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Subject: Hall of Fame Class of 2013
Posted by: Khahan
- [373143013] Wed, Jan 11, 2012, 13:44
Wow, this is probably the most interesting class the hall has ever seen. One of the greatest hitters ever, one of the greatest pitchers ever, one of the greatest catchers ever, one of the top 5 best second basemen ever, a 600 HR club member are all first timers on the ballot.
Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Mike Piazza, Craig Biggio and Sammy Sosa. Add in the mix Curt Schilling, returning players like Jeff Bagwell, Mark McGwire and Rafael Palmeiro, Edgar Martinez. If you went back to 2000 and told a sports writer all those names would be on the list together, they'd call you nuts (though in 2000, biggio wasn't exactly considered HoF or border and Palmeiro was a projected bubble as was Bagwell).
Here is the complete list of eligible players
I'd be curious to see 2 lists from people:
1. Take out steroids and who would you vote for just based on numbers and accomplishments
2. Reality with all the factors and who you think will actually make it based on BBWA voting.
My Ballot would be:
1. Bonds
2. Clemens
3. Piazza
4. Palmeiro
5. Biggio
6. Bagwell
7. Sosa
8. Raines
For me, not many hold overs.
Who do I think will actually garner enough votes to get in:
1. Jeff Bagwell
2. Craig Biggio
and I disagree with the inclusion but maybe
3. Jack Morris
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| 1 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915
Wed, Jan 11, 2012, 14:17
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Man--between them we should have an over/under for number of syringes.
Piazza maybe. And Morris.
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| 2 | Khahan
ID: 373143013
Wed, Jan 11, 2012, 15:01
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You don't think biggio gets in? The only reason I can think of is the 'first ballot bias.' But with morris and bagwells rising vote count the past year I could see them getting in.
I would hope Piazza does. He admitted to andro use very early in his career when it was not a banned substance. Outside of that incident there is no connection to him w/ PED's, but in my readings today that doesn't seem to matter. Many BBWA's seem to think he'll be left off a ton of ballots.
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| 3 | Perm Dude
ID: 3210201915
Wed, Jan 11, 2012, 15:03
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That first ballot bias is exactly why he won't get in--overwhelming first ballot guys are good, but otherwise they don't get in. I've argued elsewhere that it is a silly anachronism, but still it persists. Sometimes baseball loves its traditions so much it continues them, zombie like, just to continue them.
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| 4 | Khahan
ID: 373143013
Wed, Jan 11, 2012, 15:09
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I've argued with you on that one PD. if a guy is HoF worthy, he's HoF worthy. No need to rehash it here. But yeah, thinking about it, biggio probably won't make it this year on first ballot.
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| 5 | Razor
ID: 551031157
Wed, Jan 11, 2012, 15:20
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Piazza
Biggio
Bagwell
Raines
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| 6 | Khahan
ID: 373143013
Wed, Jan 11, 2012, 15:25
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heh, to clarify #4, I've argued on the same side as PD. argued with (as in 'in favor') not with as in engaging in an argument like we do in the poli forums.
Razor, is that your list or the list you think will make it?
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| 7 | Razor
ID: 551031157
Wed, Jan 11, 2012, 15:39
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My list.
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| 8 | Kyle
Sustainer
ID: 052753312
Wed, Jan 11, 2012, 19:29
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I would personally vote for
Bagwell
Biggio
Raines
I think the BBWA will elect
Bagwell
Raines
Schilling
I honestly can't see why (if they were pressed to actually answer) the BBWA won't put Biggio as a first ballot, but something in my gut says they won't put 2 guys from the same team in at the same time.
I also see Schilling getting in because he was so anti-steroid that the BBWA will feel like their appeasing the fans by keeping roiders out and getting the semi-deserving guy in.
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| 9 | Toral
ID: 010321615
Thu, Jan 12, 2012, 02:51
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My no-steroid ballot:
Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
Murray
Piazza
Raines
Sosa
Trammell
In the real world, subtract
Sosa
Who will make it?
No one
Morris is most likely, but number of candidates and a polarized electorate will hold him back.
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| 10 | Nerfherders
ID: 161121811
Thu, Jan 12, 2012, 15:59
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Biggio is a no-doubter. In Bill James' Historical Abstract, which is now almost 10 years old, he had Biggio as the best player of the 1990's. He's the NL's version of Alomar, but better as he also played catcher and was a better baserunner.
Bonds would have gotten in if had retired in 2002, so I have to give him that much credit without PED's
Piazza is only the greatest hitting catcher ever.
He's in.
Bagwell should have gotten in this year.
Sosa and McGuire I'm on the fence on. I lean towards yes because it is the Hall of FAME, and who was more famous than Sosa and MacGuire in 1998?
Palmeiro I just think shot himself in the foot and if he had just kept is mouth shut would not be an issue. He goes in the same category as Jose Canseco.
Clemens I kind of have to put in the same boat with Bonds. If he had retired in 2000, he'd be in anyways.
Schilling is borderline for me. Alot of his accomplishments are in the postseason, and I think that should not be a primary consideration.
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| 11 | Da Bomb
Donor
ID: 487112814
Thu, Jan 12, 2012, 18:27
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I wonder if it will even matter that Bonds or Clemens were good enough to get into the Hall without using. Maybe the fact that they did it at all is enough of a deterrent for voters to black list them forever.
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| 12 | Kyle
Sustainer
ID: 052753312
Thu, Jan 12, 2012, 22:40
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RE 10: Sosa and MacGuire would qualify for their fame, but it really isn't about how "famous" they were or how memorable they were.
"Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played"
This is why I don't believe Sosa, MacGuire, Bonds or Clemens will ever be elected.
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| 13 | blue hen
Dude
ID: 710321114
Fri, Jan 13, 2012, 11:40
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I'm going to try to put these guys in order:
1. Bonds
2. Clemens
3. Piazza
4. Biggio
5. Raines
6. Sosa
7. Schilling
8. Bagwell
9. McGwire
10. Palmeiro
11. Edgar
12. Trammell
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| 14 | Toral
ID: 010321615
Wed, Jan 18, 2012, 09:35
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Chris Jaffe thinks that Biggio will barely make it and be the only one elected next year.
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| 15 | Myboyjack
ID: 36452617
Fri, Jan 27, 2012, 21:25
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I'd vote for:
Bonds
Clemens
Biggio
Piazza
Bagwell
McGwire
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