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Subject: The State of RotoGuru.com Posted by: Guru - [271182215] Wed, Jan 10, 11:31 The past year has been one of significant growth for RotoGuru.com. On a typical day, more than 1000 users now visit the site, taking advantage of the array of statistical reports, the schedule management tools, the sponsored games, and especially the collective wisdom and camaraderie of the message forum. The forum has become the hub of site activity, so much so that the forum was upgraded to a dedicated server in the middle of 2000. Unfortunately, revenues have not kept pace with this growth. The internet advertising business has had a rough recent run, in line with the general fallout of much of the "dot-com" industry. There is a much smaller supply of ad inventory, and rates have declined substantially. RotoGuru.com has not been immune to these trends, experiencing the following difficulties:
The message forum is the focal point of site activity (and expense). To get a better feel for the underlying stats, I did some detailed tracking of forum activity from January 2-5. Here are the stats for an average day during that period:
Advertisers are looking for two results from publishers: 1. A click-through rate that is in line with industry averages (at least in the range of 0.5%-1%), and 2. Clicks from a broad array of users, rather than a heavy concentration of the same users. Currently, RotoGuru.com is delivering neither. There are a couple dozen faithful clickers who are real troopers (22 users averaged at least one click per day), and I sincerely appreciate their efforts and diligence. But for the site's advertising to succeed, I need more activity from the other 95% - the silent majority. Recently, I introduced a new feature at the forum which eliminated the top banner ad on each forum page for the 24 hours after an ad was clicked. For the first two days after this was started (in mid-December), clicking was up substantially, and I thought this might be the answer. But the increase was short lived, and within a week, click rates were back down again. While I will continue to look for ways to improve click rates, I must work within contractual restrictions that significantly limit the incentives and/or encouragement I can provide. Unfortunately, with the shortage in ad sources, the variety of ads in coming weeks is going to be even more limited than in the past few months, and this won't help. But if you want this forum to continue, I need to experience some improvement, not only in the number of clicks, but particularly in the number of clickers. Just to break even financially, I need the average number of daily clicks to triple. This sounds like a major increase - but the resulting click-through rate would still not be above average by industry standards. I am not about to make any precipitous decisions about cutbacks in service. In fact, the forum server has been paid for until next October, and I expect to maintain the forum in its current format at least through end of the baseball season. I will continue to explore alternative advertising sources, and look for other cost-savings opportunities, which may include reducing or eliminating prizes in upcoming sponsored games (Market Madness and Pickoff). I have dedicated more than three years to growing the site, and I hate to see the progress halted by an advertising downturn. But I am also reluctant to commit to running the site for a sustained period at a material financial loss. I'm proud of what I've built here, and I've enjoyed the effort involved. If the internet industry were continuing to operate under the conditions of a year ago, this could be a banner year. But instead, it's time for a reality check. This is not meant to be a doom and gloom message. Hopefully, it is wake up call, to make you aware of the financial realities and necessities of operating a site such as this. Nothing is ultimately free, even though many of us regard it as such. I need a minimal effort from each of you to make this work. With the size of the Gurupie constituency, I don't need a Herculean effort from anyone. Just one click per day from each of you, and the problems go away. And, of course, free game sites also need your support to survive. Bear this in mind if you want to see the continued presence of sites like Small World and Swirve, which also depend mainly on advertising. Finally, some of you have recently observed that I seem to be less active at the site lately. Part of the reason is that I was vacationing over the holidays, and family trumps RotoGuru - at least at this time of year. But part of the reason is that I've been doing a lot of work on reconfiguring my advertising sources and coding (as well as reading rejection letters from prospective ad brokers), so I've been busier than it would appear. This activity will continue for another week or so, at which point I hope to become more visible in the daily flow of the site once again. It is gratifying to have my absence be so widely noted. | ||||||
| 34 | puckprophet ID: 1810352017 Wed, Jan 10, 19:16 | i wouldn't be averse to a yearly subscription fee , but for now i will give you some quality clicks. i appreciate your efforts , and thanks for the wake-up call. | |||||
| 35 | allhair allstars ID: 5398182 Wed, Jan 10, 19:47 |
Mr. President, As usual, well spoken. And I do hope you're mistaken about #24. | |||||
| 36 | philliephan jr. ID: 30425416 Wed, Jan 10, 19:48 |
As they said thanks for the wakue-up call, I just clicked one now | |||||
| 37 | AdMaN ID: 354521018 Wed, Jan 10, 19:49 |
With all the crap that is on the internet today, I find myself getting bored with web pages awfully quick. Rotoguru.com, however, is a huge exception. I have been going to this website practically every day for over a year, and not one day goes by where I am not grateful that this site exists. I dont need some sort of "extra-feature" or anything like that for me to donate money. The wealth and quality of information that I get from this site makes me feel guilty that I am NOT paying for it. Guru, if there is any way I can make some sort of financial donation, please tell me. But for right now, click, click click!!! -AdMaN | |||||
| 38 | Dev ID: 190521019 Wed, Jan 10, 20:22 |
JKP-I hope so too. I agree that this post was in no way a whine for money. In fact it was far from it, IMO. Guru doesn't run this site for himself or just for money. I'm sure he could think of a far better and surer way to make money than depending on people to click ads for his site. Not to mention so of those people think he should be dancing in the streets instead of this. He has a very special talent and is using it to help others. He runs this site because of his love for fantasy sports. The fact that he still runs this site at a loss says a lot about him as a person. How many of you friends have a job devoted solely to helping you follow your passion. For free? While it costs them money? If you know other people that do what Dave is doing for you I'd be surprised. Even more so if they kept going with it even while losing money. From what I have seen Guru do and what he has written it is pretty clear to me he is a very smart guy. He could easily get a job somewhere and make plenty of money but he chooses to spend his time running a site to help other fantasy sport enthusiasts. The fact that he gives up his time to help others is impressive enough. The fact that he is losing money to do so isn't right. It isn't right you could be better off financially sitting on a couch all day! At least then you wouldn't have any responsibilities, complaints, etc. The stuff that Guru has to put up with for running a free site isn't fair to him. I can't really put everything I'm thinking into words. I'm sure what I wrote is disorganized enough. I'm sure many others are thinking the same thing I am. Guru, I'll do my best to click at least one ad a day, hopefully more like 5. If there is any way to institute quietriot0 idea that would be great, assuming it doesn't go against your ad contract. Also if there is any way papaya's program would help without getting you in trouble I'd definitely use it. Although it could produced a really big rise in clicks which could be suspicious. One last thing, If I ever win any of the contests you hold (not that my past performance has shown that I might) I'd be more than happy to donate the money to you. Just don't even bother sending it too me. This goes for as long as your site is running, which is hopefully for many more years. | |||||
| 39 | rockafellerskank ID: 4541221 Wed, Jan 10, 21:40 | click | |||||
| 40 | T-man ID: 394251822 Wed, Jan 10, 22:49 | Wow, thanks for the reminder. This site has totally opened up a new level of fantasy sports enjoyment for me. I certainly hope it works out financially for you, Guru. I'm off to click, and click often! | |||||
| 41 | Carey ID: 61142812 Wed, Jan 10, 23:03 | I don't know how difficult it would be to implement, but some of the free internet dialup isps institute either pop up banners or banner clicking which increase time online. Perhaps you have to click on a banner and get 10 more page hits before you have to check out another ad, or perhaps a certain amount of time. I have always detested ad banners and the such, but for free sites with such great quality as this they are a neccesity. I used to always fathom people paying to advertise on the net and the effectiveness of their ads. I would definately pay to use this site. I was one of the first people to ever even come here, back before this message forum was even a thought. I took a 2-3 year hiatus while I tried to spend less time on the net or computer. It would be nice if you did make this a pay site, that maybe you could institute those who have special abilities in excel (Richard) or database retrieval like run-n-gun and maybe they get vip status. I would also like to see more games featured. (I know this might not influence many.) I for one have played CDM's games in the past and am curious if anyone else here has or has considered posting data from them. I will start clicking on ads from now on. I for one feel this site saves me 5-10 hours a week easily and increases everyone here's team productivity. I personally never considered how much it might even cost to run one of this. Back in the early 90's late 80's my friend ran his own personal isp on his computer. Well sorry for such a lengthy post. Lets get those banner clicks up (and purchases would definately not hurt) and lets get a Rotoguru-cruitment drive going. | |||||
| 42 | Perm Dude ID: 471126619 Wed, Jan 10, 23:32 |
Mr. President, I hope you are wrong, too. My eyes popped when I saw the number, too. If I can chime in: The idea of pop-ups and ad gateways would be an extreme measure, and would surely represent a quality deterioration which should be a last resort. However, I really like OSU Rules' idea about some sort of value-added benefit for subscribers outside the message forum. Reports, beta versions of in-progress statistical tools, and so forth would seem to be something many might be interested in. Indeed, we could probably pool a number of regulars to contribute to such an enterprise (either some seed money, or with articles, programming help, etc). pd | |||||
| 44 | saber34 ID: 28038115 Thu, Jan 11, 06:35 |
Megagurupie, ad-clickin, page readin, message-postin dittos..... *I've never clicked on ads, its sort of a religious thing to me I guess. But for this I'll make an exception. *Hobbiest???? The man retires early to jump into the www-arena hoping to provide a service that he can use in his hobby (fantasy sports) and perhaps have the opportunity to maintain his income with revenues from his site. Begger? I beg to differ... philanthropist may be a better discription. Thank you Guru.... | |||||
| 45 | StLCards ID: 2504849 Thu, Jan 11, 09:11 |
Guru - One question: How long after clicking a site until it counts as a new click? 24 hours or next calender day? I clicked yesterday afternoon and have your "thank you..." banner displayed. Should I wait or should I click? Also, would I be correct to assume that clicking from home and work would count as two separate clicks for you? OK, so that is more than 1 question. | |||||
| 46 | Guru ID: 271182215 Thu, Jan 11, 11:44 |
Thanks for all of your words of encouragement, and for your ideas. Some are ideas that I've been considering as well, but I want some time to make a well-considered decision, especially when finances are involved. Keep your ideas coming. StL - I don't know the precise answer to your 24-hour timing question, and it could even vary from advertiser to advertiser. Supposedly, it is a 24-hour window, but it is possible that some advertisers might monitor this on a date basis. The best approach is to try to choose a variety of underlying advertisers over a period of days. Advertisers generally measure unique visitors by either a cookie ID or an IP address. My primary broker, ValueClick, uses IP address. So if you are clicking from a different IP address, it counts as a different source. For those of you with fixed connections (T1 line, cable modem, etc.), your IP address is probably fixed. For those who use dial-up ISPs, the IP address probably varies from session to session. When you connect to the service, it assigns you to an IP address for that session. But most popular services will have several IP addresses available, so your address may change from session to session. And, if there are others accessing the site from the same service, they might even be overlapping your effort. However, I don't think this is a big issue, since my independent counts tend to track the advertiser's counts reasonably well. So if you are using different computers, but dialing into the same ISP, you may or may not be identified as a separate user. But if you are accessing the internet via separate sources, then your accesses should be totally unrelated. | |||||
| 47 | KrazyKoalaBears ID: 431156218 Thu, Jan 11, 13:22 |
Let me clear something up! Whoever posted under the name "Android's Dungeon Gu", is completely offline from my thoughts and I'm not sure how the ID's ended up being the same. After looking at the name, I'm assuming it's the same problem that Adam's G-Men had because of having an apostrophe (') in their name. All I know is that I haven't posted to this message until now under any aliases whatsoever. Anyhow, thanks to StLCards for emailing me and pointing this out, because that post was NOT made by me. | |||||
| 48 | The Leading Edge ID: 47012911 Thu, Jan 11, 13:44 |
click, click, clicking Sorry Guru | |||||
| 49 | KrazyKoalaBears ID: 431156218 Thu, Jan 11, 14:03 |
After further investigation, I have to ask a lot of you what you were thinking when you thought I had posted Msg #24. After doing a search for the suspect ID#, it turns out that the ID# in question hasn't been associated with my name since Oct 11. Not only that, but further investigation shows that in a single thread (containing the suspect ID#), I had 4 ID#'s associated with my name over the course of 10 days in a single thread. Now I'm not saying I don't make a nice living, but I can tell you right now that between work and home, I only have usage of 2 computers (I technically have access to more, but work doesn't allow it and my fiancee won't let me near her computer). I know that topics such as the one brought up by Dave stir up emotions and the short-sightedness and ignorance of post #24 only heighten that, but let's be a little slower to judge based on an ID# generated by a computer. I mean, these are computers we're talking about. And don't forget that my friend and I run Gleem.com, so I think I have a bit more of a firm grasp on the realities of the internet than whoever the joker is that spewed forth that garbage. | |||||
| 50 | KevinL ID: 461147813 Thu, Jan 11, 14:13 |
KKB, doing the search I find 3 threads on the Hockey board. (Still all 3 months old). I did question it, based on the Gleem.com site, I even went there today to check the use of banners, noticed the store stuff . . . bit my toungue. I believe it's not you, and am glad. | |||||
| 51 | costanza ID: 580161114 Thu, Jan 11, 14:16 |
Quick question. If I reject cookies associated with clicks, does that negate the effect of the click? Doing my best to click, click, click. Thanks for the reminder, but more importantly, thanks for all you do at this site. | |||||
| 52 | Perm Dude ID: 28059111 Thu, Jan 11, 14:44 |
Thanks for the clarification, KKB. I think the reason people we're coming out and even saying you were the author is that your reputation on this board is solid. pd | |||||
| 53 | Makisupa ID: 201091 Thu, Jan 11, 14:46 |
KKB, I too sorted through many, many ID's last night, and found that over time a number of them have been associated with you. I found the same thing that you did. You've had a few ID's (5311571721 and 431156218 for example... still had the research paper lying around ;-) assigned to your KKB handle recently. Nowhere lately does the number in question appear to be attached to you (249571011). This brings me to ask about the ID's themselves. Why would they be re-issued in the first place? Why are they not thrown out when replaced (or as I say "When I lose my cookies") by a new ID? Also, could a login procedure secure ID's, thus preventing these kinds of mishaps? Is a login too difficult to make work? I am just thinking that if you had to register with Dave, and login before using this site, it would be more secure. This could also allow Dave to "sell" this info to an ad agency. We all get spam, (oops, read that as ad-mail) every day as it is. Why should it come from dumb companies that we don't even know or care about? At least, in this case, it would be supporting RotoGuru.com. I am *so* glad that this was not you in post #24. It didn't seem feasible that it would be, what with your Gleem.com effort and all. Also, kudos for standing up for yourself here, I am sure you have put the minds and hearts of many at ease. I asked this question earlier, but what does it cost to run RotoGuru? Or Gleem.com for that matter. I don't even own my own computer, so I really and honestly have no clue. Maybe if people were aware they wouldn't be so callous towards these ads. I would really appreciate a reply either via e-mail, or here in this forum. Now if we could only hunt down the fool who posted that tripe..... | |||||
| 54 | louky ID: 8451310 Thu, Jan 11, 14:53 |
Didn't look like your style KKB, sorry, didn't think to e-mail you though, glad it was cleared up. While I'm not the most consistant clicker, I was very happy to see the "Thank you for supporting the sponsers of RotoGuru" banner flying proudly when I first read Guru's thread yesterday. That has been an effective way to remind me that I needed to click. I don't know if it would be in violation of your rules Guru, but given the number crunching nature of the typical gurupie, it would be great if we had some way of knowing if the click rate is heading in the right direction. | |||||
| 55 | KrazyKoalaBears ID: 431156218 Thu, Jan 11, 15:34 |
Makisupa, re: Running a website. I'm not sure what the costs are to Dave, but my friend and I are in a different situation. We run Gleem.com in our spare time and develop the tools in our spare time. A lot of the stuff you see was created while learning what was used to make the tool. This means that running into an error or a broken script at Gleem.com would not be out of the ordinary since a lot of it is brand new to us as well. I can tell you that if we were to put in the time and effort that Gleem.com should have, it would take quite a bit of money to be profitable. The number one thing you have to remember about running a website, or business, is that the owner needs a paycheck. If their job is the website, where else are they getting money from? My friend and I have the luxury of having fulltime jobs the further luxury of only having to work 4 days a week. If you haven't noticed, you'll see that most updates/new tools appear on FRI/SAT/SUN, though more on FRI because we both like to have a bit of a life on the weekend. ;) We also have the added bonus of being webpage designers, so what we do at Gleem.com any other time (like on work time) is much like anyone else at any other job doing research and testing related to their job roles. My friend and I don't make any money off of Gleem.com right now and, to be perfectly honest, don't see it happening in the near future. We're not even sure we want Gleem.com to grow to those kinds of proportions anyhow. The reasoning is that we both get easily bored. We don't like to sit and work on one website all the time. If we ran Gleem.com all the time (as a fulltime job), you would probably see the look, layout, and navigation change every other week because we would be bored out of our noggins. The point? I'm not sure there is one other than to say that it takes money to run a website. Just ask any of the dot-coms going out of business on a daily basis. I think Dave's request to click banners is well within reason and I would expect nothing less of the people using this site for their benefit. | |||||
| 56 | Guru ID: 271182215 Thu, Jan 11, 16:53 |
KKB - I was sure that wasn't you. It probably was a glitch related to the apostrophe problem, which unfortunately resulted in your ID being inadvertantly attached to that persons cookie. The ID itself is assigned in such a way that each one should be unique. (It is based on an algorithm using the date and time.) Is is conceivable that a duplicate could be assigned, but that would be an amazing coincidence. I was also able to verify that the poster's IP address was different than any of KKB's known IPs. Clearly, just an unfortunate glitch - assuming that the person wasn't intentionally borrowing your handle. Case closed. Meanwhile, click rates today are very high - so high, in fact, that I'm a bit alarmed. I hope these are all legitimate clicks. If anyone is using an automated clicking process, please STOP IT NOW! At best, those clicks will be invalidated, and at worst, this could end up getting my account terminated for fraudulent activity. I appreciate the support. But let's keep everything on the up and up. | |||||
| 57 | Baldwin ID: 25440222 Thu, Jan 11, 19:20 |
KKB I never had a moments doubt about your innocence.8] Guru Not only was I attrocious about clicking before but since I got Popup Killer I just gave up clicking. I now see that all I have to do is click on a few ignore-it's. I doubt this will kill me and vow to do better. Frankly I use the site so much I intend to drop a check in the mail as soon as my wife's new business breaks even. I'm pretty sure my guilt and appreciation are as strong as that black hole that sucks away at good intentions. | |||||
| 58 | deepsnapper ID: 5311191421 Thu, Jan 11, 19:25 |
KKB & Guru - Thanks for clearing that up. Having played games with KKB and valuing his forum participation, it was a "very odd posting pattern" to say the least. I apologize for thinking it was you KKB. Click, click, click goes the hive. | |||||
| 59 | StLCards ID: 2504849 Fri, Jan 12, 10:03 |
Guru, I was going to register up with coupons.com but all I can find is a place to enter my zip code. Sounds like a good service, but where do I sign up? | |||||
| 60 | Guru ID: 271182215 Fri, Jan 12, 11:12 |
For Coupons.com, you have to download the free software. I just tried it. When using Netscape, it told me that I must use MSIE 5.0 or higher. When I did that, it told me that "A system upgrade is currently in progress - Please try again later." | |||||
| 61 | James K Polk ID: 29430182 Fri, Jan 12, 20:38 |
KKB -- I'm very glad to find out that it wasn't you who posted that message. I realized that that wasn't the only ID# you've been associated with, and that you hadn't popped up with that one for a while. Which is why I tried to just allude to the correlation; I certainly didn't want to come out and flame someone with only circumstances pointing to a link. Like others have said, it really didn't seem like your style, and like I said in my other post, I've long respected your posts and contributions here. Again, I'm very glad it wasn't you. And if you feel that I've unfairly targeted you or disrespected you otherwise, I truly apologize. | |||||
| 62 | esposo ID: 1211141614 Sat, Jan 13, 17:18 |
click, click, click | |||||
| 63 | Perm Dude ID: 28059111 Mon, Jan 15, 15:02 |
Um, I know this might be a bit silly, but what about selling RotoGuru.com t-shirts/sweatshirts? A hundred or so with your logo and a short phrase? Use 'em as prize incentives, too. pd | |||||
| 64 | ¤ Mario LeMoose ¤ ID: 12081515 Mon, Jan 15, 15:08 |
A short phrase such as Clicka Clicka. Booga Booga ... ? Is that what you had in mind, pd? :-) | |||||
| 65 | KevinL ID: 461147813 Mon, Jan 15, 15:18 | Yeah, and on the back we could list the Top 308 Signs why you might know you're a gurupie, from the StlCards thread . . . or are we up to 309 now, YankeesRule? | |||||
| 66 | Perm Dude ID: 471126619 Mon, Jan 15, 16:55 |
Well, I think this "phrase thing" deserves its own thread! pd | |||||
| 67 | James K Polk ID: 32012715 Mon, Jan 15, 17:00 | I think a T-shirt would be great. I know I'd buy one. | |||||
| 68 | StLCards ID: 300191117 Wed, Jan 17, 12:52 |
Guru, I seem to be a bit confused with the ad clicking. When I refresh the sponsor page I get a new selection of ad banners to choose from. I assume these are the Valueclick ads that you get credit for with a click-through. Yet some of these also seem to be from the ones you get credit for a purchase or a sign-up (shown below the banners). I also don't see any links on the sponsor page to the more constant banners of ebay, BlueNile, eteamz.com and the credit card one. I am now a bit confused which ones are the click-through vs sign-up & buy. Earlier I went to the nabiscoworld site through your banner on the sponsors page, but after I downloaded shockwave (had to close browser) and went back to play the game there was no banner for nabiscoworld on your sponsors page. The ticketmaster banner is elusive as well. Is there a site that I can see all the possible click-throughs you get credit for? is it random from valueclick as shown on your sponsors page? or the embedded ones like the "free membership free gift" one above this message box? Sorry for the confusion, but I want to make sure I am getting you click-through value with my advertiser clicks and not just visiting sites that I have to sign up (which I can only do once) or buy things (which I will do only occasionally). thanks | |||||
| 69 | Guru ID: 330592710 Wed, Jan 17, 13:48 |
On the sponsor page, the top banner is served by ValueClick. I have no control over which banner happens to pop up at any particular time. The valueclick server makes the choice. Valueclick banners are always pay-per-click. Some of the current prominent Valueclick advertisers include BlueNile, MyCiti, TicketMaster, & NabiscoWorld, and these ads could appear on just about any RotoGuru page. But I cannot make them appear on command. It's the luck of the draw. The other banners are also rotating, but come from different sources. The vast majority of these are also pay-per-click, although from time to time I'll include some that are commission or registration based, just to see whether they elicit any response. Some of these are also pay-per-click, so just because you see a sponsor listed at the bottom doesn't necessarily mean it is not a click-based ad. In fact, for your purposes, assume that all banner ads on that page are click-based. I've removed eBay from that page for now, because they are so far in arrears in payments that I'm not sure I'll ever collect again. I'm continuing to line up additional advertising sources, and hopefully you'll continue to see a supply of fresh ads. In addition, many of the small ad banners near the new message box (at the bottom of all forum pages) are pay-per-click. Most of these will also be rotating on the left or right sides of the sponsor page. | |||||
| 70 | ¤ Mario LeMoose ¤ ID: 29052196 Fri, Jan 19, 06:52 |
Keep getting the message below for each small ad that appears to the left of the RotoGuru logo on the Support a Sponsor page: Error : -Invalid Offer ,Please contact site owner about this! | |||||
| 71 | Guru ID: 330592710 Fri, Jan 19, 09:36 | I'm aware of that problem. It occurs when one of the ad servers is misbehaving. Most of the time it works OK, however. | |||||
| 72 | Punishark ID: 5310142113 Fri, Feb 02, 16:58 | Guru, I was just taking a look at the Forum Registry and noticed an EBay ad. Is that an old leftover or did they pay their bill and are now back in your good graces? | |||||
| 73 | Guru ID: 330592710 Sat, Feb 03, 08:23 |
Old leftover. By the way, while clicking is still much better than before my "State of" message, it has been steadily declining, both in number and click rate. Most days this past week had a click rate of only 0.4% (only 4 ads were clicked per 1000 exposed). Even Friday (Click day) was only barely .5%, which is generally considered the minimum acceptable rate. About 10 days ago I was getting roughly 400 clicks per day. Now it is in the mid 200s, and the trend is gradually downward. Total traffic volume has been pretty steady throughout. I appreciate those of you who have been persistent - and I know there are many of you in that category. I hope more of you can get in the habit, so that I can get a decent sustained rate without having to continually raise the issue. | |||||
| 74 | StLCards ID: 3505622 Sat, Feb 03, 12:21 |
400 ad-clicks in one day doesn't sound like many at all. I can't believe gurupies can't even sustain such a meager level. I still think you need a banner that is updated throughout the day showing a graph of clicks and a "target" to shoot for (5% rate or something). It would be then a challenge to keep the rate above that line. I guess that is probably not possible, but some kind of visual stimulus monitoring click-through-rate would help IMO. As far as click through rate goes, does Value-click rotate a set number of banner ads per day and monitor the number of times it is clicked on from a site? I am assuming it is not related to how many pages I view vs how many times I click is it? If that were true it would be tough to have a high click-through rate if there are alot of constant users,(moving back and forth between forums) and there are only a fixed number of banners they could click on (since you can't click the same sponsor twice in a day). | |||||
| 75 | allhair allstars ID: 37059277 Sat, Feb 03, 13:12 | FWIW, I wasn't too sure it the "Click-a-thon" thing was completely kosher, but since I interpret that it is, I'll be sure to whoop it up a little more. I'd been laying a little low on promoting it... | |||||
| 76 | Makisupa ID: 20481514 Sat, Feb 03, 13:59 |
I have feared that "click" rates are down. Don't worry Dave, I am always clickin' for you!! I noticed that participants in the "Click-an-ad-Friday" promo have been dwindling. This sucks! Talk about ungrateful people! There are a lot of people putting time and effort into RotoGuru, not to mention Guru's wallet commitment. I think the least gurupies could do is click an ad! LAZY! Personally I liked J's idea to withhold standings in lieu of clicking. I am all for that. It really annoys and frustrates me that the Guru has to remind people to click. About three days before this thread was started, I had been wondering about how clicking was going. It had been just over a month (12/06) since the Guru had introduced the "Thank you for supporting the sponsors of RotoGuru.com" banner (which I already consider a form of spoon feeding!), as a "carrot" to click. With this thread, Guru answered my question for me, clicking was not going well. What gives folks!?!? This is not hard to do. Click-click-click. If you haven't signed up for any spam, do so now! Click right now! Enough raving. I really like StlCards idea for a graphical representation of click through rates. I have no idea whether this is appropriate or feasible, but it seems that it would do well. Personally, I don't think that Dave should have to remind everyone to click for the site in one month intervals. It is pathetic and selfish to use RotoGuru.com and nt support it. Aside from fascism, I have no ideas how to change things. Personally, I would publically post "click" stats, which would include exactly who is clicking and who isn't (it seems though that only a few are clicking, so the non-clickers list would be quite long.) I visit RotoGuru anywhere between 3-15 times a day. I probably click on four or five ads a day. The first thing I do is click the opening banner ad on the RotoGuru font page, no matter what it is. This is not difficult, or time consuming to do, so get with it people. Thanks for the forum to vent. I'll see you on the "sponsors" page, Daniel | |||||
| 77 | esposo ID: 52453011 Mon, Feb 05, 12:03 |
click click click click click click looks like I just hit 6 different ads | |||||
| 78 | ProudestMonkey ID: 139442210 Tue, Feb 06, 22:12 | I'm usually just a lurker, but I just wanted to say thanks for running such a great site! I'm going to try to make it a habit to click an ad every day. In fact, I just started by signing up on ClassReunionSearch.com | |||||
| 79 | What about Bob ID: 35129618 Wed, Feb 07, 01:09 | I also like "STLCARDS" idea, especially since we are a competitive group of people in the first place. I too am unsure of the ethics involved, but certainly Ebay getting FREE advertising from Guru isn't too ethical either. Kinda draws an analogy to all the people that use rotoguru.com without ad-clicking:-( Sorry if that hit anyone(dumbasses) too close to home. | |||||
| 80 | Guru ID: 330592710 Wed, Feb 07, 10:14 |
(also posted in the Hoops forum) Here's a daily chart of click-through rates since the beginning of January. A rate of 0.50% means that 1 out of every 200 ads is clicked, and is generally considered the low end of the acceptable range. Message boards are fairly notorious for low click-through rates, I believe, so I've generally set this level as my target.  As you can see, prior to my discussion on 1/10, the rate was quite dismal. Although on the surface it may appear to have maintained a fairly steady rate, we've been hovering at or below the .50% line for about 10 days now, and I suspect the slight uptick 5 days ago was due to my comments in the forum developments area. If we can keep this at the .50% level (or better), I should be able to stay marginally profitable with the status quo, although I think my bandwidth costs are going to go up moderately this spring. But this level of revenue at least gives me the optimism to plunge ahead. The ultimate wildcard, however, is the general state of web advertising. If rates decline further, or supply disappears, that could spell trouble for a lot of free, advertising driven sites. | |||||
| 81 | JeffG ID: 40451227 Wed, Feb 07, 10:55 |
Dumb question: If I surf the forum on and off the afternoon, perhaps 25-50 page views, but only click 5 ads or so a day, am I hurting the click rate by viewing so many pages? | |||||
| 82 | ksoze ID: 001731 Thu, Feb 08, 23:56 |
JeffG, Don't worry, I think that you're more than doing your part to help. There are, what, two ads per page? Only one after you click the banner on the top? Even at two per page, if you view 50 pages then you're clicking at a 5 per 100 rate or 1 in 20, and Guru says that 1 in 200 is the low end of acceptible. If, once that top banner is gone, it's only counted as one ad per page then the rate is even better. In any case, you'd have to view at least 10 times as many pages on only 5 clicks before you're at the low end of acceptible, and even then you'd be helping. Gotta go click now... | |||||
| 83 | biliruben ID: 3587722 Sat, Feb 10, 18:09 |
Hey Guru - do you have any numbers by forum? We could start a competition, as long as we are living in this artificial construct. A more basic question: Do you really think that advertisers derive enough benefit (read: revenue) from advertising on this site to support it? In other words, if advertisers were able to exactly quantify who much their revenues are increased through there advertising here, do you think it would it be less than, equal to, or greater than your costs of running this site? If less than, do you think free forums such as this have a very limited future? Hard questions (in more than one way), I know. | |||||
| 84 | devils1 ID: 20010821 Sun, Feb 25, 10:46 | Dave, I made a $32 purchase at batteries.com thru your site today. Please let me know if you need my order number or anything to confirm your credit. Keep up the great work! | |||||
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