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0 Subject: 8 Men Out Keeper League 2017 Season 4

Posted by: Khahan
- [220342714] Fri, Jan 27, 2017, 15:34

Welcome back everybody to year 4 of the 8 Men Out Keeper league. Its still early so not much going yet. As a reminder, below is our league constitution:

Positions for 24 round draft:

C, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, SS, RF, CF, LF, MI, CI Util
SP, SP, RP, Px4
Bench x 6
DL x2

Runs, Rbi's, HR, SB, BA
W, Saves, K's, ERA, Whip

14 points for 1st place in a given category down to 1 point for 14th place. The winner will be the team with the most overall points after the last day of the regular season ends. If there are any make up games scheduled after the last day, those games will count if hosting site rules allow

Season limits:
1350 IP
162 games played per roster slot for hitters

Keeper Rules
Managers may keep 0-9 players. Players kept count against the draft round they were chosen in. Draft rounds follow traded players but can be changed to any earlier round in the first draft following the trade. Declaration of the new round is required at the time of keeper declaration.
In-season pick ups have no draft slot so they cannot be kept.
If you do not have multiple picks in a given round, you cannot keep multiple players tied to that round.

Example 1: I draft Ted Williams in round 1. Later in the season I make a trade which brings in Mickey Mantle who was also drafted in round 1. I may keep either Williams or Mantle, but not both.

Example 2: I draft Ryan Sandberg in round 5. Via trade I also acquire Andre Dawson who was drafted in round 5. And via a second trade, I acquire a 2nd 5th round pick. I may now keep both Sandberg and Dawson. (however note - the next season if I do not obtain a second R5 pick I will only be able to keep 1 of the players

Example 3: I draft Ryan Sandberg in round 5 of the 2014 draft. During the season I trade my 2015 round 5 pick. I may no longer keep Sandberg unless I acquire a round 5 pick before keepers are delcared.

Example 4: I draft Sandberg in round 5 in 2014. I trade away my round 5 pick in 2015 but acquire Dawson who was also a 2014 round 5 pick. I may not keep either. Dawson's draft round came with him, and come keeper time I dont have a round 5 pick. I may not keep Sandberg any longer as there is no draft slot to put him in. I may declare Dawson as a keeper in any round of 1-4 as long as I have a keeper slot available.

Keepers are due 18 days before the first game of the regular season.

Manager Expectations
Managers are expected to play a full season. Giving up part way, ignoring trade offers, your team or the league can result in your removal from the league.

Trades must be balanced against a maximum of 24 players on a given team and 24 rounds of draft for each manager. Outside of that, trades may be vetoed at the commissioner's discretion if he feels there has been collusion or cheating of some kind behind the trade. Otherwise, trades will be assumed to be acceptable and pass after 24 hours unless there is an objection. If an objection is raised there will be a league-wide vote. If more than 50% of managers not involved in the trade vote against the trade, it will be vetoed. Otherwise, it will pass 48 hours after initially being accepted by all managers involved.

If you receive a keeper eligible player via trade, you may move that players keeper round up during the keeper declarations after you received him. All other keeper rules still apply.
Example - in 2014 Khahan drafted Billy Hamilton in round 6. During the 2015 I trade him to another manager. In the 2016 keeper declaration Billy Hamilton may be declared as a keeper in any round 1-6 provided the manager has a draft slot free. For all future years that Hamilton remains a keeper that chosen round is now considered his keeper round.

In 2014 the draft will be a randomly ordered 24 round snake draft. Following years the draft will not snake. The order will be determined by how you placed the prior year. Teams finishing in 11-14 place will be in a lottery for the first 4 draft slots. All other teams will be reverse order of finish.

The draft will commence 2 days after keeper declaration and (for now) will be held at with the league hosting site at Yahoo.

The lottery draft will be held shortly after the end of the regular season (to better facilitate offseason trading).

Draft Guidelines
We will have a slow draft as noted at
Each draft slot will have a 4 hour window to make your pick. If you do not make a pick in the allotted time the next manager may go. You can make up your pick whenever you get back but forfeit the right to any players picked after you missed time. If the draft comes back to you before you make a missed pick, those future picks will be allotted 0 time until you are caught up. The clock will be shut off from 1am to 7am EST M-F and will not run on weekends - subject to change if we must meet a deadline.

For the 2017 draft - I just want to note that 2015 was a bit frustrating at times, though 2016 seemed to be cleared up. We use because it offers some fantastic features to help manage a draft. You can set a general queue that can be dipped into. Or you can set a queue for each individual round with completely different players in it. You can set multiple people up to be able to make your pick for you. And you set your queue so those people can see the whole queue or only the top pick available. Please make use of the tools our draft site has to offer.

And remember, players must be in the Yahoo database to be eligible for the draft.

I bolded a part above for a reason. A full, active league is extremely important to a fun time for all. A few managers seemed to give up on their teams and did not even check in on their team the final month. I will be keeping an eye on these teams and if at any point I feel a lack of interest is becoming the norm I will find a replacement manager. Please, a league like this is comprised of 13 other people who are all here to compete. If you truly do not feel you can stay focused for a full season bow out. If you have shit come up and fantasy baseball simply isn't your focus and you opt out on your own, I'll gladly give you first crack down the road to return when your situation changes. But if it gets to the point that I remove you - you're done. So please, give consideration not just to your schedule but to everybody else's schedule as well.
      ID: 220342714
      Fri, Jan 27, 2017, 15:45
First order of business is a rules change proposal which would not go into effect until the 2018 season.

I would love to have a league that has Saves+Holds as a category. Here's my reasoning:

Saves is a very narrow category. Its easy to manage in 10 and even 12 team leagues. But when you start getting into leagues the size of ribc they can be problematic. Closer changes due to injury usually means the fastest on the draw benefits. Is there any interest in opening the Saves category to Save + Holds. This would presumably open up the very limited market and make a whole category much less volatile and susceptible to injuries, committees, or poor performance. Saves stands out because it truly is different from the other 10 categories. No other category has such a narrow focus with a rules-driven small pool.

This is something I've been bringing up since the beginning of last here. I'm sure we all have our own opinions and reasons and I hope we all express them here, but I also want to point everybody to this thread, which has a very nice conversation with both pros and cons listed. Like any other rules change this will be put to a league vote and since this directly affect player value it would not take affect until 2018 (I'd even be willing to listen to arguments we should hold off until 2019, but 2018 is my target unless there are strong objections).
      ID: 77532019
      Fri, Jan 27, 2017, 16:20
dumb question, where can we find who we drafted where again?
      ID: 220342714
      Fri, Jan 27, 2017, 16:24
On the league page in Yahoo, mouse over "Draft" in the top menu bar and choose "Last Season."

As an easy reference here's a link right to the page.

I haven't checked it for accuracy against our league rules, but at a glance any player listed on your roster on this page with a draft round listed next to him *should* be keeper eligible.
This should be a list of players on your team at season's end and the ones with a draft pick next to should be the drafted players still there.

Also you can go to the league page and choose 2016 from the season drop down box, then click draft results to see the actual results from 2016 or when we log back into draftime the results will be there in your history too.
      ID: 27592412
      Fri, Jan 27, 2017, 16:25
Am returning

In favor of S+H or just do away with the category
      ID: 160342716
      Fri, Jan 27, 2017, 17:34
In and in favor of moving to saves plus holds.
      ID: 480462716
      Fri, Jan 27, 2017, 17:46
I am planning on playing. The Power of Lemke team name, subject to change.

I am in favor of the proposed change. I also in favor of having the change affect in 2017.
7 Khahan
      ID: 367431722
      Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 00:37
Art - as much as I want this change, I think its unfair to institute it this year with a huge majority saying ok. Even then, considering this is a keeper league and some have made decisions on who to keep, I'm just not comfortable with a rule change like this going into effect immediately. It doesn't affect any of my keeper choices from the past 2 years at all. But before we address that issue any further, lets find out if its something we, as a league, want to begin with.
      ID: 39230821
      Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 10:09
I'm coming back. In favor of S+H
9 fear the monkey
      ID: 15734920
      Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 10:39
i'm in and also in favor of S + H
      ID: 42142238
      Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 22:58

Against saves and holds. I feel like it makes closers much less valuable
      ID: 531322718
      Sun, Jan 29, 2017, 12:59
Returning for another year

Voting no to saves plus holds; I think it would take too much strategy out of the game
      ID: 44212013
      Sun, Jan 29, 2017, 22:34
In for the long haul.
Holds + Saves is something I can go for; the timeline on it really doesn't matter.
      ID: 8016308
      Mon, Jan 30, 2017, 10:46
So far Saves+Holds change is up 7-2. We're right at half, so not a majority yet.

Still waiting to hear from Tree on the vote.
Still waiting to hear about returning and the vote from:
Bryant's Blue Eyes
Knights Radiant

      ID: 35338278
      Mon, Jan 30, 2017, 11:55
I'm in and I vote to keep Saves only.
      ID: 77532019
      Mon, Jan 30, 2017, 18:05
i'm going to wait until my vote matters :D
      ID: 535571316
      Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 08:58

Against S & H and hope it doesn't come into effect this year.
18 Bryant's Blue Eyes
      ID: 22235148
      Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 09:28
I'm back for this year.

I'm voting in favor of S+H.
      ID: 540283114
      Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 15:28
Toral - if it passes, there is no way I'll have it be effective for 2017. We're looking at 2018 for this change.

Wiggs - Against saves and holds. I feel like it makes closers much less valuable

Yes, it will make bad closers less valuable. But it will make the best closers more valuable and it will make the best middle relievers more valuable. And instead of having a pool of about 45 viable players to choose from thru the course of the year, we'll have a pool of about 85-90 viable choices. Compare this to the number of players who contribute HR, SB, Runs, RBi's etc at a viable pace and you'll find that s+h is still the smallest pool. But its no longer restrictively small.
      ID: 42142238
      Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 15:57
Khahan. Totally disagree with this.

Middle relievers can get holds therefore a 40 hold middle reliever that no one ever heard of is more valuable then all but 6 closers in baseball.
      ID: 46138110
      Wed, Feb 01, 2017, 11:39
40 hold middle reliever that no one ever heard of is more valuable then

Don't you think this rewards the manager with the more robust knowledge base?

      ID: 46138110
      Wed, Feb 01, 2017, 13:35
Research credit to Meatwads in the G20 thread, but here are some hard figures on Hold and save totals from last year. Just raw numbers, make of them what you will:


40+ Saves : 6
40+ Holds : 1

35+ Saves : 12
35+ Holds : 1

30+ Saves : 16
30+ Holds : 1

25+ Saves : 20
25+ Holds : 18

20+ Saves : 22
20+ Holds : 33

15+ Saves : 32
15+ Holds : 59

10+ Saves : 42
10+ Holds : 101

5+ Saves : 53
5+ Holds : 160

1+ Saves : 148
1+ Holds : 308
      ID: 42142238
      Thu, Feb 02, 2017, 12:49
I think we can agree to disagree on this but my thoughts are you are making Addison reed as valuable as kenley Jensen. Jensen was a 3rd round pick and I just don't think a middle reliever is anywhere near that valuable.
      ID: 56118210
      Thu, Feb 02, 2017, 13:09
Fair enough Wiggs. That's why we're opening it to discussion and vote.
      ID: 35338278
      Thu, Feb 02, 2017, 13:42
Don't need a great deal of knowledge to stay competitive in holds (saves+holds) IMO. Don't waste a keep or pick on a closer and just continuously stream MR that have favorable matchups. Undoubtedly those that are always on a computer or phone and have loads of free time are advantaged in the saves only category, but I'm not sure it's a huge difference between the advantages their activity inherently leads to anyway? FB is never a set it and forget it venture so I'm always in the camp that promotes activity (like no acquisitions cap) but admittedly my life situation allows that so I would understand a change to cater to realism and fairness to those in different situations.
      ID: 56118210
      Thu, Feb 02, 2017, 14:28
WG - if people are worried about streaming abuses we can also always look at the IP limit and make sure its set properly. I don't have the time right this moment but later tonight I can look at innings pitched last year compared to limits and see if a change should be proposed along with it to limit streaming strategies.

I don't want rules that negate strategies and somebody who can stream and knows the players well enough should get that opportunity. But it also shouldn't be set so high that everybody must do it to keep up. I think there is a sweet spot.
      ID: 480462716
      Fri, Feb 03, 2017, 16:30
agree that the proposed change does devalue closers and gives value to MR. I am fine with implementing in future years, but we need to look at how many keepers are going to closers. If the proposed change even goes through

For me the issue is there are just not enough closers available in a 14 team league. There are 30 MLB teams. Only half of those teams might earn a save and typically only one player on that team gets the save. In addition teams change their closers sometimes 3-4 times during the season. The first one to the wire gets a huge advantage for a very specialized category.
I also agree that saves + holds lessens the knowledge you need to be competitive in the category, but it does still come to luck.
      ID: 51116166
      Fri, Feb 03, 2017, 20:56
I don't think S+H lessens the k owledge needed. Rather it shifts the focus of that knowledge.
      ID: 26115139
      Mon, Feb 13, 2017, 15:40
I've sent a second and final email to Knight's Radiant. I'm not going to chase anybody down for this league. You are either interested enough to respond or your not. If I haven't heard back by 2/20, his spot is up for grabs and I've already heard from people interested. Come 2/20 and the confirmation of KR or the addition of a new player I'm going to want to get set up asap and everybody registered there. Then I'll look at the calendar to post keeper dates and draft start dates. Remember we were pretty quiet last year until the week before keepers when trading/activity just exploded. Hoping to see the same fervent activity this year as well. :)
      ID: 471411711
      Fri, Feb 17, 2017, 12:41
This was voted on last year and approved almost unanimously. It IS in effect for keeper declarations for the upcoming keeper deadline?

In order to be keeper eligible a player must have 50AB or 20 IP in their career.

A few points of clarification from last season:

1. This does not affect the draft. It is a requirement to declare somebody a keeper. You can draft anybody you want, whether they are 2 years from the majors or 2 years from retirement.

2. Those are career totals. Otherwise players who missed a year due to injury wouldn't be draft eligible.
      ID: 367431722
      Sun, Feb 19, 2017, 21:03
We've got 3 hours for the last player to check in. If not, tomorrow I start looking for a replacement manager
      ID: 367431722
      Mon, Feb 20, 2017, 00:16
Ok, Knight's Radiant never checked in. I've spoken with a longtime gurupie, Taxman. Most all of you have been in at least one league with him. I'd like to welcome Taxman to the 8 Men Out keeper league, now in its 4th season. You are inheriting a team with some nice resources Donny.

Also, please read thru our league constitution and we have a motion to change from Saves to saves + holds as a category. We just need your vote and Trees vote and we can put this matter to rest.
      ID: 40126208
      Mon, Feb 20, 2017, 09:26
Welcome to the League, Taxman!
34 taxman
      ID: 371026520
      Mon, Feb 20, 2017, 09:30
Thanks for the invite. Good to see the many long-time acquaintances.

I vote in favor of S+H

I was in such a league last year and found it a compelling study to keep up with the broader category and was salve to the in-season loss of closer(s).
      ID: 3514209
      Mon, Feb 20, 2017, 10:04
Welcome in Tax, good to see you back in a league.

We have our managers set. I'll get things set up at draftime later today. Everybody will need to login there again. Aside from that we can start trading and finalizing keepers etc.

Here are a few important dates:

1. Sunday April 2nd is the first MLB regular season game

2. This means keepers are due by 12:01 AM March 15. Another way to think of it is 11:59pm on March 14 is the last time you can post keepers.
Any keepers posted AFTER 11:59pm March 14 will be invalid. If no keepers are posted, it is assumed no players are being kept. No exceptions!

3. The draft will start 2 days after keepers are declared. This means Friday March 17 at 7am EST.

Our draft order was determined at the end of last season. The lowest 4 were put into a lottery for the first 4 picks. Everybody else is drafting in reverse order of finish. I swear I thought I did this at the end of 2016 but I cannot find the results of the lottery or the order. Does anybody remember seeing this or did I miss it last year?

      ID: 27592412
      Mon, Feb 20, 2017, 14:04
Can find the order @ draft time
      ID: 3514209
      Mon, Feb 20, 2017, 15:23
Bean that would be 2016's draft order. What I'm looking for 2017's order - did I do the lotto picks yet or not?
Looking at the standings from 2016, I was 10th which is 1 spot out of the lotto. The last lotto I remember running - I was in it. So I'm guessing I didn't do the lotto.

So here goes. The lotto teams are the 11th-14th place teams - Fear the Monkey, power of lemke, C1's stocking feat and super twins.

I'll go generate 2 sets of numbers - 1 to get a random order and the other to re-order them from there.

      ID: 3514209
      Mon, Feb 20, 2017, 15:26
1 list
2, 4, 3, 1

2nd list
4, 1, 2, 3
      ID: 3514209
      Mon, Feb 20, 2017, 15:30
So we have
Fear the Monkey - 2
Power of Lemke - 4
C1's stocking feat - 3
Super Twins - 1

Super Twins
Fear the Monkey
Power of Lemke

Apply the second set of numbers:
Super Twins 4
Fear the Monkey 1
C1 2
Power of Lemke 3

our top 4 draft order is
Fear the Monkey
C1 Stocking Feat
Power of Lemke
Super Twins
followed by
Bryant's Blue Eyes
Taxman (knights radiant)
Foot's Soldiers
Niagara Meridians (toral)
Vampire Weekend

Draftime info to come.
40 Khahan
      ID: 191172113
      Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 14:17
I'm in full out rebuild mode. After jumping out of the gate winning year 1 and being competitive until the end year 2, my players are not holding up well. I have some great pieces to help push contenders over the top for this year:

Carlos Gonzalez (1)
Edwin Encarnacion (2)
Justin Upton (3)
Felix Hernandez (4)
Ian Kinsler (6)
Daniel Murphy (10)
Evan Gattis (18)

      ID: 211402311
      Thu, Feb 23, 2017, 12:40
Ok, the link in post 3 to last year's draft appears to show qualified keepers. Any player without a round next to them in that link is definitely ineligible under our rules.

The players with a round next to them appears to be a good guideline to go by for naming keepers.
Keep in mind - our rules are still our rules. If there are any mistakes, errors or discrepancies that result in an ineligible player being named I will reference our keeper rules for a final decision. That draft chart also doesn't show IP or games played. So for instance, while JP Crawford on Thumpers team meets the requirement of never having been on the WW or a FA, he does not have any mlb at-bats and is not eligible to be named a keeper.

Remember, the final responsibility is always on you, the manager.
      ID: 27592412
      Thu, Feb 23, 2017, 15:30
The one common exception to the "player without a round next to him" rule is guys who were drafted, then dropped, then picked up by another team.

You can get an clue that this might be the case when the pick number is different than all the others of that team.

First example of this is Evan Gattis on Khahan's team. Did Khahan draft him or trade for him, or was he just a pick up mid-season?
      ID: 211402311
      Thu, Feb 23, 2017, 15:35
Good catch bean. I was thinking I had drafted Gattis last year, but I used a keeper slot on D'Arnaud. So here is a second link that can easily be used to cross reference the original draft:

draftime results 2016
      ID: 480462716
      Thu, Feb 23, 2017, 15:35
You can see the draft results in draft time and then compare it to roster at the end of the season.
      ID: 46223312
      Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 13:23
Is there a final resolution on moving to saves and holds?
      ID: 55255313
      Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 14:55
In post 14 Saves + holds was up 7-2. Since then the vote has been 2-2 for a total of 9-4 in favor of saves+holds. It passes but its not until 2018. This year will be just saves.
      ID: 367431722
      Sun, Mar 05, 2017, 10:27
The 3 keeper lists submitted so far all check out.

Bean, gurudan and artofmonk's listed keepers are all good to go.
      ID: 53211711
      Tue, Mar 07, 2017, 12:38
Masahiro Tanaka SP (Ninth Rd)
Dexter Fowler CF (Fourteenth Rd)

Both available for draft picks. Tanaka requires one round better (eighth or better). Fowler requires single-digit round.
      ID: 27592412
      Tue, Mar 07, 2017, 20:17

Bean sends 13th round pick
Vampireweekend sends Cody Allen (21) and his 24th pick

This should result in Bean having two 24th picks in the draft and Vampireweekend having two 13th picks in the draft

I'l resubmit my keepers

Go Tribe!
      ID: 367431722
      Tue, Mar 07, 2017, 21:57
Trade in 49 is processed. Bean - I had to drop a player from your team so I found a player you added as a FA and dropped him.

Mental note - just realized VW hasn't posted confirmation. I will wait for that in the future. Just so excited to see a trade!! hah
      ID: 46223312
      Tue, Mar 07, 2017, 22:30
Confirmed subject to a clarification - this means I still have my 21st round pick correct? I am slightly inebriated and am confusing myself...
      ID: 367431722
      Tue, Mar 07, 2017, 22:31
VW - yes, you traded cody allen and your 24th round pick. Bean was just notating the round allen was drafted in for bookkeeping, which is appreciated.
      ID: 3022988
      Wed, Mar 08, 2017, 09:29
Vamp keeps his round 21 pick.

So far the following managers have posted keepers and they check out as all eligible:
vampire weekend

55 WG
      ID: 53213822
      Wed, Mar 08, 2017, 23:30
Am interested in adding a keeper or two and potentially trading one of mine in a deal. Please let me know if interested in discussing a potential trade.
      ID: 0181517
      Fri, Mar 10, 2017, 08:54
I'm not sure if these have all been done, but I'm reposting my trades from last year's thread:

Khahan trades his R19 pick in 2017 to Toral
Toral trades Andrew Heaney and his lowest non-keeper pick in 2017 (currently round 24) to Khahan.

(post 161)
      ID: 4211109
      Fri, Mar 10, 2017, 10:12

Khahan trades Felix Hernandez (4) to Wiggs

Wiggs trades Billy Hamilton (8) to Khahan
      ID: 42142238
      Fri, Mar 10, 2017, 11:47
Confirmed trade
      ID: 462391013
      Fri, Mar 10, 2017, 14:43
Also this is a good time to remind to remind everybody - when trades are made before the league is activated on yahoo, let me make the roster shuffles. Do not do it yourself. When I do it, the add/drop is marked with a (c) which notifies everybody this was a trade as opposed to a FA pick up. If you do it on your own the transaction will simply look like you are picking up a FA which can cause headaches next year sorting out who is keeper eligible and who isn't.
60 Tree
      ID: 77532019
      Sun, Mar 12, 2017, 16:53
looking to move one or more of the following:
Stephen Piscotty (CF/RF, round 6)
Nick Castellanos (3b, round 7)
Dee Gordon (2b, round 14)

because of when they were drafted, i think all 3 are relative bargains, especially Gordon.

make me a fair offer if interested.
61 WG
      ID: 35338278
      Mon, Mar 13, 2017, 21:22
Still looking for a cheap keeper or two. Please let me know if interested in dealing.
      ID: 367431722
      Mon, Mar 13, 2017, 21:32
Though this one isn't exactly worthy of bold letters and flashing lights.

Khahan sends Devon Travis (and last pick to balance) to WG

WG sends his 19th round pick to Khahan
      ID: 35338278
      Mon, Mar 13, 2017, 21:34

Can still use one more!!
      ID: 35338278
      Mon, Mar 13, 2017, 22:03

Wiggs gets WG's 13
WG gets Wiggs's 24 and Jon Gray (24)
      ID: 42142238
      Mon, Mar 13, 2017, 22:51
      ID: 531322718
      Tue, Mar 14, 2017, 06:58
How is it that the draft has started when keepers are not due until 11:59 tonight?
      ID: 42142238
      Tue, Mar 14, 2017, 07:57
Gurudan missed pick but I am not picking until he does please don't pick behind me if I time out
      ID: 0181517
      Tue, Mar 14, 2017, 08:20
I am assuming this will all be reversed since the keeper deadline hasn't occurred yet.
      ID: 0181517
      Tue, Mar 14, 2017, 08:22
And, of course, the draft doesn't start till Friday.
70 gurudan
      ID: 56216310
      Tue, Mar 14, 2017, 09:40
I'm first in Guru history to miss the first overall pick!!!!
      ID: 367431722
      Tue, Mar 14, 2017, 09:50
No, you didn't miss the pick. The daily draft pause reset itself to be from midnight to midnight so the clock actually started running last night. I stopped the timer, you have 2 hours and 10 mins left on the clock. :)
      ID: 538552113
      Tue, Mar 14, 2017, 10:57
Except the draft doesn't start until Friday...
      ID: 39230821
      Tue, Mar 14, 2017, 11:03
Yeah can we pause it entirely for now?
      ID: 367431722
      Tue, Mar 14, 2017, 12:28
checking dates is super important. I'm getting my leagues confused. Stopping draft altogether as we still until midnight tonight for keepers per post 35.

So, still time to trade, still time to edit lists.
      ID: 82171512
      Wed, Mar 15, 2017, 13:56
We are now up and running. The draft is open at draftime, though there is no clock. Wiggs may pick or may not. There is no clock until Friday morning. But people can now go in and set up queues and set designated pickers and generally get themselves organized.
      ID: 24100310
      Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 00:49
Not sure if everything has been processed yet...but I should have Bean's 13th round pick and he should have my 24th round pick.
      ID: 5271715
      Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 16:59
1 quick note to keep in mind:

2 trades processed by me on draftime did not process properly. Wiggs traded me Billy Hamilton. I deleted the choice from Wiggs list which left his slot empty. However the slot is locked and he is not being given a round 8 pick at draftime.

I had also penciled in my R14 pick from last year as a keeper but ultimately decided it against it. When I corrected this on the site, it did the same thing - deleted the player but the left the pick locked and unavailable.

Tree - you are first to pick after Wiggs in round 8. Thumqer you are first to pick after me in R14. Please hold your picks until we get this resolved. My clock and Wiggs' clock will still apply, even if we have to post a pick here and just put into Yahoo.
      ID: 42142238
      Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 18:54
I will take familia with this pick
      ID: 51116166
      Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 19:15
Familiar is in draftime for wiggs already so tree feel free to pick when ready
      ID: 27592412
      Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 02:21
We've been paused all day, no progress. Did I miss the announcement as to why?
      ID: 1520209
      Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 10:00
No clock on the weekend Bean. That's all.

We are making really good progress though so I'm not really concerned about yesterday. We're not going quite as fast as we are in the Dirty Dozen, but 8 Men Out will finish with plenty of time before the seasons begins as long as we don't lose track.
      ID: 42142238
      Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 13:20
Picking Gleyber Torres pick 12.04
Used Ramon torres as my place holder
      ID: 1520209
      Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 13:25
82 confirmed. email received. At this point its important to remind people to check both yahoo and draftime before making a pick. If there is a discrepancy and you aren't sure if a player is available, just ask.

Torres is in Yahoo so he is a viable pick for Wiggs. However, if draftime were to add him, he'd show as available there - he is taken.

Also I've been entering draft picks as we go. PLEASE go to the draft page in the Yahoo league and check your team and notify me of any errors. They are much easier to correct now.
      ID: 367431722
      Wed, Mar 22, 2017, 07:48
Hey all, sorry for the draft delay last night.
      ID: 0181517
      Fri, Mar 24, 2017, 18:01
My draft selections have been entered correctly.
      ID: 531322718
      Fri, Mar 24, 2017, 18:26
My team is correct
87 gurudan
      ID: 56216310
      Fri, Mar 24, 2017, 19:18
some how my team is missing Donaldson, trout, arenado, and koufax. oh wait, I see the problem! just messin' mine's correct
      ID: 592132423
      Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 00:14
Looks good
      ID: 27592412
      Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 01:59
Mine is good
      ID: 538552113
      Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 08:29
Looks good.
      ID: 371026520
      Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 12:15
roster is correct
      ID: 92521217
      Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 13:21
Everything looks good.
      ID: 367431722
      Sun, Mar 26, 2017, 10:59
Second email sent to the final five who need to check in. We'll get the season started asap once they check in.
      ID: 1123288
      Sun, Mar 26, 2017, 12:32
Looks good for me.
96Bryants blue eyes
      ID: 442232613
      Sun, Mar 26, 2017, 14:23
All good
      ID: 77532019
      Sun, Mar 26, 2017, 20:49
looks good.
      ID: 39230821
      Mon, Mar 27, 2017, 23:03
Good! Sorry for the wait
      ID: 36458112
      Mon, May 01, 2017, 13:58
Hey all,

Lorenzo Cain is up for grabs. He comes along take up just a round 20 slot. This is a RF who can hit .280 and steal 20+ bases while still giving you double digit HR potential. If you are in contention and need to shore up your stats for a fight this season send me an offer. Or if you want a keeper quality player who wont cost a high draft pick next year. I've got Aaron Judge pushing him for playing time.

You could send me an offer for Judge if you want (he's a R15 draft pick) but he'll cost you a lot more than Cain.

I could REALLY use some pitching.
      ID: 304422310
      Mon, Oct 02, 2017, 10:16
Grats Thumqer.

I just couldn't mind my Ps and Qs well enough this year.
      ID: 24100310
      Mon, Oct 02, 2017, 13:46
Congrats on the win!!!
      ID: 531322718
      Mon, Oct 02, 2017, 20:01
Congratulations, Thumqer
      ID: 39230821
      Wed, Oct 04, 2017, 07:32
Thanks! It was a very fun season. We'll see who dethrones me next year!
      ID: 991859
      Thu, Oct 05, 2017, 10:18
Congratulation to Thumpers on winning the 4th seaon of the 8 Men Out Keeper league. This one wasn't even close. Also Vampire Weekend takes home hardware for the second year in a row. Last years champion comes in second place for the silver trophy this year. And Bean, the runner up in our inaugural season takes him his second trophy in 4 years, placing 3rd. Good work to everybody and nice season.

Honorable mention goes to Foot for pushing Bean right up to the very end, coming in 4th just 2 points out of placing.

Final standings:

1 avatar Thumpers. 116 -0.5 - 2 24
2 avatar VampireWeekend. 104 -0.5 12 13 58
3 avatar Bean's Mudhens. 96 0.5 20 10 51
4 avatar Foot's Soldiers. 94 1.5 22 6 50
5 avatar WG. 82 0.5 34 1 60
6 avatar fear the monkey. 81.5 0 34.5 7 42
7 avatar Niagara Meridians. 74.5 0 41.5 5 55
8 avatar Bryant's Blue Eyes. 68 -1.5 48 9 6
9 avatar Khahan's Keepers. 65.5 0 50.5 11 24
10 avatar Taxman Out. 65 0 51 14 42
11 avatar The Power of Lemke. 64 0 52 3 59
12 avatar C1's Stocking Feat. 56 0 60 8 4
13 avatar Super Twins. 44 0 72 4 23
14 avatar Big Bushy Beer'd.
      ID: 991859
      Thu, Oct 05, 2017, 10:25
I have 1 message from a manager that he may be giving up his team. I'm waiting final word from but appreciate that he is being open about his interest and is showing enough initiative and consideration to the rest of league to give this decision some thought. If he decides to stay we'll be happy to have him as I'll assume feels he'll give it his all.

With that said, there is the potential of another manager losing his team for inattention.
      ID: 77532019
      Fri, Oct 06, 2017, 13:23
my season was so bad, i didn't even get my scores posted. :D
      ID: 367431722
      Sun, Jan 07, 2018, 13:58
So we need to have a little discussion on Shohei Ohtani. Yahoo has announced he will be added as a pitcher and a hitter. This gives the league something we need to decide and the sooner the better only because how we handle it from there will greatly affect his value and could affect people's pre-season preparations. Here are the choices we have that I see right now:

1. Hitter and player are 2 separate entities and must be drafted and treated separately. This is easiest to track but honestly I think greatly devalues him

2. In the draft hitter and player are 1 person and when you draft one the other gets drafted, losing your last round pick. But once the season starts they are 2 separate entities and can be dropped/traded handled as individual players. This gives him the most value and the manager the most flexibility but seems a bit odd.

3. In the draft hitter and player are 1 person and when you draft one the other gets drafted, losing your last round pick. Once the season starts, they are still considered 1 person, taking up 2 roster spots. But they must be traded, dropped/added together. This makes the most sense but has the most possibility of causing problems. Especially in an add/drop situation. While it improves his draft value it may actually depress his trade value.

Naming him as a keeper will follow along whichever option we pick above. If we go with option 1 or 2, then each part of ohtani is a completely individual player for all intents and purposes. The hitter must meet hitting thresholds to be kept, the pitcher must meet pitching thresholds to be kept. He takes up 2 roster spots and as such 2 keeper spots.

If we go with option 3 then to be named a keeper he must meet either/or and he is 1 keeper slot (but still 2 roster slots, no way around that).
      ID: 531322718
      Thu, Jan 11, 2018, 20:49
In a perfect world I would favor #3, but it could be a pain to monitor and implement. I would be okay with #1 since that is the way Yahoo has it set up and would be the simplest way. I would be opposed to #2.
      ID: 77532019
      Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 18:00
for simplicity, i would vote for #1 also.
      ID: 340321614
      Tue, Jan 16, 2018, 15:59
My problems with options 2 and 3 are the "losing your last round pick" caveat.

I would lean towards #2 if the drafter loses the NEXT eligible round pick. Ohtani would retain the value of the highest round whenever traded, with his second-level value being that of the NEXT eligible round for the new manager also.

For example: I draft him in the 4th round, but am keeping my 5th, 6th, and 7th round picks from last year. Ohtani's value is now 4th/8th.
Tree offers me Bryce Harper, Xander Bogaerts, and Yu Darvish for him. In a moment of weakness, I make the trade.
Next year Tree wants to keep David Price (4th), Ryon Healey (5th) and Roberto Osuna (6th) because they all had career years this year and finished 1-2-3 in the MVP voting, but doesn't keep Greg Bird (7th) for "reasons" (who knows what he's thinking). Ohtani's value for Tree is now 3rd/7th
      ID: 39230821
      Tue, Jan 16, 2018, 23:43
I similarly am in favor of option 1 for simplicity sake
      ID: 540141715
      Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 16:19
agreed we need to simplify things.
      ID: 140401720
      Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 21:40
Lean to #1
      ID: 029463114
      Wed, Jan 24, 2018, 13:47
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