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0 Subject: TO DL OR NOT TO DL?

Posted by: judy
- Leader [7771722] Thu, May 21, 2009, 11:26

That is the question...

With all the injuries this year -- seemingly a lot to my guys, what are the prevailing opinions about
just one (1) DL spot for RIBC in the future?

Thoughts?
1MikeV
      SuperDude
      ID: 25924115
      Thu, May 21, 2009, 12:45
I second the motion to add a DL. I've been with only 2 healthy bench players all year and don't like it
2holt
      ID: 303502019
      Thu, May 21, 2009, 13:41
problem is, if memory serves, we've already been granted an extra bench slot instead of being given a DL slot.

I think one of the prime arguments against adding any more slots is that it would weaken the FA list even further than it already is. FA's in this league are hard to come by.

I understand the difficulty though. I currently have 5 players on the DL. I'm way behind on innings and can't always field a full lineup of hitters. Even so, I'd still vote against adding a DL slot, simply because of FA pool issues. That's my take on it anyway.
3Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, May 21, 2009, 14:05
As Holt mentions, we used to have just 3 bench slots and no DL. Rather than adding a DL slot several years ago, we decided to simply add an extra bench slot.

I'm not averse to reopening the question next season. But it has been up for discussion in the past, and never passed a vote.

I'd probably be more favorable toward a rule that says if you have more than a certain number of players eligible for the DL, you could put the excess player(s) in a DL slot. But that would require manual monitoring. Of course, we already have a manually monitored DL in RIHC (hoops), so even that is not without precedent.
4filthy
      ID: 388531216
      Sat, May 23, 2009, 00:40
I miss the days when a player could be too juiced up to need a DL stint.
5blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Sat, May 23, 2009, 12:24
I'm fairly strongly opposed to the DL slot, and have been pretty happy with the extra bench slot.
6judy
      Leader
      ID: 7771722
      Sun, May 24, 2009, 17:54
I realize the FA pickin's are quite slim, but a lousy guy might be better than no guy and that is
what has happened to me. Right now I am OK, but for a few weeks there it was messy.

The FA list is all about the mediocre players who get hot for a week or two anyway...
7blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Sun, May 24, 2009, 21:23
Your post doesn't make it entirely clear to me how a DL slot would help the situation.
8judy
      Leader
      ID: 7771722
      Sun, May 24, 2009, 23:55
If I put him on the DL, I can pick up another player -- with 4 BN and 1 DL. This esp works if
I have others on the DL but I can only put them on the BN -- I can't play them, so I am short.

Also with positions, I need to keep the DL guy for later, plus he might be one of the good
guys, so I want to keep him. If there is a DL, I can pick up another guy at that position to fill
the positional slot while he is on the DL. He'll be dumped ASAP the DL guy gets back.

As I said, it is OK for now, but was a problem. There just seem to be a ton of guys going on
the DL this year, or maybe this is the first time a lot of MY guys are on it...?
9revvingparson
      ID: 462422119
      Mon, May 25, 2009, 08:46
This is from last year's preseason post:

With 16 managers, the pool of players available (not already rostered) is very limited. Adding a DL will be another bench slot for a number of managers because someone else not having access to a player does help you maintain status quo. When behind and needing to address a category short-coming, there will be 16 fewer choices.

Should a player go on the DL, if he is good enough, you will keep him. Adding a DL just gums up the ability to improve your team via FA players.

Not having the DL allows a manager to invest a bench spot in a player that can be helpfull 60 days later, rather than giving that players owner a free ride during the injury period. WE all know how many players hit hot streaks and cold streaks and there is definite value in playing the FA add/drop game based on players scheduled for Coors or Franklin.

Adding a DL seems to be completely w/o merit in a l6 manager league.


I would add not having the DL adds another piece of strategy to an already tough league, do I/don't I drop an injured player. Will the short-term hurt be worth the long-term gain.

Also everyone is affected by not having a DL slot, yes a lot of Judy's injuries seemed to have come at once, but through out the year these things seem to even out.

Baseball perhaps more so than any other sport requires patience both on the field and in our fantasy locker rooms...
10blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Mon, May 25, 2009, 12:02
Exactly. You already have four slots for injured players. They are called bench slots. If four bench slots isn't enough for you to deal with your current injury situation, then maybe you should think about changing your strategy.

I don't think we even need to discuss this. There is one player clamoring for a DL slot and just about everyone else is opposed.
11holt
      ID: 303502019
      Mon, May 25, 2009, 13:46
Agree with revvingparson, RIBC is designed to be a difficult league and the lack of a DL slot adds to the overall strategy (however painful and infuriating DL situations can be). I don't think Judy was clamoring though, just bringing up the discussion.

12judy
      Leader
      ID: 7771722
      Mon, May 25, 2009, 14:20
Not clamoring -- just mentioning. RIBC weekly discussions are dull compared to RIFC. Was curious to see
what people thought and I did get responses!

There just seem to be a lot of DL injuries this season -- I wonder what the comparison is with previous
years. Where would one look for that info?
13youngroman
      Donor
      ID: 02934823
      Mon, May 25, 2009, 18:35
# of players to DL:
April + May 2008: 68 + 83 = 151
April to May 25 2009: 180

injuries are up by over 20 percent because May isn't over yet. Iwamura is #181, Anthony Reyes will be #182, and counting.

source: mlb.com transactions

with Guerrero back I have only 2 players sitting there: Posada and Kazmir. could be a season low for me.
14judy
      ID: 48642817
      Mon, May 25, 2009, 21:18
And of course I have Iwamura on one of my teams!

Thanks for the info YR!
15blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Tue, May 26, 2009, 10:01
Hint: drop Iwamura.
16judy
      Leader
      ID: 7771722
      Tue, May 26, 2009, 10:51
duh
17Building 7
      ID: 471052128
      Tue, May 26, 2009, 14:03
I don't think we even need to discuss this. There is one player clamoring for a DL slot and just about everyone else is opposed.

I think we should add a DL slot. The vote last year was 8-7 to not add a DL slot. Sounds pretty close to me. A DL slot will reward those managers with good roster management skills.
18holt
      ID: 303502019
      Tue, May 26, 2009, 15:06
a DL spot also gets used by teams without injuries to stash away players.
19Uptown Bombers
      Donor
      ID: 035616416
      Tue, May 26, 2009, 15:42
I don't see how a DL slot rewards managers with roster management skills. The opposite seems true to me. A DL slot gives every manager, regardless of roster management skills, one free pass on making a tough decision.
20judy
      Leader
      ID: 7771722
      Tue, May 26, 2009, 16:15
you can only put a DL player into a DL slot -- in Yahoo.
21blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Tue, May 26, 2009, 16:56
What about Manny? If you had Manny, you wouldn't be able to put him in a DL slot. Is that fair?
22Electroman
      ID: 47928246
      Tue, May 26, 2009, 17:40
I have had major problems with the DL this year. I have had 2 or 3 on the DL since the beggining, with 2 also being NA for family reasons. It just makes you work a bit harder. Sometimes injuries just hit you hard, and it sucks, but it is part of sports.
23judy
      Leader
      ID: 7771722
      Tue, May 26, 2009, 18:45
Manny is stupid -- he is not DL -- just stupid. JC Romero is listed as NA and that's what Manny is also.
They are sitting on the bench as NA. You wanna keep them it is your choice.

I am not talking about druggies; the DL is for injuries -- body parts that no longer work the
way they are supposed to. If you are officially on the DL as per MLB rules, you are on the DL. There is
no gray area. Real teams with players on the DL do not play with short benches...

One of my teams has Ar Ramirez, J Reyes, Infante and Soria on the DL. That league does have 2 DL
slots, so I can get some help there.

I think our discussion has been interesting and I really like YR's stats. 5 more to the DL today: J reyes, R
church, K Johjima, B Bruney, J montanez. It brings the total to 187. That's a lot with 5 days left to May.
24blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Tue, May 26, 2009, 18:52
Hint: Drop Infante.
25judy
      Leader
      ID: 7771722
      Tue, May 26, 2009, 19:43
Omar Infante
(Atl - 2B,3B,SS,LF)DL 30/86 13 1 11 1 7 37 .349 .389

why would I do that? compared to what's out there,he's studly...
26holt
      ID: 303502019
      Tue, May 26, 2009, 22:06
What I meant in post 18 is that managers of teams with no injured players would use their DL slots to raid the FA's and stash injured players (say, Tim Hudson for example).

It's interesting to see how long certain injured stars remain on the FA list. It's like a game of chicken. Everyone wants that player but no one wants him to take up a roster slot for too long.
27judy
      Leader
      ID: 7771722
      Tue, May 26, 2009, 23:14
aha holt,

I did not think that far ahead although I do mention that I have Smoltz on my DL in one league...
28holt
      ID: 303502019
      Wed, May 27, 2009, 00:06
I have 6 on the DL in RIBC right now and I'm usually able to start a full lineup of hitters. My pitching projection says -116 IP but I can make up ground there as the season goes on. Seems to me the current rules allow a team to compete in spite of a few injuries.

Actually, last season my AAA team was so plagued with injuries that I went into the RIBC thread and complained about the lack of a DL slot (prob just to blow off steam). In the end I won that league. Anyway, point is that I've gone through the DL crap and even though it's uncomfortable I found that you can still compete. If you lose 3 or 4 of your top players then you're just screwed anyway. A DL slot doesn't do much to make up for the loss of high quality players.
29judy
      Leader
      ID: 7771722
      Wed, May 27, 2009, 17:27
5-26-09
More DL:
b carlyle, j bartlett, uehara, nomar, miles, shields

total so far:193
30Building 7
      ID: 9329258
      Wed, May 27, 2009, 22:26
It may be caused by the World Baseball Classic.
31judy
      Leader
      ID: 7771722
      Fri, May 29, 2009, 20:07
more DL:

freel, A reyes,
Harrison, Myers, Quentin, K Greene, Ohman

Total = 200 with 2 days to go
2008 -- 151 at this time last year.
32blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Fri, May 29, 2009, 23:14
What about 2007? And how many of these players are relevant? Carlyle seems less important than the other guys.
33youngroman
      Donor
      ID: 02934823
      Sat, May 30, 2009, 05:21
since some of the previous seasons started in march I had to include their totals too. now this looks a bit different:

year: march + april + may = total
2009: 16 + 115 + 83 = 214 (WBC)
2008: 99 + 69 + 80 = 248
2007: 46 + 98 + 83 = 225
2006: 24 + 94 + 83 = 201 (WBC)
2005: 22 + 101 + 76 = 199
2004: 22 + 85 + 78 = 185
2003: 35 + 32 + 49 = 116
2002: 60 + 46 + 57 = 163
2001: 24 + 39 + 67 = 130

the average raised a lot the last few years, but there is not much difference this year compared to the last 3. also the WBC has not really affected the overall # of DL stints.

that being said, the only player on DL for me is now Kazmir.
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