| RotoGuru Football Forum View the Forum Registry XML Get RSS Feed for this thread | Self-edit this thread |
|
| 0 |
Subject: Clarett to use NFL rule against league Posted by: Tree, not at home - [4311301222] Fri, Dec 12, 2003, 23:33 i definitely find this fascinating - that being that all this time we'd thought the wording was something completely different then it really was... In papers filed Friday with the U.S. District Court in New York, attorneys for Clarett state that the NFL has been misleading the public, as well as Clarett, about the actual language of the league bylaw that prohibits early entry to many college players. When the rule was adopted in February 1990, NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue issued a press release saying players could enter the draft only after "three full college seasons" had elapsed since their high school graduation. Over the past decade, the notion that players must wait three years has become widely accepted. However, as noted by Clarett's attorneys, the formal language of Section 12.1(E) of the bylaws is: "For college football players seeking special eligibility, at least three NFL seasons must have elapsed since the player was graduated from high school." | |||||||
| 78 | holt ID: 22726517 Wed, Aug 09, 2006, 17:50 | yeah, with the vest, multiple loaded weapons within reach, pending charges of armed robbery, running from the cops and then fighting them... I can't imagine any judge going lightly on him. | ||||||
| 79 | barilko6 ID: 16529229 Wed, Aug 09, 2006, 18:04 |
re 76 Sarge you missed part of it out before handing down your sentence: "Police also charged him with weaving in and out of lanes on a road before he entered the highway" | ||||||
| 80 | sarge33rd ID: 575352217 Wed, Aug 09, 2006, 18:29 |
make it 31 years then. :) Claretts mentor? | ||||||
| 81 | Species Leader ID: 07724916 Wed, Aug 09, 2006, 18:30 |
Re: #70 Adding to that excellent point...... ......and Clarett is a poster boy for the NCAA system that rewards (mostly illegally), pampers, babies and sets on a pedastal star athletes without any intention of educating them or preparing them for life after NCAA sports. So many hundreds of young men (mainly - I'm sure it happens on occasion to women) have been used like meat by their schools only to be tossed away when their usefullness is used up (via injury or otherwise). I wonder what Lawrence Phillips is doing for a living these days... | ||||||
| 82 | sarge33rd ID: 575352217 Wed, Aug 09, 2006, 18:34 | I dont blame the college. By the time the character gets there, his ways have been largely set. It would take one incredibly gifted leader of young men, to turn around a Clarett who comes to you at 18-19 and having been treated as special by every school coach, administrator and teacher so far encountered in their lives. | ||||||
| 83 | GoatLocker Sustainer ID: 060151121 Wed, Aug 09, 2006, 18:37 |
Last I remember seeing on Phillips was being arrested again. In LA Cliff | ||||||
| 84 | biliruben Leader ID: 589301110 Wed, Aug 09, 2006, 18:37 |
Charged with carrying a concealed weapon? He wasn't carrying any of them, and they don't look concealed to me. Maybe reckless driving, and not having a permit, but the concealed weapons charge doesn't seem likely to stick. That said, I don't know danky about the law, and perhaps Ohio defines "concealed" and "carrying" in some manner completely inconsistent with the english language. Wouldn't be the first time. | ||||||
| 85 | sarge33rd ID: 575352217 Wed, Aug 09, 2006, 18:38 |
I wonder what Lawrence Phillips is doing for a living these days... see post 80 | ||||||
| 86 | GoatLocker Sustainer ID: 060151121 Wed, Aug 09, 2006, 18:40 |
Didn't see sarge's link in 80. So the link is in 83 also. Cliff | ||||||
| 87 | Species Leader ID: 07724916 Wed, Aug 09, 2006, 18:55 |
sarge 82 - a valid point in that you can't take a Clarett and turn him into a Boy Scout. But the universities are still guilty of perpetuating the issue, and making it worse as the stakes get raised so much higher. I guess making that point in a case like Clarett is bad timing. Plenty of decent kids who aren't idiots like Clarett still get abused and passed through by the universities for the benefit of the university instead of the "student athlete". | ||||||
| 88 | sarge33rd ID: 575352217 Wed, Aug 09, 2006, 18:59 |
a contention I wont for a moment argue against. Ever since colleges became businesses vs educational institutions, it was an inevitable migration away from scholastics and toward revenue generation. Scenario: University football coach graduates 90% of his squad every year and 90% of those men have 3.5+ GPA's. College football team record is .500 and no Bowl appearances in the coaches 5 yr tenure. Another coach in the same conference, same tenure...graduates 10% of his sqaud every year and none carry GPAs over 2.5. 5 bowl appearances in the 5 years though. Which coach gets fired and which gets a 7 figure contract? THERE is the real problem. | ||||||
| 89 | Myboyjack Dude ID: 014826271 Wed, Aug 09, 2006, 22:46 |
bili - Why do you think all those good ole boys have guns racks in their trucks? I'm pretty sure you can't drive around with pistols in your driver side seat in Ohio, but I don't know. The most serious of the charges Clarett has from his lastest escapade would appear to be the fleeing and evading (unless he winds up with a Federal gun charge of some kind.) This isn't nearly as serious has his previous robbery charge, anway. He's been complaning of death threats lately (He owes a lot of people money who don't collect through an agency) - I'd guess that and his obvious mental instabilty explains the armor and guns (but not the Grey Goose) I think it's ugly the way the media seems to revel in this screwed up guys messed up life. Wearing the vest, IMHO, shows intent. Intent to what? Not be shot dead? | ||||||
| 90 | Motley Crue ID: 2192327 Wed, Aug 09, 2006, 23:15 |
MBJ, you missed the audition for Clarett's Public Defender; he already has one assigned. Get out your highball glass and pull up a chair. I'll pour you a Grey Goose and we can watch this poor bastard get flushed down the toilet. Cheers. | ||||||
| 91 | sarge33rd ID: 76442923 Thu, Aug 10, 2006, 00:56 |
C'mon MBJ...get real. 1)Guy is up on charges for armed robbery. 2)He gets caught, with a loaded, 30rd clip, assault rifle and multiple loaded semi-automatic handguns within reach and access while driving. (I cant speak for the "good ole boy" states, but in Iowa where I spent most of my life, its illegal to transport loaded weapons within reach of the driver. Unless said driver, has a permit to carry concealed weapons. (The weapons are copncealed to view by passersby on the road when they are on the passengar seat. That may well be where the concealed weapons charge originates.) 3) Not only is he carrying multiple weapons illegaly, but he is wearing combat armor while doing so. Intent to do what? Get into a gun battle. Commit greivous bodily harm upon someone. Intent to commit murder, to commit assault with a deadly weapon. | ||||||
| 92 | GoatLocker Sustainer ID: 060151121 Thu, Aug 10, 2006, 01:18 |
Better yet, one of the loaded pistols was under is leg on the drivers seat. If that's not concealed, nothing is. The cops are chasing you and you hve a weapon under your leg. Sounds like a death wish to me. Cliff | ||||||
| 93 | barilko6 ID: 16529229 Thu, Aug 10, 2006, 08:49 |
Interesting sidenote that just surfaced regarding why Clarett was on his rampage: "Assistant Franklin County Prosecutor Tim Mitchell asked a judge Wednesday to keep Clarett in jail and revoke his bond on the robbery charges, given that Clarett was arrested close to the home of Tywona Douglas, one of the people who identified him in the alley behind the bar. (Douglas is a witness in the initial criminal proceeding that Clarett is involved in.)" | ||||||
| 94 | Motley Crue Dude ID: 439372011 Thu, Aug 10, 2006, 11:34 |
Wilbon on Clarett Even as someone who was not in favor of the NFL changing its rules to allow Clarett in early, I sit at the keyboard now wondering what might have become of Clarett had he spent the last three years within the structure of a football team, which is probably the only structure he had ever known -- certainly the only one he ever appreciated. It's impossible to not wonder what might have happened had Clarett been good enough to stick with the Denver Broncos, who brought him to camp last summer. I like Wilbon's writing. I get the feeling he is sort of at a loss for words about Maurice Clarett, which makes his column impressive. Since, you know, there are about 1000 words there. | ||||||
| 95 | FRICK ID: 345202714 Thu, Aug 10, 2006, 11:42 |
Re:93 On the Mike and Mike show on ESPN this morning they were saying close to the witness's house as being within 1 block. He got the cops attention for making an illegal u-turn. As they stated, that might have been a great thing the cop was there or how ugly could this situatin be now. Sidenote: Do you think LeBron still takes Clarett's calls? | ||||||
| 96 | wolfer ID: 575582311 Thu, Aug 10, 2006, 11:54 | He tried calling LeBron on Tuesday... | ||||||
| 97 | barilko6 ID: 30728108 Thu, Aug 10, 2006, 14:45 | That is one messed up story... | ||||||
| 98 | Balrog Dude ID: 02856618 Thu, Aug 10, 2006, 15:23 |
Re: 94 I don't know if the national press picked it up, but the Broncos Mike Shanahan was all over the local news saying how he never saw anyone that the veterans on the Broncos tried so hard to help straighten out and yet Clarett refused every attempt. Shanahan said that's a big part of why he was cut. Maybe it would have been a different story if he went straight into the NFL from OSU, but it looks like he already had the attitude when he got kicked off the college team. | ||||||
| 99 | Perm Dude ID: 2073108 Thu, Aug 10, 2006, 16:06 | That's why he was kicked off the team. I suspect that if he had stuck it out a little more his maturity level would be much higher. | ||||||
| 100 | Myboyjack Dude ID: 014826271 Thu, Aug 10, 2006, 18:55 |
Intent to do what? Get into a gun battle. Commit greivous bodily harm upon someone. Intent to commit murder, to commit assault with a deadly weapon You're not being serious. Sorry, I didn't get that before. Wearing body armor and having a gun, by themselves, won't get him convicted of anything. We don't get to prosecute people based on what we think they may have been thinking about doing. Now, if had some notes laying around.... There no such thing as a "wearing body armor with intent to..." crime anyway. | ||||||
| 101 | sarge33rd ID: 575352217 Thu, Aug 10, 2006, 19:00 |
We don't get to prosecute people based on what we think they may have been thinking about doing. We dont? Possession with intent to distribute for ex? | ||||||
| 102 | Myboyjack Dude ID: 014826271 Thu, Aug 10, 2006, 19:07 |
We dont? Possession with intent to distribute for ex? Who is using their imagination, sarge, in that example? Trafficking is sometimes stautorily defined as possession of over "X" oz. of whatever ubstance. It's black and white - not someone's best guess. Maybe you should refer me to the "wearing body armor with intent to ?" statute you are referring to. If it doesn't exist, then what are you talking about that Clarett should be charged with, that he hasn't already been? | ||||||
| 103 | Myboyjack Dude ID: 014826271 Thu, Aug 10, 2006, 19:12 |
Clarett's bond has been set at $5 mil because, the Judge says, "he fled police" Like I said in post you took exception to,sarge, fleeing and evading is the most serious thing he'll be charged with in this incident (unless there are Federeal weopons charges or more facts materialize) Fleeing and Evading is good for 1-5 years in KY | ||||||
| 104 | Toral ID: 52621719 Thu, Aug 10, 2006, 19:16 |
We're seeing people talking at cross-purposes about different things. Wearing a bulletproof vest can't be cited as evidence of criminal intent. It sure is common-sense evidence of 'intent' to be in a place where trouble is going on though -- and being that Clarett was driving as opposed to being chased by troublemakers, it suggests an evil intent, in common-sense terms. Unless you believe that people put on the bulletproof vest and load up with weapons just for a scenic drive around the town. Toral | ||||||
| 105 | Myboyjack Dude ID: 014826271 Thu, Aug 10, 2006, 19:23 |
Wearing a bulletproof vest can't be cited as evidence of criminal intent No. Wearing the vest could be evidence of intent to do something or another criminal, Toral, if there is some other crime he is being charged with. The problem is there no underlying crime to charge him with. sarge wants him charged with "intent to engage in a gun battle" or something. The fact that he was wearing a vest and had some guns, alone, is not going to get him charged with intending to engage in another crime. | ||||||
| 106 | biliruben Leader ID: 589301110 Thu, Aug 10, 2006, 19:28 |
So can I or can't I walk or drive around with an unconcealed weapon anymore? Do I have to keep my winchester locked in the trunk these days? | ||||||
| 107 | Toral ID: 52621719 Thu, Aug 10, 2006, 19:29 |
Prosecutorial logic-chopping in a forum that isn't a criminal law forum. I should have said "Wearing a bulletproof vest in itself can't be cited as evidence of criminal intent." I know, it's hard to give up arguing with sarge forever. Toral | ||||||
| 108 | Myboyjack Dude ID: 014826271 Thu, Aug 10, 2006, 19:31 |
gun rack. Each state is different as to where you can have a hand gun. In KY it's legal (and not concealed) to drive around with a gun in your glove compartment. In Ohio that would be considered "concealed" There is no where I know of that you can drive with a gun in your seat or under it. | ||||||
| 109 | biliruben Leader ID: 589301110 Thu, Aug 10, 2006, 19:33 |
A quick google gets me here. I think I'd be okay in Indiana: Gaddis v. State, 680 N.E.2d 860 (Ind.App. 1997) In this case the Indiana court of appeals reverses a conviction for intimidation under Indiana law, based on the defendant's having displayed, without pointing it at anyone, a handgun after a confrontation in highway traffic. The court notes that intimidation requires a threat, and the mere display of an otherwise lawfully carried handgun is not a threat. The court notes that to the extent the law might mean that, it would violate the constitutional right to keep and bear arms, and thus they will interpret it not to prohibit constitutionally protected conduct, so as to preserve it. | ||||||
| 110 | biliruben Leader ID: 589301110 Thu, Aug 10, 2006, 19:41 | I think it would be pretty amusing mounting a gun rack in my Civic! Almost tempting enough to risk the wrath of my gun-fearing wife. | ||||||
| 111 | Myboyjack Dude ID: 014826271 Thu, Aug 10, 2006, 19:41 |
Toral - It's not logic chopping. It really is two different things. There are some acts that carry an absolute criminal liabilty because of how they are defined by the legislature - criminal intent is supplied because the actor's state of being gives him a certain defined status Sarge understands that concept because he cited one - Trafficking (defined as possession of > X oz..... He's just wrong in implying that wearing a vest and carrying a gun is similar (unless he knows if a statute I don't.) Now, if there was evidence, say, that suggested that Clarrett had conspired with LeBron to knock somebody off that night, then sure, the vest and the guns could be evidence of that conspiracy and certain elements of it. | ||||||
| 112 | Toral ID: 52621719 Thu, Aug 10, 2006, 20:01 |
How is 111 different from what I said in 104: Wearing a bulletproof vest can't be cited as evidence of criminal intent. I.e., there is no absolute presumption. Toral | ||||||
| 113 | Myboyjack Dude ID: 014826271 Thu, Aug 10, 2006, 20:20 |
Toral - Look at sarge's attempted analogous crime - "Possesion with intent to traffic" That's a crime wherein intent is presumed by possesion. Possession is not just evidence of intent - basically, it is intent. Now, you said: "Wearing a bulletproof vest in itself can't be cited as evidence of criminal intent." That's not really right. Wearing the vest can be cited, even by itself, (although it wouldn't make much of a case), of a conspiracy or Attempt. Where I differed with sarge was when he tried to say that wearing the vest was evidence of some "Possession with intent.." crime that doesn't exist. "Attempt to murder" is a crime - "intended murder" is not, if that helps. | ||||||
| 114 | GoatLocker Sustainer ID: 060151121 Thu, Aug 10, 2006, 22:46 |
The fact that he was stopped within a block of the woman who was about to testify against him really throws a slant to this. The rest is just crazy and doesn't make a lot of sense. The gut tells you that wearing the vest means he is up to no good, but nothing can be proved by it. Cliff | ||||||
| 115 | holt ID: 074720 Thu, Aug 10, 2006, 23:25 |
has he ever been convicted of a felony? pretty sure that it's illegal for a felon to be in possession of a bf-vest. I also don't think those weapons were registered to him, since one of the stories refers to the feds trying to determine where the guns came from. Woods said he did not know where Clarett got the guns or why he had them, and that federal authorities plan to trace their ownership. i'm no expert by any means, but it seems to me that fleeing and evading are the least of his worries. | ||||||
| 116 | Tree ID: 377561717 Thu, Aug 17, 2006, 21:29 |
According to ESPN, Maurice Clarett has ties to an alleged member of an Israeli crime organization, and might have been in possession of firearms last week to protect himself against mob activity. and israeli crime organization!?!? wtf? | ||||||
| 117 | rockafellerskank ID: 49136120 Mon, Sep 18, 2006, 20:01 | 3+ years for plea deal | ||||||
| 118 | sarge33rd ID: 76442923 Mon, Sep 18, 2006, 22:43 |
lol gotta like that link Tree: Maurice Clarett will at least serve 3.5 years in prison after agreeing to a plea bargain Monday. This will probably be our last Clarett post for a while unless we can find enough stats to set up a Ohio Correctional Facilities fantasy league. Thanks for the memories Mo. *waves bye to MC* | ||||||
| 119 | Tree ID: 568511818 Mon, Sep 18, 2006, 22:53 | for all that we joke about it, it's really a sad, sad story. | ||||||
| 120 | Perm Dude ID: 55855188 Mon, Sep 18, 2006, 23:15 | Maybe he'll be added to the Failures Collection | ||||||
| 121 | sarge33rd ID: 76442923 Mon, Sep 18, 2006, 23:38 | I'd agree Tree, and I'd feel badly for him....if he werent such a total jackass. | ||||||
| 122 | KrazyKoalaBears ID: 15023167 Tue, Sep 19, 2006, 08:28 |
I'd have to say Clarett looked pretty happy about going to jail in the footage I saw. He walked into the courtroom with a big smile on his face and even seemed okay with his sentencing. He has to have been the happiest man facing 3-1/2 years in prison I've ever seen on TV. Maybe it's where he really wants to be. | ||||||
| 123 | sarge33rd ID: 257222410 Tue, Sep 19, 2006, 11:55 | I noticed that too KKB. I dont recall ever seeing anyone so apparently happy, over the prospect of 42 months in the pen. Kind of makes oyu wonder, what he was facing with a conviction sans the plea agreement. | ||||||
| 124 | Perm Dude ID: 56851198 Tue, Sep 19, 2006, 12:14 | Maybe he's about to come out of the closet. | ||||||
| 125 | Myboyjack ID: 8216923 Fri, Mar 30, 2007, 21:39 |
I Know this thread is way stale but for some reason this just cracked me up...
| ||||||
| 126 | sarge33rd ID: 99331714 Sat, Mar 31, 2007, 12:01 | roflmao.....nice post MBJ. Thanks for that one! | ||||||
| 127 | Ref Donor ID: 539581218 Tue, Apr 03, 2007, 17:59 | LOL! | ||||||
| Rate this thread: | If you wish, you may rate this thread on scale of 1-5. Ratings should indicate how valuable or interesting you believe this thread would be to other users of this forum. A '5' means that this thread is a 'must read'. A '1' means that this is a complete waste of time. If you have previously rated this thread, rating it again will delete your previous rating. If you do not want to rate this thread, but want to see how others have rated it, then click the button without entering a rating, or else click here. | |||||||
| ||||||||
Post a reply to this message: (But first, how about checking out this sponsor?) | ||||||||