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0 Subject: Gurupie 20 - 2018 Regular Season Discussion

Posted by: Species
- SuperDude [07724916] Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 12:11

Constitution
Prospects - 300AB 110_IP/40_GP to remain a prospect.

(Draft Rounds 1-3, '04; 4-5, '05; 6-8, '06; 9-11, '07; 12-14, '08; 15-17, '09; 18-20, '10; 21-23, '11; 24-26, '12; 27-29 '13; 30-32 '14; 33-35 '15; 36-38 '16; 39-41 '17; 42-44 '18)
MGR: #, Name,Pos,Team,(# Call-ups)
Bean: 34.09 Nick Gordon, SS, MIN; 40.07 Brent Honeywell, SP, TB; 42.06 Forest Whitley, SP, HOU
bmd: 39.03 Vladimir Guerrero Jr, 3b, TOR; 42.01 Fernando Tatis Jr, SS, SD; 42.08 MacKenzie Gore, SP, SD; 43.04 Leody Taveras, OF, Rangers; 43.06 Jack Flaherty, SP, STL; 43.14 Colin Moran, 3b, PIT
Blue Hen: 43.15 Yusei Kikuchi, SP, Seibu Lions NPB; 44.03 Yordan Alvarez, 1B, HOU; 44.04 Derek Fisher, OF, HOU
Darkside: 42.11 Miguel Andujar, 3B, NYY; 43.08 Austin Hays, OF, Bal; 44.01 Alec Hansen, SP, Det
Great One: 36.01 Brendan Rodgers, SS, COL; R40.04 Kyle Lewis, OF, SEA
Guru: 39.18 Francisco Mejia, C, CLE; 40.11 Jake Bauers, OF, TB; 42.15 A.J. Minter, Atl, RP
Fosten: 31.08 Austin Meadows, OF, PIT; 43.13 Jeimer Candelario, 3B, DET
Judy: 39.01 Mickey Moniak, OF, PHI; 40.02 Alex Verdugo, OF, LAD; 42.04 Sixto Sanchez, SP, PHI
Khahan: 42.16 Michael Chavis, 3b, BOS; 43.12 Christian Arroyo 3rd/SS TB
Meatwads: 40.06 Juan Soto, OF, WAS; 42.07 Taylor Trammell, OF, CIN; 42.05 Jhailyn Ortiz, OF, PHI
mjd: 39.02 Kevin Maitan, SS, ATL; 42.03 Royce Lewis, SS, MIN; 42.10 Austin Riley, 3b, ATL; 43.01 Michael Soroka, P, ATL
Nerfherders: Kolby Allard, SP, ATL; 42.12 Luis Gohara, SP, ATL; 43.09 Brendan McKay, SP/1B TB
Slizz: 42.14 Jo Adell, OF, LAA; 43.11 Jesus Sanchez, OF, TB; 44.02 Gabriel Arias, SS, SD
Species: 36.17 Victor Robles, OF, WAS; 39.04 Nick Senzel, 3b, CIN; 42.17 Estevan Florial, OF, NYY; 42.19 Keston Hiura, 2B, MIL
Thumper: 39.10 Kyle Tucker, OF, HOU; 42.02 Bo Bichette, 2b/SS, TOR; 42.09 Triston McKenzie, SP, CLE; 42.20 Carter Kieboom, SS, WSH; 43.03 Mitch Keller, SP, PIT
Tree: 39.08 Michael Kopech, SP, CWS; 42.05 Willie Calhoun, OF, TEX; 43.02 Luis Urias, IF, SD
ttucowboy: 39.12 Yadier Alvarez, SP, LAD
Tosh: 37.12 Anthony Alford, OF, TOR; 43.07 Yoshihisa Hirano, RP, ARIZ
wg: Willy Adames, SS, TB; 42.18 Hunter Greene, SP, CIN
youngroman: 39.15 Luis Robert Moiran, OF, Cuba; 42.13 Michael Baez, SP, SD; 43.10 Kyle Wright, SP, ATL

These managers have had their 2019 Supplemental Draft selections altered via trade:
3-19-17 Thumper receives WG's 1st (Desmond + Harvey / B. Rodgers)
3-25-17 Meatwads receives WG's 7th for his 11th (2017 pick swap)
3-30-17 bmd receives Species' 7th and 9th for his 10th and 11th (2017 pick swaps)
5-21-17 Thumper receives WG's 8th for his 14th (Triggs, Wheeler / Altherr)
2-08-18 Species receives Meatwads' 4th for his 12th (Gordon/Cruz/E5)
2-09-18 GO receives slizz' 4th for his last pick (Acuna/Rodgers/Moncada/Quintana/Hill/picks)
2-09-18 GO receives Thumpers 3rd for his second to last pick (Acuna/Rodgers/Moncada/Quintana/Hill/picks)
3-07-18 Thumper receives Species' 5th for his 9th (Godley)
3-08-18 slizz receives bmd's 3rd for his 14th (W. Davis)
3-15-18 Great One receives Meatwads' 2nd and 5th for his 7th and last (2018 Supplemental)
3-16-18 Great One receives Fosten's 4th for his 10th (Matz)
3-16-18 mjd gets WG's 4th for his 14th (Winker, 2018 picks)
3-20-18 Fosten gets WG's 12th for his 14th (2018 pick)

The following managers have had their 2019 Prospect Draft selections altered via trade:

8-17-17 Thumper receives Fosten's 1st and 2nd round picks (Meadows)

These managers have had their 2020 Supplemental Draft selections altered via trade:

3-15-18 Thumper receives GO's 2nd and 5th for his 7th and 14th (Britton / Eaton + Calhoun)

Previous Champions
2003 (tie) Ref and StL Cards
2004 Ref
2005 Ref
2006 Beastiemiked
2007 Twarpy
2008 Ref
2009 Peter N
2010 Species
2011 (tie) Species and blue hen
2012 Toral
2013 Wazaaap Guy
2014 blue hen
2015 blue hen
2016 Species
2017 blue hen

Commissioner:
"Species" gmrobinson1@yahoo.com - "Tosh" lodnar@gmail.com - "Guru" (Treasurer) davehall@rotoguru2.com

Positions
C - 1 1B - 1 2B - 1 3B - 1 SS - 1 OF - 3 DH - 1 P - 6
Active - 15; Bench - 8; Total - 23; Must have active players on roster at each position

Returning Managers
As commissioners, we reserve the right NOT to extend an invitation to (or remove) any manager for any reason. Primary reason for being excluded would be abusive behavior, purposeful rules violations (ie colluding on a trade), inactivity (ie leaving injured/OUT players in as starters or not actively trying to improve your team), not participating in league business or repeated delays/unresponsive, or failure to pay your share of league fees. If an owner is removed or NOT invited back, a new owner will be recruited to take over the vacated team in its exact state. All monies will be forfeited.

Trade Policy
If there are 7 votes against the trade it will be sent to the commishs to be vetoed. There will be a min. of one full day to vote before the trade will be approved if the max objections are not reached. Everyone will be emailed by ESPN automatically as soon as the trade is accepted so they may review it. Make sure your email notifications are set up! Please check the site daily.

Trades involving draft picks/prospects will be listed in the trade and can also be posted on our leagues bulletin board and/or our thread at rotoguru.com. Note that off-season and pre-season (before draft is complete) trades will still be approved by the commishs.

Trades for draft picks - be they Supplemental or Prospect picks - may only be consummated within two drafts from the date of the trade. Example: in March 2015 before the Supplemental Draft, one can only trade either 2015 or 2016 picks. In June 2015, one could trade either 2016 or 2017 picks, etc.

Trade deadline - the trade deadline is the last day in August available in the ESPN website.

Minimums for GP and IP:

A team must accumulate a minimum of 1375 GP by hitters over the course of a season. For each 15 games of shortfall, a team is assigned one demerit. Demerits will be integer values only. Thus, a team with 1-15 games of shortfall will receive one demerit, 16-30 will receive 2 demerits, etc.

A team must accumulate a minimum of 1200 IP over the course of a season. For every shortfall of 15 IP, a team is assigned one demerit. Demerits will be integer values only. Thus, a team with 1-15 IP of shortfall will receive one demerit, 16-30 will receive 2 demerits, etc.

GP and IP demerits will be combined for each team. However, the first two demerits will be forgiven.

If a team finishes ďin the moneyĒ for prize pool purposes (ranked 1-6), then demerits will be ignored.

For lottery teams, the following penalties will be applied to every pick in the next yearís supplement draft:

If a team accumulates more than 10 demerits, then it will be removed from the lottery and assigned the 14th pick in all rounds (i.e., behind all lottery teams, but ahead of any prize pool teams.)

For teams with less than 10 demerits, that team is pushed forward one place in the supplemental draft rankings for each demerit. For example, if a team finishes in last place (20th) and has 5 demerits, then that team will be treated in the draft rankings as though it finished in 15th place (and the teams actually finishing in places 16-20 will each move down one place.)

If more than one lottery team has a demerit, then the lottery rankings will be successively applied starting with the worst finisher and then moving up to the next worst finisher, etc.

Keepers
There will be 9 players available to be kept heading into the season. You will have a deadline to post your keepers. You may change your keepers up until the deadline.

Players drafted in the Rule 4 draft the previous June are not eligible to be kept as keepers. This rule applies even if that player has played in the major leagues. All Rule 4 draftees must go through at least one Prospect Draft prior to being eligible as keepers.

2017 Prize Pool
There are 19 of 20 people in the prize pool @ $15 each. That means there is $285 to distribute. Teams are required to always be in it or out of it once they committed to it in 2005. These will be the payouts: 1st $110; 2nd 65; 3rd 45; 4th 30; 5th 20; 6th 15. If a non-participant places 1st-6th, his money will be reallocated so there is always a 100% payout. 1st-5th place will be moved up a spot in the prize money and the 6th place $15 will go to the treasury to help defray dues costs to all. Dues are used to pay for the league champion trophy and draft.

Supplemental and Prospect Draft Lotteries:
The lotteries for both the Supplemental and Prospect Drafts will be conducted within 30 days of the end of the previous season.

Timing of the Keeper Deadline, Prospect Draft and Supplemental Draft
Each March, as proposed by a Commissioner, the league hold the following events, in this order:

1) Keeper Deadline: all teams must designate their keepers. They may designate up to 9.
NOTE: At this time, once the Keeper Deadline has passed, managers may also call up prospects to their active roster. In this scenario, those prospects are separate from their 9 keepers.
ADDITIONALLY: Once the keeper deadline has passed, managers may exceed 9 or more players by trade.
2) Prospect Keeper Deadline: Managers designate their Prospect Keepers. They may designate up to 3.
3) Prospect draft picks are assigned and the Prospect Draft is commenced per our rules below.
4) The Supplemental Draft is completed.

Supplemental Draft, FA Pickups and Waivers
The Draft will be held prior to every season after Keepers are announced. A "NBA style" lottery will determine the top three selections. The lottery for the following season will be completed within 30 days of the end of regular season. Picks 4 - 20 and all picks in subsequent rounds will be in inverse order of previous years finish and will not snake.

Players must be available in the ESPN player pool to be drafted or added during the season via FA or WW. No amateur player may be drafted or picked up via FA or WW if the player in question still has amateur status or is a prospect. Also, if a player is drafted in the June MLB draft, while he may be freely picked up and used on a roster, please note that per our keeper rules they may not be kept the following season. All Rule 4 draftees must go through one Prospect Draft before they become keeper eligible.

There is a 3 hour per draft pick time limit and a cumulative time limit of 12 hours. (Subject to change). You may not exceed 23 players. You may not drop a player (or add a non-drafted player if you are short) until waivers have been turned on. You may trade for extra picks and you may trade your excess picks as long as it is done before the preceeding pick has been made. If you make a duplicate pick, the draft will continue and you may correct that pick at any time. Once you have been skipped, you will continue to be skipped until you are caught up. If a clock runs out, the next person on the clock will be charged for any time before his pick. If you are skipped due to a pick or c clock, you may still post your selection at any time.

Waivers will begin the season in the same order as the supplemental draft. Lottery picks and traded draft picks will not be considered when determining the waiver order.

Prospect Rules:
The underlined key deadlines and procedures are completed in a linear fashion, one after the other.

Keeper Deadline:
At a time announced by the Commissioner, all managers must have no more than 3 keepers on their prospect list. This is the only point in time where teams must have 3 or fewer prospects.

Managers will announce what prospects they intend to keep on the prospect list, which prospects they are releasing, and (if applicable) which prospects they are calling up and releasing (see below).

All hitters must have less than 300 ABs and pitchers less than 110 IP or 40 GP to remain a prospect. Otherwise, they must be moved to your active roster or released. Managers must monitor their own prospects. If they are later to have found to be over the max. at that deadline, the player will be immediately removed as a prospect and put on waivers.

Owning another team's prospect pick has no bearing on the above.

Assignment of Prospect Picks:
After declaration of kept, released or called up prospects, Managers are assigned new prospect picks dependent upon how many prospects they kept - with the total sum of kept prospects and new picks of your own limited to a total of 3. Specifically:

- If you keep 3 prospects, you receive no new picks
- If you keep 2 prospects, you receive your 1st round prospect pick
- If you keep 1 prospect, you receive your 1st and 2nd round prospect picks
- If you keep no prospects, you receive your 1st, 2nd and 3rd round prospect picks

If an owner has traded away one of their prospect picks, they must reduce their kept prospects below three in order to comply with the terms of their trade. See "if you have traded away a pick", below.

Owning another team's prospect pick has no bearing on the above.

End of Keeper Deadline Activity:
Upon the completion of the keeper deadline and the assignment of picks, managers may then exceed three prospects by trade.

Processing of Traded Prospect Picks:
After the assignment of picks, the league will officially process all traded picks:
If you have traded away a pick: As noted above, any team that has traded away a pick must comply with the terms of their trade. This means that the number of prospects you are allowed to keep is reduced by the number of prospect picks you have traded away. As with any trade, if an owner trades away a pick in a round that they do not own, the receiving party receives a pick of a higher round to satisfy their trade.
If you have traded for a pick: Acquired picks are only used as picks in the Prospect Draft. The owning of another team's pick in no way alters the number of prospect keepers you may have, nor does it effect the assignment of your own prospect picks.

Prospect Draft:
The Prospect Draft will be held during the preseason after keepers are finalized (but before the Supplemental Draft). Drafts will be in inverse order of the final standings of the previous year and will not snake. A "NBA style" lottery will determine the top three selections. The lottery for the following season will be completed within 30 days of the end of regular season. Picks 4 - 20 and all picks in subsequent rounds will be in inverse order and will not snake. Players will be selected on our thread at rotoguru.com if possible. If that site is down, our draft will continue on the bulletin board of our page if we have knowledge of all picks selected previously. Ties will be broken by a dice roll. There will be up to 3 rounds.

A draft-eligible prospect is defined as a hitter that has less than 150 Major League at bats or a pitcher with less than both 55 Major League innings pitched and 20 Major League games pitched. Further, to be eligible, the player must be a professional baseball player, defined as one of the following:

- Under contract with a MLB teams system. This does not require them to have been assigned to a minor league team at the time of the draft.
- A professional player playing in/having played in Japans Nippon Professional Baseball (NPB) league.
- A professional player playing in/having played in Koreas Korean Baseball Organization (KBO) league.
- A professional player playing in/having played in Cuba's top professional league, the Serie Nacional.

Amateur players in High School, College or otherwise subject to the Rule 4 draft are not eligible.

There will be a 3 hour per pick clock and a 4 hour cumulative clock to draft. If you are skipped, you may make your selection at any time. Time will not accrue from midnight to 8 am ET, though anyone may select during that time if their pick is up. Once the draft concludes, the only way to add a prospect is via trade or future drafts. After the draft, you may bring this player on your active roster at any time (as long as hes in the ESPN database) by dropping a player.

Prospect callup rules: Managers may call-up and then send down their prospect up to two times without losing their rights as a prospect as long as that player has not hit the maximum ABs/IP/GP threshold. Once a commish allows the call-up, he will add the number of times that player has been called-up next to his name in the Prospect List below. At the end of the season, all prospects on the roster will be considered optioned so they wont have to be counted as a keeper so long as they have not hit their threshold. Before a commish will option or send-down a prospect, he will look at the stats for that player including games played that day if the lineup freeze has passed. If a prospect is renounced or hits his threshold while on your roster (called up), his name will be removed from your prospect list.

Alphabetical list of Prospects:

Willy Adames
Jo Adell
Anthony Alford
Kolby Allard
Yadier Alvarez
Yordan Alvarez
Miguel Andujar
Gabriel Arias
Christian Arroyo
Michael Baez
Jake Bauers
Bo Bichette
Willie Calhoun
Jeimer Candelario
Michael Chavis
Derek Fisher
Jack Flaherty
Estevan Florial
Luiz Gohara
Nick Gordon
MacKenzie Gore
Hunter Greene
Vladimir Guerrero JR
Alec Hansen
Austin Hays
Yoshihisa Hirano
Keston Hiura
Brent Honeywell
Mitch Keller
Carter Kieboom
Yusei Kikuchi
Michael Kopech
Kyle Lewis
Royce Lewis
Kevin Maitan
Brendan McKay
Triston McKenzie
Austin Meadows
Francisco Mejia
AJ Minter
Mickey Moniak
Colin Moran
Jhailyn Ortiz
Austin Riley
Luis Robert
Victor Robles
Brendan Rodgers
Sixto Sanchez
Jesus Sanchez
Nick Senzel
Michael Soroka
Juan Soto
Fernando Tatis
Leody Tavares
Taylor Trammell
Kyle Tucker
Luis Urias
Alex Verdugo
Forest Whitley
Kyle Wright
Only the 50 most recent replies are currently shown. Click on this text to display hidden posts as well.
[Lengthy or complex threads may require a slight delay before updating.]
452beastiemiked
      ID: 35282121
      Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 21:41
Tree, everyone has tough roster decisions to be made. Iíve lost out on some really good keepers in order to maintain minimums. We are all on a level playing field and the rules arenít new. The minimums arenít that hard to meet. This year was a little tougher since so many teams were in it at the end, however, you knew you are behind and still chose not to pick up SPís. We can only keep 9 guys so I donít buy the excuse that you had no one to drop.

It sounds like you missed the ip minimums out of spite. Species had many announcements throughout the season about the minimums. You even acknowledged them back in mid August, which is plenty of time to add a few SPs to hit them.

The minimums prevent tanking or loading up on every young guy and phoning in the season. Thatís what would happen without the minimums. It makes teams make roster moves when they are in 15th place and have nothing to play for. They arenít perfect, but the majority of the teams in this league voted for them(does that make us asinine?). Maybe the rule would get shot down if we had another vote. If thereís strong support for changing them Species will add it to the ballot.


453beastiemiked
      ID: 35282121
      Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 21:47
- Reduce IP max to 1350. - I like
- Reduce GP max to 165 per position - Yes!!!
- 9 DL slots per team, only players kept in previous offseason are eligible - need to think about it more
- Abolish catcher slot - lol
- Add a 4th OF slot - yes
- Add 3 SP slots (to 9 total) - yes
- Add a 24th roster spot - yes but only if we added a 4th of
- Add two prospect slots - big nope
- Make waivers an additional day - Iím for the opposite, the shorter the better
- Remove demerit system - no
- Champion only gets 8 keepers - lol

My two adds
-20th place pays $10 toward draftime fee
-19th place pays $5 toward draftime fee
454Khahan
      ID: 467501510
      Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 09:14
- Reduce IP max to 1350. - Yes
- Reduce GP max to 165 per position
- 9 DL slots per team, only players kept in previous offseason are eligible - No, though adding a single or 2 dl slots for general use is good
- Abolish catcher slot - No
- Add a 4th OF slot - yes
- Add 3 SP slots (to 9 total) - Would just prefer another P slot or two, but will Votes yes here
- Add a 24th roster spot - depends on OF and SP votes
- Add two prospect slots - 3 prospects is good (says the guy with 7 prospect picks this year). Unless you mean adding roster spots for prospects like yahoos N/A slot. then a yes.
- Make waivers an additional day - No, good like it is
- Remove demerit system - yes
- Champion only gets 8 keepers - No

455Nerfherders
      ID: 33543714
      Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 13:50
Some math to help support lowering the max IP cap:

2018 Total Starter IP: 26,066.67, 5.33 IP per start

2008 Total Starter IP: 28,198.67, 5.8 IP per start

A half an inning in 10 years.

Think of SP as start-buys. When you keep or draft a starter your'e buying 30 starts, presumably. If a team with good closers has a maximum of, say, 300 IP for relievers, that's 1100 IP a team has to come up with with start-buys. In 2008 you could buy 190 starts to get that. In 2018 you needed to buy 208 starts. That's more than one half season of a full-time starter more. There's only 4860 starts to buy, and if every team is wishing to get to 1100 SP IP, they're buying 4160 starts. The 'spare' starts - starts that are left over if everyone gets 1100 SP innings - have gone down from 1060 to 700.

If the 'opener' trend continues, starter IP are going to continue to dwindle, and start-buys are going to be harder and harder to come by as people need to buy more starts to get to their IP thresholds.

In the end I think 1350 is a fair number for an IP cap, but I would advise against adding roster spots as that just brings it back to where we are now.
456Khahan
      ID: 467501510
      Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 15:11
Lets try a look at the demerit for missing the IP a different way. So many people claim, "It can be done." And yes, it can be. But I say, "it cannot be done by all."
We have 30 major league teams. 5 out of 7 days a week all 30 play. If we start 1 pitcher a day, using the math from 455, we have an average of 5.33 IP per day from SP. Over the course of a 180 day season that is 960 IP. So we have to start more than 1 SP a day.
There are 20 managers and 30 mlb teams. If 10 teams start 2 pitchers a day that means 10 teams cannot start more than 1 pitcher a day. On any given day, half the league is physically unable to have enough starters going to meet the minimum IP cap.
Yes, we have relievers to help. I ran 4-5 relievers out there every day. But sometimes they sit without pitching 2-3 days. Sometimes they pitch 1 out, sometimes 1 1/3 IP.
To meet the minimum IP cap we need to average 7IP per day. That's a tall order to ask of 20 people when statistically speaking half the league is looking at an average of about 6 2/3 IP per day (average IP from a starter plus average IP/day of some relievers.

Now, admittedly lowering the IP cap and thus the min IP limit will help alleviate some of this. But until we get a clearer picture of the number, issuing demerits to league members who may be mathematically unable to complete the task is patently unfair. Especially if we add roster spots. Some managers will keep that many more SP on their rosters which is that many fewer SP to rotate thru.

Oh, and those numbers dont take into account that 2/7 (or 28.5%) of the days, the available of SP drops because of off days. Those numbers above when looking at available pitchers compared to needed IP and team need assumes all 30 teams play. But in more than a quarter of the days, that is not the case.
457Tree
      ID: 77532019
      Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 15:19
Tree, everyone has tough roster decisions to be made. Iíve lost out on some really good keepers in order to maintain minimums.

EXACTLY. no way should we be sacrificing keepers to hit minimums. it is everything a fantasy game should NOT be about.

It sounds like you missed the ip minimums out of spite.

no, i just stopped trying, after weeks of seeing "starting pitchers" who would only go 1 or 2 innings being all that was in the free agent pool.

The minimums prevent tanking or loading up on every young guy and phoning in the season. Thatís what would happen without the minimums.

is there historical precedence in THIS league of people tanking?

and what young guys are people going to load up on? there are very few in the free agent pool.
458Tree
      ID: 77532019
      Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 15:31
amen nerf and khahan.

as i said, the game is changing. and in a tiny view, a half-inning in 10 years may seem like nothing, but when the extrapolation is done, and time goes on, that number is going to grow.

the math here is real, it's changing the game, and on personal level, played a role in costing a struggling team a spot in a draft lottery.

*reduce the IP numbers as above.

*drop GP to 165, but 142 for catcher. no catcher played more than 140 games (ironically, one of the 19 catchers on my roster at season's end lead the league in GP for his position. more ironically, another of the 42,000 catchers on my roster finished 4th in the position in GP, despite being injured for several weeks. probably should have dropped him in the name of strategy).

* add a couple DL spots, with only keepers from the previous season being eligible (even if they were someone else's keeper)

* add one more bench spot, but only if we add one more OF or Util spot

* drop the demerit system. this entire thing is clearly a work in progress, and it's having a negative effect on things like the draft, which are designed to help weaker teams get better. punishing weaker teams doesn't help.


459darkside
      ID: 81492120
      Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 22:11
Congrats, Guru! Great season for you and I'm glad that our trade played a role.

I'd be fine with dropping the minimums, but don't want to abolish the demerits. Without the demerits the minimums are pointless. In my mind they're not only to encourage season-long activity, but also to keep rebuilding teams from hoarding young players who aren't playing.
460Khahan
      ID: 367431722
      Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 22:16
459 - what young players who aren't playing are we hoarding? There are 60 of them simply off the table. Who is left to hoard in any worthwhile capacity?
461Meatwads
      ID: 7527232
      Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 01:03
Awesome job this year Guru! I thought all the contenders played very well. You held off some monsters. I tried my best but couldn't pull it off. Your apparent love for the Indians paid off! Also, I noticed that the prospect grid and supplemental grid don't match the lottery results. It seems like you have them reversed.

This is how I'm leaning today. I could be swayed on a few of them...

- Reduce IP max to 1350. - Yes
- Reduce GP max to 165 per position - Yes
- 9 DL slots per team, only players kept in previous offseason are eligible - Yes
- Abolish catcher slot - No
- Add a 4th OF slot - Yes
- Add 3 SP slots (to 9 total) - Yes
- Add a 24th roster spot - Yes
- Add two prospect slots - Yes
- Make waivers an additional day - No
- Remove demerit system - No
- Champion only gets 8 keepers - No

462Thumqer
      ID: 39230821
      Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 09:02
Congrats Guru! Glad that Mikolas helped push you over the line!
463Khahan
      ID: 467501510
      Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 09:30
Can we get some clarification on the roster slots proposals? Say they all pass to add - we add a 4th OF slot, we add 3 P slots and we add a bench slot. Does this mean we are adding 5 total roster slots or are we converting 4 bench slots into positional slots and adding a bench slot so roster size only grows by 1? I'm assuming we're converting bench slots to positional slots then adding 1 bench slot so we'd effectively go from 15 starters and 8 bench to 19 starters and 5 bench, correct?
464blue hen
      ID: 5254718
      Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 09:44
Just to clarify my own proposal, I meant add 1 roster slot (from 23 to 24) and convert one bench slot to an OF slot (3 to 4) and 3 bench slots to pitcher slots (3 to 9). Currently, we have 8 bench slots, this would reduce that number to 4 (although I can imagine not every pitcher slot would be filled every day).
465ttucowboy
      ID: 51737190
      Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 13:38
- Reduce IP max to 1350. - Yes
- Reduce GP max to 165 per position - Yes
- 9 DL slots per team, only players kept in previous offseason are eligible - Yes, if it's not a big pain in the ass to keep track of.
- Abolish catcher slot - Lol, no
- Add a 4th OF slot - No
- Add 3 SP slots (to 9 total) - No
- Add a 24th roster spot - No
- Add two prospect slots - No
- Make waivers an additional day - No
- Remove demerit system - No
- Champion only gets 8 keepers - Lol, no
466youngroman
      ID: 20555612
      Fri, Oct 05, 2018, 18:48
- Reduce IP max to 1350. - Yes
- Reduce GP max to 165 per position - No
- 9 DL slots per team, only players kept in previous offseason are eligible - 2 or 3 DL slots would be sufficient
- Abolish catcher slot - No
- Add a 4th OF slot - No
- Add 3 SP slots (to 9 total) - Yes (no need for daily lineup changes. you simply can have almost all your pitchers active all the time. If some managers load up on relievers, more SP would be available for streaming purposes)
- Add a 24th roster spot - No
- Add two prospect slots - No
- Make waivers an additional day - No
- Remove demerit system - No
- Champion only gets 8 keepers - No
467Thumqer
      ID: 39230821
      Fri, Oct 12, 2018, 07:47
- Reduce IP max to 1350. - Yes
- Reduce GP max to 165 per position - No
- 9 DL slots per team, only players kept in previous offseason are eligible - Yes
- Abolish catcher slot - No
- Add a 4th OF slot - No
- Add 3 SP slots (to 9 total) - No
- Add a 24th roster spot - Yes
- Add two prospect slots - Yes
- Make waivers an additional day - No
- Remove demerit system - No
- Champion only gets 8 keepers - No
468mjd
      Dude
      ID: 501381415
      Fri, Oct 12, 2018, 14:17
Personally, I like things the way they are.

NO CHANGES.
469Tosh
      Dude
      ID: 057721710
      Fri, Oct 12, 2018, 16:15
- Reduce IP max to 1350. - Yes
- Reduce GP max to 165 per position - Yes
- 9 DL slots per team, only players kept in previous offseason are eligible - No. Yes for 3x.
- Abolish catcher slot - No
- Add a 4th OF slot - No
- Add 3 SP slots (to 9 total) - No
- Add a 24th roster spot - No
- Add two prospect slots - No
- Make waivers an additional day - No
- Remove demerit system - No
- Champion only gets 8 keepers - No
470Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sun, Oct 14x, 2018, 14:36
- Reduce IP max to 1350. - Yes. Would even support 1300, based on my reasoning in post 435.
- Reduce GP max to 165 per position - Yes.
- 9 DL slots per team, only players kept in previous offseason are eligible - Yes
- Abolish catcher slot - No
- Add a 4th OF slot - No
- Add 3 SP slots (to 9 total) - Yes
- Add a 24th roster spot - No
- Add two prospect slots - No
- Make waivers an additional day - No
- Remove demerit system - No
- Champion only gets 8 keepers - Hell No!
471Fosten
      ID: 359421016
      Sun, Oct 14x, 2018, 15:41
- Reduce IP max to 1350 - Yes.
- Reduce GP max to 165 per position - Yes.
- 9 DL slots per team, only players kept in previous offseason are eligible - No. Yes to a basic DL for all players.
- Abolish catcher slot - Iíll vote yes, just because nobody else has.
- Add a 4th OF slot - Yes.
- Add 3 SP slots (to 9 total) - Yes.
- Add a 24th roster spot - Yes.
- Add two prospect slots - Yes.
- Make waivers an additional day - No.
- Remove demerit system - No.
- Champion only gets 8 keepers - No.
472Nerfherders
      ID: 33543714
      Mon, Oct 15, 2018, 13:24
- Reduce IP max to 1350 - Yes.
- Reduce GP max to 165 per position - Yes.
- 9 DL slots per team, only players kept in previous offseason are eligible - No, not that many. Maybe 2 max.
- Abolish catcher slot - No.
- Add a 4th OF slot - No.
- Add 3 SP slots (to 9 total) - No.
- Add a 24th roster spot - No.
- Add two prospect slots - Yes.
- Make waivers an additional day - No.
- Remove demerit system - Yes.
- Champion only gets 8 keepers - No.
473darkside
      ID: 81492120
      Mon, Oct 15, 2018, 19:54
- Reduce IP max to 1350. - Yes
- Reduce GP max to 165 per position - Yes
- 9 DL slots per team, only players kept in previous offseason are eligible - No
- Abolish catcher slot - No
- Add a 4th OF slot - No
- Add 3 SP slots (to 9 total) - Yes
- Add a 24th roster spot - No
- Add two prospect slots - Yes
- Make waivers an additional day - No
- Remove demerit system - No
- Champion only gets 8 keepers - No
474blue hen
      ID: 5254718
      Tue, Oct 16, 2018, 12:26
I've been keeping score: G20 Offseason Voting

Through 13 votes, here are some results:
- IP to 1350: 12
- GP to 165: 9
- 3 more SP slots: 8
- 9 DL slots: 7.5 (5 yes, 5 support some form of DL, BMD had no opinion, and MJD voted to leave everything. Only 1 hard no, Darkside)

I believe the 4 above have enough support to pass, or at least make it close.

More discussion:
- 24th roster slot: 6
- 2 more prospects: 6
- 4th outfield slot: 5

Probably toast:
- Remove demerits: 3
- Abolish catcher: 2
- Longer waivers: 1

475blue hen
      ID: 5254718
      Tue, Oct 16, 2018, 12:31
Not counted in my votes: WG, Slizz, Species, Tree, Great One, Lyman*, Greggo*
477blue hen
      ID: 5254718
      Tue, Oct 16, 2018, 13:29
Unrelated, I started a shared spreadsheet for G20 History

Obviously, plenty of blanks to fill in here.

If you have time on your hands, we could use some help populating data on the first tab, especially for recent years.

If you're Excel proficient (Roman!), anything else you can offer up is helpful.
478Slizz
      ID: 29614321
      Tue, Oct 16, 2018, 14:39
- Reduce IP max to 1350 - donít care
- Reduce GP max to 165 per position - donít care
- 9 DL slots per team, only players kept in previous offseason are eligible - Yes to keepers only. No to blanket.
- Abolish catcher slot - No
- Add a 4th OF slot - No
- Add 3 SP slots (to 9 total) - No
- Add a 24th roster spot - No
- Add two prospect slots - No
- Make waivers an additional day - No
- Remove demerit system - No
- Champion only gets 8 keepers - Lol, no
479darkside
      ID: 2822316
      Tue, Oct 16, 2018, 20:42
FWIW, my hard no on the DL is due almost entirely to my belief that it would be a commish nightmare. If the commishes are on board, Iím game. But I think they should have veto power on something like that.
480Species
      ID: 102481820
      Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 19:39
Konnichiwa!!

I will begin addressing the various proposals. Thank you blue hen for leading the charge for a straw poll. I can craft formal vote language from there.

I am thinking of 3 DL spots for keepers only. Let's not go overboard. Yes, that is basically self managed/overseen by the league.....but I think it is manageable.....we could even throw in a penalty for misuse to increase manager attention to self-management.

How about these LCS'??? Great series so far.
481blue hen
      ID: 5254718
      Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 10:25
The link in 477 is getting close to complete managerial record. Still need some detail for 2003, 2004, and 2006, if anyone has it. For 2006, just need to know Cards or RFS and Trip or THK. If anyone has draftime links or if the data's still in sportsline, let me know.

All told, we're only missing 12 manager/season combos out of 320.
482blue hen
      ID: 5254718
      Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 11:07
Guru to the rescue with some old data. I think almost every season is accounted for. So, without further adieu:

Best Managers in G20 History, by average finish:
1. WG 17.92
2. BH 16.05
3. MBJ 15.75
4. Ref 15.46
5. ksoze 15.00 (1 season)
6. Meatwads 14.25 (2 seasons)
7. Coyotes 14.00 (1 season)
8. BJ21 13.75
9. RFS 12.67
10. Youngroman 12.65
11. Twarpy 12.14
12. Guru 12.14
13. Tosh 11.94
483youngroman
      ID: 20555612
      Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 16:14
I enriched the sheet with all the data I had.
I added a 2nd manager column for seasons where there was a manager change. the 2nd column contains the manager that left during that season. the first column contains the new manager. don't know which manager should be attributed for the good/bad result that season.

what is missing:
- category data for 2009 and 2010. does anyone have them archived somewhere?
- GP and IP for 2003 to 2017. data since 2011 is available on ESPN but this can't be automated. need to find time to copy these values over.
484blue hen
      ID: 5254718
      Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 17:06
I can enter GP and IP data, and moves, where available. I was going to enter the other stuff by hand, so you've already saved a ton of time.

For 2nd manager, let's just forget about it everywhere except where we show everything. If you're the second manager, you don't get credit for the season.

Adding cat leaders now - looks like Meatwads broke my HR record this season.
485blue hen
      ID: 5254718
      Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 17:40
... and category records are in decent shape. Roman, you're the best.
486beastiemiked
      ID: 35282121
      Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 19:58
16 seasons is pretty impressive. Only 3 original owners which is kinda insane considering our league is as strong as ever.
487blue hen
      ID: 5254718
      Fri, Oct 19, 2018, 10:48
I added a Championships section.

Not exactly news that Ref and BH have 4, Species has 3 and a bunch of people have 1. This counts ties as 1 championship, mostly because I couldn't figure out how to count them as a half. Roman, any ideas? Also added Most Top Three, Most Top Six, and Most Top Ten, if anyone is interested.

Roman, can you also check the roto standings? I think the order of categories changed over time, so which points are in which categories doesn't match up.
488blue hen
      ID: 5254718
      Fri, Oct 19, 2018, 12:23
I added a "Draft Data" tab, and input the data from the 2018 prospect draft. If someone could populate the "Franchise" column and add previous prospect drafts, that'd be great. I have some ideas for draft related tabs.
489youngroman
      ID: 20555612
      Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 03:54
bh - I corrected the roto points for W/SV#/K that were off for 2011 to 2018.
490blue hen
      ID: 5254718
      Mon, Oct 22, 2018, 10:59
Awesome, thanks Roman.

Current State of History Doc

Alright, here's what's still out there, either missing data or errors.

- Data Tab. Missing all data from 2009-2010 except final roto total. Desperately need this.
- Data Tab. Missing GP and IP totals for 2011-2017. You can find this info by going to a historical standings page, selecting a team, selecting Roster Summary, go to the bottom and look at the totals. Offense and Pitching are on separate pages. This info just needs to be added to columns AC and AD on the Data Tab.
- DraftData Tab. Missing all historical p-draft picks (top priority), s-draft picks and keepers. This data exists, just needs to be entered.
- Championships Tab. Doesn't account for half championships in any of the tables. Need a strategy here.
- Manager Detail Tab. Dropdown isn't sorted alphabetically.
- Manager Detail Tab. Prospect pick query isn't working.
- Categories Tab. Many roto categories aren't working.
491Species
      SuperDude
      ID: 07724916
      Mon, Oct 22, 2018, 17:13
blue hen and youngroman:

THANK YOU for taking the time to work on that incredible google doc with the proud history of G20. That is a LOT of fun and packed with great info.

482: I do find this "stat" interesting. Naturally I SUCK in this measure because of my "Ricky Bobby" mentality: If you aren't first, you're LAST! That attitude definitely knocks me down off of the G20 consistency leaderboard.

.....but I don't care. The column that matters is the number of Championships. The Yankees aren't measured on the consistency of their record. They are most measured based upon 28 World Series titles.

Obviously along the way I could have played for my best finishes.......but I honestly think I would have fewer titles, and be much less proud.
492blue hen
      ID: 5254718
      Mon, Oct 22, 2018, 17:27
Agreed, I give you a ton of credit for your rebuilding path. But I give WG a lot of credit for always being near the top. If you have an acceptable formula that isn't here, happy to add it.

Fosten is updating GP and IP between 2011 and 2016 (I did 2017 this morning), so that should be finished off.

Roman, I still see some roto errors in there - 2011 pitching looks weird. Wondering if we should derive roto points, as a sanity check.

Meatwads did the 2017 p draft, and I added p draft history to Manager Detail. Having trouble with the formula for Franchise in DraftDetail.

Any Excel experts, could use your help with the last 4 bullets above.

493Fosten
      ID: 319161421
      Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 04:50
Data = Entered 2011+ GP/IP. Does older data exist?
DraftData = Entered 2007+ P-Picks. Missing 2004-2006 (Rounds 1-8).
DraftData = Added draft/keeper links for quick reference. Missing some old threads. Data needs extracted.
Manager Detail = P-Pick query now working. (Replaced VLOOKUP in DraftData:Franchise with INDEX/MATCH.)
494blue hen
      ID: 5254718
      Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 11:32
Great work, Fosten. You're much better at this than Fantasy Baseball, he said with a smile.

I found the missing p-drafts and added links to your link. I think I'm going to add a links tab so we can keep that record without cluttering another tab.

I also found all the s-drafts except 2004. 2003, I just had a spreadsheet from Ref so I included it in a temporary tab.

Also found all the keeper declarations. Not sure how we want to tackle p-keepers, that's the least interesting to me. I think your links might be wrong - we used to do the p-draft in July, so p-keepers in March don't actually matter as much.

Do we want a separate tab for SDraftData vs. PDraftData? Seems like it'd get pretty long with every SDraft pick in there.
495blue hen
      ID: 5254718
      Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 11:24
Fosten helped put together a To Do list, so I won't keep updating here. If you have time, expertise or both, go ahead and visit the spreadsheet and do what you can.

Looks like CBS was able to reactivate the league at guru20.baseball.sportsline.com, which should have stats, but I don't have credentials to get in there. Anyone?
496blue hen
      ID: 5254718
      Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 11:53
One more update. I got into CBS and have added 2009-10 stats, and 2003-10 transaction lists (except some of 10 is missing from the site), in poor format on tabs at the end. I imagine fosten or Roman could work with that and get the data tab updated. The transactions is a lot of data, so hoping we can kill the tab when we have the numbers calculated.

Couldn't find GP or IP, and again, missing some 10 transactions.
497Ref
      ID: 19592411
      Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 12:59
Good stuff bh.
498Species
      SuperDude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 18:51
That spreadsheet is amazing! Thank you blue hen, youngroman, Fosten and Ref for providing some old data. REALLY adds to the enjoyment (for me at least) of this great league!

FYI -- someone points out that the draft grids flip-flopped the lottery results. They were right and I have corrected my master grid. Will post a replacement sometime later.
499youngroman
      ID: 20555612
      Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 19:05
added missing stats from 2009-2010 to data tab. I guess the "2009-10 stats" tab can be removed

I also added 2 activestats tabs. 1 for hitting stats, 1 for pitching stats. contains all player stats that were accumulated since 2011, split by each G20 team. if you spot something strange, point it out and I will correct it.

I also logged into CBS but could not find any meaningful info that we don't already have. ESPN is superior when it comes to historic stats.
500Blue hen
      ID: 410452818
      Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 23:47
This sheet is getting big. I was just going to say we should get Moves numbers and kill that huge tab.
501blue hen
      ID: 5254718
      Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 14:37
Roman, thanks for the activestats, awesome data. I set up a tab called Mgr Players, which lists the top players (sorted by AB) for the team in each year.

Some notes on that:
- I hardcoded a lot on that tab, you might have a more efficient way to do it, so we don't have to redo everything each year.
- The data is grouped by "Team Name" which is the actual team name listed on ESPN. So teams that changed their names are separate dropdown items. We could fix this, but it's manual work. They should match the franchise names and manager names we use elsewhere.
- Some of the player names are missing trailing letters. No real pattern there - I wonder if that was bad in the original data.

Unrelated, someone (I'm guessing Fosten) added a border column to DraftData and threw off the Detail tabs. I think I fixed that.

Still can't get HR or ERA to work in the Cats tab. Any ideas?
503Species
      SuperDude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 17:22
I have started a new Offseason Discussion thread, with its immediate priority the voting on some of the rule changes we have contemplated over the last month or two. Please go there and cast your votes.

Once that is done, we can continue in that thread with some further rule change discussions (expanding prospect draft, adding a 24th roster spot) and other offseason chatter (i.e. soliciting trades), as well as discuss and review the new google doc.
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