| RotoGuru Baseball Forum View the Forum Registry |
| |
| 0 |
Subject: Comments on the SW Remedy Posted by: Guru - [330592710] Wed, May 09, 08:13 Since there are so many threads discussing the SW server problems and the related issues, let's try to consolidate today's commentary in one thread. Here's my take: It seems to me that if you made a hitter trade after the 5/7 freeze, you got a free trade. You still have the new player, but you got the trade back as well. The only penalty is a one day lag in the new player's points. So those who made a pre-crash hitter trade seem to have gotten an advantage. If you made a pitcher trade, your situation is much murkier. Again, you weren't charged with the trade, but you still own the new pitcher. It the pitcher was supposed to start on Tuesday, you missed the points. So quite possibly, the free trade is wasted anyway. Of course, if the trade was to buy Randy, it really stings. If it was to buy Maddux, then you got a benefit. If the pitcher's next start was after Tuesday, then you got a free trade again, since you now own the pitcher, and didn't have to spend a trade to get him. This seems like a rather bizarre solution. I would think they would have either voided all trades after the 5/7 freeze and reset all rosters to the 5/7 freeze players, or else allowed everything to stand as is (i.e., allow all trades to go through is they were made pre-crash). I haven't decided whether the actual solution is better or worse than either of the simpler alternatives, although my gut tells me it's worse. | ||||||
| 64 | Sura ID: 27435718 Wed, May 09, 14:23 | I traded into Randy Johnson Monday night and this morning received no credit for his 170 points. I e-mailed SW and when I got back today I had credit for Johnson's 170 points. | |||||
| 65 | MikeMaz ID: 120591614 Wed, May 09, 14:28 | Sura , can you please provide me with your team id#. If what you say is true , i think all the rest of us would send an e-mail also and reference your case as an example. | |||||
| 66 | Sura ID: 27435718 Wed, May 09, 14:40 | here , I bought Randy at 3:17 PM May 7, which would be after the roster freeze. | |||||
| 67 | G Dogg ID: 13631420 Wed, May 09, 14:49 | Well, you certainly got Randy's points...now, let all hell break loose... | |||||
| 68 | Dan ID: 31445914 Wed, May 09, 14:49 |
I traded for RJ before the crash and checked back after things were up and the trade didn't go through apparently b/c I still had the pticher I traded for him, BUT I got RJ's points somehow. I mean I guess I lucked out, though I'm betting they'll be gone soon enough. The whole things is bollocks. The site is viewed way too often for even the minorest flub to have consequences. Something needs to be done for the future. Male Pattern Badass | |||||
| 69 | mets ID: 9344918 Wed, May 09, 14:50 | this is weird,I got Maddux on my team from KB but no -20 and an extra PT | |||||
| 70 | ChicagoTRS Sustainer ID: 4324316 Wed, May 09, 14:55 |
Sura...Well that is horse crap...selective enforcement??? Did you still get the bonus trade? Looks like you made out like a bandit... Personally I can't complain because I had Maddux but if I was one of those who missed out on Johnson I would be pissed. Looking at your Monday frozen roster it sure seems like you got the points for Johnson after the supposed freeze/roll back. SW is making a big mistake selectively enforcing their decision. | |||||
| 71 | Guru ID: 330592710 Wed, May 09, 14:56 | sounds like the tech guys and the product guys aren't communicating again... | |||||
| 72 | Yads ID: 11438315 Wed, May 09, 14:57 | The question still remains.....dump randy before tommorow's freeze or keep him till his next start? | |||||
| 73 | ChicagoTRS Sustainer ID: 4324316 Wed, May 09, 14:57 | mets...what you ended up with was exactly what SW said they would do...you got the points from your monday frozen roster and if you made trades you got the trades back but kept the players. | |||||
| 74 | G Dogg ID: 13631420 Wed, May 09, 14:59 | mets, did you not read the directions? Or, maybe I am reading your post wrong. If you traded into Maddux, you SHOULDN'T have gotten the -20, but they "gave" you the trade back. That is how it is on everyone except Sura's roster. What we really need is 2 trades, if they are going to make us keep Randy/Maddux/or whoever you traded into. | |||||
| 75 | Guru ID: 330592710 Wed, May 09, 15:05 |
on the bright side... Can anyone EVER remember SW responding to an email this quickly? | |||||
| 76 | Kings Fan ID: 1945815 Wed, May 09, 15:07 | I think I'll e-mail SW and see if they can give me KB's points and take away Maddux's -20. Sounds like they'll do it without even validating my request...LOL | |||||
| 77 | Sura ID: 27435718 Wed, May 09, 15:08 | I didn't get a bonus trade, but I'll take the 170 points instead of a trade. | |||||
| 78 | Madman ID: 29246911 Wed, May 09, 15:10 | *groan*. I'm not personally affected (haven't been managing with due diligence, I'm afraid). But the phrase "from bad to worse" comes to mind here. | |||||
| 79 | mets ID: 9344918 Wed, May 09, 15:13 | oh whoops my bad..so i got maddux on my roster and an extra trade and no -20..but at least i got KB's 160 :)) | |||||
| 80 | X ID: 19457815 Wed, May 09, 15:35 |
I am EXTREMELY PISSED about this situation. I was unable to pick up Randy before Monday's freeze so I picked him up Monday night. Now I see that just because I made a trade after Monday's freeze I don't get his points. I had both Pedro and Randy on my roster. I was planning on holding both until after they pitched together on the 18th. Now it looks like Pedro won't lose any money by next freeze. He'll actually gain A LOT more. But Randy is a different story. Many teams bought RJ between Monday after the freeze and the crash. Now there are double the amount of teams that had him than at Monday's freeze. So he'll drop TWICE as much as he went up and screw me for holding him. Now I'd probably would be better off dropping RJ and getting him back later. But I think that everyone should just hold onto RJ, that way you save a trade and don't lose much money. I got so screwed out of this. Why couldn't they keep all of the trades made prior to the crash. So they'd have a freeze when nobody was expecting it. It's not like they haven't done some crazy thing like this before. It would have made a whole lot more sense then what they did. Now I will get hammered by this. I got NO gains from RJ for getting him after Monday's freeze. Now he will lose TONS of money. Even if I wanted to avoid the loses, I could trade Randy back to who I had but then I'd be down a trade. Just like someone said earlier, it's like trading Brown --> Brown. Same roster, 1 less trade. Does someone know smallworld's email. I would really like to send them an email and try to get an explanation and possibly get RJ points like Sura did. So could someone please post smallworld's email for me. Thanks. I'm not even gonna get into how RJ got screwed by MLB for not saying that he tied the record. He did have 20 K's in 9 IP just like the other two. Don't punish a man because his team can't hit. I don't think RJ will mind though. In his mind (like most of the fans' minds) he knows that he tied the record and he is fully deserving of the record. | |||||
| 81 | Thome's Tribe ID: 14456817 Wed, May 09, 15:36 |
I had the same situation as Sura. Traded for Randy after the Mon. freeze, before the server crashed. Today I have Randy, without his points, but I got the trade back. I just e-mailed them asking to please give me Randy's points instead of giving me the trade back. We'll see what happens..... | |||||
| 82 | OSU Rules Sustainer ID: 15372315 Wed, May 09, 16:00 | FWIW, I received an email from SW around 1 pm PST. No new information about the impact on the games, but it puts some PR spin around it (i.e. maintenance is necessary, sorry for the inconvenience, committed to best fantasy games on the web, etc.). I don't recall getting this in the past. It is a nice personal touch, but I am not sure it was worth the time they probably spent on it. | |||||
| 83 | James K Polk ID: 114581215 Wed, May 09, 16:00 |
I have also emailed Don Mathis. The more I think about this, the more I am upset. I understand being frustrated because you couldn't make a trade you intended to. It's happened to me many times -- because of oversleeping, being too busy, the power going out at my house ... and occasionally because of Smallworld servers. But Tuesday morning was a level playing field -- no one could get into the servers. And it was a level playing field Monday night, when I and many others legally traded into Randy. I can see NO justification for that subest of managers being penalized -- essentially for the timing of their trades, even though they followed the rules correctly. This specifically makes the playing field uneven. | |||||
| 84 | Madman ID: 29246911 Wed, May 09, 16:08 |
Maintenance is necessary??!?!?! You're kidding me, OSU Rules, right? If this was maintenance ****[moderated commentary that is unsuitable for children was typed here. RotoGuru neither accepts nor condones such language in these public forums]***nch of balogna. JKP Yeah, same here. The more I think about this, the more perplexed and upset I get. Granted, I gained relative to most managers just because my inactive team wasn't hurt much. But that doesn't mean I'm any less perturbed by this. The only exception to your statement, JKP, would be if the server crash actually CAUSED rosters to become invalid for whatever reason. That happened back in '99 on at least two different occassions. The solution back then was unpalatable to me -- just let all the invalid rosters go unscored. Sometimes adjustments do indeed have to be made. But we've been given no reason why this solution was necessary. And even in my wildest imagination, I haven't been able to figure out a reason for it, either. | |||||
| 85 | Madman ID: 29246911 Wed, May 09, 16:10 | I just realized that referring to SW's actions as a bunch of bologna is an insult to Oscar Meyer. I hereby officially apologize to Oscar Meyer and bologna lovers everywhere. | |||||
| 86 | MonctonMets ID: 11182811 Wed, May 09, 16:15 | I just want to vent about the royal screwing I received. I went Brown =>> Randy late Monday night. So I lost out on a trade, 170 points, cash, everything. I was WWR of about 575 on Monday/Tuesday, now I'm WWR of about 1100. Completely due to the server failure. I'm pissed. Should we be expecting things like this from Smallworld on a regular basis now ? I'm probably more upset about the "remedy" than the problem. | |||||
| 87 | Lurky Lurkmeister ID: 34420916 Wed, May 09, 16:26 |
Hey Madman, If your team wasn't affected, why all the crying? Save the tears for your team which is dead last in the Gurupie Standings and its low roster value. | |||||
| 88 | Madman ID: 29246911 Wed, May 09, 16:36 |
Lurky Lurkmeister -- Ever heard of Jean-Paul Sartre? I hadn't before yesterday. At any rate, I, like Sartre, believe that morality and fairness can and must be judged without reference to whom the affected agents are. In plain English (kind of), if it's unfair for you, it's unfair for me, regardless of which of us technically benefitted from the lack of fairness. | |||||
| 89 | Lurky Lurkmeister ID: 34420916 Wed, May 09, 16:44 |
Madman, No matter what solution Smallworld came up with, there would be winners and losers. So there's no use is crying. Just move on. You are just looking for an excuse to quit the game you obviously suck at. | |||||
| 90 | mjp8251 ID: 17381811 Wed, May 09, 16:53 | I'm not going to lie I actually am happy this happened as it allowed me to shave lose 800 spots and finally break the top 2000. I do however feel sorry for all of you were hurt by the trade but some people who got Maddux were helped by the trade. It doesn't matter what they did their was still going to be some bickering. | |||||
| 91 | Madman ID: 29246911 Wed, May 09, 16:59 |
Lurky Lurkmeister Yes, there will be winners and losers with any solution. Actually, that's the idea. Some solutions will give you the same winners and losers as what the implicit and explicit rules of the game would give you. Other solutions (like this one) change who the winners and losers will be. I suppose then that you'd accept a solution that took 200 points away from your team? You'd just move on? Please point me to the post that said I was quitting. I'm continually amazed at how much other people know regarding what I do and say. They even know more than I do about my own statements. Amazing. This is the second post on these boards in two days (different people) that has attacked things that I've said either on these boards or elsewhere. And in both cases the writer has invented statements out of their imagination or taken them wholly out of context, and I'm getting quite tired of it, to be frank. Regarding my abilities as a SW manager, I fully admit I have been fairly lousy. I simply haven't checked in on my teams enough. Today, I just discovered that I have David Ortiz on my roster. Geez. | |||||
| 92 | Richard Leader ID: 1719313 Wed, May 09, 17:25 |
Madman - for some reason it does appear that you have a target painted on your back. I'm not sure why but a few folks seem to be out to pick fights with you. I, on the other hand, always look forward to reading your posts since they are well written, thoughtful and insightful. You posts are a far cry from some of the more inciteful posts that have been popping up around here. Your good buddy, Richard | |||||
| 93 | StLCards Sustainer ID: 2504849 Wed, May 09, 17:30 | I second Richard's comments. | |||||
| 94 | Madman ID: 29246911 Wed, May 09, 17:31 |
Thanks for the refresher, Richard. I've learned a lot from the people on these boards, too. All this electronic posting is toughening my skin, probably a good thing. I suppose I deserve it for being listed 200th out of all the Gurupies. Oh well. If anyone can handle being last, I suppose I can. I really haven't managed my team very carefully. And on the bright side, I've got a boatload of trades handy :) | |||||
| 95 | azdbacker ID: 51392423 Wed, May 09, 17:45 |
Don't let the idiots bother you, Madman. I look forward to your posts as much or more than anyone here. :) I too am bothered by the decision. I bought Randy on Sunday, so I actually benefitted by being one of the lucky few who had him for his 170 points. Nonetheless, it's flat-out wrong. Trades that were made should have counted like any other trades. There have been times I've been unable to trade due to server problems - in fact it cost me a valid roster in hoops this year. People that planned ahead and traded earlier should not be penalized. | |||||
| 96 | Kings Fan ID: 59442917 Wed, May 09, 17:54 | Hey azdbacker - how many posts WILL you make tonight? LOL! | |||||
| 97 | azdbacker ID: 51392423 Wed, May 09, 17:58 |
:) Actually, I've got business until about 10pm, so I probably won't surpass last night. | |||||
| 98 | ClevelandRocks ID: 4412918 Wed, May 09, 18:35 |
Wasup peoples! just thought id stop by and read comments from some frustrated people. After hearing all these horror stories, Im certaintly glad i didnt make the commitment to finish out this season with smallworld. Especially after Rj's fantastic outing.. no points.. ouch.. people arent going to forget that come registration time next season. I'm just about dead sure i'll be playing a different game come next season. Good luck for those that decide to play the season out. madman.. that one time poster obviosly hasnt been around long enough to appreciate your posts. | |||||
| 99 | Lurky Lurkmeister ID: 34420916 Wed, May 09, 18:44 |
Appreciate Madman's posts? What, his pitching graphs that are a complete waste of everybodies time? There's a reason why they're buried so far down in this forum with a bunch of "1" ratings. Those same graphs are also the reason why his team sucks. LOL Madman, ever heard the term, "Once a quitter, always a quitter"? | |||||
| 100 | COAST2COAST ID: 23625310 Wed, May 09, 19:04 | Madman, might I suggest that we no longer listen/correspond to Jerky Jerkmeister? ;) | |||||
| 101 | StLCards Sustainer ID: 3505622 Wed, May 09, 23:29 | I was looking at the previous standings posted by J which shows my team with 6 pt for the two days prior to the crash. I made 2 pt and 1 ht prior to the crash and now I have 9 pt's. Did SW give out 3 PT's for the 2 I made? or maybe J's standings weren't reflecting my pt's correctly? Anyone else have anything like this happen? | |||||
| 102 | Dan Donor ID: 45054169 Wed, May 09, 23:32 | STL SW gave out 3 new PT as they do every week. Just that it happened a day late because of the crash. | |||||
| 103 | Don ID: 28448107 Thu, May 10, 07:48 | The solution they came up with... it totally sucks. Because I plan my trades whenever possible, I made my trade on the afternoon of 5/7, way before the crash. I got screwed out of the Randy Johnson 170 points. What the hell?!?! | |||||
| 104 | deepsnapper ID: 52320226 Thu, May 10, 08:46 |
The thing that gets me the most is their lack of communication. If it was "necessary maintenance", then a message could have been posted the day prior and given everyone a heads up. Didn't happen. I didn't make any trades after Randro'ing Sunday, so I didn't think the downtime was really going to effect me. Was I wrong! Their solution is screwy at best. If they reset the rosters back, then they should have reset the rosters! This giving out of trades selectively is ridiculous. It might be OK for a HT, but PT are entirely different. The impact on my rosters is because they decided not to perform price updates for 2 days! One day I can accept, but 2? The first day I can understand, the system was down. But day 2? If the system came up around midnight ET, then there was a lot of time to capture trade data before yesterdays freeze. I'm a morning trader and so I went in yesterday ~7AM and Randro'd my rosters. Preplanned and purely for the money this week. Out the door by 9AM and didn't check in until 3PM only to find out there wasn't a price change! Had I known, I'd have held off of the trades or done other trades to come up with a THM. On a couple of rosters I moved Mad Dog into Miller for the money gain. D'Oh! No money, few points, and now I have to burn a trade to get out of Miller before the selloff today. Small World knew they weren't going to perform prices changes yesterday a lot sooner than they put up a message. Why wasn't a message posted on the system when it came back up? It would've resulted in a whole lot fewer page hits for SW yesterday. Was that the reason? More popups? Now checking in this AM, no point updates in Hardball or the free game. 1 word - fubar FYI - Sandbox has changed their rules. You're allowed up to 3 free teams now. You can acquire a "dead" team or draft a new roster, it's your choice. Click on the "Add a Team" button on your home page. It's a alternative to Small World stewing. PS: Madman - ignore the idiots, you're this week's WaB award winner. You know we all look forward to your posts and insightful comments. Hang in there. ;-) | |||||
| 105 | Texas Flood Donor ID: 2110432013 Thu, May 10, 09:35 | Madman, trolls come and trolls go. we appreciate you well thought out posts and knowledge of the game. thanks again TF. | |||||
| 107 | Texas Flood Donor ID: 2110432013 Thu, May 10, 09:56 | that would be the moderator, and if you're not carefull you will be blocked from posting at all. it's happend before. | |||||
| 108 | steve houpt ID: 51455105 Thu, May 10, 10:04 |
I think they decided to come up with a remedy so bizarre that not one could have thought of it in advance. They succeeded. IMHO, even worse than the 'bizarre' remedy was no mention of canceling repricing when the site came back up. In phone conversations they were passing that info out well in advance of posting it. Like deepsnapper, I Randro'd for money and made a 1B move (afraid T Lee hurt) that I was afraid I could not if one more repricing took place. I would have waited on both if they had posted no repricing was taking place (and maybe picked up Jaha). I guess if I was serious about the game, I could have made a long distance call to try and find out. Do they give that type of info out to anyone or do you need a special 'in' number for that type of phone info? | |||||
| 109 | Xman ID: 542142516 Thu, May 10, 10:27 | I am somewhat confused after reading all these posts and what SW said. I traded out of pedro into randy on monday morning so i could get the 2 days of price increses. But after the crash was finally corrected i recieved points for Randy. From what i have read i should not have been charged a trade and pedro should still be on my team. This is why i am confused. If somebody out there can help me understand this better, it would be greatly appreciated. | |||||
| 110 | steve houpt ID: 51455105 Thu, May 10, 10:31 |
Xman - only affected trades made after freeze on Monday until the crash early Tuesday morning. | |||||
| 111 | Richard Leader ID: 1719313 Thu, May 10, 10:34 |
Welcome, steve houpt. I haven't seen your name around here as much this year as in years past. The latest SW screw-up kind of reminds me of watching folks tryin to count votes down in Florida this past election. If there is a better way to screw-up, you can bet that SW will strive for it;-) Richard | |||||
| 112 | Xman ID: 542142516 Thu, May 10, 10:38 | Thank you steve. | |||||
| 113 | deepsnapper ID: 52320226 Thu, May 10, 13:09 |
It appears SW has lost all the pricing history on players. At least the link on the player pages is missing and there is no prior day to compare their price change to. Everyone looks like they IPO'd today. There is no daily price change (+/-)info on the roster page either. Hardball's points are updated but the same pricing history problem exists. At least today's price change did occur and HT were refreshed. Maybe Guru could give SW a flat file to restore their player price change history. On top of everything else, I lost my "sustainer" handle! D'Oh! | |||||
| 114 | potts ID: 7319162 Thu, May 10, 18:53 |
Previously just a lurker, first time poster here?..... If you went from Brown to RJ/Maddux before the crash and back to Brown after the crash you have no right to complain about losing a trade for nothing. You should not blame SW, it's your own fault and you screwed yourself by not trading pitchers efficiently. SW's "solution" made sense from this standpoint; if you went from Brown to RJ/Maddux before the crash you obviously missed out on their points, which in hindsight was good news (Maddux) or bad news (RJ), but that's neither here nor there. SW gave you an EXTRA trade to presumably GET OUT OF RJ or Maddux and go to SOMEONE ELSE, like somebody who pitched on Wednesday night, for example Clemens or Park. I went from Brown to Maddux pre-crash, and Maddux to Park post-crash (already had Clemens) with the "extra" trade so the net effect to me was Brown to Park, and nothing happened as far as wasting trades. For example, hypothetical here: you go from Pedro to RJ. RJ leaves with an injury or something in the 1st inning and gets you 0 SWP. Next day you go from RJ back to Pedro. Net result: Pedro to Pedro, 0 SWPs, 2 trades wasted due to circumstances out of your control (injury). Under the crash scenario, apparently a lot of people went Brown to RJ/Maddux and then back to Brown. Well, net result is similar to above: Brown to Brown, 0 SWPs, but thanks to SW's generosity, only 1 trade wasted! Better than above, but still a waste due to circumstances out of your control (SW server crash). But it didn't have to be a waste! You just failed to think rationally and take advantage of the "extra" trade SW gave you! Ideally, if you went Brown to Maddux/RJ pre-crash, you went from Maddux/RJ to Park/Clemens post-crash, and then if you were intent on getting Brown back you could have done so. Net result, Brown to Brown, 130-140 SWP gained, and 2 trades used somewhat efficiently (Randro-style) but not really wasted considering you got your start and your SWP. It's not the 170 SWP RJ would have gained for you, but it's close, and other than that it's as if NOTHING HAPPENED AT ALL! By the way, I do not necessarily endorse Randro-style trading methods. Thank you. | |||||
| Rate this thread: | If you wish, you may rate this thread on scale of 1-5. Ratings should indicate how valuable or interesting you believe this thread would be to other users of this forum. A '5' means that this thread is a 'must read'. A '1' means that this is a complete waste of time. If you have previously rated this thread, rating it again will delete your previous rating. If you do not want to rate this thread, but want to see how others have rated it, then click the button without entering a rating, or else click here. | ||||||
| |||||||
Post a reply to this message: (But first, how about checking out this sponsor?) | |||||||