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Subject: RIBC 2009: ESPN vs. Yahoo
Posted by: Guru
- [330592710] Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 12:02
In the RIBC thread, I raised the option of moving the RIBC league from Yahoo to ESPN.
I'd also like to get feedback from those in the QLs as well.
The biggest differences seem to be as follows:
1. ESPN allows the ability to pick up a player and immediately insert him into the same day's lineup - if the addition occurs before the first game of the day. Yahoo always forces you to wait one day to place the player in your lineup.
2. Yahoo applies game limits to each position. So the catcher slot is limited to 162 games, the 1B slot is limited to 162, etc. ESPN applies the limits to all hitters in aggregate. So for a lineup with 12 active hitter slots, the aggregate limit would be 12x162 for all hitters combined.
3. Yahoo does not allow those outside of a league to view any of the league pages. ESPN allows a league to be marked as publicly viewable. This would allow all leagues to be monitored by anyone. And it would allow all QLs to be tracked using the same "split" standings programs that I have always provided for the RIBC.
4. ESPN provides free live scoring. Yahoo charges for that feature.
It's not necessary that all QLs use the same hosting site as the RIBC uses. And I suppose one possible approach is to designate one league to use ESPN this year as a "guinea pig".
I have had "deal-breaker" issues with ESPN's platform in the past, but a recent experience in a hoops league has been free of material problems in accessibility or processing - which is why I'm willing to put this "on the table".
What reactions do any of the QL managers have regarding the potential to use ESPN instead of Yahoo? |
| 1 | Fosten
ID: 500461016
Thu, Feb 19, 2009, 02:07
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I vote yes for ESPN! I don't use Yahoo for anything in my life anymore (other than RIBC). Last year, I migrated a league I commish from Yahoo to ESPN and was very happy. Let's do it!
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| 2 | RoboGuru
ID: 34129190
Thu, Feb 19, 2009, 02:13
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My only concern with ESPN is the aggregate hitter limit. It totally changes the draft and roster strategy.
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| 3 | Goldcoach
ID: 893426
Thu, Feb 19, 2009, 09:14
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I don't like the agregate hitter system either; although it would be harder to exploit in baseball since most teams play 6+ days a week. Rotating fourth outfield in to cover for a week hitting infielder/catcher only nets about 26 extra games a season. In Basketball the potential for abuse (some might consider it strategy) would be greater since teams frequently aren't in action the same day.
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| 4 | JeffG
Leader
ID: 01584348
Thu, Feb 19, 2009, 09:28
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Right now I have no preference, I am very comfortable with Yahoo having used them for all my fantasy baseball leagues over the years, but never had any issues with ESPN which I have used for several fantasy football seasons.
Since I am now joining the world of the mobile web community (a few months ago got a web enabled Blackberry for work) is there any differences with their friendliness to the mobile user? If there was a real benefit to one over the other, I could see that making the difference to me in deciding which one to use.
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| 5 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Feb 19, 2009, 10:04
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The answer is that you can add/drop/start/bench for the same day on all Verizon phones (potentially more coming) and you get a full boxscore and up-to-the-minute standings.
If I were playing in this league I would vote for ESPN. Guru and I play together in G20 Hoops and it has even done better than I thought it would. It's also free with a plethora of League Manager options, free live scoring and the ability to pick up a player same day and insert him in your lineup. Trades are 24 hrs (or even instantl if you choose) instead of 1.5-2 days--then waiting yet another day to actually use that player. Same thing for waivers. There are more.
I was unaware of the aggregate games played in hoops, but for us it really doesn't have much of an effect. We'd be switching our baseball league there too if they just had an answer or a workaround to our prospects issue.
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| 6 | TD
Leader
ID: 036331011
Thu, Feb 19, 2009, 11:10
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My preference is ESPN. The positives outweigh the negatives.
Positives:
- same day lineup change
- outside view of league pages
- free live scoring
Negatives
- unfamilier with ESPN user interface
Undecided if I prefer aggregate hitter game limit.
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| 7 | holt
ID: 4410182818
Thu, Feb 19, 2009, 21:48
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I don't view the ability to start a player the same day you pick him up as a good thing, at all. It's a boost for fantasy players who don't take the time to plan ahead (and a detriment to those who do take the time to look ahead).
As far as free stat-tracking goes, if you can't afford $10 for a stat tracker then you probably have better things to do than sit around following fantasy teams. Stat trackers are over-rated anyway. You're better off watching box scores... anyway, I'm obviously still pro-Yahoo.
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| 8 | Adam
ID: 32110188
Fri, Feb 20, 2009, 14:51
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Since it seems that the AAA leagues will follow the lead, I will put in my 2 cents for Yahoo!
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| 9 | gurudan
ID: 51562020
Fri, Feb 20, 2009, 22:07
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i've never played at ESPN, only YAHOO,so it is what it is. just let me know.
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| 10 | judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Fri, Feb 20, 2009, 23:36
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re Yahoo stat tracker -- I had Verizon DSL last year and the Yahoo stat tracker slowed my entire
Internet connection -- slowing connections down even when I was trying to access other sites while I
waited for Yahoo to get the data. I have Fios this year (the min speeds) but do not know if that will
make a difference.
That said, the familiarity of Yahoo leads me in that direction... but it doesn't really matter.
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| 11 | mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Sat, Feb 21, 2009, 15:53
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I'm up for whatever, and not adverse to a change.
Yahoo is probably easier for me, as most of my leagues are there
and I'll be purchasing their live scoring/stat tracker regardless.
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| 12 | Nerfherders
ID: 42412622
Sat, Feb 21, 2009, 17:30
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Another positive for ESPN, I believe, is that they show WHIP to four digits, which is a huge game-changer in my mind. I have won and lost leagues where there were ties in WHIP when we all know they aren't really ties.
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| 13 | blue hen
ID: 351241510
Sun, Feb 22, 2009, 10:31
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Re: 12. It's not just digits. All ties are broken even if the digits are not visible.
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| 14 | MattG
ID: 81282018
Sun, Feb 22, 2009, 18:26
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ESPN gets my vote... Just tell me where to sign up!
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| 15 | mybadteam
ID: 3311251713
Mon, Feb 23, 2009, 09:50
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My preference would be to keep everything at Yahoo. Yahoo now allows players to be visible when they are entered into the Yahoo DB (no more waiting for some rookies who don't get called up early in the season) or the traditional method (when the player is called up to the majors). They have also added the option of same day transactions. Just a couple of things to consider.
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| 16 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Feb 26, 2009, 14:26
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Based on the lukewarm response among the RIBC managers regarding a switch to ESPN, I'm going to keep the RIBC league at Yahoo for this season.
However, I hope that at least one of the QLs decides to use ESPN. As an inducement, for any QL that uses ESPN, I'll offer to develop and produce the same daily standings splits that I provide for the RIBC.
At the end of the season, I'll be curious to hear how any league using ESPN found the experience to be, compared to Yahoo. Hopefully, next year we can make a better informed decision to host all leagues at a common site.
Each league should make its own decision this year.
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| 17 | JeffG
Leader
ID: 01584348
Thu, Feb 26, 2009, 14:51
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Guru - I'm checking with the managers in AAA-IL - on the boards, and by email in case they are not checking in - to see if there is strong objection or any reservations. If not, we may opt to give it a try.
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| 18 | loki
SuperDude
ID: 4211201420
Fri, Apr 03, 2009, 10:15
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I was going to start a new thread, but found this one down on the list. Yahoo conveniently lists opposing pitchers making it easier to play match ups, but ESPN seems only to list the opposing team. Am I missing the way to get this information on my ESPN team site? Any other important differences noted?
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| 19 | Steve Biz
Sustainer
ID: 28952820
Fri, Apr 03, 2009, 21:26
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We were thinking of switching my league to ESPN this year but couldn't because we use the Yahoo! 5 games to qualify at a position rule and ESPN uses 20 (with seemingly no way to modify)....
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| 20 | revvingparson
ID: 462422119
Sat, Apr 04, 2009, 12:08
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Not sure how much effect it will have on strategy but each pitching slot gets 150 IP vs YAHOOS 1350 for the staff.
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| 21 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Sat, Apr 04, 2009, 12:56
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Not true. Both treat the limits identically for pitchers.
The difference is for hitters, where Yahoo applies the limits by position, but ESPN applies for all hitters in aggregate.
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| 22 | loki
SuperDude
ID: 4211201420
Sat, Apr 04, 2009, 13:38
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Another difference-Unless there was a glitch, I was not notified and given a chance to vote on a trade in ESPN Southern League.
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| 23 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Mon, Apr 06, 2009, 09:45
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Is there no way to move a pitcher to the DL? I know RIBC isn't using DL slots but the Rotoguru Auction league is, and it seems only hitters can be put on the DL?
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| 24 | blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Mon, Apr 06, 2009, 13:31
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You're definitely doing something wrong.
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| 25 | barilko6
ID: 35318613
Mon, Apr 06, 2009, 14:19
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I moved Lackey to the DL without any problems
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| 26 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Tue, Apr 07, 2009, 05:31
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Wether I'm in enhanced mode, I cannot move Hoffman or Smoltz to the DL. I click Move, and all the pitcher slots get a green Move button that I can move him to, but the two DL spots up in hitter have no green Move button. There are no DL spots under my benched pitchers.
In classic mode, there is no DL option in the dropdown menu beside either player.
So what do I do?
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| 27 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Tue, Apr 07, 2009, 05:34
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Ahh nm, just found the 'manage DL' link at the top. Seems like a non-intuitive way to do it, but then I haven't used anything but Yahoo for years.
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| 28 | Toral
ID: 575542418
Tue, Apr 07, 2009, 11:04
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ESPN won't remember me as being signed in. There's also no obvious place where you sign in, so you have to try to do something and then the sign-in screen pops up.
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| 29 | Nerfherders
ID: 347242717
Tue, Apr 07, 2009, 12:03
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I get that too. I have to be in 'Classic' mode to make moves or I don't get the option to move players because I am not signed in.
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| 30 | revvingparson
ID: 462422119
Wed, Apr 22, 2009, 08:06
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After roughly a month of using ESPN for "AA Southern", a couple of thoughts:
Overall I'm liking ESPN...they seem to have more of their info grouped better than Yahoo...yes some very similar presentations but layout is better organized for quick review...
BVP-with all the stats the league uses, nice to look at your roster and simply look at the numbers(by comparison Yahoo gives a narrative, but no actual stats for each player)
Like the same day claiming off waivers and placing in line up
Probable pitcher-nice to see each day right on your team home page who the probables are (again don't have to go looking in several different spots for info)
Do like the free up to date stats
Draft/regular season-a little difference in that Yahoo and ESPN have different criteria for eligibility-so I do have to remember where I am when I bounce back and forth between leagues
The hardest thing I'm having problems with is remembering to go to ESPN, since my other leagues are in YAHOO.
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| 31 | Khahan
ID: 486552412
Wed, Apr 22, 2009, 08:25
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Yes, using espn in the pac league I'm am having the worst problem simply remembering to check in since I am so used to Yahoo and checking both of those accounts.
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| 32 | blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Wed, Apr 22, 2009, 14:54
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There's an easy solution to that one: move your other leagues over to ESPN.
Just kidding (sort of); thanks for the comments.
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| 33 | Great One
ID: 46215212
Wed, Apr 22, 2009, 14:59
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BH - I guess if thats the main problem, thats a pretty good one. Thats my problem with G20 on CBS, I forget about it every day til later on. And in fact, thats the one I need to check first because of their stupid freeze times.
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| 34 | judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Sat, Apr 25, 2009, 23:48
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which thread has the link for projected starters for a few days out -- I can't find it!
Thanks.
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| 35 | Da Bomb
Donor
ID: 487112814
Tue, Jun 30, 2009, 20:44
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It wouldn't affect RIBC leagues currently since we do not use the DL, but one thing I do not like about ESPN is that you are able to stash players on your DL indefinitely even when the player is no longer injured. Yahoo prevents this from happening by not allowing you to make transactions once a player is healthy, but this is not the case with ESPN.
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| 36 | C1-NRB
ID: 31050820
Wed, Jul 01, 2009, 00:14
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An additional issue with ESPN:
When someone proposes a trade it shows up under "Your Pending Moves" as just a digit in parentheses (1).
It's easy to overlook.
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| 37 | JeffG
Leader
ID: 01584348
Tue, Sep 01, 2009, 10:30
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My office league played on Yahoo this season and the RIBC AAA league I was in was on ESPN. I commissionered both. With 5 months into the season and one month to go, here is some feedback.
Things I like better in Yahoo
- I like their player pool better because of their rank column which is calculated by season, month, and week. Easier to find hot player from the pool or those whose playing time has seen a significant change.
- Entering draft results was much simpler on both sites this season. It was slightly easier on Yahoo as it had the players page sorted in 'rank' order which cut down on mistakes, even though both drill down to the right player as you start typing in last name.
- Live scoring has plus/minus for each category for that day, on ESPN you only get plus/minus for total points.
- On the mobile team page for today's stats, You get your aggragate team stats while games are in progress, for the day where ESPN mobile does not.
- The 'distance from competition' bars on the standings page is very helpful, it would be better if I could view that for other teams, not just mine.
- Standings page gives you total IP and total games played for everyone where ESPN does not.
- I like being able to see when each manager was last active, to better track dropouts.
Things I like better on ESPN
- I definitely like being able to pick a player in the morning and have them be active on that day's roster.
- Significantly better mobile front end for my blackberry. I was able to tweak lineup changes remotely, which allowed me to start/bench based on that day's starting lineup.
- Free live scoring.
- I prefered counting towards your max games played by team instead of by position with the shallow bench format.
- I like being able to put up a few polls for league vote on the league front page.
Differences, but I have no leanings towards one over the other.
- The rankings for the averages categories do not round on ESPN where Yahoo rounds which yields a few more ties.
- Just a peeve, I wish either site would 'unlock' players whose game rained out after the official game start time so you can make a daily lineup change if someone else's game has not started yet.
Even though Yahoo has the edge in the free agent pool, standings, and information, my recomedation would be ESPN for RIBC in 2010 with the reasons being free live scoring (as opposed to $10 for the season on Yahoo), a significantly better mobile front end and the ability to do roster moves in the morning that take effect that day.
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| 38 | RoBoGuRu
ID: 14232210
Wed, Sep 02, 2009, 18:33
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one issue with espn (other than the others mentioned) that has bit me a few times this year:
probable starters are for current day, instead of the next day for yahoo...most of my moves occur at night and several times i have grabbed a PP only to realize that i just missed their start that night...i like to b able to look ahead a day and spot start a good matchup in yahoo...
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| 39 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Sep 02, 2009, 19:28
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There is a link for "Tomorrow's games", which shows the probable starters for tomorrow.
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| 40 | JeffG
Leader
ID: 01584348
Mon, Oct 05, 2009, 08:27
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Another difference between sites.
ESPN.com is counting the statistics from the one game playoff into the regular season rotisserie standings. I believe Yahoo is not.
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| 41 | holt
ID: 308491916
Mon, Oct 05, 2009, 14:13
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Better to not count them. I can imagine some mad raids for Twins and Tigers in tight ESPN leagues. I know I would if I was close in any categories. No doubt.
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| 42 | blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Mon, Oct 05, 2009, 14:21
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I can see how that might make a difference in H2H leagues, but less so in Roto leagues. I definitely don't think it's a good idea to just ignore those leagues.
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| 43 | JeffG
Leader
ID: 01584348
Mon, Oct 05, 2009, 14:49
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In the RIBC International, we are using ESPN. I'm sitting in 3rd place by 1.5 points, but 3rd place (and a potential top-3 invite to the RIBC majors) is up for grabs because of the extended season. I am holding a 0.001 WHIP advantage over the person in 4th (GoldCoach). I am out of innings, and GoldCoach smartly picked up 4 middle relievers from Minnesota and Detroit. If he passes me in WHIP, he'll take over 3rd.
So with Yahoo with WHIP as a 2-decimal rounded column, we'd stay tied in that column and I'd likely keep my lead, but with ESPN where we are ranked after WHIP is computed out to as many digits as is needed, and where tomorrow's game counts, we have a nail-biter.
I am not sure it is better or worse the ESPN way vs Yahoo, but sure adds to the drama. I guess I'll know Wednesday if I like this format difference or not ;)
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| 44 | Steve Biz
ID: 139486
Thu, Oct 08, 2009, 07:04
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I've often wished Yahoo counted whip out to .001 so it's interesting to hear that ESPN does that. However, I think it's dumb that they included the playoff game. That doesn't seem right to me.
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| 45 | Cordelia
ID: 5974037
Wed, Aug 03, 2011, 08:40
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Stands back from the kebyaord in amazement! Thanks!
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| 46 | Skidazl
ID: 264181116
Tue, Aug 30, 2011, 00:31
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Any updates on preference to either site?
I use Yahoo! right now only, and they are free live scoring now, any other new pros or cons more than is listed above?
The same day waiver moves would be nice...
Thanks, Dave
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