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0 Subject: 2010 Yankees Off Season Thread

Posted by: Seattle Zen
- Leader [055343019] Wed, Oct 20, 2010, 11:36

But for the 8th inning of game one, this thread would have been timely last night. Instead, it's T-minus 7-8 hours until we can talk about their desire to sign Carl Crawford.
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76Da Bomb
      ID: 508161517
      Wed, Nov 10, 2010, 13:30
Yanks meeting with Lee today. I'd be surprised if they don't get him. Don't remember the last time the Yanks didn't sign someone they really wanted. Plus I don't think he has any strong ties to Texas since he was only there a couple months.
77Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, Nov 10, 2010, 13:59
Don't remember the last time the Yanks didn't sign someone they really wanted.

The Yankees have always been very careful in the FA market, IMO, right from the start (the first FA marketplace was 1976, when the Yankees got Reggie Jackson). They were spurned in that first season of free agency, however--they had targeted Bobby Grich for SS and when he went to the Angels they put out some rumors that they weren't sure of his ability and they couldn't sign him because of his demands (which was funny because he didn't make any--he just didn't want to play for them).

There are also a number of players who have "no Yankee" clauses in their contracts (most famously, I think, Ken Griffy Jr.).
78Mith
      ID: 2210551019
      Wed, Nov 10, 2010, 20:55
Plenty of players have clauses where they will provide their team with some specified minimum number of teams they'd accept being traded to. And maybe I've heard some players working in the right to veto any trade. But I've never heard of any specific "no yankee" clause for Griffey or any player. Sure you didn't misread that someplace?
79Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, Nov 10, 2010, 21:02
No.

Apparently when his Dad was playing for the Yankees, Billy Martin yelled at him and he vowed never to play for them if he became a MLB player. So he had an understanding with the Mariners to not trade him to the Bronx (later, of course, he had the clout to actually put that into his contract).
80Mith
      ID: 2210551019
      Wed, Nov 10, 2010, 21:31
I'm familiar with the Martin story, and also that his dad overall hated playing there. As I recall he wanted to DH but the Yankees had him taking cortizone shots in his knees to stay on the field. But I've never heard that Griffey or any other player worked any outright prohibition to be traded to a specific team in their contract.

I think you're mistaken about that, PD.

Here's a NYDN article from 2008 noting that Reds GM Jim Bowden wanted to trade Griffey to The Yankees in 2003 before he got hurt.
81C1-NRB
      ID: 401412422
      Wed, Nov 10, 2010, 23:18
I heard recently that Zach Greinke has a "No Yankee" clause.

I'll investigate further...
82C1-NRB
      ID: 401412422
      Wed, Nov 10, 2010, 23:24
That didn't take long:
Details of Zack Greinke contract

It's not just "No Yankee" per se, but is is "small market only."
I should've looked before I posted.
83Tree
      ID: 1410371019
      Wed, Nov 10, 2010, 23:42
Plus I don't think he has any strong ties to Texas since he was only there a couple months.

Well, he was born and raised and still lives one state away.
84Great One
      ID: 451047117
      Thu, Nov 11, 2010, 08:47
thats also cause Grienke has some type of social anxiety issue, so he probably can't handle that type of environment
85Mith
      ID: 4982142
      Thu, Nov 11, 2010, 09:10
I've heard it said of plenty of players that they would not play for the Yankees, including Griffey, but never that any team's name was actually prohibitively writtten into their contract. Its also a bit difficult to believe that a player with such an amicable reputation as Griffey would include language like that, whatever his personal feelings. A rumor like that might be easier to believe if it were about someone like Curt Schilling or another surley Yankee nemesis.

I've never heard of any contract with such a clause and it just doesn't sound likely to me, much less famously so.
86Mith
      ID: 4982142
      Thu, Nov 11, 2010, 09:47
NYC tabloids reported this week that Posada's wife posted on Facebook and Twitter that Jorge Posada would be the regular Yankee DH in 2011.

This came a day of two after Posada was quoted as saying that if the Yankees plan to move him to DH, he expects to be told so.

Yesterday, ESPN reported:
Yankees general manager Brian Cashman informed Posada of his intention to give top prospect Jesus Montero a shot to win the starting catching job, a baseball official with knowledge of the conversation told ESPNNewYork.com on Wednesday.
This is one seriously elaborate ruse if it's all in attempt to prop up Montero's trade value.

On Lee, the more I think about him the less I'd care to see him in NY.
87Mith
      ID: 4982142
      Wed, Nov 24, 2010, 10:41
Reports are that Pettitte is looking likely to return in 2011.
88Species
      ID: 3610232412
      Wed, Nov 24, 2010, 13:23
Jesus Montero's value is due to the Yankees overhyping him? REALLY? That's rich. Have you guys really examined the numbers this guy has put up, particularly for his age?

As a YOUNG 19 year old in 2009 (meaning, he'd only turned 19 the previous November), Montero DESTROYED the Florida State League, which is high-A ball to the tune of .356/.406/.583 with 8 HR in 48 games. As if that wasn't impressive enough, he was promoted to the very tough Eastern League (AA), where most top prospects distinguish themselves. Montero was facing top competition, all of whom were 2-3 years older than him. All he did was hit .317/.370/.539 with 9 HR in 44 games.

In 2010 he played all year at AAA Scranton as a 20-year old. Sure his .289/.353/.517 line with 21 HR looks pedestrian compared to 2009....but that is REALLY nitpicking for someone that young.

Review every respected, unbiased prospect site (BA, BP) or prospect hound (Keith Law, Sickels, numerous others) and all praise Montero's bat as a premium, middle-of-the-order bat. Most doubt his ability to catch, but the bat will carry him
89blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Wed, Nov 24, 2010, 15:09
Montero looks to be pretty great, but there is certainly at least SOME history of Yankee prospects not working out.
90R9
      ID: 2854239
      Wed, Nov 24, 2010, 15:27
The difference between real-life baseball and fantasy are huge when it comes to Montero.

Fantasy owners have the perfect prospect. His bat is going to be great (or at least has a great chance of it being great) and nobody cares if his D is bad. But, if his D is so bad that they make him a DH instead, losing that C eligibility would be awful.

For the Yankees, C or DH doesn't matter much, as long as his bat is there. Either his defense is good enough/improves enough, or it doesn't and they just go get a defensive C. No biggie.
91Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Nov 24, 2010, 21:44
Montero looks to be pretty great, but there is certainly at least SOME history of Yankee prospects not working out.

Certainly.......but this prevailing thought that Yankee prospects have forever been overhyped in order to inflate trade value is a bit of hyperbole. Name the last Yankee prospect(s) "overhyped" and then used in a trade

Austin Jackson to the Tigers for Granderson? Nope. Jackson has probably exceeded his hype for Detroit last year.

I'm trying to think of the last trade that didn't "work out". A-Rod for Soriano? Soriano was already an established player, and that was a salary dump anyway. Someone help me out here.

Best one I could come up with in my memory: LHP Sterling Hitchcock and 3b Russ Davis to Seattle for Tino Martinez and Jeff Nelson. Obviously a Yankee landslide.

92Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Wed, Nov 24, 2010, 22:30
Most of their hot prospects they keep. Jeter. Posada, Pettit. etc.
93Mith
      ID: 28646259
      Wed, Nov 24, 2010, 22:48
Brandon Claussen was the last overhyped player, I believe. Netted Aaron Boone iirc. Before that might have been Dionar Navarro, who I think went to AZ in the Randy Johnson trade.
94Great One
      ID: 53105119
      Thu, Nov 25, 2010, 09:11
I prefer when they just buy a player from another team and don't even give up a decent prospect at all like Abreu. Much better business.
95Mith
      ID: 4982142
      Thu, Nov 25, 2010, 09:39
That was a salary dump. And Abreu was making right about what he would have commanded on the open market.
96Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Nov 25, 2010, 11:49
I prefer when they just buy a player from another team and don't even give up a decent prospect at all like Abreu. Much better business.

That's like killing the messenger.

Yes, it is to the Yankees' strategic advantage at times to make these trades......but where is the blame and ridicule for the team that actually signed the player to the lame contract to begin with?
97Great One
      ID: 53105119
      Thu, Nov 25, 2010, 12:13
But if they bought him on the open market, wouldn't that team get high compensatory picks?
98R9
      ID: 2854239
      Thu, Nov 25, 2010, 15:29
There was that kid who went to Cincy, who also played football. Don't remember his name, but he didn't pan out either. (Wasn't Claussen.)
99Mith
      ID: 28646259
      Thu, Nov 25, 2010, 16:13
Great One
Only if the previous team offered him arbitration and the player declined. Usually when a team is eager to dump a player's salary in his walk year they don't offer arbitration out of fear that the player will accept. For example the Yankees didn't offer arbitration to Kerry Wood or Lance Berkman this year. The Yankees also notably declined to offer Abreu arbitration when he left NY, presumably a message to not let the door hit him on the way out, since the liklihood he would accept seemed pretty minimal at the time.
100Mith
      ID: 28646259
      Thu, Nov 25, 2010, 16:24
R9

Drew Hanson was the prize in th Denny Neagle tade in 2000.
101JeffG
      Dude
      ID: 01584348
      Tue, Dec 14, 2010, 12:40
Yankees sign Russell Martin to catch. Posada as discussed already in this thread will probably be primarily a DH and they'll probably still carry a backup C on the 25-man roster.

Now to float Montero or Romine for that needed plan-B addition to the rotation now that Lee is a Phillie.
102Great One
      ID: 01122913
      Tue, Dec 14, 2010, 12:49
How about Carl Pavano? he won 17 games last year I think.
103RecycledSpinalFluid
      ID: 2511311412
      Tue, Dec 14, 2010, 13:34
Didn't realize Martin was only 27 (28 in Feb). If he can revert his 2 year slide, thats a nice pick. Guess it also depends on the money involved (well, outside the Axis of Evil teams it would. Sorry, small-market fan in me couldn't resist one barb.)

Do you see Posada spot catching to lighten the catching duties for Martin, or is he headed to the glue factory as a DH?
104Mith
      ID: 371138719
      Tue, Dec 14, 2010, 14:46
I bet Girardi gives Posada 5 - 10 starts at C in effort to keep him happy and that he probably winds up back there in another 15 games due to pinch hitting and other substitutions.
105Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Sat, Dec 18, 2010, 14:21
Yankees add career-Met, Pedro Feliciano. for $8m over 2 years.
106Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Sun, Jan 09, 2011, 09:53
NYDN
"We never got off the dime, but strong impressions were that it would be something that would cost us more because we are in the division, kind of like Roy Halladay," Cashman said Saturday. "We like Matt Garza and I had a conversation early in the winter and it was clear that what it would take would be more significant than I wanted to do.


as first reported by The Journal News Saturday, Cashman insists the Yankees are keeping their first-round draft pick (31st overall), which they would have to give up if they signed a Type-A free agent such as Soriano.

"I would've given up the draft pick for Cliff Lee," Cashman said. "But I'm going to retain our No. 1 pick for ourselves. Once Cliff Lee came off the board, I called Damon (Oppenheimer, the Yanks' vice president for amateur scouting) and said, 'You're going to have your No. 1 pick, you're in the hunt for a first-round pick.'

"It's a strong draft and I'm going to leave that pick to Damon and his staff for another good pick. That pick is going to be a Yankee player."
107Mith
      ID: 371138719
      Fri, Jan 14, 2011, 23:29
That was a quick reversal. Cash handed over the Yankees 1st round pick and a respetable sum for a closer over 3 years to Raphael Soriano to be the Yankees 8th inning man. While Cashman claims that the Yankees understanding of Pettitte's positiion has not changed since they spoke early in the offseason, this deal coming just a day or two after Pettitte confirmed he would not be with the Yankees this spring should call that claim into question.

Personally I don't like the idea of handing over the #31 pick in what is supposed to be a rich draft. It's been noted that the Yankees have been burned with high-profile setup men in the past, most notably Kyle Farnsworth, LaTroy Hawkins and Steve Karsay. The exception to that rule was Tom Gordon who, like Soriano, was a well-regarded closer before coming to NY.

The idea makes enough sense, compensate for what looks like a mediocre rotation with an exceptional setup-closer combination, moving last year's setup RPs to the 6th inning and earlier. It also has the combining effect of making Joba expendable and also moving him further from high pressure situations, hopefully giving him a better chance to regain some of his dominance and increase his trade value.
108Great One
      ID: 56051423
      Sat, Jan 15, 2011, 00:06
Does this make Joba a starter again? and was a roundabout way of getting another starter?
109Mith
      ID: 371138719
      Sat, Jan 15, 2011, 00:33
I hope not and doubt it. Joba's shoulder is still considered fragile and he'd have to be eased back into the role again. I doubt anyone wants to go through that again.

There's so much pitching talent that is close to MLB ready that I think the hope is that they can patch it together with offense and a good bulpen until either one of the prospects steps up or a trade for a good SP presents itself. If they get close to midseason and nothing is working and the rotation is in shambles you might then see them decide to stretch out Joba. Hopefully it would have to come to that type of situation with all better options exhausted before they'd consider it.
110Mith
      ID: 4010542612
      Sat, Jan 15, 2011, 10:11
NYDN claims to have the DL on the discrepency
Less than a week earlier, GM Brian Cashman had said he wouldn't give up the first-round draft pick required to ink Soriano. But Hal and Hank Steinbrenner didn't agree with his game plan - according to a source familiar with the Yankees' thinking - and overruled him, giving the righthander a deal that could ultimately go to three years and pay him $35 million.


According to the source, the Steinbrenners were bothered by Cashman's blueprint. One of the big issues was that Joba Chamberlain, a prized prospect yet to reach an expected high ceiling, was going to be Rivera's primary set-up man.

111Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Sat, Jan 15, 2011, 11:09
I think Joba can be a very good, even great, setup man. His problems, IMO, stem from the Yankees insisting that he be a great SP.
112R9
      ID: 2854239
      Sat, Jan 15, 2011, 14:06
Having a deep pen is definitely worth spending the $ on imo. A team like NYY, who can spend a bit more per arm in the pen should be doing this every year. Being able to trot out Soriano-Rivera in the 8th/9th (or even 7th/8th/9th) in a 1 or 2 run ballgame all year is probably more valuable then having a better #5 SP.

I can understand wanting to keep the pick, but Soriano is a top relief arm. His career #'s are outstanding. The only hiccups in his career were injuries early on, and somehow being traded for Horacio Ramirez.
113R9
      ID: 2854239
      Sat, Jan 15, 2011, 14:09
Looking for Ramirez's first name in google, I came across this gem. So much fail in one small article.
114Mith
      ID: 4010542612
      Sat, Jan 15, 2011, 16:26
His problems, IMO, stem from the Yankees insisting that he be a great SP.

I'd argue they more likely stem from his fragile ego. He was a starter in the minors. He only became a RP when the Yankees had a desperate need to fill and there was supposedly a pretty good internal debate about whether to move him back to being a starter. At the time I felt it made sense since a good-to-great SP is easily more valuable than a good-to-great RP and everything Joba had ever said on the topic was that he wants to start in the majors and the team needed to find out if his potential stretched into the rotation.

In my opinion they got their answer, and I would agree, possibly to the detriment of his abilities as a relief pitcher. But if all it took for that to happen was 222 IP over 2 years in the role he's been training for his whole adult life and probably longer, there's clearly a greater issue than a decision to transition a talented young starting pitcher back into the rotation.
115Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Sat, Jan 15, 2011, 16:43
Perhaps. I just don't think, at this level, Chamberlain is a high-level starting pitcher (that could be ego driven, I dunno. Certainly the expectations from the front office to Yankees fans etc put certain pressures on a player as well.)

The Yankees have some really good keys in their bullpen (Boone/Chamberlain/Robertson are all very good young arms). Maybe they need to re-work Joba's contract to get him bonus money for holds.

:)
116Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Sat, Jan 15, 2011, 23:41
I don't think it was the overall stats as a starter that were the problem. He just never showed anything like the confidence and aggressiveness he had when he came up as a RP. The edge was completely gone. He got spooked every time he gave up a big hit and could never recompose himself (like AJ Burnett in 2010). He didn't attack the zone and just never seemed to be able to get big outs in tough spots. Even the body language was totally different.

I believe he could still regain his form out of the bulpen for the Yankees, in fact he may already have, as he looked like his old dominant self in September after a pretty good August. And I even think he could still be a very good SP down the road if he can stay healthy, but probably not in the Bronx.
117Great One
      ID: 2902189
      Tue, Jan 18, 2011, 16:22
Yanks are the frontrunners to land Andruw Jones?
118Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Feb 04, 2011, 10:12
With Pettitte's retirement, Yanks are kicking around lefty ideas.

119Skidazl
      ID: 3253219
      Fri, Feb 04, 2011, 14:29
As an Angels fan, please take Kazmir. We'll throw in Wood for nothing.. LOL
120Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Fri, Sep 23, 2011, 14:48
So much for being a team on the decline

And for:
THIRTEEN guys on their roster older than 30 - eight of those are 33 are older.

And also for:
Yeah, they can re-tool, as always, and become like the New York Mercenaries of old. But thats the only way they will compete next year.

Unless Martin, Colon and Garcia, for a total expenditure probably well under $10m counts as a mercenary-style retooling. They did shell out for Soriano, but he was a total non-factor. They'd have been better off keeping their 1st round draft pick. Another victory for Cashman over the judgement of his bosses.
121Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Sep 23, 2011, 14:55
As always, they have a solid core. But let's face it--they rolled the dice on Garcia & Colon this year and rolled 7's on both.

I watched Girardi's postgame conference yesterday and he was expressing a bit of dismay over how the guys have lost a bit of gas here at the end, and with Hughes hurt they really need those guys to step up.

Sabathia has been rock solid. Burnett (who they should jettison as soon as they can when the season is over) is flaky and the rest of that pitching staff have been saved by a pretty darn good relief corps.

Martin has been a great, great defensive pickup for them. Hope they keep him to help Montero out.
122Great One
      ID: 574139
      Fri, Sep 23, 2011, 15:21
Well CC is certainly running out of gas, they better leave him shut down til Game 1. He's allowed 10 hits like 6 times the last two months.
123Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 37838313
      Fri, Sep 23, 2011, 16:58
PD

Sabathia started having trouble the minute they went to a 6 man rotation. Hopefully that works itself out.

But I don't know what you mean when you call him rock solid and say Cash rolled 7s on Garcia and Colon (not to mention omit ROY candidate Ivan Nova) and then say the pitching staff was saved by the bulpen. No time to look it up but I have to imagine the Yankees rotation stats rank fairly high in the AL.
124Perm Dude
      ID: 5510572522
      Fri, Sep 23, 2011, 17:20
I'm talking specifically about Burnett & Hughes, MITH. Colon & Garcia were, essentially, waiver wire pickups who won games no one expected them to at the back of the rotation--two guys turning back the clock. And they were helped by the pen as well--Girardi couldn't (and usually didn't) count on them going deep into games.

All teams bring in pitchers like that into Spring Training--just to see what is in the tank. The Yanks plugged two into their rotation and both performed better than expected. A good thing, too. I don't recall them having many other SP prospects--Colon, in fact, got into the rotation because Hughes was ineffective very early.
125Mith
      ID: 23217270
      Fri, Sep 23, 2011, 18:53
Agreed, the Yankees were lucky with Colon and Garcia. Hughes seems very fragile. Between his mysterious "dead arm" lasting into July and his herniated disk suddenly flaring up again, I'm beginning to wonder how many healthy and productive seasons he has in him. Burnett is a headcase and a bust. At this point the best we can hope for is that he'll have enough periods where he holds it together over the next two years to at least partially offset the inevitable meltdowns.
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