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0 Subject: Arod Steroid User

Posted by: ChicagoTRS
- [570422522] Sat, Feb 07, 2009, 11:08

Sources tell SI Alex Rodriguez tested positive for steroids in 2003

Not really surprising but another of the mighty is about to take a big fall.
1Seattle Zen
      ID: 3617711
      Sat, Feb 07, 2009, 12:10
Fall where? If he gives a simple, "my bad" ala Andy Pettite, it will soon be forgotten, much like it has for Andy.

He's not a bullheaded Texas moron like Clemens.
2Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Sat, Feb 07, 2009, 12:15
I doin't think he'll likely heve to do even that. Those records are sealed, the claims of these sources cannot be confirmed by anyone with any authority and there is no reprimand for failing that test. There's no reason for why ARod would own up to it. It certainly won't be a matter of personal morality for him.
3JeffG
      ID: 7044197
      Sat, Feb 07, 2009, 12:47
SI should either publish from their sources the entire list of all 104 players who tested positive or this is just another sensationalized piece of selective reporting because it is A-Rod.

I'm not being an A-Rod apologist, if true he should quickly give the mea culpa as Pettitte and Giambi did.
4Tree
      ID: 1311551521
      Sat, Feb 07, 2009, 14:44
jesus, how many guys who wore the yankee uniform used?!?!

A-Rod
Giambi
Clemens
Velarde
Pettitte
Canseco
Ivan Rodriquez
darren holmes
gary sheffield
jim leyritz
jason grimsley
david justice
chuck knoblauch
rondell white
hal morris
mike stanton
kevin brown

that's like 17 guys right there. how many more are there?

although i am a firm believer that the guys who did steroids before it was against the rules did nothing wrong, if MLB really wants to make an example, how about stripping World Series victories away from teams that employed these guys.

i'd bet a good deal of those guys played for the Yankees during the 1996-2000 glory years.
5Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Sat, Feb 07, 2009, 15:09
Let me get this straight.

In your opinion franchises should be penalized for employing players who -- by your own standard -- weren't breaking any rules?

And you want that penalty to be enforced retroactively in the form of forfeited World Series victories?

That is the dumbest, most moronic nincompoopery anyone reading this will be exposed to today.
6Perm Dude
      ID: 35143622
      Sat, Feb 07, 2009, 15:31
Assuming that this is true (that ARod took these drugs), then he should be penalized. The steriods were always against the rules (that is, the MLPBA contracts with MLB), even if there were no specific penalties against them.

In addition, personal contracts (between the players and club) dictate all sorts of things that the player can't do, including taking prescription drugs without telling the club.

I have no idea why someone would think that a MLB player taking steroids in 2003 would not be "against the rules."
7Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Sat, Feb 07, 2009, 16:17
Agreed in that it was clearly against the rules. The notion that "he did nothing wrong" if this is true is silly. However, the collective bargaining agreement is very clear on this - there is no penalty for failing the 2003 test. If you recall, that testing was done in order to guage the pervasiveness of PEDs in the game at the time.

The article also says, "Two sources familiar with Rodriguez's contract told SI that there is no language about steroids in the contract that would put Rodriguez at risk of losing money."
8Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Sat, Feb 07, 2009, 16:23
Believe me I'd be just fine with the Yankees voiding that prima donna's contract if these revelations led to that option. But it won't. Nor should it.
9Tree
      ID: 1311551521
      Sat, Feb 07, 2009, 17:11
you're misunderstanding me MITH.

i'm saying that if MLB wants to make a clear statement, penalize teams as well as players. i refuse to believe that management of these teams had no clue their players were juicing.
10Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Sat, Feb 07, 2009, 17:33
Aside from the absurdity of retroacively penalizing a team for an infraction committed by a player that, according to the established rules, didn't warrant a reprimand at the time, and the blanket assumption that in the case of every single infraction, the team is responsible, your ridiculous choice for a penalty is one that can only apply to teams that have won World Series.
12Da Bomb
      Donor
      ID: 487112814
      Sat, Feb 07, 2009, 17:33
"SI's Selena Roberts said that she would name no other players from the list of 104 major leaguers who tested positive for steroids in 2003."

Not to mention the hundreds of others who most likely tested positive in other years. Everyone did it.
13Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Sat, Feb 07, 2009, 17:36
Frankly, I'd like to know how many of the past 25 or so World Series Champions have no players who have admitted, been implicated or tested positive for PEDs.

You do know that the '86 Mets lose their title under your plan, thanks to Lenny Dykstra, right?
14Tree
      ID: 1311551521
      Sat, Feb 07, 2009, 19:06
oh, and im sure not just dykstra. some of those yankees i mentioned also played in Queens.

again, though, you're misreading what i say. i'm just suggesting that if MLB wants to punish these players, punish their teams as well.

personally, i dont think anyone should be punished, and it's akin to a big witch hunt for the most part.

i'm telling MLB to put up, or shut up.
15Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Sat, Feb 07, 2009, 19:45
i'm telling MLB to put up, or shut up

I guess I don't understand what you're talking about. To our knowledge, it wasn't MLB who leaked ARod's name.

Are you saying PEDs should all be legal?
16coldwater coyotes
      ID: 451159910
      Sat, Feb 07, 2009, 23:57
What does this say about the thoroughness of the Mitchell report???
17blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Sun, Feb 08, 2009, 00:49
The sad thing is that even though the Yankees won't void the contract now, let's say ARod gets hurt or suddenly isn't worth the contract for some other reason. THEN, the Yankees will try to void it.
18astade
      ID: 191134222
      Sun, Feb 08, 2009, 00:58
it's a business...who wouldn't do that?

it's SAD? cry me a river when people are getting laid off left and right.

19Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Feb 08, 2009, 00:58
nincompoopery

LOL

Funny stuff.

Wasn't ARod playing for Texas in 03? That's the year he hit all those HRs, right? Sure he may have been juicing in NY too. In fact, whey would he stop until there were penalties?

My guess is that he will need to address this soon or end up like McGwire. I'd say fess up a la Pettitte asap--but I just can't see him doing that.
20astade
      ID: 191134222
      Sun, Feb 08, 2009, 01:03
Ref, I agree with your statement. He has shown that his hubris is so great that I doubt we see an admission. It may be the best thing for him, but I doubt he does it.

Consider the fact that according to ESPN he has known about this for years (see T.J. Quinn). He could have pre-empted this story being broken by being honest.

In fact he was contacted by the authors of this report as late as Thursday and decided he would abstain from comment.

21filthy
      ID: 388531216
      Sun, Feb 08, 2009, 07:38
I'm sure everybody's favorite team could field a solid team of potential ex-cheaters. Jose Canseco played for my Jays, Clemens too. Everyone else is suspect by association. Especially any '98 Jays. Good thing Alomar left before then...

oh wait, he went and played alongside Palmeiro and Brady Anderson. Canseco showed some Cal Ripken animosity in his book... perhaps a rival chemist? Not likely but pretty much anybody who acheived any success in the 90's is a suspect by some form of association.

What's that new game the kids are playing? 3 degrees of Jose Canseco?

In 2003, 104 players tested positive! And they knew the test was coming!! (And they can probably all be linked to Canseco in 3 moves or less!!!)

If they weren't so caught up in their steroid cycles and making money, they could've deflected some future heat by simply taking a break, even with the test being anonymous. But there were still over 100 selfish players that were way too far in to turn back. They now had HUGE contracts to live up to, and bodies like machines that required help to maintain. And the drug testing was still thought of as a joke. So they abused it and now look, a player couldn't honestly improve their skills during the 90's without current day skepticism. Especially if you happened to play for the same team as a Canseco, Bonds, Clemens etc...

And what about the guys that didn't have their names released from 2003? They gotta be sweating a little now. The fact that ARod was one of the names, has to get some powerful people interested in trying to get this list revealed. ARod seems like the type that would give up all the names he knew. It's gotta be all pretty interconnected.

Arod wouldnt be involved though, he probably had to do steroids privately because none of the steroid cliques would accept him. He instead grew to enjoy working out in front of the mirror while rehearsing anti-steroid media soundbites.

Anyways, hard to tell how wide the web spreads and that sucks for the guys that were clean. At least until the rest of this list gets revealed
22Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Feb 08, 2009, 10:34
I had forgotten that ARod went on 60 Minutes right after the Mitchell Report was released and said he had never used PEDs. Said he never felt overmatched on the baseball field.
23Great One
      ID: 151126410
      Mon, Feb 09, 2009, 10:14
If Canseco comes out and says Colin Delaney was on roids, sadly I'd now believe him.

Only Tree will get that :)

24ChicagoTRS
      ID: 4110481415
      Mon, Feb 09, 2009, 10:22
My bet is Arod goes the denial route...and we already know that generally does not go very well. He has already publically denied steroid use even when at the time he knew he had tested positive.

His legacy is already tarnished...and the big fall is in progress.

As for punishing specific teams...sort of impossible...might as well punish the entire league including the front offices and the commissioners office. All of baseball knew this was going on.
25Tree
      ID: 1311551521
      Mon, Feb 09, 2009, 10:28
sigh. if Colin Delaney was on the gas, then man, what is the world coming to???
26Khahan
      ID: 1065339
      Mon, Feb 09, 2009, 11:26
At this point, slap his wrist, make sure he's clean AND MOVE ON. As long as the league is cleaned up and stays clean, MOVE ON ALREADY.

I'm starting to hate the offseason. People have nothing better to do than dig up drama that these overpaid primadonna's can't handle. I just want to see them play baseball. As long as they are clean now, lets get going and play.
27Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Feb 09, 2009, 14:20
ARod just admitted it.
28JeffG
      Leader
      ID: 01584348
      Mon, Feb 09, 2009, 14:40
ARod talks to ESPN

Alex admitted taking PEDs for three years while with Texas.

Even if he has been clean since, it will stick with him forever. I'd love to say he'll be forgiven if he comes clean, but the Yankees and their fans will be now dealing with this 'distraction' until 2017. Lets hear who the other 104 are.

Alex - Say it ain't so!
29Mith
      ID: 2894309
      Mon, Feb 09, 2009, 14:43
Release him.
30GoatLocker
      Leader
      ID: 060151121
      Mon, Feb 09, 2009, 14:46
2001-2003
Yep, probably the best thing he could do.
31Seattle Zen
      ID: 9143913
      Mon, Feb 09, 2009, 14:47
Release him.

Here, here! And move Melky Cabrera to third.

And forget that new stadium, play in Central Park on the softball fields.
32Mith
      ID: 2894309
      Mon, Feb 09, 2009, 14:51
"When I arrived in Texas in 2001, I felt an enormous amount of pressure. I needed to perform, and perform at a high level every day," Rodriguez told ESPN's Peter Gammons in an interview in Miami Beach, Fla. "Back then, [baseball] was a different culture. It was very loose. I was young, I was stupid, I was naïve. I wanted to prove to everyone I was worth being one of the greatest players of all time.

"I did take a banned substance. For that, I'm very sorry and deeply regretful."


Sources who know about the testing results told SI that Rodriguez tested positive for testosterone and Primobolan, an anabolic steroid. In his ESPN interview, Rodriguez said he did not know exactly which substance or substances he had taken. In 2003, there were no penalties for a positive result.

"Overall, I felt a tremendous pressure to play, and play really well" in Texas, the New York Yankees third baseman said. "I had just signed this enormous contract I felt like I needed something, a push, without over-investigating what I was taking, to get me to the next level.

"I am sorry for my Texas years. I apologize to the fans of Texas."

Rodriguez, who joined the Yankees for the 2004 season after a trade from Texas, said "all my years in New York have been clean."


"It's been a rough 15 months here for me," Rodriguez said. "I was stupid for three years. I was very, very stupid. The more honest we can all be, the quicker we can get baseball [back] to where it needs to be."

Rodriguez said he stopped taking substances after injuring himself at spring training in 2003 with the Rangers.

"It wasn't a real dramatic day. I started experimenting with things that, today, are not legal," he said, "that today are not accepted ... ever since that incident happened, I realized that I don't need any of it."

He said the culture earlier this decade of taking performance-enhancing substances was "prevalent." "There were a lot of people doing a lot of different things," Rodriguez said, noting that he wasn't specifically pointing out the Rangers.


"I had never heard anything since," he said. "Whatever I was experimenting with in Texas might have been OK."
33Perm Dude
      ID: 2415292
      Mon, Feb 09, 2009, 14:55
play in Central Park on the softball fields.

No, have them play in a "between the fields" league.
34Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Feb 09, 2009, 15:00
I still don't believe ARod is telling the complete truth.
35Mith
      ID: 2894309
      Mon, Feb 09, 2009, 15:08
Me either. Release him.
36ChicagoTRS
      ID: 4110481415
      Mon, Feb 09, 2009, 15:33
Probably a good move on his part coming out with an admission. Hurts his legacy but not as bad as if he had went the Clemens/Bonds route.
37R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Mon, Feb 09, 2009, 15:53
Over/Under on Sox signing Arod once the Yanks release him?

I don't really believe he's told us everything either. All the HGH that must be going around in MLB (among other untestable things) why would he not be using that?
I could accept being 'stupid' for trying it once. But using for 3 years, its pretty clear he made his choice. And I see no reason to believe he's not still making the same choice.
38ChicagoTRS
      ID: 4110481415
      Mon, Feb 09, 2009, 15:58
I agree they should either blood test now or put legislation in place to hold urine samples for X number of years for retesting...once they have a urine test for HGH. There should be some sort of retroactive punishment or fine or at least expose positive test results.
39KrazyKoalaBears
      ID: 361154158
      Mon, Feb 09, 2009, 16:23
OMFG! There are steroids in baseball?!?!!!!1111 WTF?!?!!!!!1111

[/sarcasm]

This is MLBs fault. They never had any real rules about it and now they're paying for it in terms of "revelations" like this. What other organization essentially says, "If you break this rule, there's no punishment?" If a rule has no punishment, is it really a rule? Ask MLB.

At this point, MLB's legacy is tarnished, including all of the players, whether they used steroids or not. They're just a few more star players away from being as bad as the Tour de France.
40Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Mon, Feb 09, 2009, 16:37
It's much more the PA's fault than MLB. The commissioner's office might not have pushed the issue as hard or as loudly as we'd like, but the PA's did everything in their power at every step along the way to keep PEDs in baseball.
41Electroman
      ID: 47928246
      Mon, Feb 09, 2009, 17:21
Seems to me that when he decided that he was going to come clean with this report, he should have prepared something. Seems like during the part of the interview I saw, he doesn't really look like he knows what to say. Like he winged it. I wonder what kind off season he is going to have this year. I am sure the Yankees are enjoying this, as it will probably overshadow the new stadium opening.
42KrazyKoalaBears
      ID: 186321620
      Mon, Feb 09, 2009, 18:45
MITH, and it was MLB's responsibility to take it to the fans and say, "We refuse to support playing conditions that promote performance enhancing drug use. The Player's Union is willing to strike in order to be allowed to use these drugs that we feel are detrimental to the integrity of our sport and we are unwilling to undermine that integrity just so they can get their way."

I'm pretty sure the public at large would have sided with MLB in that one. But, instead, MLB chose labor peace over the integrity of the game.

What MLB failed to recognize was that the Player's Union didn't have any real power on the issue. Had A-Rod, and other players', positive tests (going way back) been revealed when they happened, MLB would have had all the bargaining power in the world and the Player's Union would have been helpless on the subject... much like they are now.
43Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Mon, Feb 09, 2009, 19:14
KKB

The commissioner's office does not sit at the top of MLB hierarchy, it's a the bottom. And MLB is a massive industry - you cannot expect the franchise owners to behave like it isn't a business. I agree the bottom line is that they were ultimately complacent in the prevelance of PEDs but at least it was an issue which they persued. The Players Association, on the other hand, literally fought against PED testing and penalties. Active obstruction to anti-PED measures is worse than insufficient persuit of them.
44KrazyKoalaBears
      ID: 186321620
      Mon, Feb 09, 2009, 20:19
The commissioner's office does not sit at the top of MLB hierarchy, it's a the bottom. [...] The Players Association, on the other hand, literally fought against PED testing and penalties."

And yet somehow we now have a policy and punishment in place.

The fact is that the PA's "power" was all a big myth (not MITH ;). Everybody talks about how powerful the PA was and yet look at how easily it was toppled on the subject. All it took was a bunch of leaks about all the players using steroids and the fan backlash provided a great stepping stone to a real policy.

So, what took MLB so long? They've had the data for far longer than they've had any punishment, but the problem was that they were profiting so much from the nightly Home Run Derbies that they were happy to let the integrity of the game take a dive in exchange for bigger gate revenue.

I don't expect MLB and the owners to act like it's not a business, but baseball is much MORE than a business. The problem is that MLB and the onwers were treating it solely as a business, just like the players.

So, if we have players and owners and MLB all profiting from the use of steroids, who is more wrong? The players, because they want to keep the millions they feel they deserve? The owners, because they want to keep the millions they feel they deserve? MLB, because they want to keep the millions they deserve?

No. The one to blame is MLB for not actually having a policy. As much as you claim the PA fought, MLB let themselves get walked upon. That's a wash, in my mind. After all, we now have a policy in place because the PA's stance really never had any teeth. It just looked that way with how poorly MLB "fought" it.
45Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Mon, Feb 09, 2009, 21:31
All it took was a bunch of leaks about all the players using steroids and the fan backlash provided a great stepping stone to a real policy.
...

So, what took MLB so long? They've had the data for far longer than they've had any punishment


Thats not really true, KKB. It took a period of baby steps. The test ARod failed was agreed to in the 2002 collective bargaining agreement and was roundly criticized (including at this forum) for lacking any teeth. It would take 5% positive results from a test (which allowed ample notice for players to cycle off beforehand) to kick in further testing the following year, positive results from which would result in mandatory counseling, but no fine or suspension. It was a joke. And it was only after congress began to stick their heads into the issue that penalties were increased.

The one to blame is MLB for not actually having a policy.

You really have the power structure backwards. The franchises are hurt by strikes more than the players are. And the players have far more influence in writing policy than you seem to realize or acknowledge.
46astade
      ID: 191134222
      Mon, Feb 09, 2009, 22:15
one word to explain the situation: collusion
47Perm Dude
      ID: 2415292
      Mon, Feb 09, 2009, 22:38
The MLBPA dug their heels in big time on testing, and only agreed when the owners said that the first round would not count (sort of like getting a baseline for crime).

Forcing drug testing on employees against a union contract would involve a big federal backlash against the employers (in this case, MLB).
48walk
      ID: 181472714
      Wed, Feb 11, 2009, 14:51
Doug Glanville's view

He's written op-ed's before. Good reading.
49beebop
      ID: 175552221
      Wed, Feb 11, 2009, 21:58
How many different drugs do you think A-Rod was using? In an article im reading, he says "i dont know what substance i tested positive for"

To me that would mean he was using more than one and wont speak in the event it gets leaked what he was positive for, and it turns out to be different to what he admits he used.

50ChicagoTRS
      ID: 570422522
      Wed, Feb 11, 2009, 22:17
The SI article lists which drugs he tested positive for...Testosterone and Primobolan.

I think we can probably also safely assume he was (is?) on HGH...this seems to be one of the drugs of choice for all of the players.

As they reveal more and more players I kind of wonder why there is not more of an outcry to blood test players so we can also get HGH out of the game. Supposedly the urine test for HGH is still in the distant future.
51Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Thu, Feb 12, 2009, 07:20
Supposedly the blood test results in an unacceptable frequency of false positives. At least that's the PA's line and they clearly are sticking to it.
52Razor
      ID: 56038210
      Sun, Feb 22, 2009, 15:28
Something I have long advocated
53Seattle Zen
      ID: 431262211
      Sun, Feb 22, 2009, 15:36
Re post 52

That's funny, that's something I think is preposterously stupid, as is the vast majority of ESPN.com's ill informed, 8th grade moralizing that has infected its writers.
54Razor
      ID: 56038210
      Sun, Feb 22, 2009, 18:32
There's plenty of precedence for it in other sports. Do you think those are stupid too?
55Seattle Zen
      ID: 301402222
      Sun, Feb 22, 2009, 23:43
I noticed something on the cover of last year's Fantasy Baseball Index magazine, Razor, and thought of you. The cover boy is ARod and emblazoned across the top in all cap yellow letters: CHEATERS ALWAYS PROSPER: Fantasy Index Cheat Sheet.

That's pretty funny.
56ChicagoTRS
      ID: 3218189
      Mon, Feb 23, 2009, 12:46
I love this line from that article...

"And here's yours from 2001, Luis Gonzalez, after you finished behind The Barry Bonds Pharmacy. We won't even mention the home run title you would've won that year."

Luis was not on the juice? Come on Reilly...

I do not think you can strip awards because I think at this point we can safely say that probably well over half the league was on some form of performing enhancing drug from 1988-2003. Tag it the steroid era and move on...work on getting the drugs out of the current game.
57Razor
      ID: 32138722
      Mon, Feb 23, 2009, 13:05
But there is a difference between a steroid user who has been caught and one who has not.

It's pretty amazing the impact steroids had on the game. Look up and down the MVP and Cy Young award winners lists over the past two decades and it's shocking how many of the game's "top" players were cheating at the time. Just between the dirty MVP's and Cy Youngs between Clemens and Bonds alone you've got like 10% of the winners.
58Mith
      Dude
      ID: 01629107
      Wed, Feb 25, 2009, 07:09
a difference between a steroid user who has been caught and one who has not

Please define "caught". Reilly names 8 players he wants to disqualify from eligibility of MVP awards. However I don't recall half of those players (Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire and Adrian Beltre) ever being "caught".
59Perm Dude
      ID: 431013412
      Sat, Jan 11, 2014, 17:13
An old thread deserving of some resurrection.

Arbitrator just upheld the MLB suspension of ARod for the entire 2014 season (including any playoffs) but not including spring training games).

Don't know if this will be a career ender or not--surely someone, if not the Yanks, will want him as a DH at the least in 2015.
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