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0 Subject: 2017 hall of fame ballot

Posted by: Khahan
- [367431722] Mon, Jan 02, 2017, 22:13

Voting is going on and winners will be announced in a few short weeks. We've got 34 players eligible. Simply put, who is on your ballot?

Mine, in no particular order:

1. jeff bagwell
2. tim raines
3. roger clemens
4. barry bonds
5. jeff kent
6. ivan rodriguez
7. Vladimir Guerrero
8. Sammy Sosa
9. Trevor Hoffman

Manny was one of my favorite players as a Boston fan, but the sheer number of times he got busted for cheating with roids. Though his stats certainly merit induction. Sosa is also borderline considering the roids and the corked bat incident but he makes it - - I guess that is my line in the sand, somewhere between Sosa's level and Manny's level of cheating.
1loki
      ID: 38037320
      Tue, Jan 03, 2017, 21:38
Hall of Fame 2017
I have been dissatisfied with many of the players elected to the HOF for quite some time. Probably because I am older, but I have always thought that the HOF should be reserved for the true greats of the game.
When I think of the HOF, I think of a lineup such as:
1B. Lou Gehrig
2b Rogers Hornsby
3B Mike Schmidt
SS Honus Wagner
Of Babe Ruth, Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle
DH Ted Williams
C Johnny Bench
P Sandy Koufax, Christie Mathewson
RP Mariano Rivera
Current inductees need not and cannot be of the level of these all-time great players, but so many players elected over the past 25 years are merely “near-greats.”
I also do not think that players should be excluded because they were caught using steroids. I emphasize the word “caught” because there were many other players who used steroids and other PHDs during this era, and only an unfortunate minority was actually proven to have done so. During this time frame and for many prior years, there were a significant number of players who may have not taken steroids or HGH, but who did utilize the greenies which were widely available to enhance their performance.
Therefore based on the above, my choices for the BBHOF Class of 2017 are:
Sammy Sosa
Barry Bonds
Trevor Hoffman
Manny Ramirez


2Khahan
      ID: 367431722
      Sat, Jan 07, 2017, 13:50
Pudge gets Bench's vote, for whatever that is worth (nothing in reality).

Loki - you wouldn't vote for Clemens?
3Tree
      ID: 48192723
      Sat, Jan 07, 2017, 16:32
Really weird to mention Bench as the best of all time, then not give a HoF nod to Pudge.

He's one of the top 3 or 4 at his position to ever at the game, and while not quite as good as Bench offensively, he's far and away superior defensively.
4loki
      ID: 15046816
      Sun, Jan 08, 2017, 17:46
I like my HOF lineup, but there are players who could be easily argued for each position.
Clemens does belong on my list.
5filthy
      ID: 212371616
      Fri, Jan 13, 2017, 07:14
Good to see this talk spark back up again. Sort of. I'll chime in.

I love to read about legendary Hall of Fame players, and that list above is about as good as it gets. But as a fan that fell in love with the game around 1990, my Hall of Fame is a little different.

Of all the legends on that list, I can't say I saw any of them play. To only let in new players of similar caliber stats, would only allow for one or two new inductees every few years, which would not allow for the level of hype that they are able to build currently.

My 10, as a fan that had coverage of Expos games in french for about 5 years, and coverage of Blue Jays games for as long as I recall. Plus the odd coverage of Mariners, Braves, Cubs, Dodgers, Mets on various channels, plus a growing obsession that started with Smallworld... also I'd probably be the type of jerk that wants to pick 12 players and leaves off the top 2 guys.

1- Ivan Rodriguez, winner everywhere and put up incredible stats in all areas as far as memory serves. No doubter. Slippery slope since he played in Texas with a lot of questionable characters....

2- Vlad Guerrero, my deep down Expos love makes this a no brainer, and the guy was a highlight reel for a long time.

3- Tim Raines, one of the first players I can remember liking, looking at the stats, there is a case, but I really only saw the end of his career to be honest.

4- Fred McGriff, definitely my first favourite player. Didn't last long but he was a key piece to making my early years as a fan some good years. Could've kept playing to hit some milestones and gotten more votes, but he is a proud man. Perfect role model type, deserves more credit for what he did in the era he did it.

5- Larry Walker, another one of my early favourites, always loved the guy as a Canadian MVP, and just dynamite force in the lineup. Loses credit for Coors effect, but he hit well as an Expo and didn't lose a beat as an injury prone vet at the end as a Cardinal. Still dominant then. Coors effect isn't quite the same without Walker by the way. I'm biased, but I'm sure Vinny Castilla and Andres Galarraga got a double boost from Coors and having Walker in the lineup around them.

6- Edgar Martinez, as professional as a hitter as it gets in that era. Right behind Tony Gwynn in my mind. Loses credit for DH but he was absolutely dominant, what does it matter. The Mariners got extra coverage in my area when they went on a run in 1995 and Griffey, Johnson and Edgar are all standouts to me, forever. Edgar helped Griffey get some better pitches for a long time, and was a key piece in a few pretty killer lineups along the way.

7- Jeff Bagwell, I didn't particularly like him or get much Astros coverage, but the stats are hard to ignore and the reputation and coverage I did get were quite impressive.

Already starting to get into questionable territory for me, but again, I'd be the type that wants to fill my ballot. I can't help myself, it's sort of an OCD thing. The asterisk crew is starting to look tempting here. I dunno about closers but they could fill the ballot if I want to continue ignoring the true Hall of Fame numbers out there. I already have some doubts concerning current members of the Hall so why not.

8- Barry Bonds, so good. Made Jeff Kent great in my mind. Should get credit for singlehandedly taking over the sport for a few years. I fully believe his contention that he was just trying to level the playing field. Got a bit carried away to say the least. Definitely proved his point. Might have backfired a bit. I will always remember the excitement around cutting to his every at bat as he chased records. Outshined McGwire and it's unfair to see McGwire get shunned but Bonds was better in every way, so it's not totally off base.

9- Roger Clemens, quite unlikeable, even when he was a Blue Jay, winning Cy Youngs and rubbing it in the Red Sox face, he didn't win me over enough to make this an easy pick. Definitely elite and memorable. Like Bonds. Pretty sure he proved the point that he wasn't done after Boston, but he kinda went overboard. All the comebacks, and getting better each time was quite ridiculous, but a sign of the times really. The stats can't be ignored and among the asterisk crowd, he still stood out, so that's worth a little in my mind I guess.

10- Trevor Hoffman, even to discredit the value of closers, it's hard to ignore Hoffman. Memorable for a long stretch.


Using more of Loki's logic, I could cut down to 5, maybe even 1. Pudge is a slam dunk to me. I'd have a hard time letting go of Walker, McGriff, Edgar & Vlad as well. 4 of my favourite players out of about 25 years worth. Not legendary by all time standards, but standouts based on coverage growing up in the Canadian Northwest.
6Khahan
      ID: 367431722
      Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 18:35
3 get in.

Great to see Tim Raines finally make it. I've been offering up support for him on these boards since 2003.

Congratz to Pudge, Bagwell and Raines. And I'm sure next year we'll see Vlad and Hoffman get in.
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