RotoGuru Baseball Forum

View the Forum Registry

XML Get RSS Feed for this thread


Self-edit this thread


0 Subject: Salary Cap Baseball Games

Posted by: Alex - [3217239] Sat, Feb 20, 2010, 06:34

It seems like all of the salary cap baseball games with daily transactions are dead or dying: Rotohog, TSN, ESPN...none have announced launch dates, and they all had crummy prizes last year. There's definitely a market opportunity for someone to create a new one.

I'm 'lobbying' one of the daily fantasy contest sites (which have about 75% of the mechanism they'd need to run the game in place already) to set up a season long game. I'd like to do some advance market research to help persuade them.

Answers to any of the following questions would be useful. Assume that the game would involve selecting a lineup of players within some set salary cap every day. There would be a one-time entry fee. The top prize would be $10K, with maybe another $5K of prizes to the top 5 or 10 players.

1. Would you be interested in this?
2. What do you think the right entry fee to maximize the chance of covering the prize expenses would be?
3. What similar games have you played in the past?
4. If you could either enter multiple teams or assuming that the prize pool was scaled accordingly, what is the most you'd potentially invest in playing this game?
5. Do you currently play on any of the daily fantasy contest sites?
6. What other suggestions would you have to make this a success?
1Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Feb 22, 2010, 11:52
Sometimes, when other sites offering a full season salary cap game are having troubles reaching critical mass, there's a reason.

My sense is that the market for a full season, pay-to-play salary cap game has a limited market.

One key problem is that there are plenty of free roto league opportunities, and the casual player tend to gravitate to one of those.

A daily transaction salary cap game requires a significant ongoing commitment of attention and energy to compete at a high level. Most fantasy baseball players are unwilling to commit that level of attention. Work & vacations get in the way of the need to pay attention and make decisions every day. I think that's why daily contest sites fill a nice niche - they cater to those who don't want to have think about moves every single day.

I've not yet seen a daily contest site that offers statistical tools that are necessary to support a full season game. Obviously, I've filled that role for some of those ventures, although if the host site isn't prepared to commit to the availability of statistical information (points, prices, position eligibility), it is going to have trouble gaining traction.
2Jeddi
      ID: 561026116
      Mon, Feb 22, 2010, 13:29
I feel daily contests are tough because it's just so random. At least with a year long contest you even out your risk on a day to day basis by making smart choices.

I would be interested, I think 10 dollars a team is a good starting point for interest. The only one I've played is TSN, though I am considering CDM Diamond Challenge. I would be interested in a daily transaction cap game with almost prize structure. I don't do any daily contests. I think you need to make it free or cheap for a year or two, just to get people to play it and I think it'll be addicting. Maybe your first team is free but if you want additional it costs so much for each one. TSN really killed their golden goose with poor functionality of their games and changing when it didn't seem to be necessary.
3MikeV
      SuperDude
      ID: 25924115
      Wed, Feb 24, 2010, 13:18
I would definitely be interested a daily transaction salary cap game. I have no interest in prizes and would be willing to pay in the $10-15 range with discounts for multiple teams.
4JKaye
      Leader
      ID: 01372359
      Fri, Feb 26, 2010, 09:14
Fanball.com has a number of salary cap games, but all use a 28
man roster/60 Mil format, with what appears to be weekly, not
daily roster moves. Definitely doesn't feel right.

I would say for my ideal salary game, it should mirror what
Smallworld/TSN has done, such as:
-$20-30 fee per team (plus a free "basic" option)
-high top prizes, plus division prizes
-14 man rosters
-daily price changes
-new trades each week

I never had a problem with any of those things, so I would just
want to keep that format alive. Obviously, the roster size doesn't
have to be 14; it's just what everyone is used to that plays
(played?) TSN.
5Bond, James Bond
      Leader
      ID: 04352469
      Sun, Mar 07, 2010, 17:09
Anybody around here know if/when TSN/Hog will be offering their Ultimate game this year? If not them, then where are most players going?
6Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sun, Mar 07, 2010, 17:39
RotoHog/TSN salary cap baseball

No target date, but "Coming soon" suggests there will be a game.
7Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Mar 09, 2010, 10:09
RotoHog Stock Exchange baseball has been launched. Interestingly, the interface looks like a clone of the TSN interface.
8eMets
      ID: 40214912
      Tue, Mar 09, 2010, 13:14
The RH interface is their own, looks like TSN since RH was
contracted to "run" TSNs games since Football '09. It seems the
reason the RH SalCap is delayed is they are trying to run the
game that would have run at TSN, but on their own site. All
mention of these games has ceased in emails, only the "Coming
Soon" remains. It is the opinion of some that TSN has or is
cutting ties with RH, and a lawsuit may be about to happen if RH
launches that SalCap game.

So the only game out now with player pricing that changes is the
RH Stock game. Fanball has nice prizes, 3 different SalCap
games,
-One is $30 entry, then buy trades ($60 to max out, plus $2 per
bench switch) and win $750 League prize
-Budget game is just $30, then free trades (limit 14, plus no-
limit bench switches) to win $100 League prize
-One is free, then buy 120 trades for $25, get one free trade per
week and no bench -- this is most similar to TSN IMO -- to win
$1000,$500,$250,$100,$50 for top 5 of 100 at year end, plus
weekly chance at $100, as well as Top200 Overall Rank cash
prizes at end. Roster does lock each week, but I like these
prizes, and the limit of 120 trades for the year is as close as any
of these come to TSN trade dispersal.

Finally, I've tried to create a TSN Ultimate "clone" league on
Fantrax, which seems to have nice features, see the league info
and check it out, play with it, put in your 2 cents:

http://forums.sportingnews.com/viewtopic.php?t=603847



9JKaye
      Leader
      ID: 01372359
      Tue, Mar 09, 2010, 22:16
That last one is really cool, eMets. I joined that league.

Here is the info that eMets posted on the TSN message boards:

Game link:
http://www2.fantrax.com/

Steps:
1. Register Free for site
2. Click "Join League" Link (Private)
League ID: r5w1ugkfg6jnqyik
Password: tsnrefugee


Obviously the league ID is hilarious, but the site itself is really
nice. I was impressed after getting thru the minor hassle of
registering and copying and pasting that ID.

Anyone with any nostalgic spot for Smallworld should definitely
check out eMets link and the frantrax one. Even a league with
only 100 teams with 156 total trades (read to find out why I
mentioned these facts) over the whole year is a potentially very
fun format under TSN rules, especially if multiple leagues are
spawned.
10Bond, James Bond
      Leader
      ID: 04352469
      Thu, Mar 11, 2010, 10:19
Noticed that TSN/Rotohog has their Ultimate game up now. Anybody going to give it a shot?
11mjd
      Leader
      ID: 501381415
      Fri, Mar 12, 2010, 02:18
Might be ahhhh....................... no
12 JC Rebs
      ID: 52230256
      Fri, Mar 12, 2010, 07:27
bought one Rotohog salary cap ultimate( premier) team,
seems to be same format as TSN had, except there is no mention of 5 day trading cycle for pitchers, prices for pitchers are very low, Lincecum is top at about $6.50 million, 2009 points shown for hitters and pitchers seem to be cut in half, hitter prices are still high ( pujols over $12 million). Ultimate points scoring system seems unchanged from TSN, while basic points are cut in half , which may have been the case at TSN, but I never played basic so I am not familar with TSN basic scoring. Seems to me that player pricing is mixed up between ultimate and basic, and 2009 points are also mixed up.
If I had seen Rotohogs full description of their game, I would not have bought a team, but I was not able to see this info, possibly due to my own ineptness.
Have played Ultimate since the Smallworld days, learned my strategy from Rotoguru, and enjoyed it greatly. Wish we could go back to those days.
13Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Mar 12, 2010, 10:19
Game rules for RotoHog Salary Cap

There are separate tabs for the basic and "premiere" (Ultimate) games.

I have not studied these closely. The scoring formula for basic appears to be 50% of the premier formula. The two games previously used the same formula. I think the formula is the same as in recent years.

If anyone notices other differences from prior years, please point them out.

I will not be able to post a full set of prices for awhile. But you can always sign up for the basic (free) game and see them. I assume that the initial prices for both games are the same, but it would be useful to have someone confirm that.

My presumption is that TSN is now out of the fantasy games business, but I have heard no confirmation of that, and folks at TSN are very closed-mouth about the situation.
14wolfer
      ID: 25521311
      Fri, Mar 12, 2010, 15:15
Re 13.

I got an email confirmation, did anyone else?
15I Hate Philadelphia
      ID: 331191713
      Fri, Mar 12, 2010, 15:19
ESPN also has a game. Should be launching next week.
16damoose7474
      Leader
      ID: 181042723
      Fri, Mar 12, 2010, 15:31
so they are giving everyone a free league on cbs sportsline?
17blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Fri, Mar 12, 2010, 15:33
Dear Valued Fantasy Baseball Player,

Due to a shift in our core business strategy, SportingNews.com will no longer offer fantasy baseball games. The fantasy industry is changing, and we feel it's best to devote our resources to providing the best fantasy content and advice on the internet, and beyond. We believe SportingNews.com's fantasy content, tools and advice are already best in class, and over the next few months, we will completely redesign the Fantasy Source section of our site to deliver a new and improved user experience. With this shift in strategy, we will dedicate our entire fantasy staff to building Fantasy Source into the number one destination for fantasy information, accessible via internet, mobile devices, and other new technologies.
18VP.
      ID: 142211215
      Fri, Mar 12, 2010, 16:21
I just got this message:

Dear Valued Fantasy Games Player,

Due to a shift in our core business strategy, SportingNews.com will no longer offer new fantasy games going forward (excluding Strat-O-Matic). The fantasy industry is changing, and we feel it's best to devote our resources to providing the best fantasy content and advice on the internet, and beyond. We believe SportingNews.com's fantasy content, tools and advice are already best in class, and over the next few months, we will completely redesign the Fantasy Source section of our site to deliver a new and improved user experience. With this shift in strategy, we will dedicate our entire fantasy staff to building Fantasy Source into the number one destination for fantasy information, accessible via internet, mobile devices, and other new technologies.

The SportingNews.com fantasy staff shares and understands the disappointment that comes with this decision. We realize that the Sporting News community of fantasy players is extremely competitive and appreciate that many of our members have been asking about our fantasy baseball games and delaying their leagues, waiting for our launch. In an effort to show our appreciation to you, our loyal customer, we have partnered with CBSSports.com to allow you to create a Baseball Commissioner League, at a 50% discount, during the 2010 season. Simply click here to sign up. You must use this link to receive your discounted league, a $89.99 value.

If the sign up link does not work, copy and paste this URL into your browser:
http://baseball.cbssports.com/splash/baseball/spln/single?ttag=fbbp10_on_all_spnw_na_em_0001

Please be assured that this decision was not taken lightly and we truly believe this is the beginning of great things for us in the fantasy content environment. If you haven't already, we hope you will check out Fantasy Source. We will continue to provide fantasy players with the same great content and add many new and improved features.

Finally, for those of you with outstanding site credits, we are in the process of setting up a way for you to convert those into other Sporting News products or cash. We will be contacting you shortly. If you have any questions or concerns, you can reach us at fantasygames@sportingnews.com.

Sincerely,
Jeff Price
President/Publisher
19Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Mar 12, 2010, 16:30
Interesting that they have a transition discount arrangement with CBS, but make absolutely no mention of RotoHog.

Sounds like some bad blood is involved.
20Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Fri, Mar 12, 2010, 16:32
Out of curiosity, what do I do with the hundreds of "tokens" I have? They have nothing to sell me for those tokens now.
21walk
      Dude
      ID: 32928238
      Fri, Mar 12, 2010, 16:38
Just got it, too. This was my first year not playing TSN/Smallworld since like 1998, and I guess that trend will now continue. Times are a changin'.
22dpr
      ID: 552411820
      Fri, Mar 12, 2010, 17:41
I got an offer for a free game, not a discounted one. Maybe it is relative to how much you have used their site?
23Philsphan
      ID: 530191220
      Fri, Mar 12, 2010, 18:15
The e-mail I got from TSN addressed the tokens:

Finally, for those of you with outstanding site credits, we are in the process of setting up a way for you to convert those into other Sporting News products or cash. We will be contacting you shortly. If you have any questions or concerns, you can reach us at fantasygames@sportingnews.com.
24Jeddi
      ID: 561026116
      Fri, Mar 12, 2010, 18:16
ESPN is going to have a game? Can someone explain that comment? Will it be like the old TSN game?
25wolfer
      ID: 11401720
      Fri, Mar 12, 2010, 21:38
The game that ESPN has is not even close to TSN.
26Bond, James Bond
      Leader
      ID: 04352469
      Fri, Mar 12, 2010, 23:30
Too bad Guru just doesn't run the games huh?
27Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sat, Mar 13, 2010, 11:53
Oddly enough, the advertised prices (to buy a team) for the RH premier salary cap game on the front page are higher than those on the actual ordering page.

The front page say that a 3-team pack costs $54.99, but if you click to buy a team, the offered price for a 3-team pack is only $39.99 ($34.99 earlybird).

There are similar discrepancies fore 5-team packs.

Not a good sign for quality control!

28eMets
      ID: 40214912
      Sat, Mar 13, 2010, 14:51
Another discrepancy on the Hog games is the scoring system. It
shows the typical SN scoring under the FAQ, then shows a few
scoring categories at half the value under League Details. Much
like a high-school plagiarizer who can't copy correctly. Hah.

BTW, for anyone who used to play the SN BAsic Baseball game
with Maximum Trade Buying, or was in the recurring mojomike
PPL league, I again have a Fantrax Custom league that will
replicate that experience, and pay better prizes than Rotohog,
with a lower entry fee to buy the trades. See details in the
thread link here:

http://forums.sportingnews.com/viewtopic.php?t=604322

29Texas Flood
      ID: 7101698
      Fri, Apr 02, 2010, 15:36
I've seen no one mention Citizen Sports. A couple of Facebook
friends and I are playing. We found the game through a link on FB.
It reminds me of the early smallworld game its not complex,
complicted, no prizes and its free. I could be a lot of fun.
30Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Apr 02, 2010, 16:51
I actually did try the Facebook game last year. Was disappointed at the buggy interface, poor (and apparently disinterested) customer service, and often incomplete stats. Decided not to bother this year.

I guess you get what you pay for.
31Texas Flood
      ID: 7101698
      Fri, Apr 02, 2010, 17:02
Guru your description sounds like you're describing the last day of
TSN. My interest for fantasy sports has waned after 20+ years but
I was challenged by some young upstarts that think they invented
the game. good see'n ya!
Rate this thread:
5 (top notch)
4 (even better)
3 (good stuff)
2 (lightweight)
1 (no value)
If you wish, you may rate this thread on scale of 1-5. Ratings should indicate how valuable or interesting you believe this thread would be to other users of this forum. A '5' means that this thread is a 'must read'. A '1' means that this is a complete waste of time.

If you have previously rated this thread, rating it again will delete your previous rating.

If you do not want to rate this thread, but want to see how others have rated it, then click the button without entering a rating, or else click here.

RotoGuru Baseball Forum

XML Get RSS Feed for this thread




Post a reply to this message: Salary Cap Baseball Games

Name:
Email:
Message:
Click here to create and insert a link
Click here to insert a block of hidden (spoiler) text
Click here to insert a random spelling of Mientkiewicz
Ignore line feeds? no (typical)   yes (for HTML table input)


Viewing statistics for this thread
Period# Views# Users
Last hour11
Last 24 hours33
Last 7 days66
Last 30 days3327
Since Mar 1, 2007134903328