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0 Subject: 2018 Political Baseball Rules Change Vote

Posted by: Nerveclinic
- [53715255] Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 12:53


Here are a few proposals to vote on.

1) Change from BA to OBP

2) Change from Wins to QS

3) SV+HD instead of just SV.

4) Increase the number of prospects from 5 to 8 and at start of next year you can keep 5 of the 8. Just floating this version, if someone has a better idea jump in. This year still can only keep 3.

Is there anything I am missing?

1Nerveclinic
      ID: 53715255
      Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 12:54

My Vote

1) OBP

2) QS

3) Saves only

4) Yes to 8 prospects keeping 5

2Bean
      ID: 304422310
      Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 13:05
My Vote

1) OBP
2) QS
3) SV+HD
4) No to 8 prospects

The most urgent vote is how to handle Otani. If we move to ESPN, he will be one player. I think staying at Yahoo forces him to be two players. Once we decide which platform, then we can continue to refine what else we'll do. I like Yahoo, for continuity and the ability to place a "K" next to our prospects in player pool. However, ESPN is a more elegant solution to the Otani problem. Though I like you Barilko, I see the Keeper stealing as a bigger issue than Otani, so I would vote Yahoo. (BTW I found that Meatwads had picked up Blake Snell, ArtofMonk's prospect on the last day of the season and used him. It did not affect the standings, so no asterisk is necessary).
3DHamm
      ID: 5715219
      Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 13:07
1. BA

2. Wins

3. Saves Only

4. Increase to 8 and keep 5.
4Bobo
      ID: 71432111
      Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 14:20
My vote

1. OBP
2. Wins
3. Saves Only
4. Increase to 8 prospects, keeping 5
5barilko6
      ID: 852443-4
      Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 14:21
1. BA
2. Abstain - I am ok with both
3. Saves
4. Increase to 8 and Keep 5

Just so things don't get messy, I posted my thoughts on Ohtani in the our regular thread.
6C1-NRB
      ID: 501152115
      Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 16:15
1. OBP

2. QS

3. SV only

4. Keep at 5
7Meatwads
      ID: 852443-4
      Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 06:52
1. OBP
2. QS
3. SV+HD
4. Increase to 8, Keep as many as 5
8WG
      Donor
      ID: 35338278
      Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 07:26
1. AVG
2. W
3. S
4. Keep at 5
9Taxman
      SuperDude
      ID: 029463114
      Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 08:30
1 OBP
2 QS
3 Saves+holds
4 Keep current system (5 keep 3)
10Tree
      ID: 77532019
      Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 14:42
1. OBP
2. Wins
3. Saves only
4. Increase to 8 prospects, keeping 5
11artofmonk
      ID: 491532215
      Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 16:53
1. OBP
2. QS
3. Saves + Holds
4. Increase to 8 keep 5
12GoatLocker
      ID: 4211359
      Sat, Feb 24, 2018, 13:17
My Vote

1) OBP
2) QS
3) SV+HD
4) Keep current system (5 keep 3)

Addressed Ohtani in other thread.
13Bean
      ID: 304422310
      Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 20:16
Nerve can we rap this up please? I assume those who haven't voted don't care.
14Bean
      ID: 304422310
      Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 21:12
Two managers have yet to vote, PermDude and biliruben. They have 24 hours from this post to vote.

I researched our rule set for voting and found this quote in a prospect rule change thread:

The majority of votes made at that time will determine the rule change positive or negative.

Ties end in status quo is how I will interpret tie votes.


If I have tallied it correctly, the votes stand as follows:

1) Average 3 votes
OBP 9 votes
Category will change to OBP

2) Wins 5 votes
Quality Starts 7 votes
Category will change to QS unless both bili and PD vote against.

3) Saves 7 votes
Saves + Holds 5 votes
Category will remain Saves

4) 5 prospects (3 keepers) 5 votes
8 prospects (5 keepers) 7 votes
We will now allow 8 prospects and 5 prospect keepers, unless both bili and PD vote against the increase.


I will alter the categories tomorrow to reflect the voting. This should help you in reassessing your players with the revised rules.

I will also be starting a keeper thread tomorrow that will reflect the vote on prospects. You will be able to change your keepers all the way up to the deadline, so I urge you to put a place holder keeper list down, even if you are not done trading.
15Tree
      ID: 217372011
      Sun, Mar 04, 2018, 09:15
Wait?

These rule changes take affect for this season?

I'm out.

No time, patience, or interest in researching an obscure stat (QS) that is rarely used in any of the numerous sources I use for research, nor is a metric in any other league in which I play.

Sorry for the late notice. I must have missed the part about these changes being made immediately.
16Bean
      ID: 304422310
      Sun, Mar 04, 2018, 12:43
I think you are right Tree, I guess in my zeal to get this thing moving, I was rushing its implementation.

It is not normal to make substantive changes effective for the upcoming season. Rather, most keeper leagues would vote for them one year and implement them the following year, giving owners a season to make moves anticipating the changes.

There is a thread started in AUG 2016 that created a prospect rule change that took effect for the 2017 season. The discussion of 1400 IP limit started in SEP 2016 and was implemented in 2017. There were a number of changes that were voted on just before the 2013 season, that didn't take effect until the 2014 season as well. I went through old threads, back to 2014, to see if I could find other examples of delaying rule changes for a year. I didn't find any.

Anyway, barring objection, I will not alter the Constitution until the end of this season, based on precedence. I will, however, make a note in the Constitution reflecting our voted on changes for next year.

The stat categories and the keepers will remain the same this year as they were last year. The agreed on changes will take effect in the 2019 season. Objections?

Thanks again Tree for keeping me straight on this.

17GoatLocker
      ID: 361242417
      Sun, Mar 04, 2018, 16:09
No objection here.
Works fine for me.

GL
18Tree
      ID: 77532019
      Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 07:59
and my apologies for possibly over reacting, at least prematurely.

i've been contemplating leaving this league for a couple years now - i'm in too many leagues for real life, at this point in my life.

last year, Donny convinced me to stay. this year, seeing most of my friends return early was a factor.

but this will be my last year. i'll play it out, and play it out like i always do, with the intent of winning.

it would be nice to retire as champion.
19 Taxman
      SuperDude
      ID: 029463114
      Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 10:44
And I would like you to stay next year as well
20Tree
      ID: 77532019
      Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 12:35
lol. i appreciate it Donny, but if i've only got one league using "QS" as a stat, i'm not staying in that league.

it's not something regularly used in any of the print or online research sites i use, except for the occasional article that crops up every couple years, always named "why QS is a better measurement than wins."

and it may be, but no one uses it in any rankings. so it's useless.
21Tree
      ID: 77532019
      Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 12:40
that being said, i would at least consider coming back if we start using WHISK as a stat.
22Bean
      ID: 304422310
      Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 12:43
WHISK, isnt that some kind of detergent? Next you will want Tide Pod swalllowing as a categpry.
23Tree
      ID: 77532019
      Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 14:45
WHISK, SHOVE, and PING are among the cool mathnerd stats all the hip leagues are moving towards.
24biliruben
      ID: 255502715
      Tue, Feb 12, 2019, 23:09
I vote against QS.
25biliruben
      ID: 255502715
      Tue, Feb 12, 2019, 23:10
And don't we need 2/3rds for a rule change?
26biliruben
      ID: 255502715
      Tue, Feb 12, 2019, 23:22
I was wrong. 8 votes to pass.

http://rotoguru1.com/cgi-bin/read.pl?board=pol&thread=3087&last=1208263741

It's still wins.
27biliruben
      ID: 255502715
      Tue, Feb 12, 2019, 23:41
I have also scanned all my emails. There was not even the slightest attempt to contact me, either before or during the 24 hour warning. A month before opening day. My work considers this site porn (which, in a way it is), so since the death of the poli board, I don't really come here unless we are actively drafting. In the grand scheme of things, I don't really give a shit, but it was a kinda crappy way to shove a pretty lousy rule through, without even a majority.
28Bean
      ID: 304422310
      Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 15:34
Bili,

This thread was started on 21 FEB, the 24 hour period started on 1 MAR. You had over a week to consider it and vote, even if you don't count the discussion in the main thread. Why would you wait for an entire year to make an issue of this?

You cite a 2009 thread for an 8 vote precedence, that is not documented in the constitution. I applied simple majority, which 8 votes would be, if not for the absentees.

I would ask again, why a year later?

You ask why you were not contacted. Is it your contention that it is the responsibility of the commish to contact every person who isn't paying attention to the threads during season planning stages that they aren't meeting deadlines? If so, I would invite you to be commish, or would even enjoy delegating the contacting responsibility to you. Interested?

29biliruben
      ID: 255502715
      Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 18:03
No, I'm not interested. I run my own league. And I fly 1700 miles every year to run it in-person. And well. Plenty of responsibility for me.

But if I were commish, I would at the very least post at least once on the league yahoo page, if 3 league-changing votes were being discussed.

Especially given it was the off season with no activity in our league for months and no reason for those not playing any other sports to even be on rotoguru.

Simple courtesy.

I only bring it up now, because I'm being belatedly a bit of a self-righteous dick, but also because one of the original members is quiting the league due to this very dubious rule change.
30Bean
      ID: 304422310
      Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 11:19
I am only doing commish, because NOBODY else will step up. We've got a keeper league with staying power, that's not something I'd like to see evaporate.

As an owner in this league, you are required to check in on the thread at rotoguru during pre-season planning. This isn't negotiable. In season, you should probably take a look now and then as well, in case someone posts there instead of at Yahoo league.

I don't like seeing Tree go as well, but he has his principles I guess.

So far I haven't heard from Perm Dude, so I am about to give his team to someone else, along with Tree's team (I have three prospective owners inquiring). Let's take this discussion back to the main thread, if it's not done now.
31Tree
      ID: 77532019
      Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 14:59
one of the original members is quiting the league due to this very dubious rule change.

I don't like seeing Tree go as well, but he has his principles I guess.

i appreciate it.

it's not about principles, however.

it's about changing to an uncommon stat, one that will require extensive extra research, and, as pointed out, is likely already dated now that we've entered the realm of the SPBC.

give it a couple years, when half the games are started by a guy going 1 or 2, and no one qualifies for a quality start by the current standards.

32biliruben
      ID: 255502715
      Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 20:17
As an owner in this league, you are required to check in on the thread at rotoguru during pre-season planning

If I'd had any way of knowing there was pre-season planning going on, I certainly would have.

I do appreciate you stepping up Bean, but that kinda statement is just straight out of your ass. Just accept that you should have taken 10 seconds to post on yahoo, and move on.
33Bean
      ID: 304422310
      Sat, Feb 16, 2019, 00:33
Bili try not to pretend you dont know when planning is going on. Just admit to yourself that you didnt bother to look at the thread for over a week after checking in with the league. If you dont care enough to vote on the issue, then why would you care enough to start something now.

Either you give a shit or you dont. every American knows if you dont vote you arent allowed to bitch when you dont like the result.

There was no voter suppression here, so quit whining. This discussion is over.
34Tree
      ID: 77532019
      Tue, Feb 19, 2019, 17:10
so, this league is still using QS? :D
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