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0 Subject: Gurupie 20 - 2018 Offseason Discussion

Posted by: Species
- SuperDude [07724916] Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 15:46

Constitution
Prospects - 300AB 110_IP/40_GP to remain a prospect.

(Draft Rounds 1-3, '04; 4-5, '05; 6-8, '06; 9-11, '07; 12-14, '08; 15-17, '09; 18-20, '10; 21-23, '11; 24-26, '12; 27-29 '13; 30-32 '14; 33-35 '15; 36-38 '16; 39-41 '17; 42-44 '18)
MGR: #, Name,Pos,Team,(# Call-ups)

bmd: 39.03 Vladimir Guerrero Jr, 3b, TOR; 42.01 Fernando Tatis Jr, SS, SD; 42.08 MacKenzie Gore, SP, SD; 43.04 Leody Taveras, OF, Rangers; 43.14 Colin Moran, 3b, PIT
Blue Hen: 43.15 Yusei Kikuchi, SP, Seibu Lions NPB; 44.03 Yordan Alvarez, 1B, HOU
Darkside: 43.08 Austin Hays, OF, Bal; 44.01 Alec Hansen, SP, Det
Great One: 36.01 Brendan Rodgers, SS, COL; 40.04 Kyle Lewis, OF, SEA
GreggoRomans: 39.01 Mickey Moniak, OF, PHI; 40.02 Alex Verdugo, OF, LAD; 42.04 Sixto Sanchez, SP, PHI
Guru: 39.18 Francisco Mejia, C, CLE
Fosten: 31.08 Austin Meadows, OF, PIT (1)
Khahan: 39.12 Yadier Alvarez, SP, LAD; 42.16 Michael Chavis, 3b, BOS; 43.12 Christian Arroyo 3rd/SS TB; 44.04 Derek Fisher, OF, HOU
Lyman: 34.09 Nick Gordon, SS, MIN; 40.07 Brent Honeywell, SP, TB; 42.06 Forest Whitley, SP, HOU
Meatwads: 42.05 Jhailyn Ortiz, OF, PHI
mjd: 39.02 Kevin Maitan, SS, ATL; 42.03 Royce Lewis, SS, MIN; 42.10 Austin Riley, 3b, ATL; 43.01 Michael Soroka, P, ATL
Nerfherders: Kolby Allard, SP, ATL; 42.12 Luis Gohara, SP, ATL; 43.09 Brendan McKay, SP/1B TB
Slizz: 42.07 Taylor Trammell, OF, CIN; 42.14 Jo Adell, OF, LAA; 43.11 Jesus Sanchez, OF, TB; 44.02 Gabriel Arias, SS, SD
Species: 36.17 Victor Robles, OF, WAS; 39.04 Nick Senzel, 3b, CIN; 42.17 Estevan Florial, OF, NYY; 42.19 Keston Hiura, 2B, MIL
Thumper: 39.10 Kyle Tucker, OF, HOU; 42.02 Bo Bichette, 2b/SS, TOR; 42.09 Triston McKenzie, SP, CLE; 42.20 Carter Kieboom, SS, WSH; 43.03 Mitch Keller, SP, PIT
Tree: 39.08 Michael Kopech, SP, CWS; 42.05 Willie Calhoun, OF, TEX (1); 43.02 Luis Urias, IF, SD
ttucowboy:
Tosh: 37.12 Anthony Alford, OF, TOR
wg: Willy Adames, SS, TB (2); 42.18 Hunter Greene, SP, CIN
youngroman: 39.15 Luis Robert Moiran, OF, Cuba; 42.13 Michael Baez, SP, SD; 43.10 Kyle Wright, SP, ATL

These managers have had their 2019 Supplemental Draft selections altered via trade:
3-19-17 Thumper receives WG's 1st (Desmond + Harvey / B. Rodgers)
3-25-17 Meatwads receives WG's 7th for his 11th (2017 pick swap)
3-30-17 bmd receives Species' 7th and 9th for his 10th and 11th (2017 pick swaps)
5-21-17 Thumper receives WG's 8th for his 14th (Triggs, Wheeler / Altherr)
2-08-18 Species receives Meatwads' 4th for his 12th (Gordon/Cruz/E5)
2-09-18 GO receives slizz' 4th for his last pick (Acuna/Rodgers/Moncada/Quintana/Hill/picks)
2-09-18 GO receives Thumpers 3rd for his second to last pick (Acuna/Rodgers/Moncada/Quintana/Hill/picks)
3-07-18 Thumper receives Species' 5th for his 9th (Godley)
3-08-18 slizz receives bmd's 3rd for his 14th (W. Davis)
3-15-18 Great One receives Meatwads' 2nd and 5th for his 7th and last (2018 Supplemental)
3-16-18 Great One receives Fosten's 4th for his 10th (Matz)
3-16-18 mjd gets WG's 4th for his 14th (Winker, 2018 picks)
3-20-18 Fosten gets WG's 12th for his 14th (2018 pick)
4-12-18 Thumper receives his own 3rd back (via GO) for his 10th (Morrow)
4-15-18 Species receives WG's 3rd for his 8th (H. Ramirez)
4-16-18 Judy receives WG's 6th for her 7th (Peraza / Kennedy)
4-23-18 slizz receives Thumper's 6th for his 10th (O'Neill)
4-28-18 bmd receives slizz' 6th for his 8th (Hicks)
4-29-18 mjd receives slizz' 7th for his 11th (Gibson)
5-11-18 bmd receives blue hen's 2nd for his 13th (Boxberger)
5-25-18 darkside receives Tree's 8th for his 11th (Grandal / Andujar)
6-10-18 Species receives slizz' best 3rd for his 6th (Kemp)
6-18-18 Species receives WG's 5th for Thumper's 9th (via Species) (S. Wright, Solarte)
7-03-18 slizz receives Meatwads' 1st (Hand/Price/Morton)
7-28-18 Khahan receives GO's 3rd for his 13th (Keuchel)
8-04-18 darkside receives blue hen's 11th for his 14th (Herrera/Gsellman)
8-05-18 Fosten receives Meatwads' 9th for his last (Hamilton / Hand)
8-08-18 darkside receives Guru's 5th for his 9th (S. Greene)
8-10-18 WG receives blue hen's 3rd for his 10th (Peraza)
8-15-18 Judy receives WG's best 11th for her last (Lynn / Barraclough)
8-20-18 youngroman receives Guru's 11th for his 14th (E. Jackson)
8-20-18 mjd receives WG's 11th for his 14th (Chacin)
8-25-18 Fosten receives ttucowboy's 7th for his 12th (B. Parker)

The following managers have had their 2019 Prospect Draft selections altered via trade:

8-17-17 Thumper receives Fosten's 1st and 2nd round picks (Meadows)
5-20-18 Khahan receives ttucowboy's 1st and 2nd round picks (Dozier)
5-25-18 blue hen receives Khahan's best 2nd round pick (Semien)
7-03-18 Thumper receives Guru's 1st (Mikolas, Cueto)
7-27-18 Khahan receives Fosten's 2nd (via Thumper) (Strasburg)
7-28-18 Khahan receives GO's 2nd (Keuchel)
8-25-18 Khahan receives his best 2nd back (via 5-25 trade w/blue hen - McCutcheon)


These managers have had their 2020 Supplemental Draft selections altered via trade:

3-15-18 Thumper receives GO's 2nd and 5th for his 7th and 14th (Britton / Eaton + Calhoun)
5-10-18 bmd receives WG's 1st for his 14th (W. Davis)
5-15-18 Bean receives Meatwads' 2nd for his last (A. Simmons)
6-20-18 Species receives Tosh's 5th for his 7th (Dyson)
7-03-18 Species receives GO's 6th for his 10th (Sabathia)

The following managers have had their 2020 Prospect Draft selections altered via trade:

7-03-18 Thumper receives Guru's 1st (Mikolas, Cueto)

Previous Champions
2003 (tie) Ref and StL Cards
2004 Ref
2005 Ref
2006 Beastiemiked
2007 Twarpy
2008 Ref
2009 Peter N
2010 Species
2011 (tie) Species and blue hen
2012 Toral
2013 Wazaaap Guy
2014 blue hen
2015 blue hen
2016 Species
2017 blue hen
2018 Guru

Commissioner:
"Species" gmrobinson1@yahoo.com - "Tosh" lodnar@gmail.com - "Guru" (Treasurer) davehall@rotoguru2.com

Positions
C - 1 1B - 1 2B - 1 3B - 1 SS - 1 OF - 3 DH - 1 P - 6
Active - 15; Bench - 8; Total - 23; Must have active players on roster at each position

Returning Managers
As commissioners, we reserve the right NOT to extend an invitation to (or remove) any manager for any reason. Primary reason for being excluded would be abusive behavior, purposeful rules violations (ie colluding on a trade), inactivity (ie leaving injured/OUT players in as starters or not actively trying to improve your team), not participating in league business or repeated delays/unresponsive, or failure to pay your share of league fees. If an owner is removed or NOT invited back, a new owner will be recruited to take over the vacated team in its exact state. All monies will be forfeited.

Trade Policy
If there are 7 votes against the trade it will be sent to the commishs to be vetoed. There will be a min. of one full day to vote before the trade will be approved if the max objections are not reached. Everyone will be emailed by ESPN automatically as soon as the trade is accepted so they may review it. Make sure your email notifications are set up! Please check the site daily.

Trades involving draft picks/prospects will be listed in the trade and can also be posted on our leagues bulletin board and/or our thread at rotoguru.com. Note that off-season and pre-season (before draft is complete) trades will still be approved by the commishs.

Trades for draft picks - be they Supplemental or Prospect picks - may only be consummated within two drafts from the date of the trade. Example: in March 2015 before the Supplemental Draft, one can only trade either 2015 or 2016 picks. In June 2015, one could trade either 2016 or 2017 picks, etc.

Trade deadline - the trade deadline is the last day in August available in the ESPN website.

Minimums for GP and IP:

A team must accumulate a minimum of 1375 GP by hitters over the course of a season. For each 15 games of shortfall, a team is assigned one demerit. Demerits will be integer values only. Thus, a team with 1-15 games of shortfall will receive one demerit, 16-30 will receive 2 demerits, etc.

A team must accumulate a minimum of 1200 IP over the course of a season. For every shortfall of 15 IP, a team is assigned one demerit. Demerits will be integer values only. Thus, a team with 1-15 IP of shortfall will receive one demerit, 16-30 will receive 2 demerits, etc.

GP and IP demerits will be combined for each team. However, the first two demerits will be forgiven.

If a team finishes “in the money” for prize pool purposes (ranked 1-6), then demerits will be ignored.

For lottery teams, the following penalties will be applied to every pick in the next year’s supplement draft:

If a team accumulates more than 10 demerits, then it will be removed from the lottery and assigned the 14th pick in all rounds (i.e., behind all lottery teams, but ahead of any prize pool teams.)

For teams with less than 10 demerits, that team is pushed forward one place in the supplemental draft rankings for each demerit. For example, if a team finishes in last place (20th) and has 5 demerits, then that team will be treated in the draft rankings as though it finished in 15th place (and the teams actually finishing in places 16-20 will each move down one place.)

If more than one lottery team has a demerit, then the lottery rankings will be successively applied starting with the worst finisher and then moving up to the next worst finisher, etc.

Keepers
There will be 9 players available to be kept heading into the season. You will have a deadline to post your keepers. You may change your keepers up until the deadline.

Players drafted in the Rule 4 draft the previous June are not eligible to be kept as keepers. This rule applies even if that player has played in the major leagues. All Rule 4 draftees must go through at least one Prospect Draft prior to being eligible as keepers.

2017 Prize Pool
There are 19 of 20 people in the prize pool @ $15 each. That means there is $285 to distribute. Teams are required to always be in it or out of it once they committed to it in 2005. These will be the payouts: 1st $110; 2nd 65; 3rd 45; 4th 30; 5th 20; 6th 15. If a non-participant places 1st-6th, his money will be reallocated so there is always a 100% payout. 1st-5th place will be moved up a spot in the prize money and the 6th place $15 will go to the treasury to help defray dues costs to all. Dues are used to pay for the league champion trophy and draft.

Supplemental and Prospect Draft Lotteries:
The lotteries for both the Supplemental and Prospect Drafts will be conducted within 30 days of the end of the previous season.

Timing of the Keeper Deadline, Prospect Draft and Supplemental Draft
Each March, as proposed by a Commissioner, the league hold the following events, in this order:

1) Keeper Deadline: all teams must designate their keepers. They may designate up to 9.
NOTE: At this time, once the Keeper Deadline has passed, managers may also call up prospects to their active roster. In this scenario, those prospects are separate from their 9 keepers.
ADDITIONALLY: Once the keeper deadline has passed, managers may exceed 9 or more players by trade.
2) Prospect Keeper Deadline: Managers designate their Prospect Keepers. They may designate up to 3.
3) Prospect draft picks are assigned and the Prospect Draft is commenced per our rules below.
4) The Supplemental Draft is completed.

Supplemental Draft, FA Pickups and Waivers
The Draft will be held prior to every season after Keepers are announced. A "NBA style" lottery will determine the top three selections. The lottery for the following season will be completed within 30 days of the end of regular season. Picks 4 - 20 and all picks in subsequent rounds will be in inverse order of previous years finish and will not snake.

Players must be available in the ESPN player pool to be drafted or added during the season via FA or WW. No amateur player may be drafted or picked up via FA or WW if the player in question still has amateur status or is a prospect. Also, if a player is drafted in the June MLB draft, while he may be freely picked up and used on a roster, please note that per our keeper rules they may not be kept the following season. All Rule 4 draftees must go through one Prospect Draft before they become keeper eligible.

There is a 3 hour per draft pick time limit and a cumulative time limit of 12 hours. (Subject to change). You may not exceed 23 players. You may not drop a player (or add a non-drafted player if you are short) until waivers have been turned on. You may trade for extra picks and you may trade your excess picks as long as it is done before the preceeding pick has been made. If you make a duplicate pick, the draft will continue and you may correct that pick at any time. Once you have been skipped, you will continue to be skipped until you are caught up. If a clock runs out, the next person on the clock will be charged for any time before his pick. If you are skipped due to a pick or c clock, you may still post your selection at any time.

Waivers will begin the season in the same order as the supplemental draft. Lottery picks and traded draft picks will not be considered when determining the waiver order.

Prospect Rules:
The underlined key deadlines and procedures are completed in a linear fashion, one after the other.

Keeper Deadline:
At a time announced by the Commissioner, all managers must have no more than 3 keepers on their prospect list. This is the only point in time where teams must have 3 or fewer prospects.

Managers will announce what prospects they intend to keep on the prospect list, which prospects they are releasing, and (if applicable) which prospects they are calling up and releasing (see below).

All hitters must have less than 300 ABs and pitchers less than 110 IP or 40 GP to remain a prospect. Otherwise, they must be moved to your active roster or released. Managers must monitor their own prospects. If they are later to have found to be over the max. at that deadline, the player will be immediately removed as a prospect and put on waivers.

Owning another team's prospect pick has no bearing on the above.

Assignment of Prospect Picks:
After declaration of kept, released or called up prospects, Managers are assigned new prospect picks dependent upon how many prospects they kept - with the total sum of kept prospects and new picks of your own limited to a total of 3. Specifically:

- If you keep 3 prospects, you receive no new picks
- If you keep 2 prospects, you receive your 1st round prospect pick
- If you keep 1 prospect, you receive your 1st and 2nd round prospect picks
- If you keep no prospects, you receive your 1st, 2nd and 3rd round prospect picks

If an owner has traded away one of their prospect picks, they must reduce their kept prospects below three in order to comply with the terms of their trade. See "if you have traded away a pick", below.

Owning another team's prospect pick has no bearing on the above.

End of Keeper Deadline Activity:
Upon the completion of the keeper deadline and the assignment of picks, managers may then exceed three prospects by trade.

Processing of Traded Prospect Picks:
After the assignment of picks, the league will officially process all traded picks:
If you have traded away a pick: As noted above, any team that has traded away a pick must comply with the terms of their trade. This means that the number of prospects you are allowed to keep is reduced by the number of prospect picks you have traded away. As with any trade, if an owner trades away a pick in a round that they do not own, the receiving party receives a pick of a higher round to satisfy their trade.
If you have traded for a pick: Acquired picks are only used as picks in the Prospect Draft. The owning of another team's pick in no way alters the number of prospect keepers you may have, nor does it effect the assignment of your own prospect picks.

Prospect Draft:
The Prospect Draft will be held during the preseason after keepers are finalized (but before the Supplemental Draft). Drafts will be in inverse order of the final standings of the previous year and will not snake. A "NBA style" lottery will determine the top three selections. The lottery for the following season will be completed within 30 days of the end of regular season. Picks 4 - 20 and all picks in subsequent rounds will be in inverse order and will not snake. Players will be selected on our thread at rotoguru.com if possible. If that site is down, our draft will continue on the bulletin board of our page if we have knowledge of all picks selected previously. Ties will be broken by a dice roll. There will be up to 3 rounds.

A draft-eligible prospect is defined as a hitter that has less than 150 Major League at bats or a pitcher with less than both 55 Major League innings pitched and 20 Major League games pitched. Further, to be eligible, the player must be a professional baseball player, defined as one of the following:

- Under contract with a MLB teams system. This does not require them to have been assigned to a minor league team at the time of the draft.
- A professional player playing in/having played in Japans Nippon Professional Baseball (NPB) league.
- A professional player playing in/having played in Koreas Korean Baseball Organization (KBO) league.
- A professional player playing in/having played in Cuba's top professional league, the Serie Nacional.

Amateur players in High School, College or otherwise subject to the Rule 4 draft are not eligible.

There will be a 3 hour per pick clock and a 4 hour cumulative clock to draft. If you are skipped, you may make your selection at any time. Time will not accrue from midnight to 8 am ET, though anyone may select during that time if their pick is up. Once the draft concludes, the only way to add a prospect is via trade or future drafts. After the draft, you may bring this player on your active roster at any time (as long as hes in the ESPN database) by dropping a player.

Prospect callup rules: Managers may call-up and then send down their prospect up to two times without losing their rights as a prospect as long as that player has not hit the maximum ABs/IP/GP threshold. Once a commish allows the call-up, he will add the number of times that player has been called-up next to his name in the Prospect List below. At the end of the season, all prospects on the roster will be considered optioned so they wont have to be counted as a keeper so long as they have not hit their threshold. Before a commish will option or send-down a prospect, he will look at the stats for that player including games played that day if the lineup freeze has passed. If a prospect is renounced or hits his threshold while on your roster (called up), his name will be removed from your prospect list.

Alphabetical list of Prospects:

Willy Adames
Jo Adell
Anthony Alford
Kolby Allard
Yadier Alvarez
Yordan Alvarez
Gabriel Arias
Christian Arroyo
Michael Baez
Bo Bichette
Willie Calhoun
Michael Chavis
Derek Fisher
Estevan Florial
Luiz Gohara
Nick Gordon
MacKenzie Gore
Hunter Greene
Vladimir Guerrero JR
Alec Hansen
Austin Hays
Yoshihisa Hirano
Keston Hiura
Brent Honeywell
Mitch Keller
Carter Kieboom
Yusei Kikuchi
Michael Kopech
Kyle Lewis
Royce Lewis
Kevin Maitan
Brendan McKay
Triston McKenzie
Austin Meadows
Francisco Mejia
Mickey Moniak
Colin Moran
Jhailyn Ortiz
Austin Riley
Luis Robert
Victor Robles
Brendan Rodgers
Sixto Sanchez
Jesus Sanchez
Nick Senzel
Michael Soroka
Fernando Tatis
Leody Tavares
Taylor Trammell
Kyle Tucker
Luis Urias
Alex Verdugo
Forest Whitley
Kyle Wright
Only the 50 most recent replies are currently shown. Click on this text to display hidden posts as well.
[Lengthy or complex threads may require a slight delay before updating.]
431 Gregg Curry
      ID: 38855205
      Fri, Feb 08, 2019, 20:20
Haha. I'm not Blue Hen. If you, Fosten, are not Blue Hen either, then the Max teams he could be are 18. Since, I know Meatwads personally, and know he is not Blue Hen, then we are down to 17. Since we saw a picture of Blue Hen here with three other managers, I think evidence suggests Blue Hen could only be 14 of us at the most. :-)
432 Gregg Curry
      ID: 38855205
      Fri, Feb 08, 2019, 20:22
Oops. I should not post here using my phone. Every time I do, it double posts or worse
433 Gregg Curry
      ID: 38855205
      Sat, Feb 09, 2019, 09:00
Sixto Sanchez trade talks are heating up. If you want in, let me know now or he could be gone. Don't low-ball me because I like him, and feel good about keeping him. So, be at least as serious as the competition if you don't want to be shit down out of hand.
434 Gregg Curry
      ID: 38855205
      Sat, Feb 09, 2019, 09:02
* shut down
435Thumqer
      ID: 39230821
      Sat, Feb 09, 2019, 10:22
Trade Announcement

Blue hen trades
Andrew McCutchen, OF, PHI

Thumper trades
Carlos Santana, 1B, CLE
436Slizz
      ID: 29614321
      Sat, Feb 09, 2019, 10:34


Cue the Titanic music...
437Blue Hen
      ID: 410452818
      Sat, Feb 09, 2019, 15:33
Confirmed the Santana trade. Carlos Santana is on the block!
438Blue Hen
      ID: 410452818
      Sat, Feb 09, 2019, 16:43
By the way, there are 18 other teams I run in this league. All of them except yours...
439 Gregg Curry
      ID: 38855205
      Sat, Feb 09, 2019, 18:10
Haha
440 WG
      Donor
      ID: 35338278
      Sun, Feb 10, 2019, 00:55
Re 424

I’m still in the market for an additional keeper. Looking to trade a pick for one, or do a 1 for 2 if it makes sense.
441Tosh
      Dude
      ID: 057721710
      Tue, Feb 12, 2019, 17:01
Looking for a possible final keeper? Maybe a closer? Like to gamble? Well ... I have an offer for you.

Mark Melancon (SF) and Yoshihisa Hirano (ARI) can be on your roster!

Both appear to be the #1 backup to the current closer for their respective teams. Rotowire categorizes both current closers as "Very Low Job Security".

Here's the fun part (gambling)...
1. Send me your 12 round pick. I'll send you your choice of players, and my 14th round.
2. Once the first guy is gone, send me your 11th round pick. I'll send you the other guy, and the best round 12 pick I own.
3. Or take both players. Send me your 11th. I'll send you my 14th.
442beastiemiked
      ID: 35282121
      Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 11:04
Rule discussion/suggestion:
If a player hasn’t logged an at bat or ip above Single A he can’t be kept as a regular keeper?

Call it the Wander Franco rule. ESPN has no rhyme or reason for adding guys in their player pool. They added him back in June of 2018 but why him and not other prospects that were closer? The year before they didn’t add some highly rated prospects(Tatis Jr for example) so it just seems they randomly pick guys. Franco had a zero percent chance of being called up last year and a less than 1% chance of call up this year. The only reason to roster him last year was for keeping him this year(or trading him to another team to keep) and the following year.

I feel limiting keepers to just AA or above will allow a better prospect draft. We will have 5 prospects with the potential to have more by trades starting next year. It’ll probably take care of itself anyway since I’m sure Franco would’ve been drafted as a prospect in 2018 if we would’ve had two additional rounds. However, I feel like this closes a loophole and would only apply to anyone that isn’t kept this year.
443Nerfherders
      ID: 33543714
      Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 11:57
I'd be open to not being allowed to take any players as FA if they have no MLB experience, especially now that there's 100 player prospect pool.
444Khahan
      ID: 80441414
      Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 12:26
I thought we currently had a rule (or used to) that a player had to at least go thru a prospect draft to be eligible?
But could you expand Beastie on your proposal? It sounds like you are suggesting a guy A-ball, California, Carolina or Florida state league wouldn't be eligible.
What about international free agents?

Or are you talking name keepers instead of prospects?
445Slizz
      ID: 29614321
      Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 13:16
I think it’s easy to police - if they’re not on the real life 40 man, they are ineligible to be kept...
446Species
      SuperDude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 14:17
Good topic bmd.

First - Khahan 444 -- he ONLY means our "Major League" keepers / aka 9 keepers via ESPN. But you are right, for our 9 keepers all players must have gone through our prospect draft at least once. In Franco's case, he was signed in the international signing period well before our 2018 Prospect Draft.

Particularly in the context of our expansion to 100 prospects, I agree with the sentiment in bmd's post. There ought to be a line somewhere. I'm not sure I want to make it so NO minor leaguer without major league AB is ineligible to be kept (Nerf 443), but that is what we should debate.
447mjd
      Dude
      ID: 501381415
      Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 15:42
Well, I've held Eloy on my roster for 2 years and counting. While that may be considered a loophole, there is a downside to underutilizing a keeper and roster slot.

Of course, if in the early part of a rebuild, it may be worth it.
448Species
      SuperDude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 18:58
447: Not that you took it this way, but I do not at all interpret bmd's post as a slight on anyone who has done it, and it certainly was not a loophole. You are right, you paid the cost in keepers and roster spots and now you will finally reap the reward for a potential top 10 outfielder / top 30 player.

....and that is the rub and what we have to decide as a league. If you pay the price - and it is a material one - why not allow teams to do it?? I believe I held Prince Fielder for 2 years back in the day....

Wander Franco was, no doubt, a completely inappropriate add in ESPN while I was counting down the days for Kirilloff to be added. bmd is right that ESPN seemingly has little rhyme or reason for what minor leaguers they add or do not add.

I lean towards some sort of limit in light of 100 prospects coming down the road.
449Slizz
      ID: 29614321
      Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 20:14
MLB expanded roster - Also called the "40-man roster", the expanded roster is composed of all the players in a Major League club's organization who are signed to a major-league contract.

They can be called up or sent down at any time...I think that should be the threshold for keepers. I have no problems with guys on the 40 man, but who are not on the active mlb roster, being kept.
450Species
      SuperDude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 11:06
To summarize for any teams just coming in, bmd in post 442 has proposed the concept of some sort of limit in terms of keeping a minor leaguer in your 9 'major league' keepers. It is one thing to roster a AAA player, but bmd is right that rostering Wander Franco - 17 years old in Single-A baseball - borders on silly (and again, that is not a criticism on anyone, it is just one obvious example).

So far we have two ways to possibly tweak that:

1) Can only keep players with games played in Double-A ball or higher

2) Can only keep players who are on their respective teams' 40-man roster

Seeking more input on whether:
1) you think this idea makes sense for our league
2) what limit or measurement would we use to limit what minor league players you are allowed to keep. This could be one of the ideas to date or a new method of your own.

Your comments and suggestions appreciated.
451blue hen
      ID: 5511361810
      Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 11:17
While I can see where this discussion is coming from, and I don't particular like when minors guys get kept (although credit MJD for making it work), I do have some hesitation here. I don't want to eliminate a path to rebuilding. We allow managers in this league to be creative, and this is one of the more interesting manifestations of that.

Is there too much tanking in this league? I don't think so, but if you do feel that way, would BMD's solution solve it? If not, what is the problem that needs to be addressed? Is it that we've placed TOO much emphasis on prospects? Is it that we don't have enough keeper slots? This is OUR league, and it can go whatever way we want it to - I just hope that all of our rule change proposals have specific goals to push things in that direction.
452 Gregg Curry
      ID: 38855205
      Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 11:52
I think the questions Blue Hen raises are god questions for us to consider before we make a rule change. The problem seems to be espn's erratic, seemingly non-logical process of adding some (Franco) and not other (Kiriloff) prospects.
453Lyman
      ID: 48842210
      Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 11:57
re:

So far we have two ways to possibly tweak that:

1) Can only keep players with games played in Double-A ball or higher

2) Can only keep players who are on their respective teams' 40-man roster

When you say "keep" are you specifying as one of your nine non-prospect keepers? Just want to be sure that these two items are not meant as restrictions for Prospect keepers.
454Nerfherders
      ID: 33543714
      Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 13:01
I've been guilty of keeping prospects on my active roster as well. I had no less than 3 of them kept a couple years ago. The thing that rubs me the wrong way is teams in contention taking undrafted prospects off of FA in hopes of trading them to a rebuilding team in the offseason. This is, in fact, how I got Snell, Arcia and Brinson, but I'd rather that kind of activity be limited. Everyone should have a fair shake at prospects during the prospect draft, instead of a few teams waiting for their guy in the mid-season top 100 list to pop up on ESPN in July.
455Khahan
      ID: 80441414
      Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 13:19
I'm actually questioning myself if this is an issue that needs a rule to resolve it. For one, has it reared its ugly head in the past enough that its caused problems?
For another, doesn't the expansion of prospect actually dampen the effect? We are drafting and keeping more prospects as prospects. That means even less players are available in the FA pool to scoop up and hold hostage. The likelihood of a top prospect not being protected on a prospect list goes down, not up.
456Tree
      ID: 77532019
      Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 14:46
but bmd is right that rostering Wander Franco - 17 years old in Single-A baseball - borders on silly

but is it?

would you have called it silly if you drafted and held this 16 year old kid with no MLB experience?


The Chosen One
457Species
      SuperDude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 17:33
453: 446 and 448 pretty clearly explain that this topic is only about 'major league' keepers.....aka our 9 keepers on our roster. Our prospect rules are completely unaffected by this possible change.

Note: As with most rule changes, if this were to become a rule it would go into effect for the 2020 keeper deadline.
458Lyman
      ID: 48842210
      Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 19:34
I see that now. My bad. I think my head was swirling about all the Wander Franco talk. Don't be talking about my Wander! Or my Winker!
459Slizz
      ID: 29614321
      Fri, Feb 15, 2019, 10:01
While we are on the subject of rule changes, I would like to see if there is any interest in getting rid of the catcher position in favor of a 4th OF slot?

With “pitch framing” being the requisite skill front offices are looking at in terms of signing catchers, the need for offense is mitigated (see Jeff Mathis who is a top 5 framer yet as bad as hitting pitcher). As we have all seen, the position has become nearly irrelevant where teams like BH and myself have streamed it the past couple years.

Normally, I would say an extra utility but I don’t want to open that box (think the haves will really benefit from that more than the have nots) 4th OF can still be found and utilized effectively in G20 and those who have catchers can deploy at the utility slot.
460GO
      ID: 14143919
      Fri, Feb 15, 2019, 10:30
I say keep or stash whoever the heck you want. Its your team, your bench. Your strategy for rebuilding how you think is best.

The way ESPN randomly putting them in the system seems like the bigger issue to me.
461ttucowboy
      ID: 0139159
      Fri, Feb 15, 2019, 10:42
460: Agree 100% --- With the talent we have in this league, I'm really not concerned with anyone not doing what they feel is in the best interest of their team...whether that's short term or long term. We don't have any donkeys in this league so let people run their team how they want to run it.

I do think it's a major issue that ESPN just randomly adds players. I don't know why, but I was under the assumption any player with no major league experience would have to go through 1 prospect draft before being eligible to be a part of a team's Keeper 9 (whether that's drafted as a prospect and eventually kept as part of your Keeper 9 or picked up as a FA after having gone through a prospect draft and not being drafted as a prospect). I thought we already had a rule in place for that, but apparently not.
463ttucowboy
      ID: 0139159
      Fri, Feb 15, 2019, 11:07
Forgot to add - I'm against removing the Catcher position. Opposed mainly for two reasons.

1 - By removing the Catcher, it would also remove an element of strategy. I like that some people can choose to pinwheel through the wire while others can ride a more stable player at the position. It's a choice each manager has to make and one that plays a part in ultimately determining who wins each year.

2 - By removing the Catcher, what would be next? Remove Starting Pitchers because they don't pitch as deep as they used to? Require Middle Relievers because they pitch more now than they used to? Remove Closers because they are too volatile? Remove 2nd Base because it's largely becoming a top heavy position? I think removing catcher would send us down a slippery slope.

The original purpose / mission statement of these 20 team fantasy leagues was to emulate the real deal as much as possible. I'm all for adapting as the game changes, but still want to make sure we don't lose sight of the league's original purpose / mission statement. I'm ready for some baseball!
464Nerfherders
      ID: 33543714
      Fri, Feb 15, 2019, 11:49
I'm not in favor of removing catcher, although it is much, much harder to find quality at that position. For the last two years I used the Braves tandem, affectionately known as 'Flozuki' and it worked pretty well, but it also requires having two players for one spot, and keeping up with who's in the lineup every day.
465Species
      SuperDude
      ID: 07724916
      Fri, Feb 15, 2019, 13:07
461: I was under the assumption any player with no major league experience would have to go through 1 prospect draft before being eligible to be a part of a team's Keeper 9 (whether that's drafted as a prospect and eventually kept as part of your Keeper 9 or picked up as a FA after having gone through a prospect draft and not being drafted as a prospect). I thought we already had a rule in place for that, but apparently not.

It IS a rule. In order to be eligible to be kept in your 9 major league keepers, that player must have been eligible to have been drafted in at least one prospect draft.

The players this usually applies to are the occasional top college players in the June amateur draft that make the majors in the year they are drafted (or are added to the ESPN database for some reason). While those players are eligible to be plucked from the WW and legally used in your lineup, they cannot be kept in your 9 and must go through the prospect draft.

Wander Franco, as an example, was signed during the 2017 international free agency (aka "J2") that usually starts July 2nd of each year. Thus, he was eligible to be drafted in our March 2018 prospect draft (and nearly was!).....so he is further eligible to be kept in (currently) Lyman's 9 keepers if he wishes.
466Species
      SuperDude
      ID: 07724916
      Fri, Feb 15, 2019, 13:09
Speaking as 1 team owner, I am also against removing the catcher position. I echo Pete's sentiments in 463.
467Thumqer
      ID: 39230821
      Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 16:30
I see both sides of the prospect MLB keeper argument, but generally think teams should be able to rebuild how best they see fit. Maybe a solid middle ground (if one is needed) is that teams can keep minor leaguers on the MLB keeper spots within the existing rule, but can only keep a max of 3 on the MLB side? Not sure if that would help or just add complexity.

I could see myself getting on board with swapping the Catcher spot for something else (OF or UTIL). Maybe I’m not doing it right but I view the catcher as more of a hassle than a strategy.
468Khahan
      ID: 367431722
      Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 19:42
maybe instead of eliminating the catcher, how about not counting it towards games played and it remove it from the games played equation altogether.
That way we all have the traditional catcher slot that many of us feel we shouldn't go without, but it mitigates the effects of catchers off days and limited playing time.
470Species
      SuperDude
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, Feb 19, 2019, 14:57
Team Species Trade Feelers:

While I feel my 9 keepers are fairly set, I am interested in a couple of things as the drafts and regular season approaches:

1) Supplemental Draft Pick Upgrade:
I have:
- My 1st
- Two seconds
- FOUR thirds
- A fourth
- A fifth

I would like to leverage multiple picks into another 1st rounder. Two threes for a 1 and 10? A 2 and 3 for a 1 and 6? Something along those lines where you take a step back a round or two, but in return gain a 6 or 7 round advantage or more in return.

Another option for those not contending in 2019 would be your 2019 1st for my 2020 1st. Better for those teams with an eye on the future instead of 2019....

2) Post-keeper trade - SP or Closer
The concept here is that you have kept someone in your 9 keepers that is a very viable veteran player with either very stable production or high 2019 upside.........but whether it is age or injury risk (or both!), their long term keeper viability is just limited.

A couple of examples of this include guys like:
- Nelson Cruz (but Meatwads is contending)
- Charlie Morton

....both will produce well enough to be a keeper but really (IMO) do not hold material long term value.

Closers are also good candidates for the type of trade I am seeking. Depending upon the stability of their situation, it could be in a rebuilding team's best interests to get a return on that keeper spot investment in case anything changes in their hold on the closer role.

Assets that I have available for trades of this type include:
- 2019 1.13 prospect pick
- 2020 prospect pick
- 2019 supplemental pick upgrades
- 2020 supplemental pick

If you would rather load up for the future, hedge your bets, etc, hit me up!
471Thumqer
      ID: 39230821
      Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 18:20
Looking for an ace and willing to pay for it. I have a variety of things to trade and would ideally package a combination of the below for your pitcher.
A) a pitcher I own now (Morton, J James, Heaney, musgrove, etc)
B) multiple high supplemental picks (7 picks in the first 3 rounds, 1.03 and 1.04 could both be had)
C) prospect pick(s)

I move quickly, don’t hesitate to reach out!

472Thumqer
      ID: 39230821
      Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 18:55
Garrett Hampson (2B/SS) is also on the table. RotoWire’s 24th best fantasy prospect. Hasn’t had a year below .380 OBP and 38 SB. I expect he’ll get the opening day 2B job and gets to call Colorado home!
473Species
      SuperDude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 17:47
Dovetailing off of my post #470 about post-keeper trades, for the benefit of our new / newer managers, I want to clarify a big NO NO in this regard.

While not specifically outlined within the rules, it has always been our policy to disallow any trades that circumvent or straddle any keeper deadline. Let me explain........

Example 1) I trade you Reggie Jackson today for a 3rd round pick. Then you trade me Reggie Jackson back to me, post-keepers, for a 1st round pick

Something of this general nature has come up in the past. While there is a fair exchange of value on both sides of the deadline (and a 'profit' turned by one team for holding the player as a keeper), the league is very much against pre-arranged deals that cross-over both sides of a deadline.


Example 2) I trade you Jacob DeGrom, Jose Abreu, Nick Senzel and a 3rd for Mike Trout and a 7th. But the team receiving Nick Senzel wants the other team to "hold" Senzel through the prospect keeper deadline. So they break up the trade into two 'separate' trades on each side of the deadline.

i.e.: Degrom, Abreu and a 3rd for Trout pre-keepers
Senzel for a 7th post-keepers

The point is that it is one trade as a whole, and by breaking it into 2 trades you are circumventing keeper deadlines - this is frowned upon by the league.

-- Pre-arranged trades after a particular deadline are fine. --

Example 3:

I agree now to trade my 2020 1st round supplemental pick for Charlie Morton post-keepers.

Like in my post #470, soliciting a trade that will be executed (in its entirety) after a deadline is fine. Negotiating that trade in advance is simply more efficient than only doing so after the deadline. Teams looking to acquire these assets pay a fair price for them, while also providing clarity going into the Supplemental Draft. It also gives teams with marginal keepers some clarity as to the value of that keeper spot:

1) is it better to trade Charlie Morton for Species' xxxx pick(s), or
2) do I hold onto Shane Bieber (or insert possible breakout here) and hope he breaks out

-- Arranging a post-keepers trade involving a third party is a little trickier --

Example 4):
A) I tell Tosh that if he can acquire Felipe Vazquez that I would trade him my 1.13 prospect pick post-keeper deadline.
B) Tosh then has to go acquire Vazquez at some price and acquires him for his 2.16 prospect pick

This is where it gets stickier. What has been clearly communicated in the past in this league is that teams are not in favor of "side deals", "player to be named later" deals or deals that circumvent keeper deadlines. But in this example, each trade has an independent value. A closer pre-keepers simply has a lower value than a closer post-keepers due to keeper slot scarcity. All contenders want multiple closers going into the season, and many would pay for that security.......but it also rarely makes sense (without a Kenley / E. Diaz stud combo) to hold 2 or more closers for a contender.


I hold managers in this league to a high moral standard. This league will not tolerate shady skirting of the rules. The majority of us have played together for a long time, and while we have many new managers join us over the past 3 years, this league has always had a culture of trust and integrity.

With that in mind, I am curious what managers think of these examples. This isn't a vote - but I want to hear opinions and make sure there is no confusion on what types of trades are allowed.
474 GreggoRomans
      ID: 47931312
      Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 20:17
So, re post 473 above, are examples 1 and 2 "frowned upon" and 3 and 4 are not? I don't see anything wrong with 3 and 4, but I am not sure that i am completely clear on this. I think 1 is wrong, and I am a little unclear on 2. And, for clarity's sake, why not just make a rule that spells out what can and cannot be done? That way, you wouldn't have to try to make it clear every time a new manager came into the league.
475Thumqer
      ID: 39230821
      Fri, Feb 22, 2019, 16:41
Trade Announcements!

Trade 1
Tree receives
S 1.03
S 1.04
Bo Bichette, SS, TOR (prospect)

Thumper receives
S 5.07
S 12.07
Jameson Taillon, SP, PIT

Trade2
Greggo receives
Garrett Hampson, SS/2B, COL
Thumper’s 2020 14th round supplemental pick

Thumper receives
Greggo’s 2020 1st round supplemental pick

Both squads to confirm. I’m in the market to acquire a prospect for any squad who can’t squeeze them onto their roster their thus deadline. Let me know!
476 Gregg Curry
      ID: 38855205
      Fri, Feb 22, 2019, 16:59
Con
477 Gregg Curry
      ID: 38855205
      Fri, Feb 22, 2019, 17:00
Con
478 Gregg Curry
      ID: 38855205
      Fri, Feb 22, 2019, 17:01
Confirm
479 Gregg Curry
      ID: 38855205
      Fri, Feb 22, 2019, 17:38
Didn't mean to stutter.
480Tree
      ID: 217372011
      Fri, Feb 22, 2019, 23:52
Confirmed. Hard to see Doorknob Tailon leave again, but also hard to say no to Bo, because Bo Knows.
481Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sun, Feb 24, 2019, 15:25
2019 Preseason Discussion thread is now open
482Species
      SuperDude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 14:01
Just saving our Prospect Draft pick trades for 2019 here (out of the way of our Preseason thread) for posterity, as I am deleting it from the Google doc Constitution:

The following managers have had their 2019 Prospect Draft selections altered via trade:

8-17-17 Thumper receives Fosten's 1st and 2nd round picks (Meadows)
5-20-18 Khahan receives ttucowboy's 1st and 2nd round picks (Dozier)
5-25-18 blue hen receives Khahan's best 2nd round pick (Semien)
7-03-18 Thumper receives Guru's 1st (Mikolas, Cueto)
7-27-18 Khahan receives Fosten's 2nd (via Thumper) (Strasburg)
7-28-18 Khahan receives GO's 2nd (Keuchel)
8-25-18 Khahan receives his best 2nd back (via 5-25 trade w/blue hen - McCutcheon)
11-7-18 Fosten receives his own 2nd back via Khahan (S-pick)
11-18-18 Fosten receives Lyman's 2.03 (Dahl, Chavis)
11-30-18 Thumper receives Greggo's 1.01 for his 1.10 and 1.20 (Shaw, S-pick)
12-3-18 Meatwads receives Greggo's 1.10 (via Thumper) (Hicks, Morton, S-picks)
12-8-18 Thumper receives Khahan's 1.14 (Kingery)
1-03-19 Lyman receives Thumper's 1.01 for his 1.04 (Osuna / Miller)
1-18-19 Meatwads receives Thumper’s 1.05 and 1.14 (Judge/Gallo/et al)
1-31-19 slizz receives 1.05 and 1.10 via Meatwads (Kershaw / Marquez)
2-01-19 Fosten receives 2.06 via darkside (Inglesias/Odor)
2-01-19 Thumper receives 2.17 via blue hen (Price / James)
2-05-19 Tosh receives 1.14 via Meatwads (Sale / Strasburg / Diaz)
2-06-19 Lyman receives 1.02 via mjd (Whitley/Rosario/Happ)
2-06-19 bmd receives Species’ 2.13 (Brantley)
3-10-19 Greggo receives blue hen’s 1.17 and 3.17 (Price, 2020 p-pick)
3-10-19 Greggo receives Meatwads’ 1.18 (Morton)
3-10-19 Greggo receives darkside’s 1.06 for his 3.17 (S. Sanchez)
3-11-19 Thumper receives slizz’ 1.10 for his 2.03 (2020 p-pick)
3-12-19 Greggo receives Species’ 1.13 (Bradley)
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