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0 Subject: 8 Men Out Keeper League 2021 Season 8

Posted by: Bean
- [304422310] Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 15:18

Positions for 24 round draft:

C, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, SS, RF, CF, LF, MI, CI Util
SP, SP, RP, Px4
Bench x 6
DL x2

Runs, Rbi's, HR, SB, BA
W, Saves+Holds, K's, ERA, Whip

14 points for 1st place in a given category down to 1 point for 14th place. The winner will be the team with the most overall points after the last day of the regular season ends. If there are any make up games scheduled after the last day, those games will count if hosting site rules allow

Season limits:
1350 IP
162 games played per roster slot for hitters

Keeper Rules
Managers may keep 0-9 players. Players kept count against the draft round they were chosen in. Draft rounds follow traded players but can be changed to any earlier round in the first draft following the trade. Declaration of the new round is required at the time of keeper declaration.
In-season pick ups have no draft slot so they cannot be kept.
If you do not have multiple picks in a given round, you cannot keep multiple players tied to that round.

Example 1: I draft Ted Williams in round 1. Later in the season I make a trade which brings in Mickey Mantle who was also drafted in round 1. I may keep either Williams or Mantle, but not both.

Example 2: I draft Ryan Sandberg in round 5. Via trade I also acquire Andre Dawson who was drafted in round 5. And via a second trade, I acquire a 2nd 5th round pick. I may now keep both Sandberg and Dawson in round 5. (however note - the next season if I do not obtain a second R5 pick I will only be able to keep 1 of the players). I may also keep Sandberg in Round 5 and Dawnson in any round 1-5 provided I have a slot available for him

Example 3: I draft Ryan Sandberg in round 5 of the 2014 draft. During the season I trade my 2015 round 5 pick. I may no longer keep Sandberg unless I acquire a round 5 pick before keepers are declared.

Example 4: I draft Sandberg in round 5 in 2014. I trade away my round 5 pick in 2015 but acquire Dawson who was also a 2014 round 5 pick. I may not keep either in round 5. Dawson's draft round came with him, and come keeper time I dont have a round 5 pick. I may not keep Sandberg any longer as there is no draft slot to put him in. I may declare Dawson as a keeper in any round of 1-4 as long as I have a keeper slot available.

Keepers are due 18 days before the first game of the regular season.

Keeper eligible rounds should be determined by checking the prior years draft results at not at the yahoo league site.

Manager Expectations
Managers are expected to play a full season. Giving up part way, ignoring trade offers, your team or the league can result in your removal from the league.

Trades must be balanced against a maximum of 24 players on a given team and 24 rounds of draft for each manager. Outside of that, trades may be vetoed at the commissioner's discretion if he feels there has been collusion or cheating of some kind behind the trade. Otherwise, trades will be assumed to be acceptable and pass after 24 hours unless there is an objection. If an objection is raised there will be a league-wide vote. If more than 50% of managers not involved in the trade vote against the trade, it will be vetoed. Otherwise, it will pass 48 hours after initially being accepted by all managers involved.

If you receive a keeper eligible player via trade, you may move that player's keeper round up during the keeper declarations after you received him. All other keeper rules still apply.
Example - in 2014 Khahan drafted Billy Hamilton in round 6. During the 2015 I trade him to another manager. In the 2016 keeper declaration Billy Hamilton may be declared as a keeper in any round 1-6 provided the manager has a draft slot free. For all future years that Hamilton remains a keeper that chosen round is now considered his keeper round.

In 2014 the draft will be a randomly ordered 24 round snake draft. Following years the draft will not snake. The order will be determined by how you placed the prior year. Teams finishing in 11-14 place will be in a lottery for the first 4 draft slots. All other teams will be reverse order of finish.

The draft will commence 2 days after keeper declaration and (for now) will be held at with the league hosting site at Yahoo.

The lottery draft will be held shortly after the end of the regular season (to better facilitate offseason trading).

Draft Guidelines
We will have a slow draft as noted at
Each draft slot will have a 4 hour window to make your pick. If you do not make a pick in the allotted time the next manager may go. You can make up your pick whenever you get back but forfeit the right to any players picked after you missed time. If the draft comes back to you before you make a missed pick, those future picks will be allotted 0 time until you are caught up. The clock will be shut off from 1am to 7am EST M-F and will not run on weekends - subject to change if we must meet a deadline.

Shohei Ohtani
As of 2018 yahoo has announced that Shohei Ohtani will have a player slot as a pitcher and a hitter. We will be treating these players as 2 distinct players. For intents and purposes there is a player named Shohei Ohtani who is a pitcher and a second player named Shohei Ohtani with hitting eligibility.

If we change hosting sites to a site that uses a single Shohei Ohtani or Yahoo updates to a single Shohei in future years we will handle the combining as follows:
1. If No manager has either Shohei he is drafted like any other player
2. If 1 manager has 1 Shohei and the other is not on a roster, that manager can name Shohei as a keeper
3. If 1 manager has both Shohei's he can choose either players round to make the new single Shohei a keeper
4. If 2 different managers each have different halves of Shohei, they can each submit a blind bid to keep the new singularity-Shohei. The manager who submits the earliest round gets Shohei. If there is a tie the manager will the earliest draft pick keeps him. He will be kept in the round of the submitted bid. Example I have Pitcher Shohei in r8 and Bean has hitter Shoehei in round 11 and he becomes 1 player next year, we both submit a blind bid. If I submit my bid as round 3 and Bean submits round 4, I keep Shohei as a R3 keeper.

A full, active league is extremely important to a fun time for all. A few managers seemed to give up on their teams and did not even check in on their team the final month. I will be keeping an eye on these teams and if at any point I feel a lack of interest is becoming the norm I will find a replacement manager. Please, a league like this is comprised of 13 other people who are all here to compete. If you truly do not feel you can stay focused for a full season bow out. If you have shit come up and fantasy baseball simply isn't your focus and you opt out on your own, I'll gladly give you first crack down the road to return when your situation changes. But if it gets to the point that I remove you - you're done. So please, give consideration not just to your schedule but to everybody else's schedule as well.
      ID: 304422310
      Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 15:24
This is our current schedule for the pre-season:

08 FEB BEGIN Roll Call
01 MAR CONFIRM 2021 Participants
02 MAR POST Lottery Results
15 MAR ALL Keepers Due (Rotoguru thread)
16 MAR TARGET BEGIN MLB Draft (Draftime)
01 APR Start of Season
- Khahan renewed the Yahoo League, check to make sure you have it on your league list at Yahoo
- There is no need to mark your keepers in Yahoo.
- Iíll be starting a Keeper Thread once roll call is done and we have final participants
- I will create the league at Draft Time when baseball is available, I cannot renew
      ID: 304422310
      Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 15:31
The league was created as a 14 man league. We played with 13 last year, and we have already lost two owners (Khahan and taxman). I wont consider continuing the league with less than 8 managers but would like to get back to 14. So, if you know anyone who might be interested, have them contact me at the blue link or post here or in the recruiting thread I created.

Meanwhile, lets get a roll call going, I need to know who is in for this year.

I am in
3 Bean
      ID: 304422310
      Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 15:35
The blue link
4 Mudville 9
      ID: 22138813
      Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 15:37
I'm in
      ID: 3217815
      Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 16:07
      ID: 22129815
      Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 16:29
      ID: 161118314
      Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 16:39
8 el fatador
      ID: 28132816
      Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 17:32
      ID: 5972117
      Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 17:39
      ID: 029463114
      Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 19:31
Upon review....I will stay in for another season

      ID: 4015628
      Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 21:17
I'm out. Right now since its a keeper league the system won't let me drop my team. Once you have a replacement please invite them to take it over. If not, please use commish settings to drop me before you start the draft. Best of luck to everybody.
      ID: 304422310
      Tue, Feb 09, 2021, 13:38
Last Year's Standings:

1 WG
2 VampireWeekend
3 Nap's Tater Tatis
4 Taxman Out
5 fear the monkey
6 Bean's Blacksox
7 Mudville 9
8 Thumpers
9 Crack Babies
10 The Power of Lemke
11 Khahan's Keepers
12 C1's Stocking Feat
13 Super Twins
      ID: 39230821
      Tue, Feb 09, 2021, 14:03
I am unfortunately out as posted at the end of last season. Best of luck to you all.
      ID: 304422310
      Tue, Feb 09, 2021, 14:15
So far we have 8 returning managers, 2 non-returning (Khahan and Thumper) and one open slot (Team 14). Still waiting to hear from:

1 WG
10 The Power of Lemke (artofmonk)
13 Super Twins (wiggs)

16 Eric Wiggins
      ID: 04991311
      Tue, Feb 09, 2021, 14:57
in- Just an FYI i do not check this page much during non baseball times. If there is anything you need from me please email me
      ID: 4119915
      Tue, Feb 09, 2021, 16:10
      ID: 89402220
      Tue, Feb 09, 2021, 17:29
      ID: 304422310
      Tue, Feb 09, 2021, 20:17
Well, we heard from everyone now. We have 11 returning and we can look to add three new managers, So, it looks like this is a go this year.

Per the schedule in <1> above, we will continue to recruit until 1 MAR. So, hit up your friends.

If anyone would like to discuss rule changes or post trade bait, this would be the time for that.

Welcome back everyone.
20el fatador
      ID: 28132816
      Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 16:03
Hey y'all. Sorry for confusion. My name on thread is el fatador but my team name on site is Crack Babies.
Already checked in as in.
      ID: 304422310
      Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 17:47
Yeah, did the reconciliation there el fatador. My count in <19> is correct.
      ID: 304422310
      Fri, Feb 12, 2021, 11:59
I have set up the draft at Draft Time. Please sign up using the instructions below:

To sign up for your league draft, please go to the Draft Registration page and click the "Join Draft" button.
You will need a username and password to register for your draft. If you do not have a username and password, you can register for one at the Registration page.
If the Draft Registration Page above does not work, go to, click the "Join a Draft" button, and enter the Draft Password: 7R7J4R6H3J
      ID: 304422310
      Fri, Feb 12, 2021, 12:17
I have two simple requests that I hope you all can help me with.

1) Go to DraftTime and log on.
2) At the top you'll see a link to "Edit Account", click that
3) Click "Edit Real Name"
4) Make your "Real Name" your Rotoguru Handle (eg. Bean)

This will help significantly in putting your players in the correct team FOR ALL LEAGUES you use Draft Time for.

Another thing that would help, is if you must change your team name from year to year in Yahoo, put your rotoguru handle in your team name (eg. Bean's Senators).

The reason for these requests are obvious to anyone who has commished using Draft Time before. Please make my life and that of your other commissioners easier.

      ID: 304422310
      Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 11:46
We have a twelfth manager, Philsphan.

There are still two potential slots to be filled. If you have a friend who is interested, have them post here.

If Philsphan is our only additon, he will have his choice of Khahan's or Thumqer's team. IF we get another, we will flip for who gets first choice. If we get two more, we'll random choice order, last pick gets an expansion team with no keepers and first pick each round.
      ID: 281532617
      Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 18:53
Great work with this so far and pushing for recruits. Looking forward to finishing second to WG again...
      ID: 304422310
      Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 13:46
Still need gurudan and artofmonk to sign up for Draft Time. See <22> above.
      ID: 304422310
      Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 14:35
Today is the last day we will be accepting new managers. So, if you have someone who is on the fence, let them know they need to post here today.

Some other left over business is the lottery for draft order. I talked with Khahan about how it has been done historically. Bottom four finishers are put in a random order.

Since Khahan's bottom four team is vacant, and I won't know if it will be liquidated yet, I'll do the lottery tomorrow morning at the earliest.

I am going to create a separate thread for keeper declaration after the draft order is set. As a reminder Keeper Deadline is 15 MAR at 11:59 PM PST.
      ID: 304422310
      Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 18:33
Ran the lottery, results should have been sent to the four managers at their Draft Time e-mail. For you four, you should see an ordered list of 8 teams, four of which are named "Ignore" (the site does random draft orders for 8 teams minimum).

The resultant draft order is:

1) Super Twins
2) The Power of Lemke
3) Crack Babies
4) C1's Stocking Feat
5) Philsphan (Thumpers team)
6) Mudville 9
7) Bean's Blacksox
8) fear the monkey
9) Taxman Out
10) Nap's Tater Tatis
11) VampireWeekend
12) WG

      ID: 304422310
      Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 19:37

Deadline for keeper submission is 11:59PM PST on 15 March.

I have started a keeper thread. Post only your official keepers in that thread, no shameless ads for your extras, questions about the process or anything else please. Post that BS here instead, so nobody has to weed through that stuff to find your official keeper declaration.

You may update your keepers in the keeper thread by posting a new list. So, I suggest you post something ASAP, and update it later if you'd like. That way you don't end up with no keepers because you procrastinated.

There is no need to declare keepers in Yahoo, I will ignore it anyway.
32 WG
      ID: 89402220
      Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 01:43
Have a few leftover keeper options if anyone interested, open to a pick or 2 for 1 with a keeper:
09 - Ian Happ
13 - Dylan Bundy
19 - Drew Pomeranz
      ID: 304422310
      Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 10:11
Have not posted keepers yet:

The Power of Lemke
Crack Babies
C1's Stocking Feat
Nap's Tater Tatis
34el fatador
      ID: 28132816
      Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 10:32
Crack Babies will post today or tomorrow. Was helping someone move this weekend so a little tied up.
      ID: 52235810
      Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 11:35
Was helping someone move this weekend so a little tied up.

Well you weren't helping me. But my move has been a work in progress since September.

Anyway- I'll have mine posted in the next day or so as well.
      ID: 304422310
      Sat, Mar 13, 2021, 09:27
Less than two days to go before deadline. The following have not yet submitted keepers:

Nap's Tater Tatis
      ID: 304422310
      Sat, Mar 13, 2021, 19:24
I noticed that I posted an old constitution at the top of this thread. It was updated in <6> of last year's thread and there were a few changes. Notably there was a rule that to be keeper eligible a player must have a minimum of 50 career at bats or 20 career IP. There was much discussion about reducing these limits for last season only due to COVID, but Khahan never made any definitive ruling on it.

Though I am not finished enforcing keeper rules, I have only found one player that was declared a keeper who did not meet this criteria.

gurudan - 22 Julio Rodriguez, SEA, RF.

He has zero career ABs, so it's reasonable to declare him ineligible to be a keeper. gurudan may name another if he likes, but only declared eight keepers anyway. He's down to seven now.
      ID: 161118314
      Sat, Mar 13, 2021, 19:50
did i miss something about the keeper deadline being moved? just got an email it's been moved to tonight?
      ID: 304422310
      Sat, Mar 13, 2021, 20:19

Read <31> above.

I am loading keepers into Yahoo and Draft Time now. I had to change the deadline to today in Yahoo to make that possible. There is no requirement to declare keepers in Yahoo. You should declare your keepers in the provided Rotoguru keeper thread for 8 Men Out.
      ID: 161118314
      Sat, Mar 13, 2021, 20:22
got it. didn't see anything about the deadline changing, so i was confused.
      ID: 161118314
      Mon, Mar 15, 2021, 22:25
is there a chance to open the draft up now so we could more easily review everything? way easier to see it in that format than a scatter shot of postings -

no clock, but no reason to not open the draft now?
      ID: 304422310
      Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 07:26
Draft has started. Let me know if you see any issues with your team or draft picks ASAP.
      ID: 304422310
      Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 09:57
Right now, all of your keepers are loaded into Yahoo. You can see them at "Draft Results". If you see an error, let me know ASAP.

As a side benefit of my doing this, every player that I have assigned to a team is removed from the available players in the Players Tab in Yahoo. You may find this useful as a draft tool.

As the draft progresses, I will load drafted players in Draft Time to your teams in Yahoo. I'll try to do that a few times each day, but will almost certainly do it before I go to bed each night.

Please check the Yahoo draft results periodically and let me know if you see any errors in your team. Amongst other things, it will help to keep that players tab a useful draft tool.
45Art of monk
      ID: 33224323
      Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 10:07
I am missing my first rd pick, which should be the second pick in the draft. Bean thank you for all of your work
      ID: 04991311
      Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 10:13
I just picked and noticed Art is missing his 1st pick. I have emailed Bean
      ID: 304422310
      Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 10:36
Draft Paused, give me a bit to see if Fred at Draft Time can help me. He'll likely reset the draft which will give me a chance to fix keepers.

I am guessing that I accidentally put Mondesi against 1.02, then found the mistake and didn't do something to restore the pick. I see one for C1-NRB, put his #24 against 20.04 then fixed it.

First time I have done a draft like this.
      ID: 352221313
      Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 10:43
I am sure it is a lot of work to enter all of the keepers in. I tried to contact you as soon as I saw it.
      ID: 04991311
      Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 10:56
All Good Bean- thank you for doing it. I just was letting you know
      ID: 304422310
      Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 12:37
OK, this one was tricky for Fred, but he fixed it for me. I made Artofmonk's pick for him and notified C1-NRB that its his turn. Hopefully, the rest of the draft will be on autopilot.
      ID: 304422310
      Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 18:06
I've loaded draft picks through the 2nd round to Yahoo now.
      ID: 199351222
      Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 14:38
I'm away from good access right now (lots of things going on today).
I'll pick later this afternoon. I'm just thankful for no clock yet.
Sorry for the delay.
      ID: 22291610
      Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 16:14
I'm done. Thanks for your patience, everyone.
      ID: 22291610
      Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 17:05
I'm done. Thanks for your patience, everyone.
      ID: 422219
      Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 18:33
I would like to request an investigation into how the defending champion was able to select Franco, Hayes, and Bohm with his first three picks
      ID: 161118314
      Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 08:10
I would like to request an investigation into how the defending champion was able to select Franco, Hayes, and Bohm with his first three picks

There's a reason he's the defending champion.

I'd also like to launch an investigation into how one of our owners was able to draft Mountcastle, Sanchez, Torkelson, and Vaughn, with his first four picks.

      ID: 04991311
      Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 11:15
WG and Tree were able to do that because their teams are stacked. I had a lot of rebuilding to do so I took established players, couldnt take the same risks.
      ID: 304422310
      Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 12:55
Ironically, these Dynasty Leagues are very often ended by someone creating a Dynasty. We started with 14 teams, we are down to 12 now.

Its all a question of parity guys. If you want more parity, the simplest thing is just have less keepers.

Personally I would prefer to have far less emphasis on stockpiling hot prospects. I hate it when half the managers are perpetually planning for the future and not really even playing the game in the present. Increase the keeper minimums to 300 AB and 75 IP (vs the current 50 AB and 20 IP), and you will reduce that significantly.

Want to reduce the effect of non-playing sandbagging? Add a rule for minimum AB and IP each season, with draft order penalties.

It's your league, we all have an equal voice. Would love to hear everyone's thoughts on these topics as well as others you may think of. We can start planning for next season now.
      ID: 161118314
      Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 10:29
Personally I would prefer to have far less emphasis on stockpiling hot prospects.

I hate it when half the managers are perpetually planning for the future and not really even playing the game in the present.

i hate it when managers think other managers who have different strategies aren't playing the game in the present.

Last season, WG drafted hot prospects Wander Franco, Zac Gallen, MacKenzie Gore, Joey Bart and others. He won the league.

Vampire Weekend grabbed Nick Solak, Evan White, Dylan Carlson, Nate Pearson, and others. He took second place.

I drafted Luis Robert, Max Fried, Carter Kieboom, Willie Calhoun, Alex Bohm, and Nick Madrigal, and others. I came in third place.

The thing about a league like this - one where you lose draft picks depending on who you keep - planning for the future, while playing in the present is an absolutely critical part of this game.

Another critical part is who you're keeping and who you're cutting. I didn't have a spot for Bohm, so i had to let him go, and WG took advantage.

Having the foresight to grab players like Tatis in the 7th or Tucker in the 13th is a key to winning.

Someone like Tarik Skubal should never have been around in the 22nd round.

Change those minimums, and you're essentially destroying the very essence of a game where losing draft picks is a key component - this entire aspect of this game is why i play in this league - if you want a league where these things don't matter, there are millions of those around - there's not a lot of these.

      ID: 04991311
      Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 10:49
i dont see a problem with the way the draft went down. my thought is that maybe we need to bump keepers up after each season. You get a stud in the last round and you keep them there for ever. Most leagues will bump a keeper 1 or 2 rounds each season. That could change things a bit.
      ID: 304422310
      Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 18:55
Accidentally dropped McKenzie thinking I was working on my roster in another league where I retained rights if I had dropped him. I've corrected the mistake.
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