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Subject: Buying New Computer- Tips, Recommendations
Posted by: MadDOG
- [1875498] Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 10:57
Monitor
Processor (chip)
Video Card
Sound Card
Speakers
How much RAM and what kind
Hard Drive size and model
How many bays?
Best DVD drive and speed
Best CD drive and speed
Do you need a floppy drive?
Motherboard and Motherboard speed
Ports (USB etc)
Modems
It's good to know things before you buy stuff. Any tips or recommendations about any of the things above would be appreciated. Maybe we can build a supercomputer right here in this thread. |
| 1 | biliruben
ID: 21551150
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 12:40
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What do you want to spend?
What do you want to use it for?
You can build a very nice machine for $500, or you could spend that just on the video card, if you are into the latest interactive real-time gaming.
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| 2 | MadDOG
ID: 1875498
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 12:49
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I'm really just looking at suggestions as to what has worked well for people on the boards.
Like if somebody knows a flat screen LCD moniter that has worked out well for them post it here or suggestions as to what to look for in a flat screen monitor. Or if you know of a really good DVD drive. That sort of thing.
Just a quick post as to what you like about your computer or dislike.
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| 3 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 12:52
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Processor/Display
Pentium® 4 Processor 530 with HT Technology (3GHz, 800 FSB)
Operating System
Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
Video Card
128MB PCI Express™ x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon™ X300 SE
Memory
512MB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at
533MHz (2x512M)
Hard Drive
80GB2 Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM)
Monitor
17 in Ultrasharp™ Digital Flat Panel Display
CD ROM/DVD ROM
Dual Drives: 48x CD-RW Drive + 16x DVD+RW/+R w/ double layer write
Sound Card
Sound Blaster Audigy™2 (D) Card w/Dolby 5.1, and IEEE 1394 capability
Speakers
Speakers w/Subwoofer
Keyboard/Mouse
Wireless Keyboard and Optical Mouse
Networking
Integrated Gigabit Ethernet
Currently $1561 from Dell. Oh yeah, FREE Dell 720 Color Printer with 1 Yr Advanced Exchange Service. Not the greatest, not bad. Ink must be ordered through Dell I believe, not a bad price except that you must get 2 packs. Fairly standard software, excellent expandibility.
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| 4 | MadDOG
ID: 1875498
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 12:59
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That's the Dell 8400 System right?
I almost ordered that one.
What's the difference between a Serial ATA drive and just a regular ATA drive.
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| 5 | Cosmo's Cod Piece
ID: 144192417
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 15:44
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You typed the word "supercomputer"....
Check out Falcon Northwest and Alienware.
I use my PC for gaming, office tasks, and the net. I would not recommend a flat screen LCD monitor. They do not hold up framerate-wise compared to the "old school" monitors. Also, they're mucho expensive. Take that money and turn it around into a faster processor and/or RAM and wait for the price to come down. Its a lot easier to upgrade a monitor than it is to upgrade a CPU.
Also, get yourself an external hard drive. I use a Maxtor One Touch 120GB(maybe 160) USB 2.0 and it makes backing up a joke.
Here's what has helped me immensely...Computer Shopper Magazine. They've got dealer ads for burners, etc etc etc. I got a 52X CDRW drive (In black to match my Dell case!) last year for under $100.
Invest in a case that will allow front USB and Firewire ports. It makes life much easier for me because I transport my USB thumbdrive to and from work/school/home and having that front plug in is great.
Good luck to you. Post your new system config on here when you get it!
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| 6 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 15:57
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Cosmo, I agree buying parts like the CDRW in your example seperately can save money, but how computer handy is MadDog? Don't know. About two years ago I got a 48x CDRW for about $60 at Costco (after mail in rebate). I liked it so much, as well as the deal, I got one for my nephew as a gift. However, most people like to get the goods up front.
One exception to that rule can be memory, which is so easy to replace and you can save quite a bit on later. But I'd still go with at least 512 to start with.
Monitors-----I love the space saving aspect of the flat panel monitors and the digital ones are clearer that my eyes can even take advantage of. Another big advantage is that the size euqals the viewable space. A 17" Flat Panel has 17" viewable while a 17" CRT has on many cases 15.6-15.9" viewable.
MadDog, that was a customized 8400 system. I have one almost identical to it. I also have two 8250s, which were a previous edition but same size and type. I have two 18" Ultrasharp Digital monitors and love them. My 3rd one is a 17" Flat Panel (not digital) and I like it as well.
Regarding processors, going from 3.0 to a 3.2 is roughly an $85 upgrade, and from 3.0 to 3.4 roughly $230. I don't think that is worth it. I've read many times that increasing from 3.0 to say 3.4 will only speed your system by less than 5% after all is said and done. The "FSB" is the front side bus and also affects speed. I prefer the 800 as it seems like a better value than other available speeds.
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| 7 | biliruben
ID: 441182916
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 16:10
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I agree, Mike D. Get a year old processor, and you can save a bundle, with negligible decrease in performance. By last year's machine and save a grand.
The only place I would spend a bit more is the video card, and you can still get a great card for $80 that is blazing fast except for the completely off-the-deep-end hardcore gamer.
Flat-screen isn't worth the money and too fragile, imho. Buy a used 19-21 inch for $75 bucks from a flat screen freak who "upgraded". How often do use that "saved" foot behind your flatscreen anyway? I guess you could stack your Maxims there, but what's the point?
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| 8 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 16:15
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LMFAO!!
Great stuff bili. Hey, our first flat panel was purchased after my wife went out and bought a desk that wasn't deep enough for our CRT!!!! I think she knew it all along, cuz' she wanted a flat panel. ;)
Seriously, watch the depth on your desk, table, etc.. CRTs need space and especially if you want a work area, mouse area, keyboard area, etc....
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| 9 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 16:38
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...stack your Maxim's there. Outstanding. F&*@ing outstanding, bili.
I too have been pondering a new computer. I'm just considering Dell's lower model as all I do pretty much is internet, burn CD's and view (not write) DVD's.
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| 10 | MadDOG
ID: 21716913
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 16:40
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I always assumed that flat panel LCD's were clearer and had a better picture than CRT's.
It sounds like I was wrong about that.
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| 11 | biliruben
ID: 441182916
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 16:48
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The only advantage I have found (I have a 21 inch crt at home and a 19 inch lcd at work), other than space, is that lcds tend to be a bit better if you are having a problem with glare. The overall picture quality is better with crts.
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| 12 | PuNk42AE
Donor
ID: 036635522
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 21:40
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I got one of the Dell 4600's souped up last year and its been great. (Except for when it got hit by virus's and malware, still isn't all the same).
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| 13 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 041831612
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 21:41
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Monitors, from ZDNet:
Why settle for a big, boxy CRT when you can get about as much screen area on a 17- or 18-inch LCD? Yes, LCDs are more expensive--prices start at $500--but they're also better looking and lighter, and they take up much less desk space.
If you're serious about image quality, think seriously about a CRT--they generally outperform LCDs in terms of color fidelity, viewing angles, and video and motion performance, not to mention price. Fortunately, 17-inch and 19-inch CRT prices have dropped to the point where almost anyone can now afford a jumbo CRT.
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| 14 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 041831612
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 21:50
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Regarding the LCDs, don't skimp either. I've taken back Monitors purchased from Costco and other places because I had to keep adjusting them to get them right, and that's a pain in the arse. Image quality is important, and you should be able to get an image you are happy with---and can leave as is. A lot of stores don't even have CRTs anymore, which is amazing.
Dell's monitor learning info is pretty decent. Among other things:
Quality
Flat panel quality is determined by resolution. Resolution refers to the number of individual pixels contained on a display. The higher the resolution, the more pixels can fit onto the screen and so the sharper and more detailed images can be displayed. Resolution together with contrast ratios, brightness and viewing angles determine the overall quality of a flat panel.
CRT quality is measured in dot pitch or strip pitch. Dot pitch is the measure of space between a display's pixels; the smaller the pitch, the sharper the images. A measurement of .27mm is average for dot pitch. The monitor's viewable area, refresh rate and dot pitch all directly affect the maximum resolution a monitor can display.
Choose a Flat Panel Display For...
Bright, sharp, flicker-free images, even at a 60Hz refresh rate
High productivity, low user fatigue and eyestrain
Helps to maximum image size in minimal physical size
Improved use of work space (Eh hem, the Maxims fit too)
Digital capability for optimal front of screen performance
Long useful product life (a flat panel is expected to have up to a 50% longer useful life than a CRT)1
No electromagnetic emissions, and resistance to electromagnetic interference
Potential lower cost of ownership as cost may be spread out over a longer period
Flat screen should not be confused with Flat Panel Displays . Flat screen CRT monitors are full sized, standard monitors with a flat screen. This added feature reduces the glare typically associated with rounded CRT screens.
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| 15 | culdeus
Leader
ID: 43105818
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 23:19
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I gave up desktops a couple of years ago and never looked back. The DellD600 is solid, built in 8011g means posting on the can, making roster moves in bed, or out in the yard.
I can't reccomend it highly enough, I also have a smaller clone laptop from sotec that has held up to around the house use, but I don't travel with it or use it as much.
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| 16 | MadDOG
ID: 47521011
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 15:10
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Hey MikeD, Check out this 5000 Series Computer from MilwaukeePC.
From looking at it, it seems cheaper and is better than the Dell 8400 Series.
You can customize it also. Any customizations you would include?
MilwaukeePC 5000 Series
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| 17 | MadDOG
ID: 47521011
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 15:12
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The monitor is not included in that though. So the price is probably gonna be close to the Dell 8400.
But it seems like a better system to me. Especially the video card, and the drives.
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| 18 | Perm Dude
ID: 2343587
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 15:15
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If you go with any Dell product, make sure to click through the Guru's sponsor page. He gets a small percentage of the sale and it doesn't cost you anything more.
pd
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| 19 | biliruben
ID: 441182916
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 15:23
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You can get something pretty close to that on ebay for under $500 bucks.
Sub in a little nicer graphics card, and you are good to go.
Hardware is practically free these days. No reason to spend a couple grand on a computer any more.
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| 20 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 15:46
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If your building your computer on your own, I'd definitely recommend an AMD processor. (Athlon 64's beat the P4's in most tests, and are over 200% cheaper.) I'd say get at least 1 gig of RAM, or if you go the 512 route make sure you get 1 stick of 512, and not 2 of 256. You'll want to upgrade to 1G later.
For the motherboard, I'd say get one with lots of USB ports, and a nice onboard sound chip. Tricky here, there's alot of cheap onboard audio that is just terrible, but a good onboard soundcard saves you the cost of a full audigy, and saves system resources that dont need to go to the PCI port. Onboard LAN should definitely be a required thing too. Basically, there's no reason to put things in a PCI port when they can be on your board. The only reason to have them seperated is to make upgrading easier, but things like LAN ports, sound cards, USB ports, etc. aren't things you'll be upgrading...
Try to get 1 DVD Burner/drive, instead of two seperate drives. Being able to do everything from one cd-drive (DVD burning, regular burning, DVD watching, regular CD use) isn't only handy, it means you dont have to split an IDE cable. Same goes for hard drives, one drive means it can have its own IDE cable. (Only get two drives if you plan on using RAID, which increases the speed of both drives. Nice to have, but not neccessary.)
Video card is tricky, the Radeon 9800 XT is still a great card, but Nvidia's newest card is tops for sure. Still not fully mainstream yet, as Nvidia is doing the usual market skimming with new products and has it listed at close to 800-900$. The Radeon X800 is in the same boat. Probably best to wait a few months there until the market has picked a winner. (Nothing worse then having the 'other' top card for two+ years!)
All that said, if you dont know how to build a computer, I'd recommend trying to con a friend who does into doing it for you. Its really the best way to go, both price and parts-wise. All these Dell and Compaq, etc... who knows what motherboard is in it? They don't use utter crap, but its not the top of the line stuff either. Same goes for memory. Paying a tad extra for a solid board, top notch memory, and a nice case /w good cooling, adds a tad to the overall cost, but lets you do minimal overclocking that can bring your 300$ CPU chip into the 700-800$ range.
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| 21 | MadDOG
ID: 47521011
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 15:50
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That only has 1/2 the RAM, and the video and sound cards aren't as good.
Who is the hard drive and DVD drive made by? What are the specs of each It's probably a cheap hard drive and DVD drive.
No Moniter.
Still for 500 bucks including shipping it's probably not that bad.
But can this guy/company be trusted?
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| 22 | MadDOG
ID: 47521011
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 15:53
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the above post is about the Gateway computer in Bili's post on EBAY
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| 23 | MadDOG
ID: 47521011
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 15:56
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Hey R9, what do you think about the system in post 16 from Milwaukee PC?
You can customize over on the right of that page including using the Athlon chip you mentioned. How would you customize it? How's the price.
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| 24 | biliruben
ID: 441182916
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 15:58
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There's the rub. I don't really buy anything on ebay, but I see similar deals on my local craigslist board, if you desire to look the guy in the eye and know where he lives.
If you want to pay double for piece of mind, that's up to you.
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| 25 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 16:27
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MadDOG, The default package was so-so, but the customizable options were nice. The mobo is a nice board too, although no onboard audio. (So your putting an Audigy in a PCI port that you dont need...) The video card is junk, but you can change that. I added a 9800XT 256mb just because thats what I want ;) but you can add another one if you dont play alot of games. (The 9600XT's are nice too.) Getting an Athlon 64 (3000 is definitely fine) is solid too.
The monitor options aren't my favorites either, but I guess they're servicable. I'd go out of my way to get a nice Samsung 19" flat CRT though.
One last issue, it comes with no serious cooling. I don't even know if the case can handle any case fans, although it'd be pretty stupid to make a case these days that can't add at least one. As I said though, good memory (I added two sticks of Kingston 3500) good board and good cooling can turn your 3000 into a 3400+ easily.
My changes brought the package to $2,400 though. ;) Which I think is quite costly, but of course you dont have to do any work on it...
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| 26 | MadDOG
ID: 367181017
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 18:18
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The NVIDIA FX5500 is junk? I thought that was a pretty good video card.
Oh Well, I can add one of those 9600XT's for like $75 bucks. I'm not gonna spend the money on the one you like.
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| 27 | R9
Leader
ID: 02624472
Wed, Aug 11, 2004, 14:43
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Its a half-decent card, but you're buying this computer to last you for a while and the FX5500 won't hold up in a few months to any new game. May as well spring for a decent card. The 9600XT is slightly better, but probably in the same boat as far as gaming down the road. It really comes down to how much you think you'll play games. If you seriously wont be playing any, the FX5500 is fine. Even if you are playing games, if you dont want to spring for the 9800XT, you can always wait 6-8 months and grab one of the new cards that are out...
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| 28 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Wed, Aug 11, 2004, 14:47
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Species, watch the lower end Dells for a couple of reasons. One, they are often hard to expand in the future due to: small tower size (no room for adding drives), and in some cases integrated cards (sound especially). Another thing is by the time you move to the processor, memory, etc that you want, you coulda had a higher end model anyway. Kinda like buying a stripped down car and then adding cruise, power windows and brakes, automatic, etc, when you could have just gone standard a class or two higher.
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| 29 | beastiemiked
Sustainer
ID: 03531815
Wed, Aug 11, 2004, 15:25
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I disagree Mike. For what Species wants to do a low end model would be perfect. There's no need to spend an extra $500-$1000 for stuff he'll never even need.
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| 30 | Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Wed, Aug 11, 2004, 15:27
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Depends on whether he cares about some of the other things I noted. He may, he may not. I'm just making sure he is aware of those other possible issues before taking a plunge.
No way I can ever guess what that dude is thinkin'. ;)
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| 31 | KTx
ID: 24719523
Thu, Aug 12, 2004, 19:30
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Dell has EXCELLENT deals from time to time (they used it have them more often)
I bought my Dell 8400 last month.
Pentium® 4 Processor 530 with HT Technology (3GHz, 800 FSB)
Operating System
Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
Video Card
128MB PCI Express™ x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon™ X300 SE
Memory
512MB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at
533MHz (2x512M)
Hard Drive
40GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM)
Free CDRW Upgrade
No speakers, no wireless keyboard/mouse (just the regular ones), and no monitor.
Got a free printer though (which I turned around and sold it for 50 dollars).
It was 800 dollars or so. There was also a 100 dollar rebate on top of that.
So in total, I got my computer for 650 dollars shipped. I'm pretty pleased with it.
Just keep an eye out for deals if you arent in a hurry to get one yet.
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| 32 | MadDOG
ID: 0755149
Sat, Aug 14, 2004, 15:37
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Does anybody know anything about all the options that a Video Card can have?
Things like video in/video out, s video, DVI ports?
Man, it is getting difficult to buy a computer with all the stuff you have to know now.
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| 33 | KTx
ID: 30725142
Sun, Aug 15, 2004, 04:15
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Video Cards rarely have TV-IN (except the All-In-Wonder Video Cards).
for TV In, people usually get a TV Tuner Card.
S-Video allows for tv out
Im not exactly sure what DVI is, but if u have DVI and VGA slot, it allows u to have dual monitors (but i wouldnt look too much into that if u dont need to).
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| 34 | MadDOG
ID: 36754158
Sun, Aug 15, 2004, 10:00
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Yea, I have read about that "All in Wonder" card.
Supposed to be a good card but it's getting kind of old isn't it?
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| 35 | Cosmo's Cod Piece
ID: 144192417
Sun, Aug 15, 2004, 10:29
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You'll want a graphics board that has both DVI and VGA outputs. That feature is fairly common amoung newer ATI boards. I'm not sure about GeForce because I prefer ATI. On the software side, its a cinch to config WinXP Home to run two monitors.
I run two CRT monitors off my Radeon 9700 Pro (I had to buy a $25 adapter from CompUSA to convert the DVI port to VGA.) and its great for fantasy drafts and websurfing.
I use one monitor for the actual live draft and the other for Excel stat sheets and webpages. You'll wonder how you ever managed without it. I waited and got the second monitor on sale at Office Depot for $70 (after rebates).
You don't necessarily need an internal TV Tuner card. There are USB models out there so you can save that PCI slot.
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| 36 | KTx
ID: 30725142
Mon, Aug 16, 2004, 01:23
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Re:35
I do not know much about running Dual Monitors
How does it work? Is it just like one giant horizontal screen if u were to place them side by side?
Also, where did you get your adapter?
I have an extra monitor laying around... might as well use it somehow =)
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| 37 | Cosmo's Cod Piece
ID: 144192417
Sun, Aug 22, 2004, 12:58
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KTx:
There's two ways to setup a Dual Monitor configuration.
1) This is the method I used. I purchased an ATI Radeon graphics card with VGA and DVI outputs. It also has an S-Video output which you can use to hookup to a television.
The VGA plug is your standard monitor connector. DVI is meant for LCDs (I believe.). The DVI to VGA adapter was purchased from CompUSA (referenced in my prior posting). I plugged the adapter into the DVI port on the graphics card, then plugged in my second monitor. That was it as far as hardware was concerned.
2) You can purchase a cheap PCI video card so that you have two video cards running in your system. Plug in the monitors like normal and viola! I do not recommend this because it eats up a PCI slot.
"How does it work?"
This is for WinXP Home Edition. On the desktop, right click and click on Properties. Click on the Settings Tab. Under "Display", click the dropdown to select your newly added monitor. Now click the button that reads, "Extend my Windows desktop onto this monitor."
Now if you want to change the resolution or anything, you'll have to use the dropdown to select which monitor you want to change.
That should be it.
"Is it just like one giant horizontal screen if u were to place them side by side?"
In a way yes and in a way no. You'll have the same wallpaper for each monitor, yet you can store shortcuts, run videos, surf the web, and a ton of other things on the second monitor independant from the first monitor.
For PC games, I just turn the power off on my second monitor.
This is one of those PC upgrades that is just so frickin handy and easy to manage. I'll never go back to having one monitor.
I read a story in Computer Shopper or PC World about a custom setup that had like four monitors. That would be my paradise if I had the deskspace.
Does anybody know how to change the wallpaper on the second monitor so it is different from the first monitor?
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| 38 | KTx
ID: 50837515
Sun, Sep 05, 2004, 16:37
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Thanks for the info!
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| 39 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Sat, Sep 11, 2004, 11:16
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What a great thread! I should come by this forum more often.
From my experiences...
Definitely agree that Athlon's are better than P4s. Like was stated earlier, they outperform P4s and are MUCH cheaper! If you're building one or having one built, also think about an extra case fan. I am told that cooler machines are more productive machines. Don't know what that threshold is though.
RAM...Don't underestimate this. There are all kinds of tests that have been run on these puppies and simply because the chips say that they have 256 or whatever, doesn't mean they will run as fast as a 256 from another company. I highly recommend MICRON. They are a few dollars more but give you a whole lot more bang for your buck. You can even go to Micron.com and it will analyze your memory and tell you what your current configuration is and what part you need to order--even if it's not from them.
As far as computers, I look more at all the specs from well-known companies more than focus on one company such as Dell. Most of what I've seen from Dell have been similar quality, but pricier. Dell seems to overload their computers with stuff that is just superfluous for me. Love their laptops though! I really like what HP has been doing lately too--esp since their merger with Compaq.
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