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0 Subject: Shohei Otani

Posted by: Nerfherders
- [33543714] Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 15:58

It's official: Shohei Otani is signing with Angels.

Now that that part is out of the way, the bigger question is what do the Angels do with him? The bigger bigger question is what do fantasy baseball systems do with him? So far, I've seen these options:

1. He is eligible as pitcher and Util, but must be in one spot or the other for the lineup period. This is really on applicable to weekly leagues.

2. He is eligible only at pitcher.

3. He is eligible at pitcher and DH - the only player to have dual eligibility.

4. There are two versions of Otani - a hitter an a pitcher, and in redraft leagues they are drafted separately.

My take: 1 is okay, but kind of boring. You'd probably only use him as a pitcher in that case. 2 is really boring. 3 might not be feasible for some systems to handle, and would be deemed potentially unfair for other good hitting pitchers.

4 Is my favorite option. For redraft leagues two different teams might own the two different versions of Otani. For keeper leagues, I'd think if you draft Otani, you get both versions in your lineup. What this means for transactions down the road is up for debate. Could you trade one version without the other in a keeper league? Would the two versions always have to be together, even if one version ends up being not-so-good?

This is definitely new territory for the fantasy baseball world. What are your thoughts?
1youngroman
      ID: 19238238
      Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 18:25
my bet is #2 because they are not prepared or they believe it would be too complicated to implement. This is not only a backend server/database issue, this is also something that needs to be implemented at various places in the user interface. Since most platforms have mobile applications this most likely means to change the iOS app + Android app + web app. this sounds like a few months of work. If they have not already started their implementation it is most likely too late.

as an Ohtani owner in G20 I haven't thought about how I'd like to utilize him, but I guess the best solution would be #3 where I can have him twice in my lineup with the cost of only 1 roster spot.
2Slizz
      ID: 7955412
      Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 20:58
I'm good with #3. You took the risk...you deserve the reward.

On days he pitches he can't be dh...definite advantage in owning him, assuming he can hit.
3RJ
      ID: 448232023
      Sat, Dec 09, 2017, 21:42
3.
4Bean
      ID: 304422310
      Sat, Dec 09, 2017, 21:49
I think all our leagues will have to weigh their options based on what is possible on the different platforms (ESPN, Yahoo etc). Ideally, he will be usable at both his batting and pitching positions and without taking more than one roster slot.

Will be interesting to see how the Angels use him to bat when he pitches.
5loki
      ID: 15046816
      Wed, Dec 13, 2017, 16:41
UCL sprain.
Ohtani injury
6JeffG
      ID: 511362722
      Fri, Dec 15, 2017, 19:13
Yahoo announces there will be two versions of Otani, a hitter and a pitcher

I’d prefer one and you have to decide day to day if you want to slit him as a hitter or a pitcher. Understand that causes challenges for weekly lineup leagues

Would not be a fan of seeing a player generate pitching stats from a hitting slot and fantasy has never added NL batting stats from pitchers

Of course with this precedent, maybe yahoo will also offer Madison Bungarner the hitter too.



7youngroman
      ID: 19238238
      Sat, Dec 16, 2017, 04:14
thank god G20 is not on Yahoo.

that is a lame decision by them, but I guess they had to make it because they did not prepare early enough. I also guess their codebase sucks and they are understaffed. not something you would expect from the market leader in fantasy sports.

I fear that others will follow suit. it seems CBS is trying to give Ohtani dual eligibility and you can either play him at P or DH, but if they can't implement that change in time they will go the Yahoo route. I have not seen any indications on what ESPN plans to do.

I still want to see a pitcher in 2 slots (P and DH) at the same time while taking only 1 roster slot. Bumgarner owners would appreciate that too when the matchup is right.
8Bean
      ID: 304422310
      Sat, Dec 16, 2017, 09:43
Can't recall which, but an analyst on ESPN mused:

"Wouldn't it be fun if you traded Otani the hitter, for Otani the pitcher?"
9Nerfherders
      ID: 33543714
      Mon, Dec 18, 2017, 19:53
I think it's probably the best solution at this point. Of course, it probably has to stay that way because of dynasty leagues. It also hedges on the possibility that one or the other tools isn't MLB quality. I suspect he will be a good pitcher and an average hitter, but we just don't know yet.
10Meatwads
      ID: 5863742
      Tue, Dec 19, 2017, 12:32
My personal opinion is he will be an ace on the mound and replacement level as a hitter.

I absolutely hate the idea of having two versions of one player. It's completely out of whack with everyone else in the history of fantasy.

If I were running one of these sites, he would be eligible as a pitcher only, because that's ultimately what I think his future holds. I simply don't believe he'll be a major league caliber hitter, and I suspect most of the GM's will eventually come to that conclusion.

All that being said, I think he will start next season on ESPN as P/DH, and may eventually gain OF eligibility.
11Bean
      ID: 304422310
      Tue, Dec 19, 2017, 12:59
So, if they make two versions of Otani, and the owner keeps them both using two roster spots, does that count as two keepers?
12Bean
      ID: 304422310
      Tue, Dec 19, 2017, 13:04
If Otani exceeds the prospect threshold in pitching, but not in hitting (a possible outcome). Can the owner promote just the pitcher?
13Nerfherders
      ID: 33543714
      Tue, Dec 19, 2017, 13:53
So many questions! I'm still thinking about what I might do in the keeper league I commish in Yahoo. My initial thought, at least for this year, is to consider them one player for keeper purposes, meaning they must be called up together, kept together, etc.
14blue hen
      ID: 5254718
      Tue, Dec 19, 2017, 15:55
Does that impact roster limits?

I'd say passing either threshold eliminates prospect-ness. Best case? 280 AB and 107 IP.
15Species
      SuperDude
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, Dec 19, 2017, 17:49
In G20's case, my interpretation of the wording seems clear that the passing of EITHER threshold would remove him from prospect consideration.

I hate the idea of two separate "players" taking up two different roster spots. What's the fun in THAT?
16Bean
      ID: 304422310
      Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 10:09
Well, initially, I think we should allow one extra keeper (or prospect keeper, if not promoted). Can't allow an extra roster spot though, so the owner is out of luck there. If the owner chooses to not roster both versions simultaneously he should forever lose rights to the one that he doesn't roster.

After he has been promoted, all special treatment disappears, he will be two players.
Otani the pitcher and Otani the hitter should be treated as two separate players for the remainder of his career. Any other treatment would result in too much commish involvement.
17blue hen
      ID: 5254718
      Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 12:11
Still holding out hope that our particular site has one Otani and you choose your slot (so no hitting stats on days he pitches). That still sucks, but it's the fairest answer I can come up with.
18barilko6
      ID: 421117217
      Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 08:17
Yahoo has stated that Private Leagues can ensure that teams can have both versions of Ohtani, based on league preferences. I think that makes sense, although then he costs 2 roster spots.
19Tree
      ID: 77532019
      Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 12:59
so, who gets drafted higher? P Otani, or DH Otani?
20blue hen
      ID: 5254718
      Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 14:39
Obviously depends on your league settings, but from the sound of things, it's P Ohtani, by a lot.
21Nerfherders
      ID: 33543714
      Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 18:57
Yeah, I read one article that said that P Ohtani might be drafted in about the same range as Yu Darvish, mostly because of his hype. As for the hitter, based on the projections I've seen he's probably going to go about 75 spots before I'd ever consider taking him. I'm staying far away from both in redraft leagues.
22Khahan
      ID: 2911322610
      Tue, Dec 26, 2017, 11:32
I like Bean's proposal in post 16 for handling Otahni this season. Seems the most fair way to handle a unique situation.
23Meatwads
      ID: 5863742
      Fri, Jan 05, 2018, 05:31
https://sports.yahoo.com/news/shohei-ohtanis-status-yahoo-fantasy-baseball-012323575.html
24Nerfherders
      ID: 33543714
      Tue, Feb 06, 2018, 18:02
Have we heard anything about how other sites are going to handle Ohtani? What about Draftime?

Depending on ESPN's decision, it might be that all RIBC leagues need to be on the same site.
25Nerfherders
      ID: 33543714
      Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 11:38
I contacted Fred at Draftime. He said he added Ohtani P, Ohtani P/OF, and Ohtani OF to cover all the possibilities for leagues.
26Species
      SuperDude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Feb 14, 2018, 10:23
ESPN announced this morning:

"So here's your answer to the winter's most pressing question: In ESPN leagues, Ohtani will serve as one player -- just as he will be for his Angels -- with the ability to be started as either a hitter or pitcher.

Mind that key word, "or," as in either hitter or pitcher, but not both. Ohtani will begin the 2018 season with dual eligibility, as a designated hitter on the hitting side and starting pitcher on the pitching side, and in each individual scoring period in your league, you will need to make a decision as to on which side to use him.

This means that in leagues with daily transactions, as is the ESPN standard, on any given day Ohtani can serve as either your starting pitcher or your designated hitter/utility. He'll accrue statistics only for the role in which you choose, meaning that on days where you have him activated as a starting pitcher, he'll receive credit only for his pitching statistics, and on days where you have him activated as a DH/utility, he'll receive credit only for his hitting statistics."
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