was one.
|
| 37 | J
Leader
ID: 049346417
Tue, Oct 28, 2008, 16:08
|
I say just finish the series in Tampa :)
|
| 38 | Seward Norse
ID: 297412913
Tue, Oct 28, 2008, 16:19
|
Start game 5 at 8:00 AM tomorrow, and make them fly to TB to play game 6(if TB wins) at 7:30 that night. That can't be any worse than being in Delaware! :)
|
| 39 | Skidazl
Leader
ID: 379312323
Wed, Oct 29, 2008, 09:46
|
Game 7 would be on Friday now(assuming no "travel day"), so Hamels could go on Friday with 3 days rest...
GO PHILLIES!!!
|
| 40 | PuNk42AE
Donor
ID: 036635522
Wed, Oct 29, 2008, 10:48
|
Oh what's with all of the Delaware Hate! We're allowing them to spend their money Tax Free!
|
| 41 | blue hen
ID: 299161612
Wed, Oct 29, 2008, 12:40
|
Vegas odds on Phillies fans bringing long-range super soakers into the stadium and pelting Tampa fielders on popups?
8 to 1.
|
| 42 | Donkey Hunter
Leader
ID: 916288962
Wed, Oct 29, 2008, 17:06
|
Ok I seriously need a translator for Charlie Manuel more than I need one for Ozzie Guillen. Where in the world is this guy from?
|
| 43 | Razor
ID: 529382710
Wed, Oct 29, 2008, 17:39
|
Buffoonsville, Maryland.
If they win it, I think Manuel might be the most incompetent manager in a while to win a title. Manuel just seems like he is along for the ride, win or lose.
|
| 44 | catfish
ID: 599582919
Wed, Oct 29, 2008, 22:00
|
Nice, blue hen.
|
| 45 | Seattle Zen
ID: 358591721
Wed, Oct 29, 2008, 22:07
|
Congrats all y'all Phillie fans!
|
| 46 | Building 7
ID: 174591519
Wed, Oct 29, 2008, 22:35
|
Congrats blue hen, judy, anybody else. Enjoy it. Once again the loser of the all-star game gets home field advantage in the W.S. and the winner of the all-star game has never ended up with home field advantage.
|
| 47 | JTSERB
Donor
ID: 481020120
Wed, Oct 29, 2008, 23:36
|
um, the White Sox won the world series in 05. They had home field advantage.
|
| 48 | judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Wed, Oct 29, 2008, 23:43
|
YAHOOOOOOOO
PHILLIES!!!!
|
| 49 | Building 7
ID: 174591519
Wed, Oct 29, 2008, 23:44
|
Um, there were two games in Chicago and two games in Houston. No home field advantage for either league that year.
|
| 50 | blue hen
ID: 299161612
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 10:15
|
That's not really how it works. The Rays had home-field advantage this year.
|
| 51 | Donkey Hunter
Leader
ID: 916288962
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 10:34
|
And yet more games were played in philly than in Tampa. weird
|
| 52 | Razor
ID: 529382710
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 10:51
|
Just because they lost home field advantage does not mean they never had it.
|
| 53 | Donkey Hunter
Leader
ID: 916288962
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 10:55
|
I believe that B7 has ben making the case for a few years now that the series should go 2-2-1-1-1 instead of 2-3-2 so that the team with home field is guaranteed to never be able to lose homefield.
|
| 54 | blue hen
ID: 299161612
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 10:58
|
Who's going to pay for that? The fans?
|
| 55 | Donkey Hunter
Leader
ID: 916288962
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 11:11
|
Pay for what? The teams to fly back and forth an extra 2 times?
|
| 56 | Kyle
Donor
ID: 052753312
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 11:34
|
I believe that B7 has ben making the case for a few years now that the series should go 2-2-1-1-1 instead of 2-3-2 so that the team with home field is guaranteed to never be able to lose homefield.
Pay for what? The teams to fly back and forth an extra 2 times?
This will only extend the baseball playoffs. I have to admit I lost interest after the White Sox were eliminated, but that was mainly because the NFL was starting to get into full swing and my fantasy basketball draft was looming. If they start playing in late March then I will concede that 2-2-1-1-1 will be a good idea, but I don't want to see November baseball (which is all but guaranteed next year). I don't mind an early-February Super Bowl, or the NBA playoffs to last 3 months, but baseball is a summer sport and when it's snowing outside Philly during the World Series, that's a problem. Plan to end the World Series before October 20th every year. Period.
|
| 57 | Donkey Hunter
Leader
ID: 916288962
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 11:43
|
Actually I think November is guaranteed next year. I think game 7 is scheduled for the 7th but I may be wrong.
If it were changed to 2-2-1-1-1 you would not have to give a day off for travel between every location change. I am sure both teams have played back to back days in different cities 25 times during the season.
In fact what if that plan coincided with (wait for it, this is a drastic idea) an afternoon World Series game followed by a night game the next night in the new city.
|
| 58 | Donkey Hunter
Leader
ID: 916288962
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 11:44
|
ok from SI.com
"Next year, the Series doesn't start until Oct. 28 and Game 7 would be Nov. 5."
|
| 60 | judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 12:02
|
Re #58 And this is out Summer Pasttime??? They are crazy.
As are the thoughts of having the series (a week's worth of games) at a neutral weather friendly
site. Baseball is 162 games for fans and they deserve to be able to cheer for their home team.
Going to a night game (far too late a start anyway IMO) is far different than getting a whole week
off from work -- with travel, hotels etc expenses. Only the super rich who have no passion for
the team could go. Stupid idea.
|
| 61 | Building 7
ID: 471052128
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 12:05
|
Just because they lost home field advantage does not mean they never had it.
But they never had it. No one knows how many games it will go, and they only have it if it goes 7 games. If it goes 5 games like it did, then the loser of the All-star game has home field advantage.
|
| 62 | Perm Dude
ID: 219572916
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 12:20
|
Home field advantage also means that the series opens in your home field. And that occurs no matter how many games the series goes.
|
| 63 | Seward Norse
ID: 297412913
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 12:20
|
I would like to see ALL off days eliminated(except for a day between series). Play Game 2's and Game 5's in the afternoon. This would make teams keep a 5 man rotation(or go on short rest) and would be a better indicator of which TEAM is actually better instead of which team has the best 2-3 starting pitchers.
If we did this for the first two rounds, then they could spread out the WS more and adapt B7's plan if they wanted to and we'd still be done quite a bit earlier.
|
| 64 | Khahan
ID: 1065339
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 12:22
|
Building 7, you are looking at projection vs reality. Sorry but those are 2 very different conceptions. The All-star games gives the winning league homefield advantage in a best of 7 WS. Its projected to be 7 and if it comes down to the do-or-die game 7 for both teams the winner of the Allstar game has it.
Just because the other team ended up doing their job better/more efficiently/quicker does not negate that the Allstar game winner would get homefield in game 7.
Its what can be offered under the current set up or 2-3-2. The only way to gaurantee homefield advantage would be to make the series into a 4-3 format.
At any rate the All star game, since it IS a meaningless exhibition game, should have no bearing whatsoever on the WS. The team with the best record should have homefield advantage.
But then again B7, by your rationale, if the team with the best record loses in 5, they still would not have earned home field advantage, would they?
You need to apply the term BEFORE the series starts, when its stll a best of 7 and there could potentially be 7 games. The right to that is meaningless after the fact when it turns out it was only 5 games or 6 games. But we can't know that before hand.
|
| 65 | barilko6
ID: 58133021
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 12:40
|
I wonder what teams would decide if they had the choice to pick whether they would want to be the 2 games on either end or the 3 games in the middle of a 2-3-2 set up.
|
| 66 | steve houpt
ID: 451161019
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 22:20
|
I'd pick starting at HOME.
Last 15 WS, team playing first game at home has won 11 times.
When it went 7 games [only real home field edge], home team is 3-0 in game seven. They are also 9-3 at home, 3-6 on the road.
When it went 6 games, team starting at home is 3-1 [and game 6 is also at home].
Over all in those 15 series [93 & 95-08], team starting at home is 28-12 at home, 20-20 on road, 48-32 over all and 11-4 in series.
BUT, the winning teams in those 15 years is 60-20 and was 36-9 at home and 'only' 24-11 on the road. So, home is good, but home is really good if you are the 'better' team that series.
Three series' went 5 games. Only home field team to win was 2000 Yanks who started 2-0 at home. Both Tigers [06] and Tampa [08] started 1-1 at home and then lost three straight on the road.
Five series' were sweeps, 4 started in winning teams parks.
HOME sweet HOME.
|
| 67 | Building 7
ID: 174591519
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 22:34
|
In the 2008 World Series, there were 3 games played in Philadelphia and 2 in Florida. Tampa Bay had the home field advantage.
Does anybody agree with that statement?
|
| 68 | steve houpt
ID: 451161019
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 22:41
|
I agree - Tampa had home field advantage. Home field advantage is if it goes seven games you get 4 games at home. If you do not lose at home [the first two games], you are guaranteed you cannot lose on the road. Worst you can be is 2-3.
But, for every game you lose at home you have to win one on the road. As soon as you lose one at home, you have 'lost home field advantage' until you win one on the road, if you consider the home team 'favored' to win each game. But all Tampa had to do was go 1-2 in Philly after losing one at home, to come back to Tampa. That's an advantage IMHO.
|
| 69 | Building 7
ID: 174591519
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 23:27
|
But it didn't go 7 games, it went 5 games. I give up.
In the entire history of 7 game world series', game 7 has been roughly split between the home team winning and the visiting team winning.
|
| 70 | Razor
ID: 529382710
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 23:51
|
Philly stole home field advantage by winning in Tampa. Had Tampa won its home games, it would have been impossible for Philly to win at home.
|
| 71 | JeffG
Leader
ID: 01584348
Fri, Oct 31, 2008, 09:13
|
My game 4 photos
|
| Rate this thread: | If you wish, you may rate this thread on scale of 1-5. Ratings should indicate how valuable or interesting you believe this thread would be to other users of this forum. A '5' means that this thread is a 'must read'. A '1' means that this is a complete waste of time. If you have previously rated this thread, rating it again will delete your previous rating. If you do not want to rate this thread, but want to see how others have rated it, then click the button without entering a rating, or else click here. |
|
|
|
Post a reply to this message: (But first, how about checking out this sponsor?)
|