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Subject: Worst call of all time
Posted by: bibA
- Sustainer [261028117] Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 16:39
Has anyone ever seen a worse call by the refs than the overrulled interception by Palomalo? Ever? |
| 1 | TB
Sherpa
ID: 031811922
Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 16:48
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Yes- Tom Brady Tuck was a fumble.
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| 2 | Myboyjack
Dude
ID: 014826271
Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 16:55
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Actually, i think that's the rule and they got it right. If a player a player falls catching a ball, he must maintain possesion of the ball until he is touched down or untill he gets up, or it's incomplete. Polamalu never got up with possession of the ball: incomplete.
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| 3 | G aka Gmoney
ID: 329361323
Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 16:57
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Tom Brady's tuck fumble is irrelvant because there was a blow to the head that should have coincided with the fumble/incomplete pass. 15 yard penalty and still NE's ball.
That call today was the worst referee call in the instant replay history of the NFL.
The referee had a chance to watch that play as many times as he wanted. I am very surprised that justice was served in the end.
What about the "no call" when Indy felt Faneca moved and the whole D line came across the line of scrimmage. No call???? What the heck is that??
This head ref should by fined and limited in his playoff work for the near future.
Still fired up..............
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| 4 | TB
Sherpa
ID: 031811922
Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 16:59
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There was no blow to the head. I have watched it 18 gazillion times. He was wrapped up and sacked after he already lowered the ball to his waist. FUMBLE
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| 5 | youngroman
ID: 50818914
Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 17:56
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for me the ball hit the ground when he fell down (although his hand was between the ball and the ground). it is not relevant if he fumbled afterwards. the ball was on the ground - incomplete.
they use this rule against receivers and now they have used it against a defender. the main thing is that it depends on the referee how the play is called and thats the problem - they are not consistent enough for this type of decision
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| 6 | bibA
Sustainer
ID: 261028117
Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 17:56
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3 - I thought Polomalu caught the ball, took a few steps, fell without losing possession, and then got up STILL with the ball, and took another step before he kicked it out with his knee. And then recovered his own fumble.
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| 7 | G aka Gmoney
ID: 329361323
Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 19:09
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The ball is allowed to touch the ground if the reciever/defender has control of it. That was changed in the recent past. Troy clearly had complete control of the ball until he tried to get up and knocked the ball out with his knee. Bad, bad call that almost cost a team that dominated the game. Refs should not be that important.
Let's remember that the ruling on the field was interception and there was certainly nothing to OVER TURN that ruling.
That is what makes this call so bad. The ruling was good and everyone watching knows it was good except the one guy who had the authority to gift wrap the game for the Colts.
Still fired up...
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| 8 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 150431518
Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 19:43
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did not complete the "football move"
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| 9 | G aka Gmoney
ID: 329361323
Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 19:47
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If he had been touched before he tried to get up he would have been down by contact. A football move is when a guy is trying to come down with the ball while standing and a defender is on him.
Based on the idea that he would have been down by contact if he wouldn't have got up this is the worst call of all time in instant replay history. Now, back to trying to get the bears to pull this out.
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| 10 | weykool
ID: 58036712
Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 20:26
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I am no expert on all the little football rules.
However, one ruling I have heard is that when you catch the ball on the ground you need to maintain controll until touched down or or until you regain your footing.
If that is the case....again I say if....then the Ref made the right call in overruling the interception.
He caught the ball and rolled over....when he tried to get back to his feet the ball came loose from the knee coming up.
His other knee was still on the ground.
We can rant and rave about how it "looked like he had it long enough" but if we are not 100% sure of the actual rules then we have no basis for our ranting.
Again, I dont know for certain what the rulebook states and my first impression was that it looked like an interception but football does tend to have these quirky rulessee the "tuck rule") that the refs more often than not....get it right.
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| 11 | G aka Gmoney
ID: 329361323
Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 20:57
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Oh surprise surpise weykool disagrees.... go away. I have stayed away from most of the forums because you are like a tick and then you follow me again. Ugh.
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| 12 | Motley Crue
ID: 510111519
Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 21:09
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I have been here a lot in the last year or so, and I haven't seen either of you around here. At all. Maybe you are following weykool, Gmoney?
Either way, the ref and his crew should be fired for that offsides/false start no call.
"Ooooh, let's talk about it and then not call anything."
"Sounds good to me."
"Yeah, Dungy looks pissed. Let's give him a freebie."
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| 13 | G aka Gmoney
ID: 329361323
Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 21:16
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Motley Crue,
Yes I stated that above (the offside/false start). By the way, I have been in the politics forum off and on in the past(a place you live in) and basketball is what brings me to roto guru each year. Hoops is a place you don't visit very often if at all (don't ever remember a hoops post by you but that doesn't mean you don't particpate - expand your horizons) .
If you don't know, sometimes biting your tongue is a decent option ;) Not to mention the fact that I posted several times on this topic above making your comment both foolish and uncharateristic given your political knowledge. Maybe you should stick to that?
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| 14 | Action Figure
ID: 287231610
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 01:30
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I am no expert on all the little football rules.
However, one ruling I have heard is that when you catch the ball on the ground you need to maintain controll until touched down or or until you regain your footing.
Weykool, I agree. I understand that to be the basis for overturning the original call.
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| 15 | Action Figure
ID: 287231610
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 01:38
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My thing is this: The Ref is paid to know the rules. Every rule!! He had ample time to look at many many replays and he actually made the decision to overturn the call. The people that keep complaining that it was a bad call (television people included) flat out do not understand the rule.
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| 16 | Action Figure
ID: 287231610
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 01:42
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"I had the defender catching the ball," Morelli told a pool reporter after the game. "Before he got up, he hit it with his leg with his other leg still on the ground. Therefore, he did not complete the catch. ... He never had possession with his leg up off the ground doing an act common to the game of football."
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| 17 | weykool
ID: 58036712
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 01:53
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G$:
My feeling was exactly the same as yours.
It looked like the Replay official blew the call.
My point is that if the ruling is you have to either be toughed while down or maintain control until you regain your footing then the official got it right.
If you have evidence that that is NOT the rule....then post it.
However, if that is the rule, then I think you would have to agree with me that the Ref got it right.
Again...I dont know the rule one way or another but it seems strange that he would make such a call without such a rule.
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| 18 | Tree
ID: 39019166
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 07:27
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worst call of a all-time? that's quite an overstatement, i'd say...
there are a million "worst calls of all time," it just depends on who our team is...
the ages have actually made me foggy to what i remember being the worst call of all time as a kid, but i vaguely remember it involving either a pass interference call against Benny Barnes that shouldn't have been called, or a pass interference that wasn't called against whoever was defending against Butch Johnson.
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| 19 | G aka Gmoney
ID: 329361323
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 07:27
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Back to the decision by Pete Morelli, I don't care what his explanation will be - that was an interception. You can watch it over and over again and see that Troy clearly had possession. If that was on the sidelines - INT. If a defender would have been on top off him - INT. However, because it happened in the middle of the field with nobody with in 5 yards, it was incomplete? There is no legitimate way that was an incomplete pass! If the NFL has some obscure rule that will support Morelli's call on that play, that rule will be changed in the off season. What a complete disgrace. The NFL should be truly embarrassed that a call/rule could impact such an important game.
Bad officiating follows the Steelers. I think the last rule changing play the Steelers were in was the Turkey Day game in Detroit.
So is there an obscure rule that allows most of the defensive line to be offside on 4th and inches that allowed Morelli to call a do over?
Still fired up.....
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| 20 | KrazyKoalaBears
ID: 15023167
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 08:23
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Personally, I think the "Worst Call of All-Time" should at least be reserved for a call that directly determined the outcome of a game. In that regards, I can think of the NYG @ SFO playoff game from just a few years ago. That, and many more.
Yesterday's was a bad call, but certainly not the "Worst Call of All-Time."
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| 21 | ¤ Mario LeMoose ¤
ID: 340361510
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 09:34
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Vinny Testaverde's December 6, 1998, "touchdown" vs. Seattle
Remember?
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| 22 | G aka Gmoney
ID: 329361323
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 09:50
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RE: 20
Wonder how Vanderjaat feels about that. This guy, one of the most accurate of all time, will now be forever remembered as the goat of Indy for a missed kick he realistically never should have had the opportunity to attempt.
Nice to know that the Steelers survived the worst call in instant replay history and that the defense (after the initial shock) recovered to shutdown what I have hear ESPN say is the best offense of all time.
What a game.
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| 23 | weykool
ID: 58036712
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 09:55
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sorry G...you cant have it both ways.
If you are going to criticize the Ref for the "no call" offsides then you cant fault the ref for an obscure rule that he got right.
You are asking him to know the rule.....and ignore it and give the ball to Pitt because it "looked like" an interception.
IF....and I say IF (still not sure what the rule is) the ruling is you need to regain both feet then obviously it would have to be the "best call ever".
If you disagree with the rule and think it should be changed....fine....but dont say it was the worst call when the rules are being applied correctly.
As far as the worst call ever I recall a game at the college level where a team was 1st and goal.
The completed a pass and spiked the ball. They completed a pass on 3rd down and spiked the ball again.
On 5th down they threw a touchdown pass to win the game.
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| 24 | G aka Gmoney
ID: 329361323
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 10:36
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zzz
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| 25 | G aka Gmoney
ID: 329361323
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 11:03
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Here is the firwt quote on the play I have found from Morelli:
Referee Pete Morelli had a different view of things.
"I had the defender catching the ball," Morelli said in a statement. "Before he got up, he hit it with his leg, with his other leg still on the ground. Therefore, he did not complete the catch."
Ok NFL please take note of what position this ref is in: "I had the defender catching the ball
If he caught the ball it is an interception. Yet he then goes on to he didn't catch the ball. Someone please tell me how you can have catch in bounds and yet not have a catch? He either had a catch or he didn't. Don't say I had him catching the ball and then losing it because that is what a fumble is.
This rule, if it is a rule is the worst in the books at this time.
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| 26 | Perm Dude
Dude
ID: 030792616
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 11:08
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He can catch the ball but still not be an interception. The word "catch" doesn't mean "legal catch." For example, if a player caught the ball out-of-bounds it would still be a catch. But not a legal one.
Grabbing the ball and holding it with your hands (i.e., a "catch") is only one of several necessary steps for it to be a legal case.
And being disingenuous by trying to parse out the language isn't going to make it any different.
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| 27 | weykool
ID: 56050913
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 11:45
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I was going to respond.....but since perm stole my exact words.....my only response is..."what he said".
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| 28 | G aka Gmoney
ID: 329361323
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 13:17
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Just what we need the tick using a post just say I disagree by saying he agrees with someone else - yeah for the tick....zzzz
Anyway to Perm Dude:
True...when a player "catches the ball" out of bounds it doesn't count because he was out of bounds.
Troy caught the ball and was in bounds. If you catch a ball in bounds and then lose it it should be a fumble. Not an incomplete pass.
As I stated above if the NFL has an obscure rule that says Troy's catch (both possesion and inbounds)was not a catch and that the ref made the right call, I fully expect that rule to change in the offseason.
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| 29 | TB
Sherpa
ID: 031811922
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 13:18
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RE Post 21- I was thinking about that "TD" also when this post came up. He was like 2 yards short of the end zone and they called a TD.
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| 30 | TB
Sherpa
ID: 031811922
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 13:22
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The Readers' List: Worst calls in history
Page 2's List: Worst calls in sports history
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| 31 | G aka Gmoney
ID: 329361323
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 13:25
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What if Troy would have been on the ground for 5 seonds instead of the one or one and half seconds. And then after realizing no one had touched him tried to get up and the same thing happened. By rule (if it is really the rule) they would have to call it the same way despite a guy catching a ball in bounds and having possesion for 3-5 seconds on the ground it would still have to be an incomplete pass. Ridiculous.
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| 32 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 390391315
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 13:34
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NFL saying it was judgement call by the ref...
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs05/news/story?id=2294309
if that is the case not sure how you overturn the catch...not sure how you can definitively say that it was not a catch if it was based on a judgement call and not a specific rule
will be interesting to see if the NFL releases an official statement after the play is reviewed internally
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| 33 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 390391315
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 13:36
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another thing on reviews...IMO all reveiws should be done by an upstairs official and not a field official who has to walk over a TV and sit and watch the play a dozen times. Should be an official or two upstairs that simply calls down the decision...would make the entire process a lot quicker. heck they should have the decision made nearly as soon as the red flag is thrown.
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| 34 | Action Figure
ID: 287231610
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 13:57
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another thing on reviews...IMO all reveiws should be done by an upstairs officials
I agree. Isn't that how it is done inside the last two minutes? It should be the whole game.
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| 35 | G aka Gmoney
ID: 329361323
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 14:01
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ChicagoTRS,
Thanks for the post. Not knowing for certain I believed it was wither the worst call or the worst rule. I am now back to worst call in instant replay history:
1) According to the article, this was a judgement call and not a forced rule decision.
2) "Everyone" in the country knows that Troy caught the ball and had possession including the Morelli by his own words.
3) The ruling on the field was INT.
4) A call should only be overturned IF there is clearly evidence to overturn it.
5) Nothing clearly showed that the ruling on the field was incorrect.
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| 36 | Perm Dude
Dude
ID: 030792616
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 14:01
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Hockey has that--should be an ongoing thing, not something that is done only in response to a coach's challenge (for example).
A bad call shouldn't stand simply because a coach didn't catch it or didn't have time to ask for the review.
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| 37 | GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 060151121
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 14:38
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College football used the booth review during their Bowl Games.
Don't remember how long they have been using it that way.
Cliff
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| 38 | Mikel
ID: 6103315
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 15:16
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The Big Ten was the first conference to use replay in it's games and that started 2 years ago. This year many/most conference implemented instant replay in there games following the Big Ten's blueprint. IIRC, in out of conference games it was up to the away team if replay was to be used or not. If my momory serves me correct, Pete Carroll decided he did not want replay used in the ND game. Replay, like Cliff said, was used in all bowl games this year.
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| 39 | bibA
Sustainer
ID: 261028117
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 15:31
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Are there any plans for the NFL to improve on the bad officiating?
The NFL at least dodged a big time bullet when the Steelers came away with the victory. One of these years the Super Bowl will be decided by a horrible call by a ref, and then maybe something will be done to improve things. Maybe.....but I still wouldn't hold my breath.
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| 40 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 390391315
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 15:55
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In the last two minutes the upstair official calls for a review but the on field official still goes to the sideline TV and gets in his little booth and reviews the play etc...
What I am advocating is you could still have the same system of coaches challenges and upstairs challenges in the final two minutes but when a challenge occurs let an upstairs official make the call...not the on field official...the process takes too much time for the on field official to look at the call...if upstairs is doing the review they are sitting in front of TV and can make the decision quickly. Just do not see the point of having to use the on field official...just have an official upstairs to make the call. This is how the NHL does it.
I don't think I am for reviewing every close call..I think it is still good to have some sort of limitation. You really could probably review 20+ calls a game if you allowed unlimited...just watching the spot of the ball it could often be reviewed and changed.
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| 41 | bibA
Sustainer
ID: 261028117
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 16:22
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The NFL is now saying that this play was NOT called as a result of a rule, but that it was a JUDGEMENT call, and that the ref, Morelli, determined that it was NOT a catch, that Papumalo didn't have possession.
Is there ANYONE out there who agrees that this was not a reception? That he didn't have possession?
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| 42 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 16:24
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G Money, dude, I don't think you get it. It doesn't matter that 99% of us think this was an interception. What matters is the rule. The referee correctly interpreted that by rule, this was an incomplete same with that horrible tuck rule. Hate the RULE, not the OFFICIAL! Officials are human and they will miss plays, just like baseball hitters don't get a hit every time or hoops players don't make every shot and receivers drop easy passes. Things happen.
All I can say is that there are some obvious plays. For instance, if there is a jumpball with 1 on the shot clock in the NBA, by rule, the shot clock goes up to 5. We all know there was 1 on the shot clock. Same thing for a foul in the front court where the shot clock is reset to 14 or stays the same if there is more time left than that. And if you strike out in MLB, you can run to first if the ball touches thr ground. We all know that he struck out, but by rule, he can get to first safely. Again, there is a rule that governs that play. In the NFL, you get a free kick on a fair catch that lets you kick a Field Goal with no one allowed to rush and if the ball goes through the uprights, you get three points for it. There is a littany of examples that are all governed by a rule, not a judgment based on what most fans think might be right based on our observance of the game.
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| 43 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 16:34
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What's funny is that now the NFL is saying that the referee misinterpreted the rule. I'm sure details will follow.
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| 44 | bibA
Sustainer
ID: 261028117
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 16:34
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A "Judgement" call
Maybe the NFL is trying to distance themselves from the obvious bad call.
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| 45 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 390391315
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 16:39
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Quite obvious the NFL is trying to seperate themselves from this call...leaving the official out on his own on this one.
So I guess in the end it really was a bad call.
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| 46 | TB
Sherpa
ID: 031811922
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 16:40
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correct link from above post
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| 47 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 16:49
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Again, it's not a bad call (judgment), it's a misinterpreation of the rule. The NFL is saying that his interpretation is only accurate when an oppenent makes contact.
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| 49 | sarge33rd
ID: 24037109
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 17:11
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post deleted. it was a redundant link.
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| 50 | bibA
Sustainer
ID: 261028117
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 18:02
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ref - then why is the NFL saying that the official erred and made a mistake when he overruled the call made on the field? Why are they saying Morelli should have let the play stand?
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| 51 | bibA
Sustainer
ID: 261028117
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 18:05
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You guys who are defending the call - Is the NFL wrong when it states:
"The definition of a catch - or in this case an interception - states that in the process of making a catch a player must maintain possession of the ball after he contacts the ground," Pereira said.
"The rule regarding the performing of an act common to the game applies when there is contact with a defensive player and the ball comes loose, which did not happen here."
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| 52 | Gmoney II
ID: 4011618
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 19:08
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Ref, Weykool, Perm and others.....apology accepted.
Guess what, I do get it. This is the worst call in NFL instant replay history. Everyone watching the game with the exception of the ref in charge knew this was an interception and a fumble. Had the Steelers lost there would have been a useless apology from the league. Fortunately the Steelers overcame this huge mistake.
The NFL said the referee made a mistake: Troy Polamalu caught the ball.
The league acknowledged Monday that Referee Pete Morelli erred when he overturned on replay Polamalu's interception of a Peyton Manning pass Sunday in the playoff game between Pittsburgh and Indianapolis.
Mike Pereira, the league's vice president of officiating, said in a statement that Morelli should have let the call on the field stand.
"He maintained possession long enough to establish a catch," Pereira said. "Therefore, the replay review should have upheld the call on the field that it was a catch and fumble."
This is pretty much what I have stated in the total of my posts above. Maybe I did know what I was talking about :0
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| 53 | sarge33rd
ID: 24037109
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 19:12
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the call had no outcome, on the final result of the game. Hence, it isnt "the worst call in history". I agree with TB, way above. The Tom Brady fumble, which was called otherwise, DID cost Oak that game. THAT, was the worst call in history.
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| 54 | Perm Dude
Dude
ID: 030792616
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 19:13
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Trust me, G. When I apologize you'll know it.
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| 55 | TB
Sherpa
ID: 031811922
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 19:24
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...and don't forget Sarge, allowed NE to move on and eventually become *Superbowl champs.
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| 56 | bibA
Sustainer
ID: 261028117
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 19:47
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Okay, I will agree that the infamous tuck rule call was worse than this one, mainly because it ended up deciding the game. Had the Steelers lost tho, this call would have been alongside the tuck call as an equal in the annals of bad calls.
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| 57 | weykool
ID: 56050913
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 19:51
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G:
Go back and read my post and count the number of times I used the word "IF"
When you reread what I said I'm sure you will be forthcoming with your apology.
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| 58 | TB
Sherpa
ID: 031811922
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 19:52
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C'mon, we all know the absolute worse call ever was when Bettis called heads/tails and the ref messed it up and gave the Lions the choice. Where was the instant replay when you needed it?...lol
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| 59 | Perm Dude
Dude
ID: 030792616
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 19:56
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I'd have to put my vote in for whoever convinced Ditka to wear dreadlocks when he picked Ricky Williams. That has to rank as one of the worst NFL calls...
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| 60 | swami
ID: 46851118
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 20:01
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Great reads in #30. I wonder if the list will be re-done? I guess not since it had little impact on the eventual winner. Maybe not running for a 2yd 1st down with 2 TO's left should be on the list...
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| 61 | G aka Gmoney
ID: 329361323
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 20:42
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Hmmm I see saying sorry/admitting error can be difficult. Another surprise.
In reading the posts above, I may have jumped to a conclusion on Perm (sorry) but Action Figure and Ref are clearly wrong in their posts above. As for Weykool, I know he had no idea what he was saying but just posted to disagree with me which I am used to.
As to the other posts IMO a call is "bad" based on how wrong it was, not an outcome of the game. The fact that the Steelers won doesn't make this call better or worse. It may have had less of an impact in the end but the call itself was just plain horrible.
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| 62 | Tree
ID: 60181620
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 21:21
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Hmmm I see saying sorry/admitting error can be difficult. Another surprise.
admitting error, is easy.
admitting error to an ungracious, immature, jerk, is not easy.
dismissing that person, is.
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| 63 | G aka Gmoney
ID: 329361323
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 21:26
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Another tick surfaces :) Nice to see they all come out int he same thread. Yeah, yeah for Tree.
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| 64 | G aka Gmoney
ID: 329361323
Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 21:29
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Tree - I am surprised you were able to break from your constant fighting with Baldwin/Boldwin to post here. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't post something that you can call him name about or say something rude to him about. Quick, get back to the politics forum so you can fight again. Yeah, Yeah for Tree. Go man!
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| 65 | TB
Sherpa
ID: 031811922
Tue, Jan 17, 2006, 00:44
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I don't agree with Tree very often, but you have come across like a jerk in this thread. This is a forum. Everyone is entitled to share their opinion. You thought it was the worse call in history. I thought it should have been ruled as an incomplete pass on the field. I don't think there was enough evidence to overturn it once it was called an interception, but we see boatloads of "receptions" when the receiver uses the ground to help them catch it and it is ruled incomplete. It isn't the first "wrong" call ever made and won't be the last.
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| 66 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Jan 17, 2006, 00:58
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It's impossible to rationalize with an irrational person.
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| 67 | Nuclear Gophers
ID: 56027175
Tue, Jan 17, 2006, 06:28
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The NFL has just announced they have fired the refs that did the Steeler-Indy game. But dont worry they got their regular jobs back as U.N. Weapon Inspectors.
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| 68 | sarge33rd
ID: 2511422414
Tue, Jan 17, 2006, 09:55
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I don't agree with Tree very often,...
I nominate that as "understatement" of the year. :)
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Post a reply to this message: (But first, how about checking out this sponsor?)
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