Subject: Gurupie 20 - 2021 Regular Season Discussion
Posted by: Species
- SuperDude [07724916] Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 16:08
Congratulations to everyone for a mostly uneventful Supplemental Draft. I thank you all for your diligence as well as praise you for your expertise. Everyone is damned well up to date on rotations, position battles, prospects and injuries because players did not fall in this draft. Like at all.
Because of our slow draft process and how we pick players up from the FA list during our draft, it does not allow us to place the undrafted players on to waivers, which is standard for our league. Our workaround is to re-input the draft after the fact, after which all undrafted players go on waivers. Tosh will be working on that TODAY, so you may receive notice that the "draft has been entered".
Once we have all been notified that the draft has been re-entered (most likely via email, but either Tosh or I will post here to this effect as well), our year begins in earnest and all normal mechanics of the Fantasy Baseball year are open for business -- with the exception of our Keeper Trade Moratorium. Per our rules, players in your original 9 keepers may not be traded for 30 days from the Keeper Deadline. As such, Keepers may not be traded until April 13th.
Another league matter for me to correct would be the 2022 draft grids. Sadly for Jon Dowd, Code Toothpick and Vampireweekend, Meatwads in particular mortgaged the farm during his 2019 season. Those trades need to be honored, so I will be updating the draft grid to show what picks each of you have to work with as we start our 2021 season. I will do so in the same manner in which we distributed the 2021 draft picks....whatever Greggo / JD / Meatwads had left gets distributed evenly between VW / JD / CT.
Best of luck this season. May the best manager win!!!
Only the 50 most recent replies are currently shown. Click on this text to display hidden posts as well. [Lengthy or complex threads may require a slight delay before updating.]
470
Lyman
ID: 2910361920 Sun, Sep 26, 2021, 22:57
I can say from experience, Fantrax is a nightmare to setup. I ran a long-time keeper league that voted to move from Yahoo to Fantrax and the switch didn't survive spring training before we unanimously voted to move back to Yahoo. Fantrax has some really nice features, but a lot of bugs too.
I personally think prospects being mistakenly added will be less a problem in 2022. Next year's prospect list will more truly reflect the top-100 prospects in baseball. Since we didn't have a prospect draft this season, we had some sketchy prospects like Tsutsugo and Kim and quite a few others that would have been left unprotected had we drafted in 2021. We're going to be replacing a lot of "scrubs" and MiLB graduates with the best players from two MLB drafts, and should have little problem distinguishing the Torkelsons, Veens and Leiters, et al, as owned prospects.
471
GO
ID: 33543812 Mon, Sep 27, 2021, 13:26
All we need to do is mark them as keepers... and then they get the little K logo next to them. We pick before the players get to yahoo right? so we can designate them as keeper. Let me know if I'm not thinking that order through correctly.
Anyone else get the survey from Yahoo on the popups? I put in there 5 times a way to highlight prospects or ability for Commish to block out certain players.
472
Lyman
ID: 206491223 Mon, Sep 27, 2021, 16:31
Not 100 percent positive, but I'm pretty sure players lose the "K" once they hit waivers. Unfortunately, I don't think you're able to mark players/prospects in the free agent pool as "K" keepers.
473
GO
ID: 531581023 Mon, Sep 27, 2021, 19:48
You have the option to let them keep the K or not once they are released. So thats a non issue.
So the question to me is timing. And assuming those names are in the database at the time keepers are declared will be the big obstacle i think. Cause thats when the K gets tagged.
474
Tosh Dude
ID: 057721710 Mon, Sep 27, 2021, 20:43
[473] -- We are only able to add the 'keeper' notation onto players on day zero ... when the commish adds them to a roster ... before the league is activated.
Once activated, we are unable to add the marker to anyone not on a roster. Nor add them later. So 10th keepers are able to have a 'K' since they are on a roster on day zero. Anybody not on a roster is unable to receive the 'K'.
475
Nerfherders
ID: 56261418 Tue, Sep 28, 2021, 00:39
One workaround would be to load all the prospects onto each team's roster after the prospect draft, mark them K, start (or finish) the Yahoo draft, and then release them back to the FA pool.
476
WG
ID: 89402220 Tue, Sep 28, 2021, 15:02
Didn't get a chance to before, but wanted to say that it has been a pleasure playing with mjd in this league and other Gurupie leagues over the years. Always good conversation and competition, and to echo Fosten's words, he will be missed here. Enjoy your fantasy sports retirement, and best of luck in all else!
Also, a hearty welcome to Bobo! Looks like mjd left you with some nice, young pieces. Good luck!
477
Species SuperDude
ID: 07724916 Tue, Sep 28, 2021, 19:07
Six days to go!
Best of luck to the contenders down the stretch.
Please note: Vampire Weekend will be giving up his spot in G20 for various personal reasons. We will need one additional replacement. Please check with your friends and other leaguemates.
Thank you and thanks to everyone for remaining active.
481
Tree
ID: 161118314 Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 08:30
minimums suck. they're nothing more than another version of a race to the bottom, as evidenced by the above acknowledged strategy to get as close to minimums as possible without going over, in an effort to reduce counting stats.
we've seen this season how hitting those minimums is affecting the race to the top - particularly in the name of the scarcity of starting pitching for contending teams.
enough is enough.
down with minimums.
482
Lyman
ID: 2910361920 Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 09:46
Daniel Lynch is owned by Donkey Kong and needs dropped.
483
Blue Hen
ID: 410452818 Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 15:29
Tree, we all hate minimums. Do you have a proposal with how to replace them? The current system, while flawed, is tangible- don’t reach numbers, get demerits, get worse picks. The previous system prevented tanking by requiring that teams had to start someone in every slot every day, except off days (couldn’t just leave a slot open). But that was nearly impossible to monitor and there were no stated penalties. You can’t just call somebody out for something unless there’s a stated penalty.
Proposals: - Playing someone else’s prospect in an active slot results in a demerit, one demerit per day they are played. - Use the lottery order for all rounds and flatten out the weights. - Retain the minimum/demerit system but reduce minimums.
484
Tree
ID: 571142323 Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 08:09
Decrease minimums for position players, particular catchers.
Get rid of IP minimums for pitchers altogethr, or reduce them to the point where they're not interfering in a pennant race.
The law of unintended consequences is that people racing to hit minimums are reducing streaming opportunities for those trying to win, and that should never be.
485
Tree
ID: 571142323 Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 08:17
Calling up prospect Daulton Varsho.
486
Species SuperDude
ID: 07724916 Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 13:13
Tree - I am all for what the league wants, and your voice has rang loud and clear on the issue of minimums. But please do pay close attention to blue hen's post #483. blue hen actually talks some sense here.
Before minimums and demerits, the rule involved self-policing (read: mostly commissioner policing) team rosters with the only requirement being to field a full lineup. Or, better said, having your roster full of active players. Active players could be platoon players, pinch hitters or defensive replacements....they did not have to be anything approaching a full time player.
-- Imagine your outrage if a third or more of this league had a third less games played -- Imagine your outrage if a third of more of this league had a third less innings -- Imagine your outrage if a third or more of this league had rosters of unproductive players but there was no rule to stop them
Your comment of: Get rid of IP minimums for pitchers altogethr, or reduce them to the point where they're not interfering in a pennant race.
The law of unintended consequences is that people racing to hit minimums are reducing streaming opportunities for those trying to win, and that should never be.
....is completely backwards.
If you had been thinking strategically from Day 1, you would have realized the competition for innings and games in September and focused more energy on successful streams in April and May where there is less competition. A game played or inning pitched in April is just as valuable as one in September. In fact, due to less competition, one might say they were more valuable.
So, don't cast blame towards a rule inconveniencing you in trying to make up ground. Look in the mirror - all of the GP and IP were there for you. I doubt you would be making this same argument if you were not contending.
487
WG
ID: 89402220 Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 14:39
Think most agree that next year the IP minimum may need to be reduced some, but agree with both BH and Species mostly. A bit funny to see BMD (rightfully IMO) asking for participation in one post and Tree impugning it in another, though I acknowledge motivations may be different relating to each issue. Also agree with what BH said a few posts ago; the minimums have been there all year and it was up to each manager to act accordingly in attempting to satisfy them, such as taking into account possible injuries and a race for arms towards the end of the season. No real room for complaint IMO that a largely foreseeable occurrence is occurring. And of course, still don't think we have heard a better solution to the 'policing' issue than sticking with the minimums but maybe amending them somewhat... in fact, even that doesn't properly address the issue BMD brought up, so perhaps something more stringent rather than less stringent needs to be done.
488
darkside
ID: 10944214 Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 15:44
Agree with Species, WG, blue hen…minimums aren’t great, but way better than the alternative. Reducing pitching minimums makes sense.
In other news, for the first time…ever…I maxed out at positions. Guess I was lucky with injuries, just unlucky that those healthy dudes sucked.
Hate to see mjd go. Been great playing with you. Welcome Bobo (any chance that’s a Simpsons reference?). Thanks, all, for another fun season and good luck to those still scrapping for the title or a money slot!
489
Blue Hen
ID: 410452818 Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 20:06
Congrats beastiemiked! As we know, it take so much to win this league- setting up keepers, drafting well, waiver work, and in-season trades. You handled all of those pretty flawlessly, with some of the bad draft picks hidden by volume. Well done! Scarily, you’ve got a pretty good team coming back. Welcome back to the podium!
Congrats to GO and Tree on great years as well, and also the others who were in the mix. Great year for g20, lots of trades and an exciting finish.
Let’s get trading season started! Who wants Gleyber Torres?!
490
Lyman
ID: 206491223 Sun, Oct 03, 2021, 22:31
Congrats, BMD! You really were in command all season, somehow overcoming long periods without Top-10 overall starters in Flaherty and Bauer. You made it clear early on that you were going for it by dealing in mid-April next year's first rounder for McGee, and later made some sweet moves to add veterans Morton and Wainwright to a depleted rotation. Very methodical approach all season long in using every last one of your available roster spots, despite a N/A tag next to Bauer's name. Masterful job!
Congrats to Tree and GO, too. You guys kept the pressure on BMD right down to the final few days. There was one point, I think Thursday night, where Tree had passed GO and was a mere 3.5 points out of first place. And GO, of course, took the lead with only eight days to go after BMD had held the top spot seemingly all season long. Both of you really went after it hard and deserve a hand!
491
GO
ID: 531581023 Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 07:14
Congrats to bmd! My G20 triple crown bid fell short... always next year.
492
Tree
ID: 161118314 Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 07:54
Mazel Tov BMD - you had one helluva season.
After taking over first place in late May, you commanded the top spot for most of the rest of the way, relinquishing only a few times, and never for more than a couple of days before taking it back over.
You made all the right moves, and your second generation superstars are going to help keep you on top for a long time.
But some of us have second generation superstars of our own, so we're not going to make you defending your crown easy. :D
Seriously though, congrats. A championship well deserved.
493
Fosten
ID: 38740109 Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 10:17
Can we talk about that hot photo finish for 5th/6th? Dang. Kudos to Jon Dowd and Tosh for passing WG and myself over the final week. Finishing 7th is the worst of all possible scenarios for me. I missed out on the money and now have to draft behind WG in every round next year. Doh! Congrats to bmd and everyone else on a great season. Thanks for all the fun.
494
Thumqer
ID: 39230821 Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 11:39
Congrats BMD! What a master class of a season- despite some heavy competition.
Congrats to GO and Tree as well for putting up a good fight till the end.
495
Guru
ID: 330592710 Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 12:38
Prize pool payouts:
First place: BMD, $80 Second: Great One, $50 Third: Tree, $35 Fourth: Thumpers, $25 Fifth: Jon Dowd - did not opt in to the pool this year, so no payout. Can still opt in for 2022. Sixth: Tosh, $20
$15 prize money is forfeited, and will go to the trophy fund.
Will notify each winner shortly to make arrangements for payout and or leaving funds on acct.
496
Species SuperDude
ID: 07724916 Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 13:32
CONGRATULATIONS beastiemiked for your second G20 title! This was extremely hard fought, and you overcame a ridiculous amount of hardships, 3 of your 4 1st round picks being complete busts (Jordan Hicks, Archie Bradley and Dylan Bundy), injuries (Tatis, Flaherty, others), Bauer's brush with the law and the hard charging Tree and Great One to win. An incredible achievement.
While it helps to have the equivalent of THREE MVPs on your roster in Vlad, Semien (WTF!) and Tatis, when the $hit hits the fan you have to have the balls to go for it. Trades for Morton (he was a stud - you're welcome), Belt, Nimmo, Canha, Miley and others I've missed stabilized lineups and rotations and allowed him to ride his prized stallions to victory.
Great One had his greatest G20 season ever on a stable of stud keepers and an outstanding draft. Buehler, Harper, Devers, Kimbrel, and even Montas were all horses. Aaron Nola's ERA wasn't helpful but top flight WHIP and K contributed. Despite not having a first rounder, he destroyed the 2nd round in landing Stroman, Dick Rod and IKF before nabbing Walsh in the 3rd....but the kicker was 30/30 Cedric Mullens in the 12th after already nabbing Kennedy in the 10th. Some rotten luck in Voit and Moustakas missing most of the year was unable to be offset by trades for Cruz, Myers, Crawford and Pablo Lopez. Incredible year GO!
Tree came from seemingly nowhere to jump into a tie for 2nd place. A strong draft, a lot of patience, maturing prospects called up (Bichette, Cease) a huge stable of supplemental draft picks and keen pickups (Adolis Garcia) propelled him to contention and an amazing second place finish. If only his shortsidedness in considering Rutschman for Scherzer wouldn't have blinded him, he would have won.
What a shame Thumper's health didn't allow the preaseason favorite to compete fairly this year. If there is one thing the top 3 teams all clearly indicate, it's that you need STUDS firing on all cylinders to win. Losing Ronald Acuna, having Cody Bellinger forget how to hit while Trevor Story played all year like he was on the road all season derailed his season pretty quickly. He will be back and better than ever next year.
Props to Jon Dowd for an impressive in-the-money showing at 5th place!
More to come when I have more time, but congrats again bmd for a well-earned win. Congrats to GO and Tree for fighting to the bitter end.
Items on our agenda:
1) We need to replace Vampire Weekend (if anyone else has doubts about returning, please note them now) 2) Rule changes / discussion 3) Demerits 4) Lottery
PS - btw, this was a GREAT mlb regular season! The Giants and Dodgers took the best record in baseball down to the final day. The Yankees and Red Sox avoided a potential 4-way tie for the wild card to secure spots while the Cardinals took control of the second NL wild card spot behind a 17-game winning streak! Overall COVID had it's spots here and there, but overall it was a GREAT baseball season.
Best of luck to all this offseason. I have players on the block!! :D
497
Tosh Dude
ID: 057721710 Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 15:54
Congrats BMD on your title, and thanks to all for a great season.
Back in the day ... I had Buster Posey as a prospect. I traded him for Miguel Cabrera, who eventually was traded for someone else.
It was fun to have both Posey and Miggy have regular roles on my daily rosters this season. Thanks old guys!
498
Tree
ID: 161118314 Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 16:17
If only his shortsidedness in considering Rutschman for Scherzer wouldn't have blinded him, he would have won.
I'm not so sure about that. lol but i appreciate the premise.
499
beastiemiked
ID: 2410291117 Tue, Oct 05, 2021, 01:25
Thanks everyone!
It was a photo finish coming down to the last few days. Glad it ended when it did because my team was held together with superglue.
Great One and Tree could’ve easily won if 1-2 things went differently.
Bryce Harper was giving me nightmares the last two months. Mullins and Buehler were incredibly consistent and dominant.
Salvy was incredible and that combo of Urias and Burnes was quite the 1-2 punch. Adolis Garcia picking up 5 stolen bases in the last two weeks was hard for me to watch.
Thumpers would’ve been right there with us if Acuna doesn’t go down or his pitchers suddenly just stopped winning games despite pitching well.
That finish for 5th and 6th was nuts. Definitely more competitive than I’ve ever seen it. WG and Foster tried everything they could but ultimately Soto/Castellanos and Marte/Ranger Suarez were just too much.
It was great seeing other teams with nothing to fight for besides pride(and those minimums) continue to make great pickups. Speaks volumes about the competitive nature of this league.
Huge thank you to Species, Tosh and Guru. Without you all this league wouldn’t be possible.
500
Matt G
ID: 576318 Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 11:15
So here is the thing, I tried. I was in 7th place or something around there in late June early July I don't remember exactly, I knew it was flimsy and sure enough few key injuries and I was done. End of July I traded Melancon and it became a race to the bottom. However; I set my lineup most dates, I'll be honest things got busy here with the kid and work and other things so I missed a few days.
I honestly thought I was doing well, I was swapping Vazquez in to C and 1B when I had those guys missing games, I picked up Wendle to fill the IF when I needed it. I didn't want last place and I didn't want to "not try."
But September came along and I did the math and I was on pace for 1364 hitter games and something like 1240 IP.
I managed as closely as I could in September, swapped in and out, got my Games to project to 1376 one day and then down the next. I didn't add anyone because honestly anyone I wanted to add was for a spot start to pick a game up and they were on waivers and I'd have to wait, plus I didn't want to kill the race you guys were having and I didn't want to accidently pick up a prospect, I didn't mark them as scouts because I use that as a way to scout players.
Anyhow, I have 1364 games for hitters and 1218 for pitchers.
So I'm going to get Demerits, you know it doesn't make me wanna play in a league when I tried, I'm clearly rebuilding so I'm holding guys who are next year and beyond and while a mad race to end the year did nothing for me and I didn't want to affect the real race ended up costing me a chance to really rebuild.
Minimums suck, I'm on the fence for next year because of this.
501
Tree
ID: 161118314 Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 12:43
So I'm going to get Demerits, you know it doesn't make me wanna play in a league when I tried, I'm clearly rebuilding so I'm holding guys who are next year and beyond and while a mad race to end the year did nothing for me and I didn't want to affect the real race ended up costing me a chance to really rebuild.
this was my argument a few years back as i failed to make minimums, in an effort to build my team...these minimums really can screw with that.
502
Nerfherders
ID: 56261418 Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 13:29
The good news is that you'll only get 1 demerit and we get the first 2 waived without penalty.
I was in the same boat on IP, but because my hitting was good, I knew I only had to get to 1170 IP, which still meant streaming for two weeks. I think I might have gotten to 1185 by the end.
503
Blue Hen
ID: 410452818 Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 18:51
One thing to keep in mind- that’s kind of the point. In the old days, someone would pick up a teenage prospect, never play all their slots, and finish last. With minimums, you have to make sacrifices, hold some spots for guys who will play, strategy just like the guys at the top. Believe me- I didn’t want to drop Bobby Dalbec (ugh), but I don’t think you guys wanted me to finish with like 700 innings. So I dropped Dalbec and picked up Tyler Gilbert. Or maybe Justin Steele. That’s how these leagues work- maximize your value within constraints destined to frustrate everyone. But that’s the rules, and I haven’t found a better system.
504
GO
ID: 33543812 Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 09:27
BH is right, needs to be minimums... and I think we can all agree, just scale them down so they can reasonably be hit. Especially IP cause this opener thing was unforeseen at the time we created the # of innings.
505
Thumqer
ID: 39230821 Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 12:09
Agree there should be a minimum, but lowered.
Also never too early to start the Send Saves to Sun parade this offseason!
506
Species SuperDude
ID: 07724916 Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 13:04
Saving 2021 standings for posterity:
Rank Team Points Pts Change Pts Back Waiver Moves 1 logo beastiemiked 170.5 0.5 - 20 242 2 logo GO's Black Sox 166 3 4.5 15 62 3 logo FW House Martins 162 -1 8.5 19 40 4 logo Thumpers 145.5 -2 25 11 140 5 logo Jon Dowd 131.5 -0.5 39 9 51 6 logo U Can't Tosh This 129.5 -0.5 41 12 83 7 logo Munson Mobsters 126.5 1.5 44 3 49 8 logo Wazaaap Guy 125 0 45.5 18 278 9 logo Endangered Species 115 -1 55.5 17 134 10 logo youngroman's Luschen 108.5 -2 62 1 47 10 logo RotoGuru 108.5 -1.5 62 8 41 12 logo darkside of the moon 106 -0.5 64.5 4 74 13 logo Code Toothpick 88 2 82.5 7 57 14 logo Nerfherders 82.5 0.5 88 5 52 15 logo Blue Hen 68.5 -0.5 102 14 279 16 logo Donkey Kong 61 0 109.5 2 30 17 logo Matthew's Team 55.5 0 115 13 16 18 logo VampireWeekend 53 0 117.5 10 43 19 logo Marty McFlyer 50 1 120.5 6 139 20 logo Lyman Bostock 10 47 1 123.5 16 239
507
Species SuperDude
ID: 07724916 Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 13:16
My accounting of demerits:
GP: Donkey Kong: 1196 games = 179 short / 15 = 11 demerits Code Toothpick: 1303 games = 72 short /15 = 4 Matt G: 1364 games = 11 short = 0
IP: Species: 1199.66 = 1/3 inning = 0 Guru: 1186 = 14 innings = 0 Nerfherders: 1185.1 = 14.2 innings short = 0 (how is THAT for roster planning!) youngroman: 1159.2 = 40 innings short = 2
Final Tally: Donkey Kong 11 demerits less 2 waived = 9 Code Toothpick: 4 demerits less 2 waived = 2 youngroman: 2 demerits less 2 waived = 0
508
Nerfherders
ID: 56261418 Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 12:21
I had assumed if you were under the minimums at all you would get a demerit. In other words, if you were 1 - 15 below, that would be 1 demerit, and 15-30 below would = 2 demerits, etc. I guess that's just my interpretation of the rule - I don't know for sure if it was ever implemented that way.
509
Blue Hen
ID: 410452818 Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 23:47
Agree with the previous post.
510
DK6000
ID: 54601611 Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 16:51
[500] As this year's demerit leader, I completely agree with Matt G's sentiment. I was actively engaged this year and definitely not trying to tank, but chose to hold multiple injured or non-active players (Clevinger, Edward Cabrera, etc.) that I hope will help my rebuild next year. I chose to keep these guys rather than continually streaming low end starters to reach a minimum.
I am fine with minimums as a rule, but combining them with a rule that non-keepers can't be placed on IL can make them very difficult to hit if you're trying to hold guys with upside. Understand I'm relatively new to the league, but I'd support (1) reducing minimums and (2) expanding who can be placed on the IL.
511
Species SuperDude
ID: 07724916 Thu, Oct 14x, 2021, 23:33
508 and 509 are correct. My error.
But it doesn't change the ultimate result, does it? Those that were barely short have their demerits waived, so I think we are still good.
I will get to updating the roster grid / asking Guru to run the lottery when I have some free time (something I seem to completely lack lately).
512
Nerfherders
ID: 56261418 Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 13:15
Everyone gets one more demerit, so those in the final list get one more.
Final Tally: Donkey Kong 12 demerits less 2 waived = 10 Code Toothpick: 5 demerits less 2 waived = 3 youngroman: 3 demerits less 2 waived = 1
513
Blue hen
ID: 410452818 Sun, Oct 17, 2021, 11:24
Before we run the lottery, let’s make sure the order of events is finalized- running tiebreakers, running demerits, running lottery. One demerit team is in a tie, and two demerit teams are close enough to impact each other.
514
Fosten
ID: 511110812 Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 13:12
Aint it about time for the g20 hot stove to start getting hot? I've got like 23 keepers to trade and mlb.com has ghosted all my active players. https://www.mlb.com/news/a-note-about-our-website-content Cold man, very cold. Anyone have a key to the furnace room? I think we're locked out.
515
Thumqer
ID: 39230821 Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 14:13
I’ve been in a dark room muttering about my dislike for Saves this whole time
516
Tree
ID: 161118314 Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 15:20
This is the winter of my save discontent.
DOWN WITH SAVES!
517
Lyman
ID: 2910361920 Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 23:09
Seriously though, it's kind of ironic complaining about saves, yet not about wins. Neither sucks any more or less than the other.
518
Thumqer
ID: 39230821 Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 15:55
I think it’s just that there’s a straightforward alternative to saves- saves+holds. What’s the alternative to wins? quality starts maybe?
519
Tree
ID: 571142323 Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 16:47
The main opposition for me regarding saves is the high premium it places on a relative handful of players that are good for only one stat.
At least wins are attainable by anyone taking the mound. QS is not longer a valid stat to me, since many teams don't intend to have a QS, just a guy opening the game.
It's why saves + holds is the Way to go.
Rate this thread:
If you wish, you may rate this thread on scale of 1-5. Ratings should indicate how valuable or interesting you believe this thread would be to other users of this forum. A '5' means that this thread is a 'must read'. A '1' means that this is a complete waste of time.
If you have previously rated this thread, rating it again will delete your previous rating.
If you do not want to rate this thread, but want to see how others have rated it, then click the button without entering a rating, or else click here.