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Subject: UKL Discussion- Post Draft
Posted by: Farn
- [171128623] Thu, Mar 21, 2002, 13:54
Time to open up a new thread to save page loading and have some post draft chat. So how bout we all post our rosters (or potions or whatever), break them down, and discuss favorites and such. |
| 1 | Farn
ID: 171128623
Thu, Mar 21, 2002, 14:00
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Farn's Stars
Contracts in ()
Catcher: Charles Johnson (3)
1st Base: Jeff Bagwell (3)
2nd Base: Craig Biggio(3)
3rd Base: Jeff Cirillo (1)
Shortstop: Derek Jeter (5)
Corner Infield: Mo Vaughn (3)
Middle Infield: Todd Walker (2)
Outfield: Brian Giles (3)
Outfield: Ken Griffey Jr. (4)
Outfield: Andrew Jones (3)
Outfield: Reggie Sanders (1)
Designated Hitter: Mike Lieberthal (3)
Pitchers:
Randy Johnson (4)
Roger Clemens (3)
Rick Reed (1)
Eric Milton (2)
David Wells (2)
Jarrod Washburn (1)
Troy Percival (3)
Danny Graves (3)
Shane Reynolds (1)
Bench:
Terrence Long (1)
Tino Martinez (1)
Eric Young (1)
Kevin Young (1)
Pokey Reese (1)
Albie Lopez (1)
Scott Erickson (1)
Eddie Guardado (1)
Woody Williams (1)
Total $63
Prospects
1. Aaron Rowand
2. Nate Cornejo
3. Chris Smith
4. Eric Munson
5. Marcus Thames
6. Dustan Mohr
7. Casey Fossum
8. Tim Raines Jr.
9. Carlos Zambrano
10. Brendan Harris
My Own Evaluation: not to be arrogant, but my roster is loaded top to bottom. If a team beats me it will be because I have a couple of injuries or somebody has a team of career years. My only real weakness is stolen bases. Fire away with criticisms.
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| 2 | wiggs
ID: 131122820
Thu, Mar 21, 2002, 15:01
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Farn, although your team is strong you are not guaranteed to win anything. I will be sure to challenge you from start to finish. May the best team win.
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| 4 | wiggs
ID: 131122820
Thu, Mar 21, 2002, 15:31
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Team Vestal
Manager Wiggs
C-Ramon Hernandez
1B- Helton
2B- Durham
3B- Glaus
SS- Aurillia
CI- Amaris Ramirez
MI- Cabrera
OF Bonds
OF Pierre
OF Steart
OF Mondesi
DH Frank Thomas
P Hudson
P Kile
P Russ Ortiz
P Robert Person
P Aaron Sele
P Millwood
P Kaz Sasaki
P Mesa
P Kim
Bench
Everett
Armas Jr
Dmitri Young
Casey
Jason Bere
Fullmer
Womak
Millar
Hundley
Prospects
Dewon C Brazelton
Gavin Floyd
Josh Karp
John Van Benscgoten
Michael Coleman
Chris Burke
Johnathon Griffen
Aaron Heilman
Michael Fontenot
John Ford Griffin
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| 5 | Farn
ID: 2310151714
Thu, Mar 21, 2002, 19:17
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a good squad wiggs. i think my starting pitchers are much stronger than yours, especially my 1-2 punch. closers could go either way, depending on whether the Angels and Reds play well and if B-H Kim shakes last season's meltdown.
You might be my biggest test. Puff too has a solid squad. Anybody else think they have a chance?
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| 6 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 42109719
Thu, Mar 21, 2002, 19:40
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Can we release players before the season starts? And can we get some team charts, and nifty stuff, etc.?
THK
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| 7 | Tavo
ID: 4525319
Thu, Mar 21, 2002, 20:03
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C - Ivan Rodriguez
1B - Richie Sexson
2B - Jose Ortiz
3B - Eric Chavez
SS - Rafael Furcal
CI - Fred Mcgriff
MI - Tony Batista
OF - Lance Berkman
OF - Jim Edmonds
OF - Daryle Ward
OF - Geoff Jenkins
DH - Roger Cedeno
SP - Pedro Martinez
SP - Freddy Garcia
SP - Ben Sheets
SP - Jason Marquis
SP - Corey Lidle
SP - Bud Smith
RP - Mariano Rivera
RP - Jason Isringhausen
RP - Scott Strickland
Bench:
C - Javy Lopez
1B - Erubiel Durazo
2B - Marcus Giles (MI but injured for first week)
OF - Jeremy Giambi
SP - Odalis Perez
SP - Matt Clement
SP - Kris Benson
RP - Roberto Hernandez
RP - Braden Looper
Prospects
C - Joe Mauer
1B - Casey Kotchman
2B - Adam Morrissey
3B - Drew Henson
SS - Antonio Perez
OF - Kelly Johnson
OF - Josh Hamilton
SP - Adam Johnson
SP - Pat Strange
SP - Bobby Bradley
Hey Farn I think you are overconfident of your team. My hitting may be weak, but I think my pitching is better than yours, even my 1-2 punch and especially my closers. I have a bit of speed in Cedeno and Furcal and the other aspects I consider myself average. Although my team seems weak for this year, it is basically built around young players so I should compete in the near future, if not this year.
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| 8 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 42109719
Thu, Mar 21, 2002, 20:30
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I think I have a nice team: Notorious 9
1B-Giambi, Pena
2B-Offerman
SS-Rollins, Uribe
3B-Rolen
C-Petrick
OF-Sosa, Bernie, Damon, Nixon, Higginson, Hunter, Gibbons, Glanville
P-Vazquez, Oswalt, Miller, Wagner, Colon, Pettite, Wolf, Escobar
I feel I have the best all around staff in the league.
THK
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| 9 | Edtaft
ID: 4525319
Thu, Mar 21, 2002, 21:43
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C-Mike Piazza (3)
C-Jason Varitek (1)
1B-Paul Konerko (3)
1B-Mark Grace (1)
2B-Roberto Alomar (3)
2B-Delino Deshields (1)
3B-Sean Burroughs (3)
3B-Vinny Castilla (1)
SS-Cristian Guzman (2)
SS-David Eckstein (1)
OF-Gary Sheffield (3)
OF-Cliff Floyd (3)
OF-Carlos Lee (2)
OF-Jose Cruz (2)
OF-Darin Earstad (1)
OF-Alex Ochoa (1)
SP-Barry Zito (4)
SP-Mark Buehrle (3)
SP-Joe Mays (3)
SP-Andy Ashby (1)
SP-Todd Ritchie (2)
SP-Derek Lowe (2)
SP-Brian Lawrence (1)
SP-Rick Helling (1)
SP-Joey Hamilton (1)
RP-Keith Foulke (3)
RP-John Smoltz (3)
RP-Kyle Farnsworth (1)
RP-Jeff Fassero (1)
RP-Flash Gordon (1)
Cap Spent = 58 years
Remaining Cap = 7 years
Prospects:
C-Jason Werth
1B-Luis Garcia
2B-Bobby Hill
3B-Willy Aybar
SS-Angel Berroa
OF-Jack Cust
OF-Chris Snelling
OF-Austin Kearns
SP-Kurt Ainsworth
SP-Brett Myers
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| 10 | Demon_Rat
ID: 202521113
Thu, Mar 21, 2002, 22:54
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SP-, Mike Mussina<4>
, Mark Mulder<4>
, A.J. Burnett<2>
, Joel Pineiro<2>
, Jamie Moyer<2>
, Danny Baez<1>
Dave Mlicki,<1>
Frank Castillo.<1>
CP-, Matt Hoffman<4>
, Bob Wickman<2>
, Esteban Yan, <1>
C-, Jorge Posada<3>
Mitch Meluskey<1>
1b-, Mike Sweeney<3>
Doug Mienkiewicz<1>
J.T Snow, <1>
2b-,Luis Castillo<2>
Micheal Young, <1>
3b-, Corey Koskie<2>
Hank Blalock<3>
Jose Valentin<1>
ss-, Alex Gonzalez<2>
Barry Larkin<1>
OF-, Ichiro Susuki<4>
, Juan Gonzalez<4>
, Jeremy Burnitz<2>
, Richard Hidalgo<1>
Frank Cattalanoto<2>
Chris Singleton<1>
Milton Bradley <1>
Total Years = 60 = $60 Salary = 5 years remaining.
Prospects- Mark Teixeira, Chin-Feng Chen, Mario Ramos, Justin Morneau, Ryan Ludwick,
Tony Pluta, Kevin Mench, Mike Jones, Garrett Atkins, Jesus Cota.
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| 11 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 42109719
Thu, Mar 21, 2002, 22:56
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Can you drop players before the season begins???
THK
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| 12 | Demon_Rat
ID: 202521113
Thu, Mar 21, 2002, 23:00
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what can u say about it?
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| 13 | Tavotaft
ID: 4525319
Thu, Mar 21, 2002, 23:18
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THK I believe you can, why not? They would just count against your free agents move, which you have 15.
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| 14 | Tavo
ID: 4525319
Thu, Mar 21, 2002, 23:22
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Demon you have a solid team. Your major weaknesses are at 2B and SS so you are in the same position as I am. Lets just hope our youngsers have breakout years and maybe we'll win the Championship!
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| 15 | Farn
ID: 2310151714
Fri, Mar 22, 2002, 10:30
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Tavo- i am overconfident? Your 1-2 punch might lose a lot of its punch if your little 135lb Martinez continues to get lit up like a Christmas tree like he has this spring. Let's not forget he hasn't finished a season injury free in quite some time. Counting on him to pitch the full season is awful risky which is why I consider my RJ-Rocket combo the best 1-2 punch in the league. Even if Pedro is healthy, he is equal to RJ. And right now I would take Rocket over Garcia knowing for sure the Yanks will win around 100 games, and he will have no less than 16 wins at worst. The same can't be said for Garcia.
And I still think the rest of my rotation is stronger than yours. I don't have Rivera, but I am quite happy with Percival and Graves.
And like you said, my hitting is better.
So I really don't see you competing with me.
(btw, trash talking is what makes the league fun so that's why I am trying to inject some life into this league. Keep it coming from all directions.)
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| 16 | Farn
ID: 2310151714
Fri, Mar 22, 2002, 10:37
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Tdunc- not sure if this is the case, but I wanted to check just incase. The league has weekly changes, and with that in mind our roster I believe are due by midnight sunday for the next week. Not sure how the first week works, but if its considered the same way we need our active roster set this sunday night to get credit for next sunday's 1 game. So if so can you enter the rosters by then so we can get ours set for that one game that would be great. Disregard if this week is different.
Rest of the League- roster and contracts due today to tdunc. Don't forget.
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| 17 | tduncan
ID: 47616279
Fri, Mar 22, 2002, 11:18
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I'm pretty sure it's diffrent this week, and that we will be able to change our rosters untill saturday at midnight.
But just in case, I will try and input the roster before sunday. Anyway, I 1st need all the owners to send me their roster/contracts. I'm still waiting for Dan, eZe and THK.
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| 18 | tduncan
ID: 47616279
Fri, Mar 22, 2002, 13:04
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I have created a small website that we will use in order to keep track of all the keeper stuff of the league.
Please go there and check it out.
link
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| 19 | Farn
ID: 2310151714
Fri, Mar 22, 2002, 13:14
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tdunc- just to help with my roster page you can fill in a few things if you care to.
you can make Pokey Reese a SS if you wish so everyone knows i have 2 instead of offering me trades for a backup.
prospects area:
Chris Smith= Pitcher/OF; Orioles
Dustan Mohr= OF; Twins
Brendan Harris= 2B; Cubs
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| 20 | tduncan
ID: 47616279
Fri, Mar 22, 2002, 13:17
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pitcher/OF ?
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| 21 | Farn
ID: 2310151714
Fri, Mar 22, 2002, 13:23
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hehehe. yeah, he was drafted to be a pitcher, but he was an All American OF and great hitter at FSU so I listed him at both. Maybe we got a Babe Ruth on our hands. :)
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| 22 | wiggs
ID: 1911252811
Fri, Mar 22, 2002, 13:24
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farn stop cheating, that guy is a bat boy!! :)
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| 23 | Farn
ID: 2310151714
Fri, Mar 22, 2002, 13:25
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eheheh. i wish he was. this is the kid who held my team to 3 runs in the state finals with nothing but a 97mph fastball. bastard.
on a related note, he struck out my round 40 Prospect Brendan Harris for the 2nd out of the last inning in that state final game.
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| 24 | Farn
ID: 2310151714
Fri, Mar 22, 2002, 13:35
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tdunc- have you figured out what the penalty is for a late roster? gonna go out on a limb here and say someone doesn't turn one in tonight.
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| 25 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 42109719
Fri, Mar 22, 2002, 16:48
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Rostered Players: Notorious 9
1B: Giambi (5), Pena (1)
2B: Offerman (1)
SS: Rollins (5), Uribe (3)
3B: Rolen (5)
C: Petrick (2)
OF: Sosa (5), Bernie (3), Damon (3), Nixon (2), Higginson (2), Hunter (1)
P: Vazquez (5), Oswalt (5), W. Miller (4), Wagner (4), Colon (2), Pettitte (3), Wolf (3), Escobar (2)
Total Contract Yrs: 64
THK
PS-I am gone until Sunday.
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| 26 | tduncan
ID: 47616279
Fri, Mar 22, 2002, 17:13
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THK There are 21 players here... There should be 25.
I guess we will fix with it sunday.
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| 27 | tduncan
ID: 47616279
Sat, Mar 23, 2002, 02:14
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I'm sorry. There should be 30.
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| 28 | tduncan
ID: 47616279
Sat, Mar 23, 2002, 03:27
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Still waiting for Dan and eZe to send me their contracts/prospects list.
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| 29 | tduncan
ID: 47616279
Sat, Mar 23, 2002, 06:15
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As the commish, I was trying to keep myself out of the trash talking, but I just couldn't do it anyomre. Like Farn said, I do think it's what makes the league fun.
So here is my roster:
C - Tobby Hall (3)
C - A.J. Pierzynski (1)
1B - Tony Clark (1)
1B - Wes Helms (1)
2B - Alfonso Soriano (5)
2B - Luis Rivas (2)
2B - Jerry Hairston Jr. (1)
SS - Edgar Rentaria (1)
3B - Aadrian Beltre (2)
3B - Todd Zeile (1)
OF - Vladdmir Guerrero (5)
OF - Manny Ramirez (3)
OF - Magglio Ordonez (3)
OF - J.D. Drew (3)
OF - Tim Salmon (1)
OF - Rondell White (1)
SP - Matt Morris (3)
SP - John Lieber (2)
SP - C.C. Sabathia (2)
SP - Brad Penny (3)
SP - Jeff Weaver (3)
SP - Hideo Nomo (1)
SP - Steve Sparks (1)
SP - Ruben Quevedo (1)
RP - Armando Benitez (2)
RP - Matt Anderson (2)
RP - Billy Koch (2)
RP - Chad Fox (1)
RP - Tim Redding (1)
Fire at will.
Farn:
You have a nice team, but I totaly don't agree with the way you contracted it. Danny Graves for $3? wow. Kind of pricy for his 25 saves, and thats only incase Shaw doesn't come back. Todd Walker for $2? do you really think you won't be able to find someone at his level the next draft? Johnson, Lieberthal and Vaughn are huge injury risks. You could easly end up with nothing for those $9, specially in later years. RJ and Clemens probably don't have as many good years left as you signed them for.
Also, leaving only $2 for moves during the season is very very risky, specially cosidering you don't have a backup 3B, and your started is the often injured Jeff Cirillo. You could be forced for a quick trade from a major position of weakness.
Tavo:
I don't like your starting pitchers at all. Pedro is always risk, and other then garcia all your other starters still need to prove they can be good big league pitchers. Very unproven staff.
Let me tell you something else: Mariano Rivera is the most overrated fantasy player EVER. His 50 saves doesn't worth an early 3rd round pick, specially consdiering you can get someone who will give you around 45 saves 5 round later. You should have took Hudson there.
Your hitting is OK, but your OF is very weak. The Furcal-Tejada thing had been discussed before, so I won't mention it :)
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| 30 | Tavo
ID: 4525319
Sat, Mar 23, 2002, 14:59
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Tduncan maybe I picked Mariano too early, it was a rookie mistake as I am a rookie to drafting. Anyways, many closers will get the same amount of saves as him but he has the best ERA and WHIP and those categories do count. As far as my OFs, Berkman is very underrated as he might end up being like a top 5 OF. The others I agree that are middle of the pack guys.
Your team
Your catching is very weak, that Toby Hall is also overrated. I've never heard of him before and suddenly this year he seems to be such a hot commodity. At first, Tony Clark will give you some OK numbers but I'd bet a million dollars that his back won't hold up for long. And Helms, he is just a platoon player. Soriano at second is good, but your SS and 3B are just average. As far as your OF no comments are needed. Your pitching is good, not great. Morris is an excellent pitcher and so is Lieber although he always ends up with an ERA around 4. Sabathia, Penny and Weaver are your difference makers. If they falter your team will go no where. Benitez and Anderson are OK, but Fox is injured for a while. Anyways, good team.
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| 31 | Farn
ID: 2310151714
Sat, Mar 23, 2002, 23:37
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tdunc- thanks for the advice on my contracts. fortunately for me i was sober when i handed them out so i decided to keep johnson and clemens long term. sorry you guys won't be able to get them after 1 year.
also, did you ever receive rosters from those 3 managers?
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| 32 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 42109719
Sun, Mar 24, 2002, 18:01
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I'm dropping those other players...so I thought. I don't even know who I have and don't want them...that is why I asked if I could drop players.
THK
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| 33 | tduncan
ID: 47616279
Mon, Mar 25, 2002, 01:21
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I'm affreid you can't do that thk... you must have a 30 man roster, and you must sign every player you drafted...
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| 34 | tduncan
ID: 47616279
Mon, Mar 25, 2002, 07:45
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THK here are your draft picks, round-by-round:
1. Sammy Sosa
2. Jason Giambi
3. Javier Vazquez
4. Roy Oswault
5. Scott Rolen
6. Jimmy Rollins
7. Wade Miller
8. Billy Wagner
9. Bernie Williams
10. Juan Uribe
11. Jonny Damon
12. Bartolo Colon
13. Andy Pettitte
14. Randy Wolf
15. Trot Nixon
16. Brandon Duckworth
17. Kelvim Escobar
18. Carlos Pena (P)
19. Jose Offerman
20. Ben Petrick
21. Jake Peavy (P)
22. Jerome Williams (P)
23. Jose Reyes (P)
24. Bobby Higginson
25. Adrian Gonzalez (P)
26. Josh Phelps (P)
27. Esteban German (P)
28. Boof Bonser (P)
29. Gabe Gross (P)
30. Dennis Tankersley (P)
31. Jon Rauch (P)
32. Torii Hunter
33. Rafael Soriano (P)
34. Jay Gibbons
35. Doug Glanville
36. Brian Daubach
37. Dustin Hermanson
38. Jeff Conine
39. Frank Menechino
40. Jeff Suppen
As you can see, there are 12 prospects here. But, Carlos Pena and Jon Rauch are gonna start (or pitch) for their respected major league teams, so they will be on your active roster.
Now you just need to contract all your 30 active players, and leave yourself some money under the cap for moves during the season.
I have allready inputed all the teams to the yahoo league except this one.
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| 35 | Farn
ID: 2310151714
Mon, Mar 25, 2002, 15:38
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after some thought i have a topic i would like to see discussed and/or reviewed.
situation A: Randy Johnson decides to retire on April 3rd. He says and I quote "I have decided that I don't want to play anymore. I just want to sit at home and watch the grass grow (shout out to MJ's retirement in '93)." By doing so RJ voids his contract because he is choosing to give up baseball. Arizona no longer pays him. (see Mark McGwire giving up the last year of his deal.)
situation B: on April 1st Randy Johnson breaks his arm severely and is told by his doctor "you will never play baseball again no matter what." Johnson says he will be back in a year or two after lots of rehab. Arizona agrees with the doctor and forces Johnson into retirement. By doing so they pay the rest of his contract because they told him his career is over, but he never said so. In doing so Arizona pays him the rest of his contract because Johnson won't retire. (see Larry Johnson of the Knicks.)
Using these two examples of real life sports, if a player in our league decides to no longer play his contract is void by baseball and he no longer is paid by his team. If the team boots him he gets paid. That should be the case in our league, which means if a player chooses to retire his contract is void and off our cap. If this is like real life we should be doing it this way.
I would love input from other managers besides tdunc, who will probably disagree with me. So everyone chime in.
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| 36 | Tavo
ID: 4525319
Mon, Mar 25, 2002, 20:57
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What I wanted was to say that the formula for an extention is exaggerated. IMO it will be impossible to extend someone contracts. I agree on the idea that we have to pay something extra when extending a contract but the current formula is too much. In your example in the rules page, paying 11 years to single player is almost 1/6 of our total cap, all that on ONE PLAYER.
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| 37 | Tavo
ID: 4525319
Mon, Mar 25, 2002, 21:20
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Hey Duncan, I can't see my team in yahoo. Do I have to wait for all the teams to be inputted to be able to see my team?
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| 38 | tduncan
ID: 47616279
Mon, Mar 25, 2002, 22:16
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Farn: Let me think this over. I will give you my opinion soon.
Tavo (36): The extention formula is not just something I made up beacuase it looks good. It's a mathetical colculation that gives you EXACTLY what you should pay incase of extention.
Tavo (37): Yes.
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| 39 | rockafellerskank
Sustainer
ID: 359283123
Mon, Mar 25, 2002, 22:31
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Wow, tduncan, You say: Let me tell you something else: Mariano Rivera is the most overrated fantasy player EVER. His 50 saves doesn't worth an early 3rd round pick, specially consdiering you can get someone who will give you around 45 saves 5 round later. You should have took Hudson there.
about 3,000 "live" drafters woud disagree with you (including me). MR may not get 50 saves, but show me any draft where you can get 45 saves in the 8th rund (which is where you told him he could have gotten his closer). RotoWire has MR rated as the 8th best overall pitcher INCLUDING all starters.
Furthermore, aren't you being a little overdramatic when you say MR is the most over-rated player EVER? EVER? EVER? EVER?
I participated in 2 "live" drafts with some of the most well informed owners that I can find. MR never even made it to round 3 in either of them. Or look at the other Gurupie "live" slow drafts, I'll be you can't find one that MR didn't go by round 3. Farn, Nice job scooping MR where you did -- no rookie mistake. He gives you Saves + WHIP + K's/inning.
tduncan, feel free to retort or provide some "proof" MR is sooooo over-rated. show me any reputable website that lists MR as a 35-50th overall pick. Your opinion doesn't qualify as reputable, BTW.
rs ®
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| 40 | Tavo
ID: 4525319
Mon, Mar 25, 2002, 22:44
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Hey rfs that was me who drafted Mariano. Your post makes me feel better about drafting Mo =o)
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| 41 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 42109719
Mon, Mar 25, 2002, 23:59
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tduncan-
Why can't I drop the players I didn't have in my contracting?
Gone for night.
THK
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| 42 | Farn
ID: 2310151714
Tue, Mar 26, 2002, 00:02
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RFS- i wish i could have gotten rivera. I did draft him in the second round of a different league though in support of your statements.
THK- well, you have to have players on your roster to release them. and if they are on your roster then you pay them contracts, then use FA moves to release them. That's how it works in baseball.
other managers- thoughts on my points in post #35?
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| 43 | Tavo
ID: 4525319
Tue, Mar 26, 2002, 00:16
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Thk after you drafted your players you have to pay them. After you set up your contracts and everythin, then you can make some moves. But those moves will count against your 15 moves allowed and you still will have to pay the players you dropped.
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| 44 | tduncan
ID: 47616279
Tue, Mar 26, 2002, 04:30
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rfs - In those rotowire rankings (I don't have access), where are the next closer after Rivera ranked?
Lets compare some of the elite closers out there:
Rivera - 50 saves, 4 wins, 80.2 IP, 2.34 ERA, 0.90 WHIP, 83 K's
Robb Nen - 45, 4, 77.2, 3.01, 1.03, 93
Benitez - 43, 6, 76.1, 3.77, 1.29, 93
Hoffman - 43, 3, 60.1, 3.43, 1.12, 63
Foulke - 42, 4, 81, 2.33, 0.97, 75
Rivera is the best, no doubt, but not by much. Now let's see in what pick each of them was taken in this league's draft:
Rivera - 22nd overall.
Nenn - 73rd.
Benitez - 64th.
Hoffman - 46th.
Foulke - 51th.
24 picks between Rivera and the next closer. 51 picks between Rivera and the last of the pack.
I took Armando Benitez in round 7. He had 43 saves for a team that I'm not sure broke .500 last year, and that will change this year. He will also give me more K's. His other numbers are not so bad either (better then an average starter).
My round 3 pick was Matt Morris. A young 22 game winner, with solid numbers at all categories.
Tavo's 7th round pick was Rafael Furcal. A young (but not as much as we thought) SS, who was injured last season, and has no power at all. In other words, an average shortstop.
So the couples are:
Rivera - Furcal
Morris - Benitez
Who would you prefer?
I looked at the overall rankings of The Sporting News Fantasy Source:
Rivera ranks 21st overall, around where Tavo took him. But Hoffman is ranked 29th, right there at the of the same 3rd round. Faulke ranks in the middle of round 4.
I have yet to see one draft recap where the closers other then Rivera went as they ranked in all those rankigns. And I don't think Rivera is SO much better then the others that he desrves to go 3 round before them. Those 5 saves just don't worth it.
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| 47 | tduncan
ID: 47616279
Tue, Mar 26, 2002, 05:26
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And if you want "expert" opinion, go here.
I will just quote the most important part IMO:
In a salary/auction league I'm in, I just traded Rivera for Mesa. Am I insane? Well, a little disturbed perhaps, but since Rivera's price tag ($36) was so much higher than Mesa's ($3) and this is a keeper league, it illustrates the point perfectly. If Rivera gets 45 saves and Mesa gets hammered but still gets 30, was it worth it to save the $33 to use on something else? Absolutely (but don't hold me to that when Mesa reverts to his Mariners days and his ERA is double his weight. Now that's high). Same with a straight draft league; go ahead and make Rivera your fourth-round pick if you must, but Detroit's Matt Anderson will be there five rounds later. Jose Cruz Jr. probably won't.
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| 48 | tduncan
ID: 47616279
Tue, Mar 26, 2002, 05:38
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THK - You need to have 30 man on your active roster. After you contract them, feel free to release whoever you want. But you will have to continue to take their cap hit.
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| 49 | rockafellerskank
Sustainer
ID: 359283123
Tue, Mar 26, 2002, 08:17
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Rotowire:
Johnson, Randy
Martinez, Pedro
Maddux, Greg
Mussina, Mike
Schilling, Curt
Hudson, Tim
Oswalt, Roy
Rivera, Mariano
Nen, Robb
Hoffman, Trevor
Benitez, Armando
Foulke, Keith
Zito, Barry
Leiter, Al
Garcia, Freddy
Sasaki, Kazuhiro
Escobar, Kelvim
Graves, Danny
Brown, Kevin
Glavine, Tom
Colon, Bartolo
Person, Robert
Ho Park, Chan
Clemens, Roger
Sabathia, C.C.
Percival, Troy
Isringhausen, Jason
Shaw, Jeff
Wood, Kerry
Vazquez, Javier
Radke, Brad
Morris, Matt
Lieber, Jon
Anderson, Matt
Astacio, Pedro
Buehrle, Mark
Milton, Eric
Mulder, Mark
Miller, Wade
Ortiz, Russ
Gordon, Tom
Beckett, Josh
Ritchie, Todd
Koch, Billy
Urbina, Ugueth
Wickman, Bob
Wagner, Billy
Pettitte, Andy
Moyer, Jamie
Lowe, Derek
Alfonseca, Antonio
Hernandez, Roberto
Reed, Rick
Smoltz, John
Appier, Kevin
Mesa, Jose
Smith, Bud
Armas, Tony
Reynolds, Shane
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| 50 | rockafellerskank
Sustainer
ID: 359283123
Tue, Mar 26, 2002, 08:27
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BTW, My analysis doesn't take salary into account. If you are talking $36 VS $3 price tag, it's a whole different ballgame. It's like Shaq V Baby O'neil. I know who is better, but who is better per $$ is a different story. I was talking straight up draft pick. I re-read my post, I wasn't trying to rip you (it might have sounded that way) I was just defending MR as a legit 2nd/3rd rounder.
rfs ®
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| 51 | tduncan
ID: 47616279
Tue, Mar 26, 2002, 08:58
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Exactly my point rfs - in auction/salary leagues big salary is like an early round pick in draft leagues.
So who is more valuble, Rivera (8th best pitcher according to rotowire) in the 3rd or Rob Nenn (the guy just after Rivera) in the 8th?
BTW, those rotowire rankings are a joke. How can you a take seriusly rankings that put Danny Graves and Kelvim Escobar ahead of Matt Morris, Javier Vazquez and Kevin Brown?
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| 52 | Tavo
ID: 4525319
Tue, Mar 26, 2002, 19:40
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Hmm...
The only thing I know is that I'm gonna win this year with Mariano!
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| 53 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 42109719
Tue, Mar 26, 2002, 23:01
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Question-next yr when I cut these players I am going to cut, do I have to fill another 30 man roster?
Contracting for the Notorious 9:
Setting my team up for a screwing in 4 yrs...
Sosa (4)
Giambi (4)
Vazquez (4)
Oswalt (4)
Rolen (4)
Rollins (4)
Miller (4)
Wagner (3)
Williams (2)
Uribe (3)
Damon (2)
Colon (2)
Pettitte (2)
Wolf (3)
Nixon (1)
Duckworth (2)
Escobar (2)
Pena (1)
Offerman (1)
Petrick (2)
Higginson (1)
Rauch (1)
Hunter (1)
Gibbons (1)
Glanville (1)
Dauback (1)
Hermanson (1)
Conine (1)
Mene (1)
Suppan (1)
4 yrs may hurt, and all these cuts will suck! Bad job of drafting late...
THK
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| 54 | Tavo
ID: 4525319
Wed, Mar 27, 2002, 00:42
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If I counted right, you used 64 years. That will leave you absolutely no room for FA moves.
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| 55 | tduncan
ID: 47616279
Wed, Mar 27, 2002, 04:31
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I don't understand your question THK.
THK you have room for exactly 1 FA move during the season.
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| 56 | tduncan
ID: 47616279
Wed, Mar 27, 2002, 09:33
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The league is officialy started. You can all go to the yahoo league and start playing.
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| 57 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 42109719
Wed, Mar 27, 2002, 22:01
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tduncan-
I can't play...
AND
Can I rework my contracting?
THK
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| 58 | tduncan
ID: 47616279
Thu, Mar 28, 2002, 06:36
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what do you mean? just go to the yahoo league. click on "my team", and then "edit lineup".
OK, but do it fast (before the season starts).
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| 59 | Farn
ID: 2310151714
Thu, Mar 28, 2002, 11:36
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incase THK sees it here first...
Might want to burn a free agent move and find a new catcher. Petrick isn't starting.
On a side note, i have 2 pretty good ones.
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| 60 | Tavo
ID: 4525319
Thu, Mar 28, 2002, 20:31
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I have two good ones too... Pudge and Javy Lopez... Willing to trade any of those...
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| 61 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 42109719
Thu, Mar 28, 2002, 21:12
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tduncan-
I want to redo contracting!!! Not edit my lineup!
THK
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| 62 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 42109719
Thu, Mar 28, 2002, 21:23
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Changes in contracting...if possible:
Rolen (3)
Miller (3)
Petrick (1)
BTW-This leagues contracting sucks IMHO, PKL is set up much better.
THK
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| 63 | tduncan
ID: 47616279
Fri, Mar 29, 2002, 06:37
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It's suppose to be hard. You are not suppose to sign every player you drafted in the first 15 round for 7 years.
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| 64 | Farn
ID: 2310151714
Fri, Mar 29, 2002, 13:01
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post 62:"BTW-This leagues contracting sucks IMHO, PKL is set up much better."
The contracting in this league makes it harder. Any idiot can give out 7 year deals. Its those that give longer deals out as a risk (our league; my team for example) that are taking the real chances.
And trust me, any league with a manager who drops out 2 minutes before draft time from another league for no reason other than being an ******* can't be considered a better league. (no knock to the others in that league, they all appear to be cool.)
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| 65 | Ike44
ID: 10821818
Fri, Mar 29, 2002, 14:32
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Farn actually there were reasons why I dropped out...Keep your mouth shut if you dont know the facts...
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| 66 | APerfect10
ID: 3257215
Fri, Mar 29, 2002, 14:37
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Farn wrote
The contracting in this league makes it harder. Any idiot can give out 7 year deals. Its those that give longer deals out as a risk (our league; my team for example) that are taking the real chances.
a) You just contradicted yourself. Any idiot can give out 7 year deals...its those that give longer deals out as a risk?????
b) I have no clue what that last sentence said.
Listen, in no way have I knocked your league, therefore do not knock mine. I'm not sure you actually understand the rules of my league. Look a little harder and you will find that contracts in my league need to be strategically planned.
Also, maybe you should meet Ike before you talk about him. He felt as if the league screwed him over, which in my opinion they did. Ike was told from the start, that the draft was going to start off at pick #8. Throughout the whole ordeal, Ike was continually told by tduncan not to worry about it, no redrafting. Ike was trusting him until draft day and once he realized that you REALLY WERENT going to move on from #8 he decided to not participate.
Please tell me how Ike did anything wrong? Maybe you should get your facts straight before you make such accuse someone of something, then trash them.
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| 67 | Farn
ID: 2310151714
Fri, Mar 29, 2002, 17:18
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speaking of last sentences, yours is a gem.
so let me make sure I have it clear because if I do then I apologize. Ike claims he had no idea until 5 mins before draft time that this league would be drafting all over again? He missed all the posts saying we were starting over as well as those that listed the new draft order? And in the IM chat room (which you had exited AP10) he said "guys, I am leaving in 5 mins so you better find somebody else.". Did that also mean he thought there was a redraft, and when he found out (once again after missing all the previous posts and emails) it wasn't continuing at pick #8 he then found something that caused him to leave 5 mins later? If all the above is true and I was mistaken then I apologize. For some reason I don't see me needing to apologize though.
And no, I haven't met Ike. That doesn't excuse him for bailing on a league in 5 mins, whether he is my best friend or worst enemy.
As for contracting, I meant that it takes a smart and/or risky manager to give a 7 year deal in a league with a cap of 65. That paragraph was tough to understand. Sorry about that.
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| 68 | Ike44
ID: 10821818
Sat, Mar 30, 2002, 09:38
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Farn,
First of all I dont want or need an apology from you, nor would i except one. I have never talked bad about you because I never had a reason too. I feel I do not need to explain myself to you because I do not really care to take the time and talk to someone who is conceded. I can see if I did something to you personality and you have all this anger towards me...however I havent. I will not respond to any more posts from you about the topic. If it makes you feel better about yourself feel free to bash me all you want. Best of luck to you and your team.
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| 69 | Farn
ID: 2310151714
Sat, Mar 30, 2002, 09:54
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ike, trust me, i don't want an apology from you. And your post indicates you know I am right. Instead of waiting until 5 mins before the draft all you had to do was say you weren't happy with the changes (or that your dog had the flu for all I care) and dropped out days before that like AP10 did. I respect him for saying he wasn't happy with what was going on. But you waited til the last second and dropped out. That's what I don't like.
btw, I'm neither conceded nor conceited.
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| 70 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 42109719
Sun, Mar 31, 2002, 19:51
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Guys-
I said what I said for 2 reasons.
1)65 is way to low IMO, the PKL has a nice number but you still don't get 15 players with 7 yr deals considering that would be 105 contracting yrs.
2)In the PKL (as AP10) said it was more of a strategy because you can spread out the pay over the number of years instead of paying the same number each year.
THK
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