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Subject: Paypal account closed
Posted by: Guru
- [330592710] Wed, Jul 26, 2006, 23:13
I just received a notice from Paypal that my account has been closed for violation of the acceptable use policy on gambling.
I have emailed Paypal to ask for specifics, as I am aware of no gambling related activity. It is possible, however, that someone recently sent me a GuruPatron donation as a result of losing a bet. But that's just a guess.
Meanwhile, I have no Paypal account open for the time being. So don't try to send any donations, as they'll probably be rejected.
If anyone has any similar experience with having a Paypal account cancelled, I'd be curious as to if/how it was resolved.
And if anyone has a suggestion for an alternative to Paypal, I'm also interested. |
| 1 | rockafellerskank
ID: 180352016
Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 00:11
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have you tried to log in via the Pay Pal site (not thru the e-amil). Sounds like a possible spoof e-mail?
Do you get ad payments from Noble Poker or a gambling site (ie betonsports.com) into your Pay Pal? That could trigger Pay Pal to close.
Alternatives:
Firepay
Netteller
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| 2 | rockafellerskank
ID: 180352016
Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 00:14
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just tried to send you $1 and was rejected, so it looks like it is the real Pay Pay
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| 3 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 08:37
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They cited two specific payments by reference number, but I'll have to wait until I get home to see what those payments were.
They also denied my appeal, so I guess I'm in the market for a new service. I'll deal with that next week as well.
I do remember a recent payment from someone saying "this is a payment for a bet lost to xxx. Please credit it to his GuruPatron account." If so, I guess that looks pretty incriminating to a third party who doesn't know what's really happening.
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| 4 | StLCards
Leader
ID: 31010716
Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 09:23
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That is a pretty poor policy. It would seem like I could send a payment to anyone with a PayPal account, include similar wording, and their account would be suspended. They wouldn't even have to know me. I don't recall the option of previewing and rejecting a payment.
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| 5 | What about Bob
ID: 4162270
Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 10:20
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That's pretty ridiculous if that is true. I am in complete agreement with StlCards. The policy is just assinine, and quite frankly scary to others reading this who use Paypal and have no other choice but to use their service.
Guru has to be one of the most ethical and upstanding people that I know, and for an independent 3rd party to be able to do this type of damage(innocently or intentionally), without any recourse being able to be taken is absurd. What stops any 3rd party from inflicting this type of damage on any Paypal user??
Guru, please look for a private email from me as I have a direct contact at Paypal who can hopefully get this situation resolved for you.
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| 6 | Perm Dude
ID: 4967279
Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 10:32
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We have a WAB sighting!
Jeez, that whole "paying off a bet" thing could have been written by me. Or a half dozen other losers here.
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| 7 | Motley Crue
Dude
ID: 439372011
Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 10:34
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You know, I think the last time I sent a donation in I might have mentioned a bet lost. I bet basically against myself in January when Guru and I played in the RIFC final.
This decision on PayPal's part is annoying. I suppose they have their policies set up to disallow illegal payments, which gambling transactions would be.
My question is "Is it actually gambling if we make wagers that all wind up as donations to Guru anyway?" Is that technically gambling? Is it not making a donation?
Guru, if it was a transaction of mine they cited, feel free to display it publicly without fear of embarrassing me. I'm interested to see what they deemed transgressive. I suppose it's a lesson for donors in the future.
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| 8 | ukula
ID: 14642279
Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 10:42
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If you play with fire you're going to get burned. It's a damn shame. ;)
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| 9 | Motley Crue
Dude
ID: 439372011
Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 10:44
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Well, well, well.
Hi, ukula. How ya doing, buddy? How's your fantasy baseball season going? You winning?
It's nice to see you again. Yeah.
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| 10 | Perm Dude
ID: 4967279
Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 10:45
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Any chance you can post the text of their denial, Guru?
I think several of us can also write to them regarding this--explaining these were donation bets and not real ones. The worse that can happen is that they continue to deny you access. Which is where you are right now anyway.
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| 11 | StLCards
Leader
ID: 31010716
Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 12:04
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I just noticed an option for 'refund payment' that is available for 60 days after the payment is received. Maybe if you use that option then a 'gambling' or other type of 'unacceptable' payment won't count against you.
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| 12 | boikin
ID: 400291013
Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 12:23
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I have delt with paypal on seceral occasions with them putting holds on accounts and they can be quite 'nazi' about the whole process. Have you tried calling them usually if you can talk directly to a person you can get the matters resolved though it usually takes several months for it to all clear. Many time people at this piont just chose to open a new account under a different email name.
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| 13 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 13:20
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Here is the text of the initial notice:The PayPal User Agreement states that PayPal, at its sole discretion,
reserves the right to close an account for any violation of the User
Agreement, including the Acceptable Use Policy.
Under the Acceptable Use Policy, you may not use PayPal to send or receive
payments for any form of gambling activities, including but not limited to
payment for wagers, gambling debts or gambling winnings, whether conducted
online, in person or through any other means of communication. This
includes all casino games, sports books and sports betting, horse and
greyhound racing, person-to-person betting, and certain games of skill.
The complete Acceptable Use Policy addressing Gambling can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/use/index_frame-outside&ed=gambling
We are hereby notifying you that, after a recent review of your account
activity, it has been determined that you are in violation of PayPal's
Acceptable Use Policy. Therefore, your account has been closed.
If you have a remaining balance, we will be issuing this to you by bank
transfer. If you do not have a bank account listed, it is necessary that
you add one in order for us to transfer these funds. If you already have
a bank account listed, please log in to your PayPal account and verify that
your account information is accurate, as PayPal cannot be held responsible
for incorrect information provided by the account holder.
You will need to remove all references to PayPal from your website(s)
and/or auction(s). This includes not only removing PayPal as a payment
option, but also the PayPal logo and/or shopping cart. We thank you in
advance for your cooperation. If you have any questions, please contact
the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy Department at aup@paypal.com.
Sincerely,
PayPal Acceptable Use Policy Department
PayPal, an eBay Company
After a followup inquiry asking for details, I was sent this:We regret to inform you that we cannot overturn the limitation on your
account. Due to the violation of PayPals Acceptable Use Policy regarding
Gambling, your account has been permanently closed.
The violating transactions are:
Transaction ID 2M841361P5243773S on July 10th 2006 and
Transaction ID 0JJ07958P6174721U on June 22nd 2006
If you have any questions, please contact the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy
Department at aup@paypal.com.
As I mentioned above, my records are at home, so I can't check on those specific payments. Meanwhile, my account is totally locked out, so I'm pretty much stuck.
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| 14 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 13:23
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It appears that Amazon offers a web site donation service which might be a viable alternative. I remember looking into that once before, but opted for PayPal based on the slightly lower fees and much wider user base.
Amazon Honor System
Again, I'll look into this next week.
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| 15 | boikin
ID: 400291013
Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 13:23
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Your only hope will be to call paypal directly when you get home and then if that fails open a new account.
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| 16 | StLCards
Leader
ID: 31010716
Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 13:28
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Since there is a 60 day period within which you can refund the money to the sender, I would try that route. I realize your account is now locked, but a follow-up email or phone call stating that the payments sent were not in keeping with your policy and that you wish to refund the money to the senders, or something like that, might do the trick. I wonder if the people that sent the payments are also in violation of the policy and will have their accounts locked as well.
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| 17 | youngroman
ID: 43441182
Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 14:42
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Guru - there is also Google Checkout that might do it.
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| 18 | biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 16:03
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That first one is probably me, though I don't recall the exact wording. The fact that they are reading the messages I find a bit troubling, though it's probably perfectly legal.
If you need a statement that this was purely a donation, I'll be happy to write one up.
If I were you, I'd lean towards looking to an alternative to paypal, however.
I have been annoyed with them since they insisted that I link my checking acct. to them, by repeatedly lowering my CC fund limits until it was unusably small (< $10?).
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| 19 | biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 16:10
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This was the content:
Date:
Jun. 22, 2006
Time:
07:41:20 PDT
Status:
Completed
Subject:
donation in mbj's name
Note:
Hey Dave -
This is to satisfy the terms of a bet with Myboyjack on the world cup.
Thanks, and keep up the good work.
They probably just search on "bet" and some other terms, and flag. I don't see how this violates there policy, but they are probably erring on the side of caution, what with the psuedo-moralists in the legislature burping and spitting about gambling these days.
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| 20 | JeffG
ID: 146591911
Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 16:38
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I understand the company's responsibility to do everything in it's power to make sure it's service is being used for only legitimate and legal purposes, but this seems a bit too cautious.
So if two people make a person-to-person wager, and the agreement is the loser will make a token donation via PayPal to a third party, even though the donation recipient had nothing to do with the actual bet, the third party gets their account cancelled.
What would have happened if that donation from the bet instead went to one of PayPals biggest customers like UNICEF?
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| 21 | StLCards
Leader
ID: 31010716
Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 16:42
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Part of their terms for violation is the ability to assess a $500 'fine' as well.
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| 22 | R9
ID: 36251821
Thu, Jul 27, 2006, 21:58
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The 2nd one is probably the donation Twarpy made for me for losing the Suppan/Moyer bet we had going. Not sure what wording he used, but that is a tad creepy that they read every message attached to transactions.
Sounds like WaB has a route you could try. Usually talking to a real person instead of some robot spitting out "refusal message Alpha-2" helps resolve things.
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| 23 | Twarpy
Leader
ID: 386242821
Fri, Jul 28, 2006, 02:01
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Amount: $20.00 USD
Transaction ID: 6S776511RC108824W
Subject: Please Put as R9 Donation
Note:
Roguenine and I had a bet, needless to say I lost so please put this
under his name!
Im so sorry Dave, if I caused trouble like Billiruben, I never intended to cause trouble to this magnitude and would be willing to send paypal a message if it helps.
I was the one who alerted WAB when I saw this thread and I honestly hope he helps, and am sincerely sorry if the wording I used caused you trouble.
If you need me to send anything to paypal clarifying the message attached let me know, I find it ridiculous that a friendly bet in which we are trying to help the site out and not trying to gain monetary means causes this.
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| 24 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Mon, Jul 31, 2006, 21:12
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WAB put me in touch with his Paypal accout rep, who was helpful in running some interference for me, leading to getting the account restored.
In the future, I have been cautioned to prohibit any donations which appear to have resulted from gambling activity. If I receive any donations which reference gambling, or bets, I must refund them within 24 hours or my account will probably be closed again. As such, if you choose to make donations as a consequence of a friendly wager - PLEASE DO NOT MENTION THAT IN THE MESSAGE TRANSMITTED THROUGH PAYPAL!
In the meantime, I have also opened a donation account via Amazon (donating via a credit card), and should have that available as an option shortly, for those of you who might prefer to avoid PayPal.
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| 25 | Myboyjack
Dude
ID: 014826271
Mon, Jul 31, 2006, 21:31
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It's working.
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| 26 | TB
ID: 596542416
Tue, Aug 01, 2006, 16:36
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Looks like it is working for me:
Date:
Aug. 01, 2006
Time:
12:41:20 PDT
Status:
Completed
Subject:
donation from TB
Note:
Hey Dave -
Thanks for the booze and hookers.
(Just kidding....lol)
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| 27 | J
Leader
ID: 049346417
Tue, Aug 01, 2006, 18:55
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lmao...nice :)
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| 28 | Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Tue, Aug 01, 2006, 19:15
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WAB using his Don Corleone-like influence.....classic!
WAB: "paypalllll....do me this favor. I'm the type of man who knows how to return a favor. Or else I'll make you an offer you can't refuse"
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| 29 | deepsnapper
Sustainer
ID: 017103420
Wed, Aug 02, 2006, 13:38
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Rich appears to have done that thing he does so well. Paypal went thru w/o a problem. Nice work "Don WAB".
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| 30 | What about Bob
ID: 4162270
Wed, Aug 09, 2006, 02:06
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Twarpy,
I think you've done enough don't you? What a complete dumbass doing something like that. I'm sure Paypal would love to hear from you, that would be a HUGE help.
Dave,
My Paypal account mgr has instructed me to ask you to please ban or block Twarpy from access to your site as part of their agreement to reinstating your account. Seems like a small price to pay, don't you?
WAB
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| 31 | Twarpy
ID: 225292214
Wed, Aug 09, 2006, 13:49
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Im donating to you right now WAB, inserting a nice thanks for the banned substances, and listing it as a service.
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| 32 | holt
ID: 22726517
Tue, Aug 15, 2006, 15:16
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5 years ago I sold a few pieces of music equipment on ebay for about $1000. before I withdrew the money from paypal I won an ebay auction for a 16-track recorder for $1000. when I went to pay for it from my paypal account I was informed that my account had been frozen and was under investigation. trying to resolve the matter with them was a horrible experience. it took close to two weeks before ebay un-seized MY money. I didn't have another $1k to pay for the auction I had won, and I tried to explain to the guy what had happened. at first he was cool about it, but after a few days of me telling him I didn't have the money yet, he sent me a scalding e-mail and also notified ebay, basically calling me a lying dead-beat.
by the time paypal released MY money the damage had been done. no one was even able to tell me why my account was under investigation. I could only suspect that Paypal was suspending accounts because they didn't actually have the money to cover them. I have no proof to back that up, but their customer service was so poor (almost non-existent) that it seemed to make perfect sense. when it was over I was just happy to have my money in my own hands. there's really nothing I could have done about it if they had just decided to keep it or "fine" me.
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