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0 Subject: "Not So Mock" Draft - Round 22

Posted by: tduncan - [47616279] Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 14:33
  sledge Mr. Nice Guy CanEHdian Pride Khahan Chuck Dan tduncan Strike One wazaaap_guy wiggs blockaa Mikel
1 Alex Rodriguez Randy Johnson Pedro Martinez Ivan Rodriguez Mike Piazza Todd Helton Sammy Sosa Curt Schilling Vladimir Guererro Jason Giambi Barry Bonds Ichiro Suzuki
2 Mike Mussina Mariano Rivera Jason Kendall Tim Hudson Albert Pujols Greg Maddux Roberto Alomar Jeff Bagwell Derek Jeter Roger Clemens Manny Ramirez Chipper Jones
3 Kevin Brown Nomar Garciaparra Troy Glaus Jeff Kent Miguel Tejada Luis Gonzales Shawn Green Juan Gonzales Bobby Abreu Ken Griffey Jr. Matt Morris Carlos Delgado
4 Brian Giles Magglio Ordonez Edgardo Alfonzo Lance Berkman Barry Zito Brett Boone Alfonso Soriano Andruw Jones Javier Vazquez Freddy Garcia Phil Nevin Gary Sheffield
5 Rafael Palmeiro Mike Sweeney Jimmy Rollins Al Leiter Kazuhiro Sasaki Jorge Posada Ryan Klesko Kerry Wood Roy Oswalt Trevor Hoffman Rich Aurillia Larry Walker
6 Eric Chavez Paul LoDuca Bartolo Colon Moises Alou J.D. Drew Rob Nen Armando Benitez Jose Vidro Mark Mulder Chan Ho Park Scott Rolen Darryl Kile
7 John Smoltz Keith Foulke Carlos Beltran Troy Percival Craig Biggio Aramis Ramirez Corey Koskie Juan Pierre Billy Wagner Russ Ortiz Jason Isringhausen Jon Lieber
8 Shannon Stewart Jonny Damon Wade Miller Aaron Sele Jim Thome Adam Dunn Christian Guzman Jeff Cirillo Adrian Beltre Bernie Williams Billy Koch Rafael Furcal
9 Frank Thomas Mark Buerhle Matt Anderson Mo Vaughn Ugueth Urbina Joe Mays Bob Wickman Jamie Moyer Josh Beckett Ray Durham Cliff Floyd C.C. Sabathia
10 Bud Smith Jose Ortiz Randy Wolf Juan Uribe Brad Radke Jeff Weaver Roger Cedeno Edgar Martinez Luis Castillo Orlando Cabrerra Tom Glavine Tom Gordon
11 Ryan Dempster Andy Pettitte Preston Wilson Woody Williams Jim Edmonds Jeff Zimmerman Hideo Nomo Kazuhisa Ishii Toby Hall Raul Mondesi Jose Mesa Brad Penny
12 Mike Cameron Robert Preson Paul Konerko Frank Catalanotto Kevin Appier Jose Valentin Cory Lidle Tony Armas Sean Casey Eric Milton Richie Sexson Roy Halladay
13 Darin Erstad Danny Graves Jeoff Jenkins Terrance Long Jeromy Burnitz Richard Hidalgo Byung Hyun Kim Jason Marquis Kelvim Escobar Charles Johnson Eric Young Antonio Alfonseca
14 Marcus Giles Sean Burroughs Javy Lopez Jose Cruz Jr. John Burkett Pedro Astacio Joel Pineiro Jermaine Dye Carlos Pena Mike Lowell Rick Ankiel Mike Lieberthal
15 Kevin Milwood Matt Lawton Matt Herges Jason Schmidt Daryle Ward Garret Anderson A.J. Burnett Jeff Shaw Pat Burrell Shawn Estes Ben Sheets Carlos Lee
16 Jason Varitek Paul Abbott Trot Nixon Derek Lowe Mike Williams Brad Fullmer Ben Petrick Ramon Hernandez Scott Strickland John Olerud Robert Fick Roberto Herandez
17 David Wells Chuck Knoblauch Todd Walker Aaron Boone Tony Womack Carl Everett Brian Jordan Eddie Guardado Juan Cruz Mike Hampton Esteban Yan Dmitri Young
18 Nick Johnson Jarrod Washburn Edgar Rentaria Paul Quantrill Dustin Hermanson Jeff D'Amico Chad Fox Pokey Reese Brandon Duckworth Bobby Higginson Brian Lawrence Chris Carpenter
19 Todd Zeile Fred McGriff Brian Tollberg Mark McLemore Tino Martinez Jeff Fassaro Tony Clark Sidney Ponson Morgan Ensberg Rick Reed Ellis Burks Alex S. Gonzales
20 John Rocker Shane Reynolds Travis Lee Kenny Lofton Fernando Vina Glandon Rusch Octavio Dotel Danys Baez Jose Jimenez Doug Glanville Andy Ashby Luis Rivas
21 Placido Polanco Doug Mientkiewicz Jason Bere Adam Kennedy Gabe Kapler David Justice Todd Ritchie Tony Batista Vernon Wells Steve Sparks Todd Hollandsworth Bubba Trammel
22           Todd Hundley Jeremy Giambi Rickey Gutierrez A.J. Pierzynski Jeff Conine Steve Trachsel Orlando Hernandez


Catcher 1st Baseman 2nd Baseman Shortstop 3rd Baseman Outfielder Starting Pitcher Relief Pitcher
15 25 17 16 17 57 78 34



  sledge Mr. Nice Guy CanEHdian Pride Khahan Chuck Dan tduncan Strike One wazaaap_guy wiggs blockaa Mikel
C Jason Varitek Paul LoDuca Jason Kendall Ivan Rodriguez Mike Piazza Jorge Posada Ben Petrick Ramon Hernandez Toby Hall Charles Johnson Robert Fick Mike Lieberthal
1B Rafael Palmeiro Mike Sweeney Paul Konerko Mo Vaughn Jim Thome Todd Helton Ryan Klesko Jeff Bagwell Sean Casey Jason Giambi Richie Sexson Carlos Delgado
2B Marcus Giles Jose Ortiz Edgardo Alfonzo Jeff Kent Craig Biggio Brett Boone Roberto Alomar Jose Vidro Luis Castillo Ray Durham Eric Young Luis Rivas
SS Alex Rodriguez Nomar Garciaparra Jimmy Rollins Juan Uribe Miguel Tejada Jose Valentin Christian Guzman Pokey Reese Derek Jeter Orlando Cabrerra Rich Aurillia Rafael Furcal
3B Eric Chavez Sean Burroughs Troy Glaus Aaron Boone Albert Pujols Aramis Ramirez Corey Koskie Jeff Cirillo Adrian Beltre Mike Lowell Phil Nevin Chipper Jones
IF Frank Thomas Fred McGriff Javy Lopez Frank Catalanotto Tony Womack Brad Fullmer Alfonso Soriano Edgar Martinez Carlos Pena John Olerud Scott Rolen Dmitri Young
OF Brian Giles Magglio Ordonez Carlos Beltran Lance Berkman J.D. Drew Luis Gonzales Sammy Sosa Juan Gonzales Vladimir Guererro Ken Griffey Jr. Barry Bonds Ichiro Suzuki
OF Shannon Stewart Jonny Damon Preston Wilson Moises Alou Jim Edmonds Adam Dunn Shawn Green Andrew Jones Bobby Abreu Bernie Williams Manny Ramirez Gary Sheffield
OF Mike Cameron Matt Lawton Jeoff Jenkins Terrance Long Jeromy Burnitz Richard Hidalgo Roger Cedeno Juan Pierre Pat Burrell Raul Mondesi Cliff Floyd Larry Walker
OF Darrin Erstad Chuck Knoblauch Trot Nixon Jose Cruz Jr. Daryle Ward Garret Anderson Brian Jordan Jermaine Dye Vernon Wells Bobby Higginson Ellis Burks Carlos Lee
P Mike Mussina Randy Johnson Pedro Martinez Tim Hudson Barry Zito Greg Maddux Hideo Nomo Curt Schilling Javier Vazquez Roger Clemens Matt Morris Darryl Kile
P Kevin Brown Mark Buerhle Bartolo Colon Al Leiter Brad Radke Joe Mays Cory Lidle Kerry Wood Roy Oswalt Freddy Garcia Tom Glavine Jon Lieber
P Bud Smith Andy Pettitte Wade Miller Aaron Sele Kevin Appier Jeff Weaver Joel Pineiro Jamie Moyer Mark Mulder Chan Ho Park Rick Ankiel C.C. Sabathia
P Ryan Dempster Robert Person Randy Wolf Woody Williams John Burkett Pedro Astacio A.J. Burnett Kazuhisa Ishii Josh Beckett Russ Ortiz Ben Sheets Brad Penny
P Kevin Milwood Paul Abbott Brian Tollberg Jason Schmidt Dustin Hermanson Jeff D'Amico Chad Fox Tony Armas Juan Cruz Eric Milton Esteban Yan Roy Halladay
P David Wells Danny Graves Jason Bere Derek Lowe Mike Williams Jeff Fassaro Byung Hyun Kim Jason Marquis Scott Strickland Shawn Estes Jose Mesa Roberto Hernandez
P John Rocker Keith Foulke Matt Herges Paul Quantrill Ugueth Urbina Jeff Zimmerman Bob Wickman Eddie Guardado Kelvim Escobar Mike Hampton Billy Koch Antonio Alfonseca
P John Smoltz Mariano Rivera Matt Anderson Troy Percival Kazuhiro Sasaki Rob Nen Armando Benitez Jeff Shaw Billy Wagner Trevor Hoffman Jason Isringhausen Tom Gordon
Ben Nick Johnson Doug Mientkiewicz Todd Walker Mark McLemore Tino Martinez Carl Everett Tony Clark Tony Batista Morgan Ensberg Doug Glanville Todd Hollandsworh Alex S. Gonzales
Ben Todd Zeile   Edgar Rentaria Kenny Lofton Fernando Vina David Justice Jeremy Giambi Rickey Gutierrez A.J. Pierzynski Jeff Conine   Bubba Trammel
Ben Placido Polanco   Travis Lee Adam Kennedy Gabe Kapler Todd Hundley            
Ben                        
Ben                     Steve Trachsel  
Ben   Shane Reynolds         Todd Ritchie Danys Baez Brandon Duckworth Steve Sparks Andy Ashby Orlando Hernandez
Ben   Jarrod Washburn       Glandon Rusch Octavio Dotel Sidney Ponson Jose Jimenez Rick Reed Brian Lawrence Chris Carpenter
1Chuck
      ID: 35853023
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 14:58 		All right, I'm back again. As I said in the other thread, I don't have my draft list here. I'll try to look over everything, and now that it's been updated, that'll help too. Anyway, I'm working on my next pick.
2tduncan
      ID: 47616279
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 15:05 		allright, I'm out untill 9:30pm ET. probabley won't get back to me, but if it does, here is the que:

23.7 Luke Prokopec
3Chuck
      ID: 35853023
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 15:09 		22.8 Jason Bere???
4tduncan
      ID: 47616279
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 15:10 		I'm affreid not. try again.
5wiggs
      ID: 1911252811
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 15:11 		bere is gone too
6Khahan
      ID: 12432113
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 15:27 		Hey Chuck, you are up in draft 3 also. :)
7CanEHdian Pride
      ID: 426351415
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 15:28 		Does he have to pay me rent like in Monopoly? Jason Bere with a hotel is $1456 according to my property deed.
8Chuck
      ID: 35853023
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 15:29 		Jeepers...
I hate pitchers...

22.8 Robin Ventura
9Chuck
      ID: 35853023
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 15:38 		Can I assume that Ventura is a good pick? (It's a lot easier to sort through the 3B's taken as opposed to the pitchers ;-)

I picked in draft 3 earlier today... I actually didn't have to repick any of those. It's headed back the other way in that draft now.

$$ VIRTUAL CASH $$ for Pride

I am going to try to look ahead for my picks, but I'm sure I'll repick a few more before this is over. When I started, I thought we'd be done by this weekend. It didn't happen, and my parents have an "old" computer that has PerfectWorks and not Word, so I can't access any of my draft sheets.
10Khahan
      ID: 12432113
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 15:39 		22.9 Vinny Castilla
11Chuck
      ID: 35853023
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 15:39 		Lemme rephrase: I don't know if Ventura is a "good" pick, but no one else has taken him yet, right?
12Khahan
      ID: 12432113
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 15:42 		I believe he stands and I'm hoping Castilla does too. I don't see either of them listed in the chart above.
13CanEHdian Pride
      ID: 426351415
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 15:46 		22.10 Ben Grieve
14Mr. Nice Guy
      ID: 421124113
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 15:51 		22.11 Barry Larkin
15sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 16:47 		would you believe me if i told you barry larkin was my next pick. oh well. nice pick mr. nice guy. i'll be right back with ya'll.
16sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 16:50 		i'm gonna take this guy just because you just never know.

Ryan Anderson, p

He has mega - potential. Here's to hoping he comes in to his own this year.
17sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 16:52 		Ditto with this guy. You can only be a top prospect for so long. Even though he is only 22 it is time for him to produce.

23.1 Corey Patterson, of
18Chuck
      ID: 35853023
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 17:28 		I'm headed out... I'll be back around 7 (C)

I'm pretty sure this guy is good. If not, I'll try again at 7. I'm glad there are only 4 more picks left...

Kyle Farnsworth
19Mr. Nice Guy
      ID: 421124113
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 17:30 		Ok, I shall pick in a few.
20Mr. Nice Guy
      ID: 421124113
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 17:34 		You never know... 23.2 Mark Quinn
21Strike One
      ID: 356372421
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 17:40 		Eh wants

23.3 Willis Roberts
22sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 18:24 		How many rounds are we going again? i thought it was 25. Is it more? will it ever end?
23Mikel
      ID: 5814539
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 18:26 		haha sledge why dont we draft until every player in MLB is taken ;)
24Mikel
      ID: 5814539
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 18:28 		267 picks in to the draft right now BTW.
25sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 19:15 		I just can't see that any player that I pick from here on out will make any kind of contribution to my team other than possibly for trades.
26wazaaap_guy
      ID: 5178246
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 19:32 		not true sledge. personally i think these rounds are very important, especially in getting backups for risky earlier picks. i have jeter at ss but if i had nomar, i would be a little wary and want to draft a good backup ss that i wouldnt hesitate to plug into my starting lineup if nomar went down.
27Strike One
      ID: 356372421
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 20:15 		sledge, that's what i thought when i picked Paul LoDuca to back up Javy Lopez last year. stupid useless catcher. well, it helped win the league I was in last year. So put some thought into these picks, they are what make or break your season.
28sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 20:23 		i always have better luck on the waiver wire than i do in the 24th and 25 rounds. there are always a few sleepers that breakout - you just don't know who they are going to be before the season starts. We all have an idea who they may be, but it's a guessing game. I think I'll just take 2 players off my favorite team these last two rounds. if jeter goes down you'd be screwed anyway. I had nomar last year - put picked up Jimmy Rollins off the waiver wire. as I did matt morris and roy oswalt.
29sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 20:25 		Plus it's a good idea to take a player that qualifies at multiple positions. Like I did with Polanco - I believe he qualifies at 2 maybe 3 infield positions along with the outfield.
30Mikel
      ID: 5814539
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 21:58 		*******Attention*********

Yahoo Baseball is up so know we have to make a few decisions.

Rotisserie & Fantasy Points Settings:

Teams in League: 4-20

Players per Team: 8-30

Maximum Player Acquisitions:
None Allowed;
No Maximum;
1-10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40

Maximum Trades:
None Allowed;
No Maximum;
1-10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40

Waiver Period: 0-7 days

Trade Reject Time: 0-7 days

Trade Deadline:
None;
July 31, 2002;
August 7, 2002;
August 14, 2002;
August 21, 2002;
August 28, 2002

Players From:
All of baseball;
AL only;
NL only

Maximum Games per Position (Non-Pitchers):
None;
145, 150, 155, 160, 162, 165, 170, 175, 180

Maximum Innings Pitched per Team:
None;
100-2000 (Increments of 50)

Trade Offers Expire in: 10 days


Thats is straight from Yahoo.

31Mr. Nice Guy
      ID: 421124113
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 22:01 		rotisserie, no max for either, no deadline, 162 game max, 1200 ip max
32wazaaap_guy
      ID: 5178246
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 22:18 		roto, no max, no max, maybe like 2 days waiver period so people who aren't able to check in for a while still have the chance to get who they want, maybe like 2 days for trade reviews also, i don't care what we decide for trade deadline but i think we shouldn't have one also, 162, 1200 sounds good but i could have sworn that yahoo last year had 1000, trade offer expires doesn't really matter if they don't accept it after they see it once chances are they won't accept it later.
33Strike One
      ID: 356372421
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 22:19 		-roto
-12 team (duh)
-25 players (duh jr)
-no maxes, 3 day waiver period
-3 day reject time
-aug 21 trade deadline
-players from both leagues (duh III)
-162 games per posistion
-1300 IP max for pitchers
34Strike One
      ID: 356372421
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 22:58 		khahan, where are you?
35tduncan
      ID: 47616279
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 23:13 		I don't know if it's possible, but I think the best system is:

- 162 games per position.
- no limit on IP.
- WEEKLY lineup changes.
36Mr. Nice Guy
      ID: 421124113
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 23:18 		td: If you're not going to limit the innings, why limit the games played for hitters?
37Strike One
      ID: 356372421
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 23:20 		in a public league the max inngings is 1250 IP and that's for 7 pitchers.
38tduncan
      ID: 47616279
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 23:45 		I had this discussion with EH a few days ago.

IMO, because IP is a stat determined by the game, so it shouldn't be limitted in any way. it's like limiting minutes played in bball or pass attemps in football.

we can't limit games started, because closers doesn't start games, but weekly lineup changes should solve all this. let the bench be bench.
39Strike One
      ID: 356372421
      Thu, Feb 21, 2002, 23:52 		weekly changes on MONDAY
40Mr. Nice Guy
      ID: 421124113
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 00:03 		Oh, so you can only change your team around on Mondays then? Fine w/ me. One question though, what if one of your players gets injured in the middle of the week... does this force you to keep him on your roster until the next monday?
41sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 00:44 		I am agreeable to most everything above. IIRC in sandbox we were limited to 162 starts and 140 relief appearances for pitchers. For hitters it was 162 games per position. Most relief pitching appearances are obviously about 1 inning so that is 140 innings or so. 162 starts times approx 7 innings per start would be 1134 innings. That's 1274 innings total. I think we would be very safe with 1,300 innings. We need to put a limit on it in some way. I don't think it would need to be any higher than 1,500 innings max.
42sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 00:49 		I don't like the Monday roster change. That's why we draft backup players. If a guy pulls a hamstring on Tuesday why would you need to wait a week to replace him in your lineup. I change my rosters alot according to ballparks, pitching matchups, threat of weather cancelations (especially early in the season). I don't see any need to have lineup changes only on Mondays. Tell Joe Torre to submit his lineup card for the week on Monday, yeah right.
43wiggs
      ID: 1911252811
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 00:51 		IMO, i think we should be able to have daily changes, i see that no one else likes that, but i think it important to be able to make moves anytime you want. Besides, it might be hard to make all your moves on monday.
44blockaa
      Donor
      ID: 550321519
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 01:08 		sledge . . . I think that sounds reasonable . . . a 1300 IP limit.
45blockaa
      Donor
      ID: 550321519
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 01:11 		Yeah . . . now that I think about it . . . an IP limit is totally unnecessary if you're only going to allow weekly changes. I have to agree with wiggs - daily changes.

1300 IP limit and daily changes is my vote
46wiggs
      ID: 1911252811
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 01:14 		blockaa, i 2nd that
47sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 01:38 		make it 3 votes for 1,300 inn. and daily changes
48Mikel
      ID: 5814539
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 01:47 		time for my vote,

no max

no max

waive period 3 days

Trade reject time 4 days

trade deadline August 21. Id like to see a time at the end of the year where we just have to push with the teams that we have.

if we decide on weekly roster changes i agree with NO IP requirements. If we go Daily 1300 is perfect.

49tduncan
      ID: 47616279
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 06:22 		as I stated in post 38, I think limiting IP is a bad idea.

also, I don't understand whats the big deal about having to wait 6 days MAX to make a change.

wiggs, you won't have to make your changes specificly on monday. you could change your lineup every day of the week, but the changes will actually be effective starting the next monday.

another reason: I don't think the bench should be used as a tool to rotate your pitchers. the bench should contain your backups, players you throw in there if one of your regulars is hurt. it's also a place to hold your injured players, or minor league sleepers you think will emerge later in the season.

so my vote is weekly changes and no IP limit.
50Khahan
      ID: 12432113
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 07:29 		researching my pick now.
51Khahan
      ID: 12432113
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 07:42 		23.4 Jose Hernandez
Can we finish 1 1/2 rounds by 4pm today?
52Khahan
      ID: 12432113
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 07:50 		My vote is for daily line up changes and why limit innings pitched? Like whats noted above, its a factor of how the game is played.
Basically, it punishes people who take good pitchers.
If you have a workhorse like Curt Schilling and are nearing you innings pitched limit at the end of season, you may have to consider skipping his starts. Why? Because he does his job well.
Limiting innings pitched is a bit silly to me.
53Khahan
      ID: 12432113
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 07:50 		Also, can we maybe get a link posted in this thread to our division?
54CanEHdian Pride
      ID: 426351415
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 09:15 		Daily changes, 1300 IPs

There has to be an innings pitched limit or I could rotate my 5th and 6th starters by picking up guys off the WW thus getting extra games. 1300 IPs is plenty when considering "work horses" and adds more strategy to the game (should go to a 4 man rotation this week....like a real manager/GM has to decide)
55wazaaap_guy
      ID: 5178246
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 09:15 		i vote daily changes with 1300 ip limit.
56Mikel
      ID: 5814539
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 10:00 		Alright as we stand now:

1300 IP

W_G
Sledge
wiggs
blockaa
SO
cEHp
Mikel
MNG (1200 IP)

NO Limit

Khahan
Tduncan

Daily

W_G
Khahan
Sledge
Wiggs
Blockaa
cEHp
Mikel

Weekly

Tduncan
SO

Chuck and Dan still need to vote and MNG hasn't voted for Weekly or Daily Changes.
57Strike One
      ID: 356372421
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 10:16 		Khahan, if we do daily linueup changes then there needs to be a limit on IP, it's just one of those roto rules. It's not going to punish those who have workhorses like Curt Schilling, it's going to punish those that make linuep changes everyday so they can always have 2-3 pitchers starting a night.
58Strike One
      ID: 356372421
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 10:22 		i'll put khahan pick in bold

23.4 Jose Hernandez

Chuck is on the clock
Dan is on deck
tduncan is in the hole
59Khahan
      ID: 12432113
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 11:07 		Ok, I'll change my vote, daily line up changes and 1300 inning limit. From what the more experienced players say, that sounds to be enough.
60Strike One
      ID: 356372421
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 12:05 		Guys, i got a game tonight, I won't be around. leaving a queue with Mikel.
61Chuck
      ID: 35853023
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 13:38 		My pick was in post 18...

I really don't think he'll make a difference, but I think he is still available:

23.5 Kyle Farnsworth
62wiggs
      ID: 1911252811
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 15:40 		i am willing to go with unlimited innings, but i still support the daily changes.
63Khahan
      ID: 12432113
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 15:44 		I sent my que to Sledge. Hopefully he'll get it. I'mout of here until Sunday late evening. I may get to stop in later tonight, probably around 10:30 or so, but I'm not positive.
64Mr. Nice Guy
      ID: 421124113
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 16:03 		I'll go for unlimited ip/daily.. this way we can go all out.. (granted, it doesn't take a whole lotta strategy, but it would probably be more fun this way)
65wiggs
      ID: 1911252811
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 16:39 		i guess we are stuck, i am going out for a little bit i will leave a short queue if someone is around. If not, i will pick when i get home.
66wiggs
      ID: 1911252811
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 16:43 		ok, guess no one wants it, i am out. peace.
67Dan
      Donor
      ID: 371211321
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 17:20 		23.6 Albie Lopez
68Mikel
      ID: 5814539
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 17:53 		I'm going to the Michigan Hockey game tonight...(gotta love free tix). I have SO's Queue. ill send it to someone

Im sorry to say i dont have a que ready and i have to run out the door now. Ill be back around 12 or so.

SOrry if this puts people in a bad spot.
69sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Fri, Feb 22, 2002, 22:56 		I am back and I did receive a queue for Khahan via e-mail for when his turn comes. Where's tdunc? Looks like we've been stuck for a little while.
70sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 00:59 		where'd everybody go??
71tduncan
      ID: 47616279
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 02:43 		c'mon... my pick was in post 2 all the time.

23.7 Luke Prokopec
72sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 09:45 		whoops! Guess we dropped the ball on that one
73blockaa
      Donor
      ID: 550321519
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 11:19 		Strike One . . . e-mail or (better yet) instant message me (MvpRamirez) when you get the chance.

Also . . I've got a one-pick queue from wiggs.
74Mikel
      ID: 5814539
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 11:24 		SO wants:

23.8 Miguel Batista
75wazaaap_guy
      ID: 5178246
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 11:40 		23.9 Carlos Hernandez
76blockaa
      Donor
      ID: 550321519
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 11:52 		23.10 Rick Helling taken by wiggs

I'll make my pick shortly
77Mikel
      ID: 5814539
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 12:10 		Well even without Chuck and Dans votes we have a Majority so our league is going to be 1300 IPand Daily Changes.

Teams - 12

Players/team - 25

Maximum Player Acquisitions - No Max

Maximum Trades - No Max

Players From - Both Leagues

Maximum Games per Position - 162

Maximum Innings Pitched per Team - 1300 IP

Trade Offers Expire in: 10 days

Waiver Period - 3

Trade Reject Time - 3


We still need to decide on a Trade Deadline

NO Deadline - WG

August 21 - Mikel, SO

August 14 -

August 7 -

July 31 -

Once we get this figured out I'll make the league





78Mr. Nice Guy
      ID: 421124113
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 12:22 		I vote for no deadline
79blockaa
      Donor
      ID: 550321519
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 12:42 		23.11 Derrek Lee
80blockaa
      Donor
      ID: 550321519
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 12:48 		I've played in alot of fantasy leagues over the years and trading never really seems to matter much. Guys pick their teams and are usually unwilling to part with their players. There is the occasional 'wheeler and dealer', but I think that's rare. I would probably vote for an August 14th deadline, but since it probably won't be much of an issue anyway, I'll go with SO and Mikel and say the 21st.
81wiggs
      ID: 1911252811
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 12:53 		i vote for no deadline, only because i have had seasons were i have run out of starts and then i was able to trade a quality player for a position i was weak in. Peace
82Strike One
      ID: 356372421
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 12:54 		the reason we need a trade deadline is so we don't have any trading going on during the playoffs.
83wiggs
      ID: 1911252811
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 13:01 		well one thing we can do is allow no one that has been eliminated from the playoffs can make trades. or just make the deadline the first day of the playoffs. It doesnt really matter much to me.
84wiggs
      ID: 1911252811
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 13:03 		i am out, left a queue with SO. PEace
85Mikel not @ home
      ID: 5065547
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 13:05 		23.12 Glendon Rusch

24.1 Mitch Meluskey
86Strike One
      ID: 356372421
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 13:07 		rusch was already taken, 20.7
87Mikel not @ home
      ID: 5065547
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 13:13 		sorry 23.12 Jamey Wright
88tduncan
      ID: 47616279
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 13:17 		what playoffs? it's a roto league.

wiggs (post 81): another ugly side to the IP limit thing. exactly wich "real" MLB GM (you guys seem to like that example) stops using his pitchers before the season ends and trades them for better hitting?

my vote is july 31th, but I will go for august 21st if thats the prefered deadline.
89blockaa
      Donor
      ID: 550321519
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 13:23 		24.2 Bruce Chen

I think this could turn out to be a decent guy if he makes the Mets starting rotation.
90Strike One
      ID: 356372421
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 13:33 		lol, good call tduncan, my mind escaped me there for a moment :P

wiggs takes
24.3 Reggie Sanders
91tduncan
      ID: 47616279
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 13:48 		I have to go. I want my next pick to be:
24.6 Rondell White
92wiggs
      ID: 1911252811
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 15:55 		tduncan, just out of curiousity, is there a limit in MBL on how many innings some one can throw? That might have somehting to do with why MLB managers dont trade their pitchers at the end of the year.
93wazaaap_guy
      ID: 5178246
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 16:10 		24.4 Torii Hunter
94Strike One
      ID: 356372421
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 17:00 		24.5 Brett Mayne

tduncan takes
24.6 Rondell White
95Dan
      Donor
      ID: 371211321
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 18:02 		24.7 Mike Stanton
96sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 18:17 		chuck is up - and I've got a queue for Khahan for the next pick,but I'm gonna be leaving in an hour
97 Strike One
      ID: 356372421
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 19:07 		feel free to e-mail me the queue if you have to leave sledge.
98sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 19:12 		I forwarded the queue for Khahan and also a queue for myself strike one. Thanks . I hope you got it ok -- and I'm out
99Chuck
      ID: 35853023
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 20:52 		24.8 Einar Diaz
100CanEHdian Pride
      ID: 426351415
      Sat, Feb 23, 2002, 21:01 		Here's my pick below....(no peeking)

Dean Palmer
101blockaa
      Donor
      ID: 550321519
      Sun, Feb 24, 2002, 00:41 		wazaaap_guy . . . I sent you and e-mail. Get back with me ASAP on that . . .

I'm away from the computer for the next 12+ hours. We're so close, I can taste it. I'm guessing we finish tomorrow (2/23). Later . . .
102blockaa
      Donor
      ID: 550321519
      Sun, Feb 24, 2002, 00:44 		wazaaap_guy . . . I sent you an e-mail. Get back with me ASAP on that . . .

I'm away from the computer for the next 12+ hours. We're so close I can taste it. I'm guessing we finish tomorrow(2/24). Later . . .
103Strike One
      ID: 356372421
      Sun, Feb 24, 2002, 12:48 		khahan takes
24.9 Julio Lugo

cEHp takes from #100
24.10 Dean Palmer
104Mr. Nice Guy
      ID: 421124113
      Sun, Feb 24, 2002, 13:03 		alright alright, I will pick.
105Mr. Nice Guy
      ID: 421124113
      Sun, Feb 24, 2002, 13:04 		24.11 Joe Randa
106Strike One
      ID: 356372421
      Sun, Feb 24, 2002, 13:08 		sledge takes
24.12 Carlos Febles

and as we head into the FINAL ROUND!! YES!!!

he takes
25.1 Dee Brown
107Mr. Nice Guy
      ID: 421124113
      Sun, Feb 24, 2002, 13:12 		25.2 Ramon Ortiz
108CanEHdian Pride
      ID: 426351415
      Sun, Feb 24, 2002, 14:16 		Got a good feeling about this fella:

25.3 James Baldwin
109tduncan
      ID: 47616279
      Sun, Feb 24, 2002, 16:32 		looks like we will finish this tonight. I want my last pick to be:

25.7 Ruben Quevedo
110Strike One
      ID: 356372421
      Sun, Feb 24, 2002, 18:51 		khahan takes
25.4 Kevin Millar
111Chuck
      ID: 501351722
      Sun, Feb 24, 2002, 23:10 		I'm pretty sure 25.5 Matt Mantei is still available.

I'm glad this draft is finally over... ;-)
112wiggs
      ID: 810271513
      Sun, Feb 24, 2002, 23:30 		is this draft set up in the yahoo league yet?
113wiggs
      ID: 810271513
      Sun, Feb 24, 2002, 23:30 		is this draft set up in the yahoo league yet?
114sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 00:45 		I just took a look back at the start date of our draft. February 6 . I can't believe we are into our 3rd week. Thank God it's almost over.
115sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 00:51 		Overall I am pretty satisfied with my draft. Outside of my need for a good 2nd relief pitcher I have a pretty balanced team. I am kind of backwards though - it looks like more of my power numbers will come from the infield and my speed numbers come from the outfield. I like my starting pitching staff. We'll see where it takes me. Good luck with the season guys. And even though it has taken forever it's been a pretty enjoyable draft, and I've really enjoyed some of the IM conversations that I've had. It's fun to get to know the guys you are playing with.
116blockaa
      Donor
      ID: 550321519
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 11:35 		Dan . . . where are you? We'd have finished this 4 or 5 days ago if Dan was prompt with his picks.
117Mikel @ school
      ID: 569283112
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 12:37 		We seem to be pretty split on the Trade Deadline right now...

NO Deadline - WG, MNG, wiggs

August 21 - Mikel, SO, blockaa, tduncan
118Mikel @ school
      ID: 569283112
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 13:00 		just talked to Dan and he wants a trade deadline too. Chalk up 5 for the 21st and 3 for None.
119Dan
      ID: 461102512
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 13:03 		25.6 Josh Towers
120tduncan
      ID: 47616279
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 13:19 		25.7 Ruben Quevedo
121sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 13:23 		Put me down for a trade deadline. Aug 21 is fine by me.
122Mikel @ school
      ID: 569283112
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 13:25 		6 for Trade Deadline

3 for none

Just one more vote and we have a majority. Then i can make the league
123Mikel @ school
      ID: 569283112
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 13:36 		just talked to Khahan...he doesnt want a Deadline

6 votes yes

4 votes no
124tduncan
      ID: 47616279
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 13:37 		mikel you break the tie even if it would end up 6-6, so you can make the league now.
125blockaa
      Donor
      ID: 550321519
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 13:38 		Dan . . congratulations on getting in all 25 picks . . ;)

wazaaap and Strike - check your e-mail; I sent out some some stuff about deadlines for league fees and need you guys to respond. If either of you decide you don't want in, that's fine. Just let me know ASAP. I've still got a couple of other guys who say they want in if anyone backs out.
126wiggs
      ID: 810271513
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 13:44 		i say that there either has to be no trade deadline or no limit to how many pitching innings there can be. It isnt somethign that can be done after the draft. I selected 6 solid SPs because I was going for the best team. If I knew that there was a limit I would have picked a position player in place of a pitcher. Due to this i should still be able to use my pitchers and then trade out of them when i run out of starts.
127Chuck
      ID: 501351722
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 14:24 		I vote no deadline...

wiggs: counter to your point, though, I assumed there would be an inning limit-- has been in the other leagues I have been in. Had I known there was not inning limit, I may have drafted more starters.
128wiggs
      ID: 810271513
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 14:29 		i feel like if we limit innings pitched we should also limit number of games a pos play can play and maybe only start 2 Outfieldsrs or something like that. Its the same thing because you can go out an grab the best available position player if your guy is out for a day or two. It is the same thing.
129Khahan
      ID: 567232217
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 14:32 		Here's a question. People are concerned about innings pitched limits and trade deadlines because they are worried some people might drop a pitcher, then pick up another pitcher off the wire and start him and essentially start different pitchers every night. How about this:
We just don't do that?
I'm all for competitiveness and all, but can't we just sit down and say, "The spirit of this game is to see who can draft and field the best team. Don't do anything that is so obviously against the spirit of the game."
Its always seemed to me that rather than bogging people down with rules that are there solely to prevent abuse, lets just ask each other not to abuse.


130tduncan
      ID: 47616279
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 14:37 		it can all be solved with 1 simple rule:
weekly lineup changes.
131wazaaap_guy
      ID: 5178246
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 14:41 		If you guys want a trade deadline, then I am fine with that. But there definitely has to be an innings pitched limit in my opinion. the whole roto concept is about strategy, getting good pitchers and hitters that will help you in each category. it is also a strategy to manage your pitchers' innings so you don't go over the limit. i don't think its bad spirit in any sense if someone wants to pick up pitchers off the waiver wire and plug them into their starting rotation, this is their own strategy and they should be able to do it if they want, but there should be a consequence for doing so--that it counts towards your ip limit, and these managers wouldn't be able to carry on in this way very long. wiggs, i thought we did limit the number of games a position can play, and if we didn't we certainly should imo. 162 at a position is normal, so you have to judge for yourself whether you want to start your backup on your starter's off days. chances are for the most part that starter's will not play 162 games anyway, but even so there should be a limit. also, what would the point of starting 2 OF be? we drafted with the intention of starting 4, so this would unnecessarily penalize those who grabbed good OF early on.
132wiggs
      ID: 810271513
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 14:41 		cant do weekly changes, its to hard to know what is going to happen a week in advance.

i like Khahans idea of just not picking up guys for just one start. Pitching changes have to be long term or because of an injury
133sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 14:42 		Isn't there generally a 162 game limit per position in all these draft style fantasy games. There has been in the ones I've played anyway. The trade deadline is just setup so that at some point in the season you will be playing with the hand you are dealt. It's likely to be only the last month of the season anyway. It's very rare to see trades accomlished after August 1 anyway - most everybody is set and does not want to make trades anyway. As far as the outfield goes I think we are having 4 positions @ 162 games each correct. And your five infielders plus the utility spot for 162 games each. The innings pitched limit is an absolute must - 1300 right.
134wiggs
      ID: 810271513
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 14:44 		wazaap, exactly my point, it would penalize people for having a good draft. Well i feel like with an IP limit i am being punished. We decided on 7 pitchers and we should be able to use the 7 pitchers, just like we decided on 4 OFs and should be able to use 4 OFs. I dont hear anyone saying that you can only use those 4 OFs for 500 innings played. It is the same thing.
135wiggs
      ID: 810271513
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 14:47 		i guess i am getting no where with my side of this. It is just to bad that this wasnt brought up until so late into the draft. My team is getting punished because we are changing rules after the picks have been made. Doesnt anyone see what i am saying about the picks? I could have picked a position player if i knew we were limited.
136sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 14:48 		all players - pitchers and hitters are getting basically the same 162 games. The 1300 innings limit is basically 162 starts times 7 innings for 1134 innings and 140 relief appearances times 1 inning. that is a total of 1274 innings plus an extra 16 innings to work with.
137tduncan
      ID: 47616279
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 14:49 		finnaly wiggs, you are getting my point.

IP IS A STAT DETERMINED BY THE GAME!

the good pitchers get more IP. there is no such thing as "managing" your IP, because there is no way to know for how many innings your pitchers will go.
138sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 14:50 		It doesn't matter about the picks. 162 games MLB season , and 162 games per position. You decide how you want to use them.
139wiggs
      ID: 810271513
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 14:52 		Tduncan, i am talking that you dont know what is going to happen in a game, how pissed are you going to be when you set your line up on monday and alomar and sosa both get injured monday night and you can do nothing about it til next monday? I am sure you wont be happy. Or your closer blows his elbow and you get nothing from him for a week. Weekly changes are not going to work.
140wiggs
      ID: 810271513
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 14:54 		It does matter about picks. Joe Torre isnt limited to the amount of innings he can pitch his pitchers. If Clemens and Mussina were able to pitch every game then they could.
141tduncan
      ID: 47616279
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 14:55 		sledge: where did you cam out with the idea that every starting pitcher go for 7 innings every start?

and why limiting only 140 releif appearences?

wiggs: thats a part of the game I can live with if that what it takes to make the whole IP limit go away.
142wiggs
      ID: 810271513
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 14:57 		weekly changes make no sense.
143tduncan
      ID: 47616279
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 15:02 		IP limit sucks. you know it, and I know it (altought it fits my team pefectly).

The worst thing that can happen with weekly changes is that you won't get any at bets from a position player for MAXIMUM 6 days. thats a small price to pay.
144sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 15:02 		That is an average. 7 innings per start is ususally a max then the setup guy and the closer. Occassionally it's different, but it's an average. If you guys would look at the pitching innings limit as a games played limit of 162 it will make much more sense to you. It's really not as tough as you are making it. And definitely nothing to get worked up over.
145Chuck
      ID: 501351722
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 15:03 		In the blue corner, we have the tag team of wiggs and tduncan. In the red corner we have sledge...

Let's get ready to rumble!!

Honestly, I don't care about most of this. I'll beat you all no matter what the rules are... That's because I have the 2nd best team. ;-)
146Chuck
      ID: 501351722
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 15:05 		Crazy me... what if we went with no limits at any position: There is less strategy in management, and more focus on who to start, not when to start them...

Am I really serious about this? No, b/c I'm sure there are some flaws, but are there specific reasons why this can't work?
147wiggs
      ID: 810271513
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 15:05 		i dont think Tduncan and I are on the same team, i think it is a 3 way dance here.
148sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 15:06 		Sorry guys - I'm a lover not a fighter. The dance floor is all yours.
149sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 15:13 		Joe Torre is limited by a 162 game schedule. Just as we are. 162 9 inning games is 1458 innings. But obviously his starters won't pitch all 1458 innings right
150wiggs
      ID: 810271513
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 15:15 		no but some one will.
151wiggs
      ID: 810271513
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 15:16 		your catchers arent going to play all 162 either, but there is still room for them to do that.
152sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 15:16 		I didn't see you picking up any journeyman middle relievers in your draft - did anyone else?
153wiggs
      ID: 810271513
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 15:18 		alright, i have nothing more to say on this topic, it is like talking to a wall. Do what you all want.
154sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 15:20 		Catchers ? Outside of Pudge and Piazza is anyone really going to put up any kind of numbers that will help your squad? It's a 162 game limit per position not per man. If you want 162 games out of your catcher spot you'd better pick up backup and insert him on your starters off days.
155wiggs
      ID: 810271513
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 15:20 		no one takes middle relief because holds isnt a category. Of course you wouldnt. But someone like ramiro mendozs (sp) would be a good pick up if it meant anythign. but with innings pitched limited no one ever will.
156Chuck
      ID: 501351722
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 15:21 		wiggs-- I think it would be helpful to start a new thread that summarizes the different sides. It will be hard to decide too much right now, anyway, since only about 3 or 4 of us are on. It would help to get the draft finished, too. It will be easier to talk once we get the final 5 picks out of the way, I think.
157wiggs
      ID: 810271513
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 15:21 		yeah, posada, Loduca, Kendall and charles johnson will put up numbers too.
158wazaaap_guy
      ID: 5178246
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 15:28 		wiggs we're doing you a favor, you don't want those mike hampton innings.
159Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 1832399
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 15:31 		Sorry if I'm butting into something that isn't my business here, but I am interested since this issue is sure to come up in the league I am drafting for now with wiggs, EH, Dan and Mikel. Have you considered just limiting GS? If a typical SP starts 30 games per year, why not limit your staff to, say 190 GS for the year? That would allow people to rotate in relief pitchers as they see fit when they want to conserve starts, and possibly could give value to middle reliever types. I suppose some might have drafted somewhat differently if this were established earlier, though. Just a thought.
160wiggs
      ID: 810271513
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 15:34 		MITH, thats exactly my point, i would have definately picked differently. As far as hampton, i will take his innings, i think he is a good pitcher.
161Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 1832399
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 15:38 		Well, I'd like for this and any other potentially disagreeable issues to be settled in our league before our draft hits its final stages.
162Khahan
      ID: 567232217
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 15:58 		Ok, so the argument to put a limit on innings pitched is that on average starters only pitch 7 innings. I can live with that.
What about the final 2 innings though?
Who pitches those? If I'm reading this right, innings pitched limit goes against starters and closers. So, if every one of my starters pitches every game they are supposed to and pitches a full 7 innings in all those game, that means I cannot use my relief pitchers, right?
What about extra innings?
I can deal with an innings pitched limit, but only if its 1450-1500. That is 162 games 9 innings a game. That way, our pitchers have the same access to the same number of innings as our hitters do. Fair?
163wiggs
      ID: 810271513
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 16:07 		i just added up my innings of my 6 main pitchers and 1 RP and it comes to 1555 from last year, that would eliminate an entire pitcher.
164sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 17:33 		Khahan - you didn't do all the math. 162 times 7 is 1134 innings. you still have 156 innings for your relievers to get to 1300
165sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 17:36 		i guess i didn't do all the match that is 166 innings for relievers. 4 innings over the 162 game limit.
166Strike One
      ID: 356372421
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 18:30 		25.8 Juan Encarnacion
167wazaaap_guy
      ID: 5178246
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 21:00 		25.9 Derek Lowe
168wiggs
      ID: 810271513
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 21:03 		25.10 chad fox
169wiggs
      ID: 810271513
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 21:17 		25.10 Jason Tyner
170CanEHdian Pride
      ID: 426351415
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 21:19 		Derek Lowe is gone wg.
171Khahan
      ID: 567232217
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 21:19 		I'm screwing with everybody's pitchers here. Wazaap guy, I already have Derek Lowe. sorry.
172wazaaap_guy
      ID: 5178246
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 21:36 		sorry 25.9 Jason Johnson
173blockaa
      Donor
      ID: 550321519
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 21:36 		Won't be back until at least May . . .
25.11 Kris Benson
174Mr. Nice Guy
      ID: 421124113
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 21:53 		Mikel let's bring this thing home!
175Strike One
      ID: 356372421
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 22:00 		no, i say you stall for a couple of days
:P
176Mikel
      ID: 33156417
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 22:12 		Ok...Drum Roll Please,

With the last pick in the "Not So Mock Draft" i pick,

25.12 Ron Belliard
177Khahan
      ID: 567232217
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 22:16 		Ok, so we are done then?
Tduncan, is it possible for you to post a final graph?
I don't think we necessarily need the completed round by round graph, but it would be great if you could do the finalized version of the graph that has our players broken out by position.
And thank you for keeping up with that throughout the draft, too.
178sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 22:24 		It's over baby! That was alot of fun. Even though it took forever. I'm looking forward to the season now and also to checking out our league when things get set up on yahoo. It's trading time guys.
179sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 22:26 		Anyone that feels like making draft analysis feel free to do so. Now that the draft is over we'll get a good idea of what everyone thinks.
180sledge
      ID: 211241916
      Mon, Feb 25, 2002, 22:28 		Just remember that slamming on someone's team is like making "your momma jokes" in the locker room. You know like - you keep my momma outta this & and i'll keep this outta your momma.
181tduncan
      ID: 47616279
      Tue, Feb 26, 2002, 03:31 		I started a new thread with the new charts.
182blockaa
      Donor
      ID: 550321519
      Tue, Feb 26, 2002, 12:43 		In an attempt to make everyone happy, I am changing my vote.

1300 IP limit
Daily roster moves
No trade deadline
183Mikel @ school
      ID: 569283112
      Tue, Feb 26, 2002, 12:47 		Looks good blockaa, it seems that we have had some problems with making up the rules and it seems that makeing the league 1300 IP, Daily, and No Trade Deadline will be the closest we can get to making everyone happy.

I'll be making the league right now.

Hope everyone has a lot of fun in the first ever NOT SO MOCK DRAFT!!!!!
184tduncan
      ID: 47616279
      Tue, Feb 26, 2002, 12:59 		WHAT???

you just opened the door for the ugly strategy wiggs has suggested before.

probably the worst settings possible.
185CanEHdian Pride
      ID: 426351415
      Tue, Feb 26, 2002, 13:09 		I don't see the problem with having a trade deadline. Last league I was in there were hardly any trades let alone trades late in the year. The only REAL reason someone would want to make a trade late in the year is if it was a keeper league and they wanted to trade a stud to a contender for a possible keeper.

August 14th
186wiggs
      ID: 810271513
      Tue, Feb 26, 2002, 13:16 		Pride, if there is no trading going on anyways, you have nothing to worry about. It is always nice to have an option though.

Tduncan. i dont know what you are not liking, you got your inning limit rule you wanted. You say that 1300 is plenty of innings, well i figured out yesterday if i start my top 5 pitchers and 2 relievers i will still go over 1300 by over 100 innings. That is with out changing a single pitcher all season. 1300 isnt that many innings. All pitchers these days with the exception of injuries hit the 200 + inning mark.
187tduncan
      ID: 47616279
      Tue, Feb 26, 2002, 13:18 		or... if it's not a keeper league, the guy maxed out hit limited IP, and he now trades all his pitchers for better hitting.

and thats not suppose to happen.
188tduncan
      ID: 47616279
      Tue, Feb 26, 2002, 13:21 		thats right wiggs... and where did you get the idea I want the IP limit? I was the only one against that when we voted earlier.

you guys know what my opinion is. but if we are not going with weekly changes, and we are doing IP limit, a trading deadline is a must.
189wiggs
      ID: 810271513
      Tue, Feb 26, 2002, 13:35 		tduncan, you are like talking to a wall. Weekly changes are dumb, they make no sense. I agreed to the limit, but dam right, when i run out of ips i am going to trade for hitters. There was no talk of limits when i drafted and i loaded up on pitching. I am not going to get punished for this.
190Mikel @ school
      ID: 569283112
      Tue, Feb 26, 2002, 13:43 		OK everyone I already made the league...I can still change Trade Deadline So everyone tell me what you want...this is where you can discuss what you want and why you want it.

This is the final vote what ever comes out of this will be FINAL.

We have 1300 IP
We have Daily changes (those cannot be changed)

After this vote please no more Complaining Please lets all be Adults here.

BTW: the League is at yahoo

ID - 52557
pw - rotoguru
191Mikel @ school
      ID: 569283112
      Tue, Feb 26, 2002, 13:43 		wanted to make this a new thread

one sec
ill deleate this
192tduncan
      ID: 47616279
      Tue, Feb 26, 2002, 13:44 		thats right wiggs, you should be able to start all your starting pitchers, for the WHOLE season, NO MATTER FOR HOW INNINGS THEY GO.

we don't need the IP limit thing at all. it's a dumb thing to limit.

BUT... in order to prevent people from shifting roatetions and start 8 different pitcher every day, we need to make the lineup changes weekly. IT'S A SMALL PRICE TO PAY!

I actually feel like I'm talking to a wall too. but this is the last time I'm metionning this. do whatever you want. I will play either way.
193Mikel @ school
      ID: 569283112
      Tue, Feb 26, 2002, 13:46 		NEW THREAD!!!!!!
194Strike One
      ID: 356372421
      Tue, Feb 26, 2002, 20:56 		i joined
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