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Subject: Is Vince Young Really a Dolt?
Posted by: KrazyKoalaBears
- [61482622] Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 00:03
ProFootballTalk RumorMill
First he scored a six (the lowest score ever) on the Wonderlic.
Then, the NFL says the test was scored incorrectly.
Now, the tests are being re-scored and the new results will be available later in the week.
And there's word he might get to take the test again.
Any bets that he manages to score better the second time around? Both on the re-score and the actual taking of the test? Either way, Young's stock in the draft seems to be plummeting faster than Enron. |
| 1 | THK
ID: 221132116
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 02:19
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That's hilarious. I took the test and scored at 26. Average but 20 points better than the soon to me millionaire...
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| 2 | The Beezer
Leader
ID: 191202817
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 02:42
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As an Oklahoma native, this does not change my opinion of Texans at all.
:):)
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| 3 | holt
ID: 491122318
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 04:15
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that's amazing. isn't it multiple choice, with just 3-5 possible answers for each question? how can anyone get 6 out of 50? just fill in box A on every question and you probably beat a 6.
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| 4 | Toral
ID: 541029611
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 06:39
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According to an insider-type on ESPN radio last night, Vince took it again and scored a 16. The draft combine folks are saying that the first test was somehow improperly administered.
Wonderlic trivia: who's the only player to put up a perfect score on the Wonderlic?
Toral
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| 5 | Toral
ID: 541029611
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 06:49
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Looking at the link further down, the new 16 must be from a rescoring, not a second test. Duh on me.
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| 6 | barilko6
ID: 32152511
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 07:18
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re 4: Was it Robert Smith...that dude was smart
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| 7 | barilko6
ID: 32152511
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 07:28
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re 4 and 6...
Alright, I was curious and did a search. There were actually 2 players, even though one player left a question blank, he was still credited with a perfect score. They both went to the same school, and I have heard of one of them.
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| 8 | Myboyjack
Dude
ID: 014826271
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 07:52
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#5 = Pat McAnally of my Cincinnati Bengals?
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| 9 | Toral
ID: 541029611
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 07:57
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Yep that was the guy (someone apparently did it more recently -- see barilko6 posts).
In Bill Walsh's book he said that he didn't like to be addressed as "Coach" because some very smart players would say the term in a sort of patronizing way -- like Pat McInally.
If I had had to give clues, one would have been "myboyjack should get this".
Toral
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| 10 | KrazyKoalaBears
ID: 61482622
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 09:56
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that's amazing. isn't it multiple choice, with just 3-5 possible answers for each question?
Which makes you wonder how a) the test could have been "scored incorrectly" and b) it could be re-scored and suddenly have 10 more correct answers.
ProFootballTalk.com's Sequence of Events...
1. Word broke on Saturday afternoon of the test score. We heard it from a league source in Indy who was "99 percent" certain that the score was accurate. We later confirmed from another league source at the combine that Young had scored a six.
2. Word of the score spread faster than a blister-causing virus at Ron Mexico's high school reunion. By Saturday night, it was the talk of the town.
3. By Sunday morning, other publications had reported on the score.
4. By early Sunday afternoon, there were rumors that the combine officials were re-checking Young's test in order to determine whether it had been properly graded.
5. By late Sunday afternoon, we heard that the guy responsible for grading the test had screwed the thing up.
6. At about the same time, Texans G.M. Charley Casserly announced to 100 or so reporters that the report of the low score was inaccurate. He offered no other details.
7. By Sunday evening, we heard that some now believe the test was graded properly, and that someone had cobbled together the grading error excuse because Texas coach Mack Brown's head nearly exploded once he learned that the low score had been leaked.
They go on to cite SEVERAL sources that confirm a) the low score and b) that the test wasn't incorrectly scored.
They also link to a Houston Chronicle article that states, Young took the test again and scored 16. According to Young's agent, Major Adams, the Sunday test was administered by Jeff Foster, executive director of National Scouting Combine.
So it turns out that the 6 didn't mysteriously become a 16. No, he took the test again and the second time around, he scored a 16. With the executive director of the National Scouting Combine there to administer the test. Nothing fishy there, eh?
Also from the Houston Chronicle article, a description of the Wonderlic test: The test — 50 multiple-choice, non-football questions in 12 minutes — is a barometer that teams use to gauge a prospect's ability to learn.
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| 11 | barilko6
ID: 32152511
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 10:03
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They have a sample up on ESPN. The questions are actually pretty easy if you take your time and watch for the little tricks:
Wonderlic Sample Questions
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| 12 | C1-NRB
ID: 24050310
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 12:30
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There are reasons Mack never let Vince talk to the media.
Anyone who heard his Rose Bowl postgame comments would know the accuracy of a "6"
The guys I watched the game with (all t.u. fans but me) all looked at each other and said, paraphrasing just slightly, "Well, he's not paid to speak."
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| 13 | Myboyjack
ID: 27651610
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 14:49
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This would scare the beejeezus out of me if I had an early draft pick I was considering using on Young. Cutler had an impressive combine and may pass Young (and Leinhart) up.
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| 14 | Toral
ID: 541029611
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 14:53
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Even a 16 scares me (though I understand that was Dan Marino's score). I wouldn't touch the guy until the 3rd round.
Toral
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| 15 | Mikel
ID: 541221513
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 15:44
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Re: #14
So Toral, what is more important to a team...Young's wonderlic score or a tape of the National Championship game?
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| 16 | holt
ID: 491122318
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 15:53
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I read somewhere that jeff george scored a 12. and supposedly kevin curtis (rams wr) scored 48/50.
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| 17 | Mark L
ID: 31159914
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 16:04
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Brett Favre had 22. Donovan McNabb 15. Story in the Milwaukee paper this AM listed a bunch of QB scores.
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| 18 | Da Bomb
ID: 43359416
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 16:18
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From rotoworld:
Peter King of Sports Illustrated told the Dan Patrick show that Vince Young was completely unprepared to take the Wonderlic test.
So, um, how does this matter? What was Young going to prepare if he had known about it? Study his 3x tables? Sign up for an 8th grade algebra class for a semester?
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| 19 | Toral
ID: 541029611
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 16:22
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15
I'd also consider a tape of the NG Game. Weird mechanics, always operating from the shotgun (could he remember differential snap counts?) also say "Stay Away".
Toral
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| 20 | Toral
ID: 541029611
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 16:24
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I read somewhere that jeff george scored a 12
I heard on ESPN radio today that Jeff George scored a 10. Anyone for 8?
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| 21 | Twarpy
ID: 56056913
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 16:27
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This reminded me of reading an SI article back in November 1999...
Peyton Manning Timeline
A Sports Illustrated cover story reveals that Peyton uses visual aids (Polaroids of items of clothing) to dress himself and once called girlfriend Ashley Thompson long-distance to ask how to open a can of soup. "He didn't know what a can opener looked like," says Thompson.
Impressive.
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| 22 | Da Bomb
ID: 43359416
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 16:32
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According to wikipedia, George did score a 10.
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| 23 | Frick@Work
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 16:35
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If you were a GM and a QB scored a 6 wouldn't you be worried about his ability to pick up the playbook?
As for Manning, how often have heard him described as a "intelligent" QB. Granted I'm a Colt's fan and I often wonder if he doesn't overthink things, see Play-offs.
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| 24 | Perm Dude
Dude
ID: 030792616
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 16:39
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I'd be more concerned about criminal records rather than intelligence tests for players with a proven success record on the field.
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| 25 | Toral
ID: 541029611
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 16:44
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The college field is different than the pro field. Young's not going to have an entire university amassed to protect him once he gets the millions of dollars.
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| 26 | Perm Dude
Dude
ID: 030792616
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 16:46
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No, but it's likely he'll be holding a clipboard for a year or two anyway because that's what they do in the pros.
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| 27 | Toral
ID: 541029611
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 16:50
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Will he know which side of the clipboard is up?
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| 28 | Frick@Work
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 16:59
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Even if he knows which side of the clipboard is up, will he be able to read it?
I read somewhere that jeff george scored a 12
I've heard rumors that George couldn't read, or not well, when he graduated from high school. This was coming from someone who was at Warren Central with him.
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| 29 | Perm Dude
Dude
ID: 030792616
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 16:59
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He'll quickly learn that the "up" side is the one that hurts more when Coach hits him in the head with it.
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| 30 | wolfer
ID: 25155277
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 17:12
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Re 20.
I can't find the exact link but I beleieve that Javon Walker scored an 8.
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| 31 | C1-NRB
ID: 24050310
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 18:29
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I remember an article in SI from a few years back that said teams didn't want lineman scoring higher than the QB because they didn't want them questioning the play calling in the huddle.
I pity the team that has a line whose total combined score (in Vince's case his line's score should not be higher than 30) did not exceed the highest possible score on the test (50).
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| 32 | Toral
ID: 541029611
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 18:35
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I wonder if that's what they said. Offensive linemen score the highest by position. You couldn't find a real offensive line that would score lower than McNabb, Brroks, George etc.
Toral
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| 33 | kev
Donor
ID: 043111845
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 18:43
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Is it possible that Vince took the test with a red crayon, and that is what caused the error?
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| 34 | KrazyKoalaBears
ID: 61482622
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 20:46
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To follow up on #18...
Peter King of Sports Illustrated told the Dan Patrick show that Vince Young was completely unprepared to take the Wonderlic test.
We're not talking about unprepared like he didn't practice. We mean unprepared like he didn't know he was going to take it. If anything gets Young to fire his family friends who are acting as his agents, this is it.
Okay, so we have...
1. A "college student" who scored a 6 out of 50 on a test that a high school graduate should be able to at least pass (isn't that a 60%?)...
2. A "college student" who would have had to "prepare," in some form or fashion, for said test...
3. A "college student" who ignored the Ricky Williams contract debacle and hired family friends to be his agents...
4. A legitimate news source legitimately reporting that the "college student" was unprepared for the test, as if it were news. Head's up guys: anytime a guy scores a 6 out of 50 on any test, he was unprepared.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure if I were a GM, I'd be looking elsewhere, regardless of what Marino, McNabb, or any other great QB scored. For every Marino and McNabb, I'm sure there are many more QBs that scored low and turned into miserable failures. And yes, I know scoring high doesn't guarantee success, but I'd at least like to know that there's some gray matter between the ears.
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| 35 | Toral
ID: 541029611
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 21:02
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Once he gets drafted, he can't be shielded from the media forever. If I was a reporter in his new town, I'd ask him "Vince, tell me about your college classes -- which ones you liked best, what you learned from each of them." And press him for an answer.
Toral
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| 36 | Da Bomb
ID: 43359416
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 21:08
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The reporters should ask that to Leinart. I'm sure he would tell them all about his ballroom dancing class, which was the only one he took.
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| 37 | FRICK
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Mon, Feb 27, 2006, 21:18
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I thought to be a considered a full-time student you had to take 8 hours a semester.
For some reason I am doubting that Vince was a Pre-med major like Robert Smith
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| 38 | Boxman
ID: 6122413
Tue, Feb 28, 2006, 14:08
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Hmmmmm....
Vince Young = Michael Bishop with better mobility?
I think Desmond Howard had nothing between his ears too.
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| 39 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Tue, Feb 28, 2006, 15:05
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My first thought is exactly what Frick first stated in #23. The NFL playbooks and the reads are incredibly difficult so I understand in comparison with the college version.
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| 40 | sarge33rd
ID: 2511422414
Tue, Feb 28, 2006, 16:20
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re 11...I scored 15. 1 short of VY's "retest"score with 35 fewer questions. I really dont see how anyone with a degree, can score THAT low.
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| 41 | Frick@Work
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Tue, Feb 28, 2006, 16:52
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Re: 40 And how can anyone graduate high school when they can't read?
I just heard on the radio that a local high school football coach has resigned and is taking a job in Oklahom with an estimated salary of over100k. You don't think these coaches put a little pressure on teachers to make sure their players pass. I guess that sort of pressure doesn't happen in colleges. /sarcasm.
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| 42 | Old Man Greene
ID: 4017269
Tue, Feb 28, 2006, 17:22
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Pat Mclnally wide receiver/punter from Harvard who played for the Cincinnati Bengals from 1977 to 1985, is the only player known to have scored a perfect 50. In 2005, it was rumored that Ryan Fitzpatrick, a quarterback also from Harvard, scored a perfect 50 but his actual accomplishment was to finish the test in 9 minutes with a score of 38 — the most impressive speed ever seen at the NFL combine. Fitzpatrick was drafted in 2005 by the St. Louis Rams — referenced in The Wall Street Journal (September 30, 2005) as the NFL's Smartest Team.
Some rumoured, but unconfirmed, scores of other NFL players and draft candidates:
Pat McInally, punter — 50
Mike Mamula, defensive end — 49
Kevin Curtis, wide receiver — 48
Adam Cox, sports radio producer — 43
Brian Griese, quarterback — 39
Eli Manning, quarterback — 39
Akili Smith, quarterback — 37 (suspected of cheating; scored 15 on first attempt)
Matt Darby, sports radio host — 36
Matt Leinart, quarterback — 35
Tom Brady, quarterback — 33
Steve Young, quarterback — 33
John Elway, quarterback — 30
Peyton Manning, quarterback — 28
Troy Aikman, quarterback — 29
Ryan Leaf, quarterback — 27
Ben Roethlisberger, quarterback — 25
David Carr, quarterback — 24
Brett Favre, quarterback — 22
Michael Vick, quarterback — 20
Vinny Testaverde, quarterback — 18
Antwaan Randle El, wide receiver (former college quarterback) — 17
Dan Marino, quarterback — 16
Vince Young, quarterback — 16 (previously rumored to have been 6)
Randall Cunningham, quarterback — 15
Donovan McNabb, quarterback — 12
Jeff George, quarterback — 10
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| 43 | NY Studs
ID: 7156236
Tue, Feb 28, 2006, 17:30
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Ryan Leaf scored a 27 which could mean 1 of 2 things:
A) the test means nothing or
B) VY is in deep sh!t.
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| 44 | Toral
ID: 541029611
Tue, Feb 28, 2006, 17:41
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I just heard Peter King say on the radio that Steve McNair got a 9.
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| 45 | biliruben
Leader
ID: 589301110
Tue, Feb 28, 2006, 18:25
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Kelly wasn't the brightest bulb in the pack either, but he ran the no-huddle well, and, after some early pick issues, seemed to shine in the offense. Perhaps they dumbed the O down a bit for him, but sometimes that's a good thing for an offense.
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| 46 | wolfer
ID: 25155277
Wed, Mar 01, 2006, 14:26
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Re 42
There is another one that is worth mentioning(from the same article above)
North Carolina guard Willie McNeill in 2005 - 0.
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| 47 | Old Man Greene
ID: 37221118
Fri, Mar 03, 2006, 17:19
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Vince Young reportedly re-took the exact same Wonderlic test when he improved his score to a 16.
If so, that might be worse than his originally embarrassing score. Profootballtalk.com also reports Friday that his original score was, in fact, scored incorrectly. He got a seven. Mar. 3 - 9:34 am et
Source: Profootballtalk.com
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| 48 | dollarbill
ID: 552232811
Tue, Mar 28, 2006, 18:10
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The sad thing is that now it appears that the put simple reads into the playbook for Young while at Texas. Yeah, that makes me confident as an NFL coach with my intricate schemes that this guy will pick up my system...can we say Ryan Leaf?
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| 49 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, May 18, 2006, 02:30
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I ran into this old artcle and thought it was funny.
Marcus Vick Scores an 11 on Wonderlic Test? - For as much crap as everyone (including us) gave Vince Young for scoring a moronic 6 on the Wonderlic problem solving test a few weeks ago (read it here), it seems strange that the low score of another name quarterback would slip by without much fanfare. According to the website NFLDraftAlmanac, the troubled brother of Falcons star Michael Vick scored only 11 on his Wonderlic test at the NFL scouting combine held in Indianapolis in February. (An unreliable source claims Vick proudly came out of the testing room after receiving his score and said, "I'm five times smarter than Vince!") What does this mean for Marcus' draft chances? According to Matt Bitonti, publisher of DraftDaddy.com, "Vick probably isn't being considered on most team's boards due to the off the field stuff, plus the fact that he isn't as fast or as tall as his brother. This test score is just another reason not to draft him." Just how bad is an 11? Bitonti claims that the low scores of both Young and Vick indicate that either they're functionally illiterate, mentally handicapped, or simply didn't care enough to take the test seriously; none are prized qualities for highly paid NFL quarterbacks. How bad is Young's fall in the draft likely to be as a result of his low scores? Bitonti rightly points out that on Young's retest he still only got a 16 (the average among QB's taking the test in Indy was 24.6, a third higher than Young's and more than twice as high as Vick's) and that was on a test he HAD ALREADY TAKEN ONCE. Seems like anyone could score better just by circling "C" for every answer, doesn't it? Unfortunately, former Virginia Tech QB wasn't even smart enough to ask for a retest. (Although either he or his lawyer were smart enough to convince a judge that those teens in the McDonald's parking lot mistook a cell phone for a handgun.) "It's an unacceptable score for a future NFL QB," said Bitonti, "It's ok to be only as bright as a potted plant for other positions (RB, DT, etc) but in this modern era of check offs, hot routes, audibles, reading defenses and with the playbooks thicker than the local yellow pages, having a dunce for a QB and paying him a top 3 contract simply isn't an option." DraftDaddy.com predicts Young will drop to the #10 pick and Vick much, much lower. Can you say Arena League? (wonderlich, wonderlick)
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| 50 | KrazyKoalaBears
ID: 15023167
Thu, May 18, 2006, 10:27
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Ref, we already knew Marcus was a dolt before he took the test. Just look at his college "career" and you'll know that.
The fact that he scored an 11 would only have been news because of how high it is, IMHO. :)
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| 51 | Motley Crue
Dude
ID: 439372011
Thu, May 18, 2006, 12:35
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Did anyone ever come up with a good nickname for little Vick?
Like Joey Mexico, or something along those lines.
Marc Mexico. Heh.
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| 52 | Trip
ID: 72553010
Thu, May 18, 2006, 14:02
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New Mexico
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| 53 | Motley Crue
Dude
ID: 439372011
Thu, May 18, 2006, 14:17
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That works.
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