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Subject: Gurupie 20 - New Prospect Rules discussion
Posted by: Species
- SuperDude [07724916] Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 16:12
Prospect Rules
The underlined key deadlines and procedures are completed in a linear fashion, one after the other.
Assignment of Prospect Picks
Teams are assigned 5 picks in each season’s prospect draft. A "NBA style" lottery will determine the top 3 selections and should be completed within 30 days of the end of regular season. Picks 4-20 and all picks in subsequent rounds will use inverse order of the previous season’s final standings and will not snake. Ties will be broken by a dice roll. After the assignment of picks, the league will officially process all traded picks.
Prospect AB/IP/GP Maximums and 10th Keeper Rules
All hitters must have less than 300 ABs and pitchers less than both 110 IP and 40 GP to remain a prospect. Prospects promoted at deadline are known as "free" 10th keepers. More than 1 prospect can be promoted, allowing for 11th, 12th keepers, etc. For any prospects promoted at deadline, teams must forfeit their last supplemental picks (original or acquired), so that roster sizes do not exceed 23 players.
Prospect Keeper Deadline
At a time announced by the Commissioner, managers will declare what prospects they intend to keep, promote, release, or renounce. For the 2020 keeper deadline, despite the institution of a 5-round draft, teams have 3 of their own prospect picks available for use for keeping prospects (for the 2021 Prospect Keeper Deadline and beyond, teams have all 5 of their own prospect picks that may be used to keep a prospect). Teams may, however, use another team’s prospect pick(s) to keep either their own prospect or to exceed 3 prospects at the Prospect Keeper Deadline.
Forfeiture of Prospect Picks
After declaration of kept, promoted, renounced, or released prospects, managers must forfeit prospect picks (original or acquired) dependent upon how many prospects were kept. Specifically: If you keep 5 prospects, you forfeit 5 picks. Keep 4, forfeit 4. Etc.
For each prospect kept, that manager forfeits their last/lowest pick (original or acquired).
Trading of Prospect Picks
The trading of prospect picks alters the number of prospects you may keep. You must have an equal or greater number of picks to forfeit than prospects kept. The total league sum of kept prospects plus picks should equal 100.
If an owner has less than 5 picks, they must reduce their kept prospects below 5.
- Ex: If you trade away 2 picks, and acquire 0 picks, you can keep 3 prospects.
If an owner both trades away and acquires picks, those acquired picks can be forfeited to keep prospects.
- Ex: If you trade away 1 pick, and acquire 1 pick, you can keep 5 prospects.
Prospect Draft
The Prospect Draft will be held during the preseason after keepers are finalized (but before the Supplemental Draft). Players will be selected on our thread at rotoguru.com if possible. If that site is down, our draft will continue on the bulletin board of our page if we have knowledge of all picks selected previously.
A draft-eligible prospect is defined as a hitter that has less than 150 AB or a pitcher with less than both 55 IP and 20 GP. Note that draft-eligible prospect maximums are half of keeper-eligible prospect maximums. [the rest of the rule remains the same]
Prospect call-up rules
Managers may call-up and send-down their prospect up to 2 times without losing their prospect rights as long as that player has not hit the maximum AB/IP/GP threshold. Managers must monitor their own prospects. Before a commish allows a prospect transaction, he will look at the stats for that player including games played that day if the lineup freeze has passed. Once a commish allows the call-up, he will add the number of times that player has been called-up next to his name in the Prospect List.
- In-season: If a prospect is renounced or hits threshold while on your roster (called-up), his name will be removed from your prospect list. If a prospect hits threshold while not on your roster, you are not obligated to call him up immediately. Once you call-up a prospect over the threshold, you cannot send him down.
- Off-season: Rostered prospects under threshold will be sent-down in order to avoid being counted as a regular keeper. Unrostered prospects over threshold maintain their prospect status until next season’s keeper deadline, at which time they must be kept as part of your 9 or renounced. If they are later found to have been kept as prospects or promoted as 10th keepers at deadline despite being over threshold, the player will immediately be put on waivers and lose their prospect status if applicable. Rostered players not on the prospect list (undrafted in-season pickups or previous promotions) must be kept as part of your 9 or released, regardless of AB/IP/GP.
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| 1 | Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 16:15
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** Full credit to Fosten for this set of draft rules above **
Borrowing from this post in the Offseason Thread, here is the lowdown of how our new Prospect Rules are going to be implemented:
Species
ID: 351051122
Sat, Jan 26, 2019, 23:51 I received an inquiry today that made me realize a proper summary of the timeline of our Prospect Keepers and Prospect Draft rules were in order:
2019 Prospect Keepers:
- Normal, historical rules apply
- 3 keepers per team
- Must have your own picks to keep any keepers
- May not yet use another teams picks to keep a keeper or go over 3 keepers
2019 Prospect Draft:
- Normal, 3 round draft
2020 Prospect Keepers:
- Still limited to 3 keepers per team overall limit
- However, you may use ANY pick - be it your own or one acquired - to keep a prospect keeper
- We will apply your lowest round picks to keepers first....your highest remaining picks will be used in the Prospect Draft
- You may also exceed 3 keepers through the use of someone else's prospect picks
2020 Prospect Draft:
- The 2020 prospect draft will be FIVE rounds in total
- Thus, starting immediately, you have FIVE rounds of picks to trade if you wish
2021 Prospect Keepers (and beyond):
- Every team has 5 keeper spots to start
- You may use your own, or other teams picks, to keep your keepers
- You may exceed 5 keepers if you have other teams picks at your disposal
2021 Prospect Draft (and beyond):
- Five round draft
So, value your new 2020 picks accordingly. They can now be used to either replace a traded pick and keep a prospect or to keep more than 5 keepers.
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| 2 | Thumqer
ID: 39230821
Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 16:24
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Thanks- it answers my question from earlier!
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| 3 | Fosten
ID: 221040413
Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 16:36
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Thanks Species. :-) Can we collaborate in a Google Doc?
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| 4 | Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 17:01
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So.......I would like us all to review these proposed rules for clarity and for any corrections.
However, there is one material loophole issue involved in the manner in which we chose to implement the rule changes outlined in Post #1. As you can see, for the 2020 keeper deadline we only have THREE prospects as a 'base' to keep each......but we have FIVE rounds of the prospect draft. We allow for the use of traded prospect picks to not only substitute for our own, but to exceed 3 prospects at the keeper deadline.
THE INTENT OF THIS RULE WAS TO REQUIRE ANYONE EXCEEDING 3 PROSPECTS AT THE 2020 DEADLINE TO PAY A PREMIUM / COST OF ACQUIRING ADDITIONAL PROSPECT PICKS.
As Fosten asked me himself:
"What is to stop you and I from just trading our 4th and 5th rounders between one another and keeping more than 3 prospects? They would technically be 'acquired' prospect picks."
....and he is right.
So.....particularly in light of the chaos we just went through with concerns about secret deals and circumvention of rules, I want to be crystal clear about the intent and spirit of this rule:
- PLEASE, PLEASE use the highest level of integrity in trading and acquiring prospect picks. Do not trade one in one deal only to have an agreement to later get another back from the same party so you can have 'extra' acquired prospect picks.
- Any acquired prospect pick should carry the appropriate cost / value when being exchanged.
- Any impropriety could be punishable by expulsion from the league.
JUST DO NOT BE THAT GUY. Please learn from this recent debacle and hold yourself and everyone you trade with to the highest standard of integrity. I have lost my patience for that type of stuff. Period.
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| 5 | blue hen
ID: 5511361810
Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 17:09
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Why not just make our 3, 4, and 5 be our "keeper" picks? Everyone will have 1 and 2. If you want to use a pick to keep a player, it must be a 3, 4, or 5. As someone who traded for a 1, and traded away a 5, I'm fine with that.
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| 6 | Tree
ID: 77532019
Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 17:50
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can we discuss that dice roll tiebreaker thing?
a sword fight would be way more fun.
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| 7 | Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 13:51
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So.....in the midst of drafting is probably not the best time to expect the league's attention to this. I will push again after the draft to get opinions.
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| 8 | Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Mon, May 13, 2019, 10:59
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I am putting this subject back towards the top of the forum. This requires our review and discussion.
Seeking any needed clarity on setting into writing what we approved in the offseason. Seeking any potential loopholes that should be closed off by clearer verbiage.
Silence will be assumed as concurrence.
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| 9 | Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Fri, May 31, 2019, 12:58
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(sarcasm) Thank you everyone for your discussion and input. (/sarcasm)
By virtue of your silence, it sounds like the league is in favor of the proposed language. I am implementing.
I will blame all 19 of you if we have problems due to lack of clarity.
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| 10 | Tree
ID: 217372011
Fri, May 31, 2019, 21:50
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I didn't contribute because I find it annoyingly confusing.
Just keep 3 or 4 or 5, and give up the appropriate number of draft picks.
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| 11 | Lyman
ID: 48842210
Sat, Jun 01, 2019, 00:16
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By the rules posted above, does this mean I will either need to acquire two prospect picks or else cut 2 of my 5 stud prospects? Or will I just keep all 5 prospects and sit out the prospect draft?
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| 12 | ttucowboy
ID: 172302717
Sat, Jun 01, 2019, 02:22
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The rules are unnecessarily complicated.
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| 13 | Tree
ID: 217372011
Sat, Jun 01, 2019, 21:52
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I said from the get go that this whole slot business was nonsense.
K.I.S.S.
you can keep up to 5. for every number under 5 you get that many draft picks.
You sacrifice your 5th,4th,3rd,etc
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| 14 | GO
ID: 14143919
Sun, Jun 02, 2019, 10:06
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And I am pretty stupid, so simpler the better...
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| 15 | Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 13:35
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11: For the 2020 draft, you are allowed 3 of your own prospects. To keep more than 3, you must acquire other prospect picks.
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| 16 | Lyman
ID: 48842210
Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 02:02
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Thanks for the reply, Greg. I realize, of course, that I can 10th keeper a couple as well, so I'm not too concerned about it.
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| 17 | Lyman
ID: 48842210
Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 02:02
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Thanks for the reply, Greg. I realize, of course, that I can 10th keeper a couple as well, so I'm not too concerned about it.
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| 18 | Nerfherders
ID: 33543714
Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 11:32
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We still aren't getting the 5 prospects we voted on next year? Man, I just don't understand. I've traded prospect picks on that assumption.
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| 19 | Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 12:18
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See post 1 regarding my post dated January 26th to explain this in advance.
Before we voted on the proposal, I was clear that the limit of 3 was STILL in effect at the 2020 deadline because people already had an excess of 2019 picks, and that they would be unrightfully advantaged by NOT having to pay the extra value to keep more than 3 in 2020.
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| 20 | Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 12:52
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19: I have to correct myself. When we voted on the proposal to expand from 60 to 100 total prospects / 5 round draft, it was ambiguous as to how many keepers would be allowed at the 2020 Prospect Keeper Deadline.
That said, we had additional discussion and I clarified what the keeper rules were going to be based upon my rationale explained in Post 19 (too great an advantage of teams who already had excess 2019 prospect picks). This was done both in our offseason thread on January 26th (copied and pasted into Post 1 here), and obviously in this very thread that was specific to the prospect rules.
So Nerf, not to pick on you, but as it pertains to your question in Post 18, I'm sorry, but I feel comfortable that the treatment of the rules were very clearly delineated before you made any of your trades. In fact, there were only two trades of 2020 picks made before these rules were clarified, and each of those managers had a chance to object to the rules implementation as I outlined.
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| 21 | Tree
ID: 217372011
Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 14:14
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Pretty obviously, and once again, the rules are unnecessarily complicated, and we should work on rectifying this immediately.
The slot thing is lame and the entire argument that keeping 5 prospects is advantageous is overkill.
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| 22 | Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 19:18
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To those that wish to change the wording of the rules, please feel free to offer suggestions. I offered a set, received feedback from Fosten that I felt was an improvement, and offered those above.
The slot thing is lame and the entire argument that keeping 5 prospects is advantageous is overkill.
Spilt milk / cow is out of the barn. I recommend you master the structure we have now and take advantage to the best of your ability!
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| 23 | Fosten
ID: 144332512
Fri, Jun 21, 2019, 16:08
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The new prospect rules are an exciting change. The additional flexibility will undoubtedly inspire more ideas and strategies and trades possibilities. In time, what works and what doesn't will become apparent and we as a community may have to remain open-minded and agile to adjust as we go.
The 2-year implementation plan seems kind of wonky, but might work out fine. This late addendum to the prospect discussion arose between post 295-307 in the 2018 Off-Season Thread. The idea of incentivizing teams with more than 3 prospects to acquire extra p-picks makes sense. And it does encourage active trading of p-picks in 2020, which is a good thing. However, gradually stepping in one new rule (3 keepers/100 picks in 2020, 5 keepers/100 picks in 2021), at a time where we are not stepping in another new rule (forfeiting acquired p-picks for p-keepers starts in 2020), may confuse an already complex ruleset unnecessarily.
In regards to how this effects trades in 2020, if on one hand, we are encouraging teams to make more p-pick trades, then it seems counter-intuitive to penalize trades where teams exchange p-picks. Example: Player X+p5 for p1. Legitimate trade. But now, each team can keep 4. We may want to look at this as simply an unintended side-effect of the 2-year implementation plan rather than a loophole. If more teams are trading because of it, isn't this a good thing?
This is only a 1 year issue that will go away in 2021, so I don’t think it’s a big deal. There’s only a few teams who will actually want to keep 4 or 5 in 2020 anyway. I am fine with the ruleset as is, yet am not opposed to moving to the full system of 5 keepers in 2020, if that would be easier for everybody. Peace.
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