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Subject: A new idea for a MLB Keeper League
Posted by: Bean
- [12552510] Mon, Feb 13, 2023, 11:29
Parity for keeper leagues is always problematic. You can always figure on as many as half the managers will tank.
How bout this? A survival keeper league set up to last a specific number of years. Each year a set number of teams at the bottom are eliminated and their players returned to the FA pool. Winning the league each year may be satisfying, but survival is the bigger goal. Tanking could help you reap rewards, but it comes with great risk.
So let's say you start with 16 teams and three are eliminated each year. Year two would start with 13 teams, year three would start with 10, year four with seven, and the fifth and final year would start with four teams.
Intrigued?
Your thoughts, please |
| 1 | Perm Dude
ID: 28128412
Mon, Feb 13, 2023, 17:31
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With baseball, this very well could be an interesting tension because of how long some players take to develop.
Kind of interested in how the new teams would be brought in--sounds like they will either start without keepers, or have to pick keepers from the FA pool? If the number of keepers are small this might not put those new teams in too deep of a hole, but it might be interesting from a strategy standpoint.
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| 2 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Mon, Feb 13, 2023, 18:09
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If enough are interested we could get consensus on the details. But yes, would have the usual snake draft the first year of the league.
The way I envisioned it, there would never be any new teams added, there is just attrition until one team is declared the winner. In the example I used, five years and we are done. Could redraft and start over again however, but many managers may have disappeared by then.
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| 3 | Matt G
ID: 37931259
Tue, Feb 14, 2023, 08:52
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Interested for sure. The final year with 4 teams would be essentially all STUDS.
I'm intrigued by the concept.
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| 4 | Seattle Zen
ID: 58131413
Tue, Feb 14, 2023, 14:05
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I've been thinking about this a bit. I believe there would have to be $$$ involved for without it why would people want to stick it out?
I think the plan would be improved with if you gave an extra incentive to finish in the top four. Perhaps:
Year one - top four teams are in the money, bottom four teams are out. When you finish in the top four, you are given a golden ticket that allows you to stay in the league until the end.
Year two - 12 teams, top four in the money and get that golden ticket. Bottom four are out unless you received a golden ticket last year.
Year three - a minimum of eight teams, top four in the $$$ and golden ticket (though I imagine that a few of these teams have already secured one), bottom four out but again, some of these teams may already have received a golden ticket.
Year four - probably six or seven teams, there is a greater than zero chance that there is only four. Top two in the money, any team that hasn't managed to secure a golden ticket and finishes in the bottom four is out.
Year five - winner takes all.
I don't think this works as a draft league, I think it would need to be an auction league. Maybe there is a $2/per year salary increase on each player. Keep as many as you like.
If you really want a draft league, in year two and thereafter, make each round a completely random order. Snake drafts and keeper league "reverse order of finish" drafts still incentivizes finishing low in the standings.
Big money buy in and no further contributions? Small buy in and an additional cost for each year you survive? I don't know, that's up to y'all.
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| 5 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Tue, Feb 14, 2023, 14:56
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<4>There are pros and cons to playing for $. Sure $ keeps people more involved. I would think by year 2, managers may be more focused on the braggin rights though.
Moreover, $ corrupts after all, and a team that has no chance may be more inclined to help out a buddy if there's $ involved. The pitch of the whining goes up an octave when there's $ involved too; and the sound of whining is already annoying.
Then there's collection of the $, and figuring out who will hold it, what happens if the guy holding the $ dies or disappears? Especially if there is an entry fee every year. All of these are headaches I would definitely not want to handle myself. That said, I'd play either for free, or small stakes if someone else worries about the $.
One problem with the Golden ticket thing is once you get one, you have little incentive to try at all (unless the prize money is all you play for). Once Commissioner Wonka hands you your ticket, better to just tank until the final year and improve draft position, right?
Lots of ways to reward early success without creating more tanking strategies. I don't know, maybe we can do something about that, since most don't value championships the same. Maybe, just the yearly champ gets a golden ticket, and maybe restrict how good of a draft pick he can get in out years? Maybe guarantee just one year of elimination immunity? Maybe give the champ one extra keeper in the final round?
Salary/auction could work, just don't want to go down a path that just makes the whole concept too complicated and controversial, or this will never get off the ground. If you have enough support for that, we can put that to a vote.
My goal is to have at least 8 managers who are interested. Ideally we can get 16 who will actually play this year. Seems we have four who are willing to discuss options now. Encourage your friends to join in the discussion.
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| 6 | Seattle Zen
ID: 121381014
Tue, Feb 14, 2023, 15:55
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better to just tank until the final year and improve draft position, right?
No, no, the draft cannot be the inverse of the standings at all, ever.
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| 7 | Seattle Zen
ID: 121381014
Tue, Feb 14, 2023, 15:58
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what happens if the guy holding the $ dies or disappears?
Just how much “Dateline” are you consuming Bean?
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| 8 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Tue, Feb 14, 2023, 16:02
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While I was commish of the Political League we had two deaths. Stuff happens. We are all getting older my friend.
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| 9 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Tue, Feb 14, 2023, 16:03
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<6> Yeah I see how that can work.
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| 11 | wiggs
ID: 94382010
Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 08:52
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interested
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| 12 | taxman
ID: 240332712
Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 15:52
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interested...but I am probably an age casualty
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| 13 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 16:06
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OK guys, we are starting to have a little interest, maybe we can get enough to try this year. I said I wouldn't try this, unless we have at least 8 people. We now have six who are at least interested.
If you are lurking and haven't said anything, please just post an "interested" on this thread over the next few days.
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| 14 | artofmonk
ID: 581131516
Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 17:17
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interested
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| 15 | WG
ID: 89402220
Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 18:26
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Interested
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| 16 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Thu, Feb 16, 2023, 14:26
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I have set up a league and sent invites to folks I am in a league with. Here is a link to that league.
We can work out the rules here, while we wait for others who may want to join.
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| 17 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Thu, Feb 16, 2023, 15:01
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Here are some basic rule questions to ponder:
1) How many years?
2) How many teams in final year?
3) Will we use a Golden Ticket approach? Other prizes for early success?
4) Play for cash, or no, or optional?
5) Snake draft every year, or reverse order of finish?
6) How many keepers? Static or change every year?
7) What positions, roster size, and how many IP? Static or change every year?
8) How many IL?
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| 18 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Thu, Feb 16, 2023, 15:31
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Here is a tentative schedule:
20 FEB First votes start
27 FEB Deadline for first votes/Second votes start
06 MAR Deadline for second votes
08 MAR Final Rule Set Published
10 MAR Deadline to Join
12 MAR Everyone in Yahoo and Draft Time
14 MAR Draft Starts
28 MAR Draft Ends
30 MAR Season Starts
We've got like 3 weeks to nail down the rules and recruit more. We are going to start voting on this stuff in a few days. You only get a vote if you've joined us at Yahoo.
If you have voting topics you'd like to see, that aren't in <17>, just post them in this thread.
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| 19 | gurudan
ID: 44017287
Thu, Feb 16, 2023, 19:04
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Thanks BEAN for the invitation, but I'll pass. I play with you in Eight Men Out, so I'm good.
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| 20 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Tue, Feb 21, 2023, 17:00
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OK guys, we currently have five people signed up at Yahoo, and I have said I won't play with less than eight. I have set a deadline to join us as 10 MAR. I have also stated that if you don't join Yahoo, you don't get to vote on rules. I have sent Yahoo invites to all eight who have expressed interest so far. I have also sent some invites to people I thought might be interested.
The next post is going to be the first round of voting. I will use majority rule to chose the vote winner at the deadline. I will also be the tie breaker.
So far, nobody has posted anything that they would like to vote on, if you have other things you'd like to vote on, bring them up in this thread for the next round of voting.
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| 22 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Tue, Feb 21, 2023, 17:32
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You can only vote on these topics if you have registered in the Yahoo League. Deadline to vote is 11:59 PM ET on 27 FEB 2023
Here are the voting topics and options:
1) How many years? 3, 4 or 5
2) How many teams in final year? 4, 5 or 6
3) Will we use a Golden Ticket approach? Other prizes for early success?
A) No prize or just prize money if we play for cash
B) Golden Ticket for winner each season
C) Extra keeper in final season for top three finishers
4) Play for cash, no, or optional? Cash, No Cash, or Optional
5) Snake draft every year, or reverse order of finish? Snake every year, Reverse order of draft after first year
6) How many keepers after first year? 6, 7, 8, 9 or 10.
7) How many keepers added each year, starting with year two? 0, 1, 2
8) What positions?
A) C,1B,2B,3B,SS,OFX3,DHX2,SP,RP,PX8
B) C,1B,2B,3B,SS,MI,CI,OFX4,DHX2,SP,RP,PX11
9) How many IP? 1200,1400,1600
10) Roster size? 24, 27 or 30
11) How many IL? 2,3,4,5
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| 23 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Tue, Feb 21, 2023, 17:37
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My votes:
1) 5 years
2) 4 teams
3) A
4) Optional
5) Reverse order of draft after first year
6) 8 keepers second year
7) 1 additional keeper each year
8) A
9) 1400 IP
10) 24 roster positions
11) 4 IL slots
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| 24 | wiggs
ID: 94382010
Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 13:00
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My Vote
1) 5 years
2) 4 teams
3) A
4) Cash
5) Snake
6) 6 Keepers 1st year, 2 additional every year
7) B
8) 1400
9) 27 man rosters
10) 2 IL
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| 25 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 13:08
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Make sure you join the league using this link, if you want your vote to count wiggs.
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| 26 | Seattle Zen
ID: 58131413
Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 13:41
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Thanks for the invite but not interested in adding another league to my list. Good luck
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| 27 | wiggs
ID: 94382010
Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 13:51
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Bean, Sorry- I thought i did that. In now
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| 28 | artofmonk
ID: 31142219
Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 20:04
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My Vote
1) 4 years
2) 6 teams
3) A
4) optional
5) Snake
6) 8 Keepers
7) 1 additional keeper each year
8) A
9) 1400 IP
10) 24 roster positions
11) 4 IL slots
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| 29 | Matt G
ID: 37931259
Sun, Feb 26, 2023, 13:27
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1) How many years? 4
2) How many teams in final year? 4
3) Will we use a Golden Ticket approach? Other prizes for early success?
A) No prize or just prize money if we play for cash
4) Play for cash, no, or optional? Cash
5) Snake draft every year,
6) How many keepers after first year? 6
7) How many keepers added each year, starting with year two? 1
8) What positions?
A) C,1B,2B,3B,SS,OFX3,DHX2,SP,RP,PX8
9) How many IP? 1400
10) Roster size? 30
11) How many IL? 2
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| 30 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 10:06
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Well, we did not get votes from WG or taxman. Voting is closed.
Here are the results:
1) 4 years (was split, changed my vote)
2) 4 teams in final year
3) Just prize money for years 1-4
4) Playing for cash is optional
5) Snake Draft every year
6) 7 Keepers at the end of Year 1 (split, compromise)
7) 1 additional keeper at the end of year 2 (8) and 3 (9)
8) Positions: A) C,1B,2B,3B,SS,OFX3,DHX2,SP,RP,PX8
9) 1400 IP
10) 26 roster positions (split, compromise)
11) 3 IL positions (split, compromise)
I'll give the second round of voting a shot in next post.
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| 31 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 10:45
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Didn't think we'd have a debate over a 10 category rotisserie league. These six categories are pretty standard: R, RBI, SB, K, ERA, WHIP. There are generally options for the other four, so choose:
1) OBP or AVG
2) HR or SLG
3) W or QS
4) S or S+H
5) Max limit on transactions: none, 50, 75, 100
6) Optional entry fee amount: $100, $50, $40, $30, $20, $10 per year. (Gonna select median on this one)
7) Percent of the pool for Season prizes vs Grand Champion prizes. 25%, 50%, 75%
8) Percent of pool for 1st, 2nd, 3rd.
A 100% to champ
B 75% to champ, 25% to 2nd
C 50% to champ, 33% to 2nd, 17% to 3rd
9) How is Draft Time Fee paid (make two choices with a preference)
A No Draft Time, use Live draft
B $10 fee taken out of prize pool, non cash prize participants chip in
C Bean pays first year, lowest qualifying team pays year 2-4
D Random amongst qualifiers
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| 32 | Bean
ID: 12552510
Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 10:48
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My votes:
1) OBP
2) SLG
3) W
4) S+H
5) 50
6) $20
7) 50%
8) C
9) C
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| 33 | WG
ID: 89402220
Sun, Mar 05, 2023, 23:17
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My votes:
1) AVG
2) HR
3) W
4) S
5) 100
6) $100
7) 50%
8) C
9) C
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| 34 | Matt G
ID: 37931259
Tue, Mar 07, 2023, 08:46
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1) OBP
2) HR
3) QS
4) S+H
5) none
6) $20
7) 50%
8) Percent of pool for 1st, 2nd, 3rd.
C 50% to champ, 33% to 2nd, 17% to 3rd
9) B $10 fee taken out of prize pool, non cash prize participants chip in
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