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0 Subject: Schilling's Letter to the Fans

Posted by: swami
- [477472711] Wed, Feb 14, 12:43

Found here.

Everything you are about to read, from the first "E" in everything to the "g" that ends my signature at the bottom of this letter is to be interpreted as my opinion only.

I think the best way to get this started is to get something real clear, real fast. As fans you must understand this one very important item: If there is no baseball next year, it will not be because of the players.

I was approached by a fan the other day and he asked me, "You guys gonna strike again next year?"

I was dumbfounded to say the least. How is it that fans are looking at the current labor situation as a potential strike by major league baseball players? The question bugged me immensely. Enough so that I got to thinking on how this perception -- a myth, really -- could be stopped cold and fans made to understand what is really happening inside the greatest game on earth.

See, there seems to be a public misconception. I believe a lot of fans think the players don't appreciate the game, or what the game and the fans give us. It's rather easy to take that stance as a fan these days. After all, it's all you read, watch and hear from every media outlet in existence: "So-and-so was arrested at 3 a.m. while driving 90 in a 35 zone, drugs and drug paraphernalia were found inside the car. ... So-and-so was arrested after police responded to a 911 call made by his wife; the charges were domestic abuse."

The problem on our end is if you take 10 stories, and four of them are based on someone breaking the law, 40 percent of your sports news is about criminals and felons. However, these four guys might make up less than 1/10th of one percent of all athletes in the four professional leagues.

Understand, I am making no excuses for athletes that break the law. Regardless of what we do for a living, if you hit a woman, you should go to jail, no matter your ERA, scoring average or goals allowed. You drink and drive, throw away the key. I don't want that 3 a.m. call one morning concerning my child as a victim because some idiot didn't have the sense to not get behind the wheel after drinking and driving.

We love the game
But the fact of the matter is that this kind of thing comes with the territory. Players sometimes take too long to figure it out, or they're a bit too young to think it matters when they arrive in the big time. I guess I am asking you to trust me: there are a lot more good guys in sports than bad guys -- a lot more. We love the game, we want to play the game. It's really that simple.

I finally came to the conclusion that the fans are only going to know what they read in the papers and online, and what they see on TV. And that barring some invisibility in the media from the players -- individually and collectively -- the fans are going to head into another baseball labor dispute uninformed in addition to being ticked off.

I recently spoke with Al Leiter, and my overriding concern for the next 12 months is this: the players union must be pro-active, not reactive, in the upcoming months. As a union we must step up and make it known to anyone that cares about the game that we as a whole are ready to resolve the issues concerning us and the basic agreement.

It's really very simple: Donald Fehr schedules a press conference at some swank hotel ballroom in New York, every major sports media outlet shows up and Don gets up to the mike and basically says the following:

"As president of the Major League Baseball Players Association I have been instructed by the union members I work for to announce today that the players association will agree to extend the basic agreement for the next 10 years ... yadda yadda yadda."

Now it certainly is not that simple. There are details that need to be worked out, things that need to be adjusted, but the fact of the matter is that we as a union are happy as pigs in mud playing under the basic agreement that exists. Why shouldn't we be? Even though a lot of fans would like to believe that a lot of us are brainless jocks, most of us are not. We know how incredibly fortunate we are to be playing in the era we are -- baseball has never been more popular than it is right now.

The problem is guys that feel this way and talk this way don't make for great sound bites, or good press. No, we live in a time when DWI, DUI, abuse, overdose, addiction and therapy seem to be the headline grabbers. But we also know that the fans are happy -- and unhappy. They're happy in that they are showing up in droves, but they are extremely unhappy with this black cloud looming on the horizon. Fans want the game fixed, fans want to go through a season or five without hearing the words labor dispute, disparity, lockout or strike. And for what a a ballgame costs these days, we think you deserve to have that.

Owners must get on the same page
The above scenario would be a real easy way to cut to the chase. See, you -- the fan -- need to know the how's and why's of what is about to happen to this game if the owners can't come to some common ground.

The owners are complaining about economic disparity; you can't call it whining because it does exist. How do we eliminate disparity? Well, the common theme being thrown around is a term called "revenue sharing." Revenue sharing basically means that the owners share all their money. Kind of. See the revenue sharing that has gone on the past couple of years was termed "limited revenue sharing," whereby if you had a really successful team, and you made a lot of money, rules were put in place so you had to give some of that money to teams that weren't as successful as you and/or failed to make as much money as you.

Hey, if the owners don't have a problem with this, I sure don't. But as you can see, and as Donald Fehr predicted a few years ago, it didn't fix anything. Our biggest concern as a players association was in the unknown: What was supposed to happen to the hard-earned money Mr. Steinbrenner made as owner of the Yankees when he shipped it off to the owner of one of the lesser teams? You 'd think that money would be earmarked to help that franchise spend more on it's baseball operations. But the owners wanted us to stay out of that aspect of the deal. They wanted to do whatever they chose to do with it.

On one hand, as a player I really could care less what they did with that money. Heck, they own the team, they could pocket every penny of that money, it's their team for crying out loud. But on the other hand, I do know that both sides are better off if the sport is thriving at the turnstiles and owners are all doing their best to make their teams competitive.

One side note on all of this, something that has worried me from day one is television. Major League Baseball's current TV deal is almost triple the last deal in guaranteed money from what I understand. Now that's a ton of cash, and in my opinion that's great. My only concern is that this money is guaranteed to the owners whether we play next year or not.

Now, I am simplifying things quite a bit here and in doing so I am not trying to belittle anyone. But the fact of the matter is that we are now hearing our commissioner, former Brewers owner Bud Selig, complain about the horrid lack of competition, and the disparity between the haves and the have-nots. You're seeing all kinds of plans being thrown around to assist teams to become more competitive.

What's disturbing to me is reading quotes from baseball people -- and by baseball people I mean scouts, managers and general managers -- and a lot of them are not very enthusiastic about the proposed "draft" for the worst teams in the league to take players from the best teams. How does that help the game? Basically you're being assessed what amounts to a penalty for being good, by doing things right, by winning. If you're a bad team under this proposal then you get the reverse treatment, a gift so to speak, for being bad, for making wrong decisions, for losing.

And fans please don't fool yourself; the game at this level is about one thing -- winning. Everyone loves a good sport, a nice guy, character, integrity and pride. The admiration for those qualities isn't diminished at the level we play, but all of them pale in comparison to the importance of winning. Pennants and World Series championships cure all ills.

Think I'm making this up? Let's take a quick stroll down memory lane. Flash back to April 1991 at Atlanta Fulton County Stadium. Ted Turner's Braves have pretty much been laughed at for the past seven or eight years and April of 1991 was no different. Revenue was a problem, attendance was a major issue, the stands were empty.

Skip ahead about four months to a sold-out Fulton County Stadium. The first-place Braves were playing now and not a seat was available anywhere. And it has remained that way for the better part of the last 10 years. The Braves were one of the "need help to survive" franchises less than a decade ago, but winning cured all of that. No magic formula there, no work stoppage, just good decision-making by the franchise and fan support for a team that won.

I don't care that they've won only one World Series -- the Braves have done it right for a long time. Same goes for the Yankees. Heck, I was part of one of these myself. Being a member of the 1992 Phillies was akin to working on a chain gang. Fans would come out to see us out of morbid curiosity. We stunk. But the next season we are being hailed as Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves and we're America's team headed to the World Series to battle the Canadian-based Blue Jays, upside down flag and all. Oh, by the way, we drew over three million people that year.

You can apply this theory to just about every city in baseball. Remember the Cleveland Indians of the 1970s and '80s? They modeled themselves, in my opinion, after the Braves and are now one of the most respected franchises in sports for the incredible turnaround they've performed.

What does this all mean to the fan? First, I would guess that you really don't care, you just want to see baseball. We owe it to you to make it work. I don't think anyone in the game -- from club presidents to the commissioner to the grounds crew guy would tell you any different. Somehow, some way, this needs to be fixed now.

Making some changes
In the end, this article might ring hollow without me actually putting something in writing as to what I think would help fix the game, top to bottom.

1. Luxury tax. We agreed to this four years ago and we'd do it again I think, but it needs to be meaningful this time around, and needs to have a bigger impact.

2. Eliminate the DH; add a 26th roster spot. I'm not too sure you'd hear the players fight this, though with DHs in place right now you might have to grandfather this one.

3. Total realignment. Not one team here, one team there -- true realignment. Get rid of interleague play. If you want those geographic rivalries so bad, make them a consistent thing. Here's what I'd do:

AL East: Boston, Mets, Yankees, Montreal, Toronto
AL Central: Milwaukee, Minnesota, Detroit, St. Louis, Kansas City
AL West: Oakland, San Francisco, Seattle, Colorado
NL East: Philadelphia, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Florida, Tampa Bay
NL Central: Cubs, White Sox, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Houston, Texas
NL West: Arizona, San Diego, Anaheim, Los Angeles

First thing you do is eliminate millions of dollars in travel, and you have every geographic rivalry you could wish for.

Then you add day/night doubleheaders to the schedule, shortening the length of the season.

4. Tickets for kids. For every weekend game on the schedule teams would be required to offer unsold tickets to kids under a certain age for $1, no exceptions.

5. Change the playoffs. You have two wild cards per league, playing in a first round best-of-3. The second round pits the best division-winning record vs. the winner of the first round, with the other two division winners facing off in a best of five.

League Championship Series remains a best-of-7, and by the way, best record between the two teams playing dictates home-field advantage in a series, as it should have been the last hundred years.

World Series is a best-of-7; home field goes to the team with the best record.

Again, this is only my opinion. I've spent my entire life in the game of baseball, all 34 years of it as a fan, the last 15 as a player. As they so lovingly state it on ESPN, "It's what I do." I guess my point in all of this is to let you fans know that we players do care. We want to play baseball -- badly. There are examples to the contrary I am sure, and if you wanted to you could say so-and-so is a dog, he just plays for the money.

But just like we don't categorize you as a group based on the drunken, tank-top wearing beer-bellied heckler that cuts loose with a flurry of sailor language on our mothers when we stink, we'd ask the same in return. We aren't whining, we aren't complaining, we just want to make sure that you know we want to play ball.

Thanks and God Bless,
Curt Schilling
1Sludge
      ID: 1440310
      Wed, Feb 14, 13:48
2. Eliminate the DH; add a 26th roster spot. I'm not too sure you'd hear the players fight this, though with DHs in place right now you might have to grandfather this one.

Grandfather the DH? What the hell does that mean? Let a player listed as DH remain as DH for a team while the others without a player listed as DH has to send their pitcher to the plate every 9th batter? Allow the DH position to stay until the last player currently listed as a DH retires? I can see it now: "Frank Thomas, 64, steps up to the plate. Here comes the intentional walk. That makes 354 in a row. You know, Dave, I'm starting to think that they give Frank all these walks just so they can keep using the DH. Ball four. There's another base runner for the 'good guys'."
2StLCards
      ID: 2504849
      Wed, Feb 14, 13:54
So does this mean he thinks AZ might win the division if they could just get rid of SF? Pretty convenient.
3Madman
      ID: 146191423
      Wed, Feb 14, 14:19
yeah -- the DH proposal of his is kind of weak.

Overall, it was a good read.

Right now, I think the biggest threat to baseball is the fact that the owners are simply in disarray, and they've gotten some very bad advice, IMO. Selig isn't doing baseball any favors.
4Chris
      ID: 43463013
      Wed, Feb 14, 14:31
Anyone else have a problem with his re-alignment plan?

AL East: Boston, Mets, Yankees, Montreal, Toronto
AL Central: Milwaukee, Minnesota, Detroit, St. Louis, Kansas City
AL West: Oakland, San Francisco, Seattle, Colorado
NL East: Philadelphia, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Florida, Tampa Bay
NL Central: Cubs, White Sox, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Houston, Texas
NL West: Arizona, San Diego, Anaheim, Los Angeles

The Giants and Dodgers, the best rivalry in baseball, in different leagues?

Curt, like many, fail to realize that proximity does not determine rivalries. Hundreds of years of history and memories do. The Dodgers and Angels, depite their proximity, have no rivalry.

Other than that, Curt has some pretty good ideas and it's nice to get a different perspective on things.
5G Dogg
      ID: 13631420
      Wed, Feb 14, 14:42
Other than his absurd realignment idea (Dodgers and Giants in different leagues is idiocy), I thought he had some great ideas and liked hearing a player actually say something meaningful.
6beastiemiked
      ID: 5037210
      Wed, Feb 14, 14:49
Well he did leave the two teams that have the best rivalry in different divisions but it wasn't the Giants and Dodgers. Cubs and Cardinals in different divisions??
7Madman
      ID: 146191423
      Wed, Feb 14, 14:49
The reason I didn't criticize his realignment plan is that I've never seen a plan that works for all rivalries & geographic concerns.
8Infinite Eternity
      ID: 51101222
      Wed, Feb 14, 15:02
Met's and Yankees in Same division...LOL. That would be madness. WIth the Cardinals and the Mets out of the Brave's way, who's to stop them?
9Wammie
      ID: 20039259
      Wed, Feb 14, 15:16
Cubs vs Cards in different leagues would not work. The most fun series of the year are Cubs vs. Cardinal games.

and IE, age will stop the braves. they are 1 or 2 years away from the mid to late 80's again. plus Atlanta has the worst fans in baseball.
10Taxman
      ID: 04491215
      Wed, Feb 14, 17:19
His realignment solution makes as much sense as the current alignment. A breath of fresh air. I am glad to know, right or wrong, players do care about the sanctity of the game. Sorry some of your beloved "best rivalies" are not "properly" addressed, but the rivalries can/will be addressed (extended) by non-divisional play (even if it is interleague play). To paraphrase Madman, no plan is going to make everyone (anyone) happy.
11Chris
      ID: 43463013
      Wed, Feb 14, 17:25
What's wrong with the old/current alignment? Travel time?

I'm sorry that the $20M a year players have such a rough itinerary...
12Joe
      ID: 12733315
      Wed, Feb 14, 17:39
The idea is to cut travel costs for all teams... Less costs mean more profits/less losses...
13Premium Lumber
      ID: 15435316
      Wed, Feb 14, 21:33
What was the main idea of this letter? As I read it, it says ,"It's not the players' fault if there is a strike next year. We LOVE the game. We want to PLAY the game. We know YOU want to have fun watching us play and here are some ideas I have which will make that more enjoyable for you..." That's great. How about you do things in this order...love the game, play the game, work within your ranks with the owners and agents to control your snowballing greed and resulting ruination of the game,then make some suggestions as to how you might further help us to enjoy a day at the ballpark?
14St. Louis Psychos
      ID: 537422815
      Thu, Feb 15, 09:03
Ok, just read this and here are my thoughts:
As somebody else stated, yes I have a problem with this realignment. yes this would increase profits of the teams but if this realignment took place none of the rivalries would exist (expect the cards/cubs). Because rivalries are rivalries because they don't take place all the time or multiple times a season. (again cards/cubs is an exception) Take Chicago and New York teams for example. They only play each other for maybe one series a year. Any more than that and then novelty wears off and people will just lose interest in the series. Thus back to square 1 teams woudln't be making as much money.

Also another problem I have with Schilling's letter. I know personally, and I am sure I am not the only one, the major problem I have with baseball right now is the rising players salaries and no where did he mention that aspect of the game. Come on, there were at least 3 absurd contracts just this offseason. You wanna talk about what is ruining this game? Why don't you look inward towards the players. IMO, NO PLAYER, deserves to make THAT much money. Yes, I agree if a player is good you should reward him, but there has to be limit to what they need to be paid. Too much money can ruin any person and it is definatly ruining this game. It affects every aspect of it and most importantly ticket prices. You can't go and sit in the bleachers for $5 bucks anymore. Take here in St. Louis, when I first moved here, 1997, seats in the bleachers where $6 or $7, I think this year they are $15, for a seat in the bleachers. And you are going to tell me that players salaries have no bearing on the game.

I would just love to see on great player step up and say I will play for the minimum salary. McGwire has been the closest to that I have seen.

.02...

15Wammie
      ID: 20039259
      Thu, Feb 15, 10:09
Agreed St. Louis Psychos. The ticket prices are out of controll, the players salaries are out of controll too. I am sorry but their should be a salary cap in baseball.

There is talk of putting a jumbotron screen up in wrigley field as well as inside the stadium ads to generate revenue. that is a crock. as if there isn't enough tv money out there for all teams to compete. I am sorry, but for players to be making millions of dollars is just crazy. we are all used to it and think nothing of it. we shouldn't have to go to stadiums with names of compaines, or watch ads behind the hitter when we are trying to watch a game. we shouldn't have to pay 40 bucks for a dog, a couple beers and a bleacher set. a lot of this is because of player salaries, which are allowed to grow so large because of owners. they are both at fault, and a salary cap would help solve it.
16blue hen
      ID: 34937217
      Thu, Feb 15, 16:01
Brewers and Cubs in different divisions? Giants and Dodgers? Braves and Mets? Phillies and Mets? Expos and Twins?
17Madman
      ID: 146191423
      Thu, Feb 15, 16:18
If there is going to be a salary cap, there also needs to be in place some mechanism that will prevent owners from raising prices on the fans.

To illustrate, if the StL payroll were magically cut in half, what's to prevent ownership from charging the same prices they are now? In fact, there's strong evidence that for the product on the field ownership is simply choosing an optimal ticket price to raise as much revenue as they can. That incentive will be in place with or without salary reductions.

Notice that Schilling addresses this very point by stating that owners should be required to have a $1 kid day.

(Some of you may laugh your head off that I'm making this argument, since a couple months ago I argued that salary increases can indeed lead to ticket price increases for a single team. I should point out, however, that the difference between the two arguments is that here the talent level of the team is held constant whereas the argument from before had the talent level of a team (relatively) rising).
18biliruben
      ID: 3502218
      Thu, Feb 15, 16:32
What if, at the same time, we took away the anti-trust exemption from the owners, Madman? I realize than the Steinbrenners of the world would still have an a leg up, due to TV contracts in the big-markets, but it might make the total ownership more dynamic in the future. Particularly in the big-market cities that can sustain multiple clubs.
19Madman
      ID: 146191423
      Thu, Feb 15, 16:42
biliruben That's a good question. Unfortunately, I honestly have no idea. Amazingly, this is an issue I'm really interested in, but I don't know enough to comment substantively on it.

What would indeed really break this all up is if the Twins could move (or threaten to move) to NY. And I think that's where you're headed with your thinking. But I think you'd have to do more than repeal anti-trust to get that to be a real threat. It gets complicated because the Yankees and MLB could still exist and entities, and I'm not sure where the new legal lines would be drawn with respect to whether they could still prevent a move like that.

Obviously something like XLB could start up (no batting helmets allowed! or you can't take a strike!), but I don't think that would impact MLB much for the reasons you noted.
20nerveclinic
      ID: 31351614
      Sat, Feb 17, 02:59
Schilling needs to keep his day job because he is a terrible writer. You would think he would have a professional editor look at it.

Realignment: Anyone know why he has some divisions with 6 teams and other with four...duh
21swami
      ID: 477472711
      Sat, Feb 17, 09:49
I cannot believe he wrote a letter to the fans, and didn't address the number 1 problem in the fans minds, player salaries. These are getting way out of hand. I feel like a player should be compensated according to the amount of money a franchise generates, but not at the expense of the fans and other players on his team.

A salary cap would curb the salaries, but I don't want to see it do to this game what it has done to football. Good players are constantly cut cause they cost too much. Without a cap, they would still be playing for that team. Maybe implementing some kind of 'Bird' rule for players still with their original teams. That way kids can grow up enjoing players like A-Rod and Manny always on their favorite teams.

If any kind of salary adjustment is made, there has to be a cap on ticket prices. Owners should be entitled to raise their ticket prices if their play on the field warrants such a raise, but why not implement some kind of ticket price drop if a team doesn't perform well? Maybe scale it based on where you finished.

If you were in the playoffs, certain seats (box seats, suites, etc) can be raised 10%. If you were in the next 10 teams not to make the playoffs, those same seats can only be raised 5%. If you failed to finish any higher than the 22nd best team in baseball, you either cannot raise the prices of these seats, or they fall 2.5%. Bleacher seats should ALWAYS be under $10. When I first moved to Dallas, we went to a Rangers game for $6 per seat in the bleachers. Now it has doubled to $12.

I love the cheap kids ticket price idea. I think any kid 13 and under should receive this benefit. These pacakges should be sold no earlier than the day before a game and should be staggered somehow (ie a $30 box seat is $7 for a kid while a $15 upper leve seat is $3 for a kid). ID's should be required, so the owners cannot say people take advantage of this policy. With the ticket packages being sold so late, the owner has the best chance to get full value for each seat.

Schillings's realignment setup is pretty rediculous and would never happen. He must have been out drinking with Randy when he came up with that one. Go with 4 divisions in each league with only the division champions making the playoffs works for me. Big damn deal if some team with a better record than a division winner misses the playoffs. Look at the NBA right now. Things will balance out. Here is what I have come up with:

AL East: NYY, Bal, Bos, Tor
AL Cent: ChW, Det, Cle, Minn
AL South: KC, TB, Tex
AL West: Oak, Sea, Ana, Col
NL East: NYM, Mon, Phi, Pitt
NL Cent: StL, ChC, Chi, Mil
NL South: Hou, Fla, Atl
NL West: SF, LA, SD, Ariz

Two of the division are three teams only, but as we stand now, there is a six team division and a four team division. You tell me which is the harder division to win. In this alignment, no team has to travel more than one time zone for road games. This way kids can almost see weeknight games in their entirety.

Day games should be implemented much more often. I undertand money drives everything these days, and that night games stand more of a chance of selling out than do day games, but this idea brings the game back to the kids. I used to love racing home from school to catch a 3pm Cubs game on WGN. More doubleheaders to make the season shorter sounds like a good idea to me. This would have games being played both at night and during the day. One problem that could arise here would be doubleheader rainouts. Those could cause huge scheduling problems late in the season.

As far as the DH goes, I could really care less. I like the DH as it's the only thing I know in my life as a baseball fan. It prolonged the career of some of my favorite players, and that can only be a good thing. In football, teams adapt to the teams they will play the most. In the AFC central, teams are trying to build a defense and a strong running game, while teams in the NFC Central have to contend with the likes of Randy Moss, Chris Carter, Antonio Freeman, Keyshawn Johnson, etc so they build an anti-passing attack defense. I like the fact that the DH is a huge strategy piece in the World Series. In writing this, I have made a decision, keep the DH.

Hopefully people with an open mindset will be negotiating a new deal. I am worried because I see no signs of one being discussed right now, and I don't think baseball can survive another strike. Even if it is in the offseason. With some luck, we will be playing a WS in 2001 and a season in April of 2002.

May God bless this great game.
22The Left Wings
      ID: 2131321
      Sat, Feb 17, 12:14
You'd wonder why Schilling failed to address the most important salary issue: these players are so very overpaid! Their correct salaries should consist of one fewer 0 at the end of the figures. Then even the Montreal Expos can afford the best players.
Can't you see? All these ballplayers can do is play ball. If the team owners all agree not to pay them that much money, then they'll have to succumb to lower salaries. So in a sense it is the owners who are screwing themselves out of the money. Then again, they can't do it now cuz the players can simply go on strike for 20 years and they'll still have plenty of money to spend.
The one truly bad thing about sports is that the players actually believes that they deserve that much money. It's only a GAME, for Pete's sake, and people can most certainly do without it, although life would be much more boring.

And the realignment thing just tells me that Schilling does not understand the fans whatsoever. Montreal and Yankees? I'm sure those are gonna be fun games. I can imagine the guy from Sportsdesk say in an September (maybe not this year, maybe not next, but some September): "With today's 19-1 loss, the last-place Expos remains winless in 11 games against the Yankees, being outscored 122-9 in the span. The last game of this four-game weekend series will have , with a 9.59 ERA, going against , who leads the major league with 25 wins in 28 starts."
And the fact that Schilling puts TOR and MTL in the same division as the Yankees is just plane-old screwing the Canadians. Everyone knows Canadians $$$ can't compete with American $$$.

What's wrong with DH anyways? I just don't get it. From a fans standpoint, I believe the DH is better because they actually know how to hit a ball. I'd rather see a DH hitting a homer instead of a pitcher grounding to first with a .055 hitting average.
23nerveclinic
      ID: 31351614
      Sun, Feb 18, 04:25
Left wings

The problem with the DH to a baseball "pureist" to use an arrogant term, is it kills managerial strategy.

When a pitcher is about to come up, in a close game, a manager has decide to either pinch hit for him or leave him in, adding an extra dynamic layer to decisions made in a game.

With a DH there is no decision to make. It's a completely differant game.
24swami
      ID: 477472711
      Mon, Feb 26, 09:56
Interesting Pedro article....

I'm beginning to wonder if the players are doing a little bit of positioning with the fans and media. With a potential strike looming, the backing the fans could bring the players will get them exactly what they want.

Didn't Pedro make a comment once Manny signed that he was gonna be looking at getting a raise as well, or something along those lines?
25Wammie
      ID: 513268
      Mon, Feb 26, 10:11
I wonder what Frank Thomas thinks of all of this, I can probably tell you, he just wants to get paid. it is players like him that are messing up baseball.
26Rogue's Strikers
      ID: 300382817
      Mon, Feb 26, 11:20
Everyone here is saying: "the players are making too much money. Why didn't he adress that?" Yep, they're making too much money. But what would you do if someone came up to your house in a big dumptruck filled with thousand-dollar bills and asked you to play a game for it?

If the owners stop offering it, the players won't get it. Simple as that. The problem now is the owners aren't sitting down together and working a deal together. That guy in Texas was worried that someone else would sign A-rod, so he offered him the moon. If they had all gotten together and said "nobody offers him more than 10 mil a year, no matter what. For the sake of baseball, ok?"

Anyway, you get my point. Selig has to get these fools together.
27Gary
      ID: 381157822
      Mon, Feb 26, 11:35
I have a thing to say on this subject. First I really found the Schilling article a good read and he has some good points and some that aren't in my opinion, I won't elaberate due to the fact others have.

The other is this. I am a big football fan and in the past couple of years I have started to really enjoy the game of Baseball again, thanks to you all. In football Denver a couple of years ago did something very few team owners do and that is to redo the contract of Terrell Davis. He had a great rookie season and so decided that he deserved more $.

If more team owners showed this kind of inititive I think more players would stop bit#hing about what they are making. But I also believe that players should do the same. If they have a bad year they should distribute a portion of there salary to players still on the team from that bad season.

Just an example of something I think would make the game more appealing to the fan for I know I really thought that was a good move on Denvers part. Yes, we fans see all.

Gary
28Wammie
      ID: 513268
      Mon, Feb 26, 13:00
There is too much pressure to win than not offer tons of money to win. plus players have no loyality to teams any more. by the way, Frank Thomas is an idiot. I used to like the little hurt, now i can't stand him. the sox should trade him.
29 Mark L
      ID: 4444938
      Mon, Feb 26, 14:24
RS - the last time the commissioner (was Ueberroth then) got the "fools" together and established limits on free agent bidding it cost the owners tens of millions of dollars. This thing called "collusion," you might remember it . . .
30Wammie
      ID: 513268
      Mon, Feb 26, 14:28
do we have to wait for a team to go bankrupt before something happens? or do we have to wait until the players strike because frank thomas and company are only making 10 million a year? the fans always lose.

I love to watch baseball, as do millions of americans. it is too bad that a handfull of players, and the owners have the potential to ruin the game for millions of people.
31Buck
      ID: 1443248
      Mon, Feb 26, 16:49
Schilling's article was interesting to say the least. I am reading here that alot of you are criticizing Curt for not thinking salaries are a problem. From his point of view salaries are not out of line. Players are getting what the labor market is willing to pay. Wammie, Left Wing and others, would you bitch if a company in Texas is willing to pay you $250 million over ten years to relocate there and work for them? If company thinks that with you on their payroll they can produce a better product which more consumers will buy even if they raise the price of the product wouldn't you and the owner think its a good deal? Its not the players fault to properly seek the highest value for their services in the marketplace. After all, thats why they hire agents. You and I use headhunters / recruiters and perhaps monster.com Can you blame Schilling for saying the Players Union should extend the current agreement for another ten years?
The culprit here is the owners, the cities / states, and the fans. Owners willingly become the suitors of the ballplayers. Cities/states build new stadiums using tax dollars to keep teams. Fans continue buying tickets and watching on TV teams with diluted talent. Until there is a decrease in owner's greed/ego, a decrease in the number of teams ( or at least the number of economically challenged teams), and fans deciding to spend their entertainment dollars ( yes, you better understand that Baseball is part of the entertainment industry and is not just a "game" ) elsewhere we will always have the current situation.
As far as alignment goes... well, IMHO I believe we have too many teams playing too many games. This has contributed to a weaker product. We have too many ballplayers at the major league level who really don't belong there. Perhaps the first step in realignment would be to eliminate 10 % of the teams. As what Nature does best, a species becomes stonger by eliminating the weak. The teams that are weak financially because of "small markets" or mismanagement should be eliminated and their player personnel distributed via a draft to the remaining teams. Therefore, the teams that would fold would probably be: Minnesota, KC, Milwaukee, Montreal, and perhaps Pittsburgh or San Diego. Maybe one or two of them could move to a better "market". By eliminating approximately 100 major league jobs there would be more player competition for less roster spots. Would owners be less likely to give shortstops with .250 BA $15 million over 3 years? Probably, because there is a larger labor pool to choose from. Would the level of talent on the field improve? Most likely.
Now if we could only reduce the number of games played to say 125 - 150. best leave that topic for another post. :)


32Wammie
      ID: 513268
      Tue, Feb 27, 09:24
why should cities have their teams taken away just because they are not as big as ny,la, or chicago? there was never any problem with KC having a team until the last few years.
33WiddleAvi
      ID: 48523260
      Tue, Feb 27, 09:48
It's funny how few people mentioned this. The fans arn't losing interest in the game cause players are commiting crimes. People are losing interest cause of players salaries and players whining. I thought every response in this thread would mention that. I heard a very good point yesterday. Players sign a contract and then a few years later come back to the owners complaining they are underpaid and the contract should be reworked. Well what about all the players that are underprefroming....shouldn't the owners be allowed to come to them and say hey lets redo your contract for alot less money ?? It has to go both ways. Another thing I never understood is what is the point of signing a contract if no one has to really honor it ?? I never heard Michael Jordon complain that he was underpaid. Hell he made alot of money but he was definityl worth tons more to his team then they were paying him. Schilling, I am sorry but you are WAY off base with your reasoning why fans are losing interest in the game.
34Whitey
      ID: 2543539
      Tue, Feb 27, 09:56
Gary - To add on the point you made in post 27, I believe that a large portion of contracts for major league baseball players should be based on player performance. Instead of giving AROD 25 million a year, I say you give him 10 million in base salary and another 15 million in incentives. If he is the best player in baseball, like many think, then he would have no problem reaching those incentives and would be earning his money.
35swami
      ID: 477472711
      Tue, Feb 27, 10:06
Wanna hear something sick? A-Rod has a $500,000 bonus if he's the MVP! What is the original $25mil for?
36Rogue's Strikers
      ID: 300382817
      Tue, Feb 27, 10:11
I've never understood why contracts aren't incentive based. Right now its like giving a car salesman a full time salary.
Example: "Now go sell me some cars! Even though you don't really gain anything by it! Ok?" lol...

Give A-Rod TWO million a year (so he can at least maintain his life-style) and then have 23 million in incentives. Like how about 1 million per 100 AB's. Another million per 5 HR. Another million per 50 hits, etc... So if he misses the whole year to injury the team isn't wasting 25 million(!) on absolutely nothing.

Or maybe MLB should set the rates. I.E. Every player gets a base salary of 500 000$ and then here's how the incentives are handed out... (they could balance the rates at each position as HR are more valuable from a SS than some DH slugger, and defensive stats would also count of course) Then, if A-Rod does the best he'll be paid the best.

I can't BLAME Curt Schilling and Co. for taking the money that they have. It was practically shoved into their pockets. But they can't ignore their responsability now. They want to make the fans happy? Time to start renegotiating those contracts. Time to end these days of "you can throw a ball 5 feet? Ok, give him a minor-league contract... worth something crappy... like 200,000$." The players have to do their part too.
37Wammie
      ID: 513268
      Tue, Feb 27, 10:15
You would see a lot of selfish players if they played incentive based contracts. could you imagine frank thomas would do. he would throw out fundamentals of baseball and play for stats.
38swami
      ID: 477472711
      Tue, Feb 27, 10:24
LMAO @ Jerry Manuel trying to pull Thomas from a game for a pinch hitter if that was the case!
39Rogue's Strikers
      ID: 300382817
      Tue, Feb 27, 10:39
I concur Wammie, but I its not like Frank Thomas ISN'T selfish now...
40WiddleAvi
      ID: 48523260
      Tue, Feb 27, 10:50
By the way Curt Schilling, You want fans to like the players more ?? Make it mandatory for them to sign autographs after games etc. After games you can stand around by the team bus hoping to get autographs yet they all walk by ignoring everyone. I understand that they don't like people getting it just to sell but live with it !!
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