Posted by: THK
- [2510332316] Mon, Jun 12, 2006, 12:53
Paper: Roethlisberger Involved In Motorcycle Accident
Clipped from the link:
PITTSBURGH -- Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger was injured in a motorcycle accident, the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review said.
According to the Tribune-Review's Web site, the accident happened Second Avenue near the 10th Street Bridge.
Roethlisberger was not wearing a helmet, according to the paper.
Police have closed down the bridge, Second Avenue and the Armstrong Tunnels.
Roethlisberger was taken to Mercy Hospital. There is no word on the extent of his injuries.
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This is obviously one we'll watch for you. We're hearing reports that Roethlisberger was conscious but groggy. He reportedly could answer simple questions like what his name was. He was reportedly bleeding from the head.
ESPN's John Clayton has just reported that the injuries do not appear to be life threatening. ---------- Wow. Immediately make me think of Jay Williams who is trying to come back 3 years after he was drafted. When will players learn? He wasn't even wearing a helmet. Hope he can recover fully.
1
Myboyjack
ID: 235581120 Mon, Jun 12, 2006, 13:00
Wow. I just listened to him live on Cincinnati radio this morning. Must have minutes before the wreck.
2
Myboyjack
ID: 235581120 Mon, Jun 12, 2006, 13:08
Looks like he did get up after the accident, though groggily and bleeding profusley from the head. He went over the handle bars and headlong into a windshield. A concussion seems certain.
3
Motley Crue Dude
ID: 439372011 Mon, Jun 12, 2006, 13:38
is a fool. Maybe this will teach him to start wearing a helmet. He's got a long career ahead of him if he can avoid things like this.
4
Ref Donor
ID: 539581218 Mon, Jun 12, 2006, 13:51
ESPN reports that he is in serious but stable condition on an operating table.
5
Seattle Zen
ID: 46315247 Mon, Jun 12, 2006, 14:13
An off-duty referee was on the sidewalk when hit the car. He walked towards the accident with one arm up but inexplicably raised the other when he remembered that he lives in Pittsburg. Though Ben's head obviously broke the p[l]ane, the ball was no where near.
6
Motley Crue Dude
ID: 439372011 Mon, Jun 12, 2006, 14:40
Wow, I can't believe you thought that up already.
I'm still wondering how bad the injuries are.
7
Tree
ID: 1411442914 Mon, Jun 12, 2006, 15:36
well, seems to me he had a brain injury before the accident anyway. i mean, you'd have to, to ride around without a helmet on.
8
GoatLocker Sustainer
ID: 060151121 Mon, Jun 12, 2006, 16:49
For anyone to be riding a motorcycle without a helmet is about as dumb as it can get.
For a pro athlete to be riding a mototcycle is very stupid.
For a pro athlete to be riding a motorcycle AND not be wearing a helmet is as stupid as it gets.
I hope he is okay and recovers fully. Very lucky to be alive.
11
Myboyjack
ID: 235581120 Mon, Jun 12, 2006, 19:50
They're talking about "severe knee injuries" now. That's a little scary if you're a Steeler fan.
The missing teeth thing would go over well in Pitt, I think.
12
Motley Crue
ID: 2192327 Mon, Jun 12, 2006, 20:08
Yeah. He'll now mangle his own name when he tries to say it.
Heh.
13
sarge33rd
ID: 52544313 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 12:06
As a longtime ridser, and a longtime advocate of Helmet Laws; this is IMHO the perfect case for legislatures across the country to demonstrate the fallacy with the primary complaint with helmet laws.
That being...its only me I hurt if something happens and the state has no right to legislate my life.
In this case, a Super Bowl caliber QB, has hurt seriously, the likelihood of his teams repeating. This impacts the economics of every teammate. It hurts the fans, it hurts ownership and it hurts tourism prospects within the city. (Playoff contenders tend to sell more tickets than non contenders late in the season. I think it fair to assume that some of these ticket sales are form "out of towners".) As for the non professional athlete, it hurts the family, coworkers, friends etc.
Frankly, I am surprised that his contract didnt prohibit motorcycling entirely, let alone without a helmet/safety gear.
14
StLCards Leader
ID: 31010716 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 12:21
I haven't read anything credible about serious knee injuries. Nothing mentioned in the doctor's statement yesterday either. I've actually heard that he could be ready to participate in training camp at some later time this year, which to me sounds incredible. Anyone have more recent information with links? So far it sounds like he was pretty lucky.
Statement from:
Dr. Daniel Pituch, Chief, Division of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery, Department of Surgery
Mercy Hospital of Pittsburgh
The purpose of this briefing is to update you on the status of Mr. Ben Roethlisberger. As you know, Mr. Roethlisberger was injured in an accident this morning. He was transported to Mercy Hospital of Pittsburgh by City of Pittsburgh Medic 14. Mercy Hospital is a Level I Regional Resource Trauma Center, which indicates that the hospital provides the highest level of trauma care. Mr. Roethlisberger was evaluated by our trauma team and taken to the operating room, where he underwent surgery for multiple facial fractures. All of the fractures were successfully repaired. He was in surgery for approximately 7 hours. His brain, spine, chest, and abdomen appear to be without serious injury, and there are no other confirmed injuries at this time. Mr. Roethlisberger emerged from surgery at approximately 9:00 p.m. He remains listed in "serious, but stable condition." His condition is not expected to change throughout the evening.
I also wonder how much a hemlet would have helped him in this accident, unless it was a full helmet that wrapped around your chin. Sounds like he took it face on which a standard helmet doesn't tend to help much for.
15
Sludge
ID: 11042612 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 12:30
In this case, a Super Bowl caliber QB, has hurt seriously, the likelihood of his teams repeating. This impacts the economics of every teammate. It hurts the fans, it hurts ownership and it hurts tourism prospects within the city. (Playoff contenders tend to sell more tickets than non contenders late in the season. I think it fair to assume that some of these ticket sales are form "out of towners".) As for the non professional athlete, it hurts the family, coworkers, friends etc.
So, let me get this straight.
If this accident hadn't happened, and he had instead announced his surprise retirement that day, you would be advocating the passage of laws preventing early retirement by athletes?
16
sarge33rd
ID: 52544313 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 12:30
Speaking for katie and I only....we both insist on wearing full helmets. The kinf with wraparound protection and chin/jaw guards.
Not a strawman, sarge. Each of the above effects that you described would happen in equal (or greater) quantities if he had retired. Since you feel that these effects justify the passing of legislation to prevent their happening due to a motorcycle accident, I feel it is entirely reasonable to conjecture that you would of course feel that legislation should be passed to prevent their happening due to other causes.
20
StLCards Leader
ID: 31010716 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 12:44
Instead of arguing for helmet laws, it seems that outlawing motorcycles altogether may be a better solution. Take the scenario that his knees were wiped out in the accident and then you have a case for outlawing the uber-dangrous mortocycle itself. I remember locally when Tony Twist flew off his motorcycle over a car while wearing a helmet and severly broke his pelvis and thus ended his career as a hockey player.
Of course, there have been severe car crashes as well, so where does it stop. Personally I don't even like being told I have to wear a seat belt. I would wear a helmet, but then again we have helmet laws where I live.
21
sarge33rd
ID: 52544313 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 12:45
...I feel it is entirely reasonable to conjecture...
this is where you're in error.
22
Perm Dude
ID: 45548138 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 12:47
I think there is some minimum safety requirements that should be made: seat belts, motorcycle helmets, child seats. So long as the results of not doing these minimum safety requirements are that insurance (i.e., everyone else) has to pay for it, there should be a small standard of safety to be met.
23
Sludge
ID: 11042612 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 12:52
this is where you're in error.
Ah, yes. So now I find out that I'm not even allowed to judge what is reasonable or not. Very nice.
It's quite simple, really.
Sarge: X should be outlawed BECAUSE it causes A, B, and C.
Sludge: Y also causes A, B, and C. Shouldn't it also be outlawed?
Sarge: Go away.
24
sarge33rd
ID: 52544313 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 12:58
No Sludge. Your comparative and conclusion do not follow automatically.
The government already legislates the use of seatbelts, largely "for the common good" of society. I simply hold that this exact same logic, applies to helmet laws. I then point out the fallacy behind the claim of opponents to such laws, that it is only they who suffer in the event of an accident. At no time, have I advocated the government dictate who may/mat not retire, and under what terms/conditions.
Clear yet?
25
barilko6
ID: 21511310 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 13:19
I don't necessarily think its only Ben who suffers when Ben gets into an accident.
Lets say that for argument sake that Ben is just another Joe Public Schmo--then there is still the driver of the other car that should be considered.
Working with at-risk youth, I often see the trauma that accidents cause in their lives, and the guilt they feel when something happens to the other drivers, some of which have lost life or suffered serious injuries due to not wearing a seatbelt or a helmet.
Now because of those injuries, someone else who chose to take every safety precaution available, must deal with the fact that the accident in which they were involved took someone else's life, which in turn causes an endless ordeal of post-accident trauma.
In Canada, with our public health system, that adds yet another compenent to the requiring of helmets and seatbelts, as the cost of rehabilitation falls more directly on the public.
That being said, that fact that Ben was on a street bike, as opposed to a harley or some other cruising bike, makes his decision to not wear a helmet even more stupid. With a street bike, your body mass is positioned forward, thus making it pretty much inevitable that your head will be impacted in even the slightest instance of contact.
Wow...that could be the longest post I have ever submitted.
26
Myboyjack
ID: 235581120 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 13:19
Let's just outlaw motorcycles for the "common good" What's the difference?
27
sarge33rd
ID: 52544313 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 13:27
cars too then, since they result in more deaths/injuries than any other single cause every year. right?
28
Sludge
ID: 435271313 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 14:27
cars too then, since they result in more deaths/injuries than any other single cause every year. right?
Oldest trick in the book. Look at raw totals instead of relative totals.
29
sarge33rd
ID: 52544313 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 14:49
if you want to insist on a political discussion, perhaps we need to move it to a more appropriate forum?
re raw vs relevant totals, when considering the 90+% factor of motorcycle accidents being the car drivers fault; the statement re banning cars would still hold true.
Let's just outlaw motorcycles for the "common good"
Republicans too...
32
sarge33rd
ID: 52544313 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 15:35
its sourced data. I just cant recall the particular magazine/edition it came from. Actual stat was in excess of 94%, but in an effort to "safe side", I only reference the 90% number.
The conclusions derived at the time, were that the accidents were predominantly due to car/truck/van/suv drivers, not being consiously aware of and watching for...the motorcyclist. (for anecdotal evidence, I would point to any rider with 4+yeras under their belt. Their experiences, will no doubt reflect the same.)
33
KrazyKoalaBears
ID: 235451314 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 15:46
The conclusions derived at the time, were that the accidents were predominantly due to car/truck/van/suv drivers, not being consiously aware of and watching for...the motorcyclist.
And, given the rate at which people don't see cars, I would assume not being seen is a bigger problem for motorcycles because of their size, or lack thereof. I imagine the blind spot for a car driver looking for a motorcycle is much bigger than a car driver looking for a car.
So, to keep the argument alive (hey, why not!), getting rid of motorcycles would still help the common good since it would then reduce the number of vehicles that could easily get lost to car/truck/van/suv drivers, right?
It should be noted that I don't actually think that would solve the problem, but given the idea that a motorcycle makes me harder to see to other vehicles and knowing how much other vehicles almost hit me when I'm in a car, you'll never find me riding on a motorcycle. It's a borderline deathwish, IMHO.
34
Mattinglyinthehall Leader
ID: 01629107 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 15:49
I just cant recall the particular magazine/edition it came from.
That makes it awfully hard to consider the validity of your source. I don't doubt that you actually read that stat some place but without any onfo on where that number came from (not just the mag you read it in, but where they got it) it can't effectively be used to strengthen an argument.
35
sarge33rd
ID: 52544313 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 15:58
understood MITH, but do oyu honestly recall every specific mag title and edition for each and every article you have ever read? Didnt think so.
Doing abit of google research however, causes me to think that article may well have made reference only to multi-vehicle accidents. (Since about 1/2 of all motorcycle accidents are single vehicle, this would mean that on the surface, 90% of 50%...or approx 45% of the overall are caused by other vehicle operators.)
36
biliruben Leader
ID: 589301110 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 16:07
In 2001:
Motorcycles were involved in 34 fatal crashes per 100 mil. vehicle miles traveled (VMT). In comparison, cars and trucks were involved in around 2.
Motorcycles were involved in 594 crashes resulting in injury per 100 mil. vehicle miles traveled. In comparison, cars were involved in 144, light trucks 125 and heavy trucks 43/100 mil. VMT.
In contrast, motorcyles were involved in slightly more than half as many (152/100 mil VMT) non-injury accidents compared to cars (278/ 100 mil MVT) and light trucks (275/ 100 mil. MVT), and about the same as heavy trucks (161/100 mil. MVT).
Conclusion: Motorcyclists get hurt and killed a lot more than car and truck drivers.
biliruben Leader
ID: 589301110 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 16:15
Motorcyclists involved in fatal accidents are also more likely to be hammered (>0.1 BAC: 27% in 2000 vs 19% for cars), though this stat has gone down markedly. The figure was around 40% for motorcyclists in the 1980s with greater than 50% having some alcohol in their system.
39
Sludge
ID: 11042612 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 16:16
Darn that Steppenwolf and that darn movie.
40
Mattinglyinthehall Leader
ID: 01629107 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 16:31
And now for an anecdotal and speculative (and therefore mostly useless) contribution:
Thinking of all the times that some daredevil on a bike blew past me at 100+mph I'd certainly guess that recklessness on the biker's part has contributed to a bit more than 6% of multi-vehicle bike accidents.
41
StLCards Leader
ID: 31010716 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 16:37
I found a pretty good article from 1992, and even though it is a bit old I doubt things have changed markedly since then.
It categorized 2074 fatal motorcylce accidents in the U.S. in 1992 by crash type. The largest (41%) was classified as 'Ran off road'. Within that type There was little indication (2%) that the motorcyclist was avoiding, swerving or sliding because of animals in the road, other vehicles, pedestrians, ice, road deformities or other obstacles. The second leading type (18%) was "Ran traffic control". In this category it was determined that the usual cause was the other drivers fault (184 vs 94) and that the largest motorcyle factor was driving too fast (107 vs 8).
ANALYSIS OF FATAL MOTORCYCLE CRASHES: CRASH TYPING DAVID F. PREUSSER, ALLAN F. WILLIAMS, and ROBERT G. ULMER. Accid. Anal. and Prev., Vol. 27, No. 6, pp. 845-851, 1995. Copyright 0 1995 Elsevier Science Ltd.
42
StLCards Leader
ID: 31010716 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 18:04
"As you heard in our last briefing, Mr. Roethlisberger underwent approximately seven hours of surgery for multiple facial fractures. All of his injuries were successfully repaired by a team of four Mercy Hospital surgeons. Since our last update, Mr. Roethlisberger's family has permitted us to release a list of his injuries, and they are as follows:
"Fractures to his upper and lower jaws, a mild concussion, a fractured nose, fractured facial bones, multiple head lacerations, multiple abrasions and contusions. He has lost two teeth and he has chipped several other teeth. There is no evidence of any major structural damage to either of his knees. Mr. Roethlisberger's CT scan of the brain showed no injury, and our continued observation shows that his brain is functioning normally. This is the extent of the information I have been permitted to share with you today."
Dr. Pituch's reference to Roethlisberger's knees likely stemmed from the family's desire to clarify a series of erroneous reports that surfaced early Monday evening alleging substantial damage to both of his knees.
from the link in post 37, comes the most telling statistic;
And NHTSA also reports that the per capita rate of motorcycle fatalities was 41% higher in states without helmet laws.
'nuff said.
44
Ref Donor
ID: 539581218 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 19:41
Ben's knees are structurally fine his doctor just announced. He's lost two teeth and chipped numerous others. He didn't talk about his jaw and whatever else they operated on yesterday.
45
biliruben Leader
ID: 589301110 Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 19:48
I've seen a couple motorcycle accidents. The first one was under 10 mph. Motorcycle pulling out of a parking lot in Illinois (no helmet law). He didn't look both ways and pick-up truck hits him going slow. The howls of "My head! My head!" as he writhed on the ground was chilling.
Last year driving on an LA highway. Harley on it's side. Two passengers. One with a tarp over her. The other with parametics trying to get his heart beating again. Blood everywhere.
I am just the type to kill myself on a motorcycle. That's why I don't let myself have one. I laid down 2 different dirt bikes as a kid, and that was plenty.
46
Kyle
ID: 261371521 Wed, Jun 14, 2006, 00:37
After that post: On a lighter note. The missing teeth will make Pittsburgh fans raise him up to god-like status now. Imagine: "Big Ben's so tough, a semi ran him over while he was riding his motorcycle without and helmet, and all that happened was he lost 2 teeth. Even without those teeth he could still chew through barbed wire." Steelheads would think this way! (I'm just messing with you Steeler fans, I am just bitter for the Divisional Playoff loss. I still blame Nicolette Harris. That B*tch!)
47
Ref Donor
ID: 539581218 Tue, Jun 27, 2006, 00:17
I wonder if his head was as jumbled as his name is here when he hit that car w/o a helmet.
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