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0 Subject: The Debut of Strasburg

Posted by: Bond, James Bond
- Leader [04352469] Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 16:50

How do you all see Strasburg doing in his MLB debut?

Put me down for 6 IP, 2 runs, 3 hits, 2 BB's, 8 K's in a no-decision outing for him.
1Electroman
      ID: 565182111
      Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 17:16
Woody Paige predicted on Around the Horn that he was gonna pitch a perfect game. Put me down for that.
2RecycledSpinalFluid
      Dude
      ID: 204401122
      Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 17:16
At MLB's current pace: Perfect game.
3RecycledSpinalFluid
      Dude
      ID: 204401122
      Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 17:17
LOL...great minds think alike...and I mean me and Woody... ;)
4C1-NRB
      ID: 2911103011
      Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 17:38
Just to be contrary, I'll call for a Wilson Alvarez-debut line.

Multiple hits (Alvarez gave up three doubles with a BB or two mixed in, if I recall correctly; and I should since I was there), no outs. Infinite WHIP, infinite ERA.

FWIW, Alvarez threw a no-hitter in his second major league start two years later. So all wouldn't be lost, necessarily.
5Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 17:41
He gets the Pirates and Indians right off the bat, so he SHOULD be successful, but who knows?

I doubt he goes more than 6. Ks mean more pitches and I think he has a max of 90 pitches or somewhere around there.
6Building 7
      Leader
      ID: 171572711
      Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 18:25
Looks like Pudge is coming off the DL to catch. Perfect.
7KrazyKoalaBears
      ID: 12353217
      Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 18:30
5 IP, 4 H, 0 ER, 1 BB, 7 K, W
8weykool
      ID: 351422416
      Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 18:38
5 IP, 6 H, 2 ER, 3 K, 2W
9DWetzel
      ID: 33337117
      Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 19:40
I'll take 5.1 IP, 6H, 2ER, 6K, 3BB.
10KrazyKoalaBears
      ID: 12353217
      Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 20:39
He's only Andy LaRoche away from having struck out each one of the Pirates' starters at least once.

If he gets to pitch the 7th, he'll get a chance.
11KrazyKoalaBears
      ID: 12353217
      Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 20:52
That's it! He's struck out every single Pirates' starter at least once. 103 MPH and struck out the side in the 7th inning. For all the doubters, he's for real. This is sick to watch.
12KrazyKoalaBears
      ID: 12353217
      Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 20:56
Pinch hit for. He's done.

7 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, 0 BB, 14 K (pitcher of record for W)

Interesting side note: After the HR in the 4th, he retired every Pirate he faced. That was 10 in a row, with 8 strikeouts (7 in a row to finish his night).
13dpr
      ID: 552411820
      Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 20:57
Yea he was pretty crazy. Struck out the last 6 batters he faced, all swinging. Had one inning where he struggled a bit but was totally dominant other than that.
14astade
      Sustainer
      ID: 214361313
      Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 21:02
don't forget he was facing the Pirates...
15KrazyKoalaBears
      ID: 12353217
      Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 21:23
dpr, don't forget the strikeout to end the 5th. 7 in a row.

astade, sure, but show me another pitcher with this kind of game against the Pirates recently.

Carlos Silva? Similar with 7 IP and 1 ER, but only 5 K.

Reigning Cy Young Award Winner Tim Lincecum? 7 IP, 6 H, 3 ER, 2 BB, 6 K.

Todd Wellemeyer? 3 IP, 9 H, 6 ER, 3 BB, 2 K.

Jonathan Sanchez? 6.1 IP, 5 H, 0 ER, 2 BB, 5 K.

Ted Lilly? 7.2 IP, 6 H, 3 ER, 4 BB, 6 K.

Even going back to the Pirates' last couple of shutouts, it's arguable that Strasburg was more dominant...

05/26 Bronson Arroyo: 7.2 IP, 5 H, 0 ER, 2 BB, 3 K.

05/21 Tim Hudson: 8.0 IP, 3 H, 0 ER, 4 BB, 3 K

Yes, it's just the Pirates, but they're still an MLB team. A lot of people seem to keep waiting for him to falter so they can scream, "See, I told you he's not the second coming of Cy Young (or some other great pitcher)!" but they're missing the point that the kid is about a month shy of 22 years old and he's already dominating at every level. He'll have his ups (tonight, for sure) and downs, but it's looking like those who thought he would be a complete bust might have to reconsider their evaluation; an evaluation that wasn't based on any actual scouting of Strasburg anyhow.

Me, personally? It's nice to know that the Nats have a pitcher that can actually turn the tide of the team's fortunes. He looks like he could be the type of pitcher who can end a losing streak and/or start a winning streak for the team. That's something they haven't had. Period. Add in some key players around him (like Storen and now Bryce Harper) and they could actually be legitimately competing for the division or wild card next season. Strasburg obviously can't do it alone, but neither could any of the other greats in baseball history. He'll have a LONG way to go beyond tonight to legitimize any comparison with any baseball legend, but everyone had to start somewhere and he did a good job in a lot of situations tonight, including pitching behind in the count, recouping after a lead-changing HR, and more. For me, it's more about a different attitude for the club than it is about Strasburg as an individual and there's no doubt he's already changed the attitude of the club.
16KrazyKoalaBears
      ID: 12353217
      Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 21:27
Final! 5-2 for the Nationals.

Strasburg: 7.0 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, 0 BB, 14 K, 1 HR, W

As Rob Dibble just said, it's nice to beat the teams we should be beating. :)
17Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Tue, Jun 08, 2010, 22:48
He did pretty well--the pressure is certainly there and he seemed to handle it well. Pitchers who hitters have never seen before always have the upper hand and the Nats are certainly setting him up for early success.

On the other side, Jeff Karstens went against Strasburg tonight, and his next game is against Detroit--and Gallarraga!

Karstens is the guy you get up and get some popcorn and a drink when you see him coming out.
18Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Jun 09, 2010, 11:26
I watched the game and thought he was more dominant in the 7th than the rest of the game. It seems he started throwing more off speed when they were making contact. His circle change is an unbelievable 91 mph!!! That's the avg fastball speed in MLB!

I gotta admit, that this kid is even better than I thought.
19weykool
      ID: 351422416
      Wed, Jun 09, 2010, 12:08
I think Strasburg is a great story for baseball.
Only time will tell how really good he is.
Lets not forget Fernandomania.
He won his first 8 games to start the 1981 season and looked virtually unhittable.
From start #9 on he was mediorce at best.
20JeffG
      Dude
      ID: 01584348
      Wed, Jun 09, 2010, 12:53
Strasburg was great last night.

Watching the game and the energy from the ballpark actually reminded me of the highly anticipated debut of Hideki Irabu
21C1-NRB
      ID: 2911103011
      Wed, Jun 09, 2010, 14:19
That was a great performance. Time will tell if he can keep it up.

I wish the best for him. Too many sure-fire-can't-misses come out of the gate strong but flame out. Hopefully GM's in general have learned from those mistakes (David Clyde).

It helps that he's a college guy and not straight-from-HS.
22Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, Jun 09, 2010, 15:31
Mark Prior is another flame out example.
23R9
      ID: 2854239
      Wed, Jun 09, 2010, 17:06
Yeah, the college thing along with a strict pitch count and likely a yearly IP limit will likely help reduce his likelyhood of getting Prior'd.

It is somewhat scary to hear that his mechanics are very similar to Prior's, but you can just hope for different bodies and all that.
24darkside
      Achiever
      ID: 3590317
      Wed, Jun 09, 2010, 18:37
I was there last night. The energy of the crowd was fantastic and it was easily one of the nicest days of the year (and likely one of the last before a hot, humid summer starts).

Not sure if it was the first or second time facing Karstens, but he threw heat at like 99mph and then an 81mph curve and my friend looked at me and said "C'mon, that's not fair. You can't throw the opposing pitcher that curve after a fastball. Karstens should plunk him next time up."

He really made people look silly. It's exciting to follow and root for the Nats when they have a talent like this.

I think I may go to his next few home games...
25astade
      ID: 20521919
      Wed, Jun 09, 2010, 20:22
KKB, I was just pointing out that it was against the Pirates (not considered an offensive juggernaut, by any means). Don't worry, I watched the game and enjoyed his performance as much as you did.
26Bond, James Bond
      Leader
      ID: 04352469
      Mon, Jun 14, 2010, 00:33
Well, not as impressive as his first start but that mound in Cleveland certainly wasn't helping either.
27KrazyKoalaBears
      ID: 721308
      Mon, Jun 14, 2010, 09:48
RE: 26: The mound was causing some serious issues. MASN had a fantastic HD close-up of his plant foot on the final ball to Hafner in the 6th and his foot slid about 3-4 inches. The Washington announcers had been talking about it for several batters, particularly after the first repair.

Still, when you look at his line, it's still a good line:
5.1 IP, 2 H, 1 ER, 5 BB, 8 K, W

That last part is key. Once again, he can turn the tide for the Nationals and end a losing streak and start a winning streak.

And if you drop the BB to a more reasonable number, in line with his history (and assuming he would have completed the inning without the "sliding" walks), it probably would have been more like:
6 IP, 2 H, 1 ER, 2 BB, 8 K, W

I'm definitely excited to see what he can do in his next start when he's not sharing the plant spot on the mound with the opposing pitcher.

By the way, the announcers had a list of pitchers that had never had a 14K game in their career. A lot of guys like CC Sabathia and Roy Oswalt were on the list. I can't remember all the names (maybe Cliff Lee, too), but it was quite an impressive list.
28Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Aug 27, 2010, 15:40
An MRI showed Strasburg has a "significant" tear of the ulnar collateral ligament in his elbow which will probably require Tommy John surgery, general manager Mike Rizzo told CSNWashington.com. link
29KrazyKoalaBears
      ID: 12353217
      Fri, Aug 27, 2010, 18:18
Sucks for Strasburg and the Nats. Regardless of surgery or not, I'm hoping for a quick return because he was a lot of fun to watch.
30Bond, James Bond
      Leader
      ID: 04352469
      Sat, Aug 28, 2010, 01:23
Strasburg is now what Kerry Wood used to be...and that can't be a good sign going forward. I feel sorry for the kid but we all know he'll never be the same again.
31dpr
      ID: 40781923
      Sat, Aug 28, 2010, 09:22
I don't think we can already say that he wont be the same again. Pitchers have came back from Tommy John and been at the top of their game. It will be a long road to recovery though.
32KrazyKoalaBears
      ID: 12353217
      Sat, Aug 28, 2010, 09:35
"We all know he'll never be the same again."

AJ Burnett, Chris Carpenter, Ryan Dempster, Jaime Garcia, Tim Hudson, Josh Johnson, Fransisco Liriano, John Smoltz, Kerry Wood and several others would like to note their disagreement with this statement.

...unless you mean that the internal arrangement of his tendons will always be different than they were before, in which case you are correct.

"Strasburg is now what Kerry Wood used to be"

To some extent, yes. To a larger extent, no.

Being a Nats fan, I've been reading a LOT about Strasburg and the comments associated with the articles. It's kind of funny to me that some people are equating Strasburg with Wood at this point because Wood's problem is a career of injuries. There are several Tommy John pitchers that don't go on to have a career of injuries, but Wood sticks out because of his rookie season, so any young pitcher who suffers their first injury is automatically equated with Wood.

It should be noted that Wood's recovery from Tommy John surgery was complete:

1998: 166.2 IP, 13-6, 3.40 ERA, 1.212 WHIP, 233 K (12.6 K/9), 85 BB (2.74 K/BB)
[surgery and recovery]
2001: 174.1 IP, 12-6, 3.36 ERA, 1.256 WHIP, 217 K (2.36 K/9), 92 BB (2.36 K/BB)
2002: 213.2 IP, 12-11, 3.66 ERA, 1.245 WHIP, 217 K (9.1 K/9), 97 BB (2.24 K/BB)
2003: 211.0 IP, 14-11, 3.20 ERA, 1.194 WHIP, 266 K (11.3 K/9), 100 BB (2.66 K/BB)

2004 was when Wood started experiencing injuries again, but not in his elbow. The injuries were in his triceps, his knee and his shoulder. It wasn't until 2007 that he had elbow issues again. And we can't forget the injuries he had from falling out of a hot tub.

Simply put, Kerry Wood is a walking, talking, pitching injury waiting to happen. He's the guy you don't want to sit next to because something's sure to go wrong. If every pitcher who ever got injured -- even every YOUNG pitcher who ever got injured -- was the next coming of Kerry Wood, then we simply wouldn't have enough pitchers to play a full slate of games every day. Wood has been exceptional in a LOT of things, both good and bad, in his career.
33R9
      ID: 2854239
      Sun, Aug 29, 2010, 12:18
However, there was tons of talk about how unhealthy his mechanics were. After watching him snap that elbow to get that extra speed on every fastball, this injury really isn't that surprising.

Liriano is a great example of what to expect. He's back, doing well... but will never be the same guy as he was back in his rookie year. He had to alter his mechanics to prevent doing it again. Strasburg will as well. You just can't keep throwing the way he did without destroying your elbow.

That said, that doesn't mean Strasburg wont learn a different way to pitch that is every bit as effective. Liriano had to cut down on his sliders, losing some dominance. Of Strasburg loses 3-4 mph but is still the smart, saavy pitcher he is today, there's no reason he can't be Josh Johnson the 2nd.
34Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Aug 31, 2010, 17:53
Hudson looks pretty darn good after his surgery--even in his mid-30s.
35blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Tue, Aug 31, 2010, 17:55
Who are the guys who didn't come back strong.
36holt
      Donor
      ID: 308491916
      Tue, Aug 31, 2010, 18:12
Yeah I've noticed that pitchers are often better following tommy john surgery.
37KrazyKoalaBears
      ID: 12353217
      Tue, Aug 31, 2010, 18:40
Liriano is a great example of what to expect. He's back, doing well... but will never be the same guy as he was back in his rookie year.

I wouldn't be so sold on him never being the same. It's clear with his "tired arm" that he's still building back stamina/strength. Despite that...

2006: 12-3, 121.0 IP, 2.16 ERA, 1.000 WHIP, 10.7 K/9, 4.5 K/BB
2010 (Post-ASB): 6-0, 51.0 IP, 2.47 ERA, 1.24 WHIP, 9.53 K/9, 2.6 K/BB

Compared to his Pre-ASB stats, he's looking a lot closer to where he was now than he was just a few months ago. Looking at 2009 and 2008 stats (and velocity), I would say he's not done rebuilding yet.

Yeah I've noticed that pitchers are often better following tommy john surgery.

Saw a few articles recently that have attributed this to the slow decline in stats due to the deterioration of the arm, making the recovery look that much more impressive. Still, if Strasburg is somehow better than he was before this injury, that would be pretty incredible.
38Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Sep 01, 2010, 19:32
I've read and heard many people talk about how that their arms will be even stronger than before. haven't heard of anyone needing a 2nd Tommy John surgery--though there probably is someone out there somewhere.
39Razor
      ID: 265539
      Wed, Sep 01, 2010, 19:39
Aw, come on, Ref. Kuo has had two TJ surgeries and Dreifort as well.
40R9
      ID: 2854239
      Thu, Sep 02, 2010, 16:00
37, stats really only tell a part of the story. Liriano was told that if he continued to throw as many sliders as he did, he'd probably need TJS every 2-3 years. Arms just werent meant to throw that many, at least his wasn't.

So he altered his mechanics, and is now throwing far more fastballs and off-speed stuff. His slider has a bit less bite do to a safer arm angle. He pitches more to contact instead of going for the K, which is seeing his hits-allowed climb a bit. (Still striking out alot of guys, a testament to his stuff, but he's not K'ing them the same way.) In short, he's a different pitcher.

That doesn't mean its bad, in fact its probably an improvement that is leading him to be a smarter pitcher. But he is different.
41blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Fri, Sep 03, 2010, 10:05
Let's talk specifics here. I have a team in a 12-team, 10-keeper league. I got Strasburg off the wire a couple days ago. I can't keep him as a prospect (like Ref in G20), so I have to use an actual slot on him. Worth it for a guy who won't play in 2011?

As a caveat, this league has 3 DL slots, so my intent is to put him there for all of next year and not waste a roster slot. Thoughts?
42DWetzel
      ID: 278201415
      Fri, Sep 03, 2010, 11:44
If you have the DL spots, it seems like a no-brainer to keep him, he's still going to be an elite pitcher down the line.
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