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Subject: Nick Saban - Liar
Posted by: Matt G
- [81052212] Wed, Jan 03, 2007, 11:13
Nick Saban is headed to the Alabama Crimson Tide, he told Dolphins owner Wayne Huzienga this morning and called his assistants as well.
He denied it not more than 2 weeks ago and continuously told the Dolphins he'd be back.
How can you deny deny deny, tell these lies and then go back?
Incredible, from a guy I thought had class. |
| 1 | KrazyKoalaBears
ID: 15023167
Wed, Jan 03, 2007, 11:38
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Incredible, from a guy I thought had class.
Really? This is the same guy who denied, denied, denied he was leaving LSU for the Dolphins.
Honestly, I think he'll stay at Alabama until another NFL job (with a better team) comes along. Then, he'll deny, deny, deny that he's going back to the NFL and then will go.
Once a liar, always a liar.
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| 2 | Nerfherders
ID: 501035289
Wed, Jan 03, 2007, 11:42
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What a crumb. I hope he never comes back to the NFL and if he does, goes 1-15 every year. Very dissappointing. He didnt even give himself a chance to make his mark on the Dolphins.
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| 3 | Trip
Leader
ID: 13961611
Wed, Jan 03, 2007, 12:00
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He didn't do one thing for the dolphins, beside give a false sense of hope. This is the final insult to an already insulting season.
Saban leaves as a loser, weasel
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| 4 | Matt G
ID: 81052212
Wed, Jan 03, 2007, 12:02
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I don't remember him denying about going to the dolphins, I remember that for years he said, I am not going to the NFL right now... The year he went to the dolphins I thought was the one year he didn't deny...
Either way, I liked him, I liked how he coached, I thought he had this team going in a great direction, a QB and a few lineman away from playoffs and contending. The only move I didn't like when he was there was signing Culpepper. The Ronnie Brown Pick I liked, although I think they could of done better trading that pick for multiple first rounders to get a different running back and a lineman that year.
Either way it's pointless, here is to not making the playoffs for another 5 years while another 2 coaches vie to replace shula.
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| 5 | Matt G
ID: 81052212
Wed, Jan 03, 2007, 12:07
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Le Batard ripped him a new one, I like Dan, he's always good. Guess I'll have to watch PTI to see if he is on tonight to bash saban...
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| 6 | Electroman
ID: 44651412
Wed, Jan 03, 2007, 13:23
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Liar, maybe. But put yourself in his situation. Dennis Green got fired after 3 seasons, Mora after 3 seasons. People thought that the Dolphins were going to make the playoffs this year, and if they missed next year, would they have kept him? I have learned in life that you look after yourself and your family first. That being said, I would have liked to see what he would have been able to do with the Dolphins.
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| 7 | Tree
ID: 1411442914
Wed, Jan 03, 2007, 13:47
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man, i didn't realize this board was filled with people who just started watching professional and big time college sports last week.
seriously - like this is out of the ordinary?
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| 8 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714
Wed, Jan 03, 2007, 13:53
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I have learned in life that you look after yourself and your family first.
sorta says it all, doesnt it?
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| 9 | J
Leader
ID: 049346417
Wed, Jan 03, 2007, 14:14
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Don't ALL coaches do this? Look at Jim Mora - he said that he had interest in the UW job and I really believe he got fired for saying it. So, of course he's gotta deny it!!!!!
Also, Alabama didn't offer him $40mil until a few days ago too.
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| 10 | Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Wed, Jan 03, 2007, 14:17
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I think thats exactly it, he was probably not really considering it. And then an offer floats across his desk... "40 Million?!!"
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| 11 | KrazyKoalaBears
ID: 15023167
Wed, Jan 03, 2007, 14:56
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J, all he had to say is, "I'm the coach of the Miami Dolphins and that's the team I'd like to talk about at this press conference." I just thought of that as I typed it. Is it really that hard? At that point, you're not denying interest in Alabama, but you're also not expressing interest in Alabama. Leaves you open to consider the offer if/when it comes across your desk without looking like a liar.
Seriously, I don't know how 'Bama fans can feel confident Saban will be around any more than 3-5 years. Clearly he's going to move on when the money's bigger. And no, not every coach/player does that.
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| 12 | Trip
Leader
ID: 13961611
Wed, Jan 03, 2007, 15:19
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man, i didn't realize this board was filled with people who just started watching professional and big time college sports last week.
Glad to see some of us aren't completely apathetic.
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| 13 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Jan 03, 2007, 17:34
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Saban only lied when his lips were moving
By Pat Forde
ESPN.com
PARADISE VALLEY, Ariz. -- With Nick Saban en route to a coronation in Tuscaloosa, it's officially time to change the vocabulary used to describe college coaches.
"Integrity" is out. "Character" is out. "Teacher" is out. "Leader of men" is out.
Nick Saban was 15-17 in two seasons as the Dolphins' head coach."Liar" is in.
They're not going to tell the truth to us, but we can tell the truth about them. It's this: They'll say anything to get recruits on campus, and they'll say anything to get media members off their backs when angling for a different job. And the panting attempts by school administrators, fans, other coaches and many media members to portray them as men of superior moral fiber needs to stop.
They're coaches, that's all. That makes them part of a pack of lying liars who only lie when their lips are moving -- and Saban's lips have moved most recently.
The Miami Dolphins coach denied being interested in or a candidate for the job at Alabama so many times we all lost count. But we weren't naïve enough to believe him -- and Wednesday proved why. He's fundamentally unbelievable.
So it's time to rename the American Football Coaches Association the Liar's Club. I understand that I'm tarring a lot of good men -- and even a few honest ones -- with a broad brush, but that's Saban's gift to his profession.
Of course, he's simply following a proud tradition of dissembling coaches.
Butch Davis wasn't leaving the Miami Hurricanes for the Cleveland Browns -- until he did.
Tommy Tuberville told Mississippi fans the only way he'd leave the school was "in a pine box" -- before leaving for Auburn days later.
Louisville's Bobby Petrino denied a meeting with Auburn that had indeed taken place. The next year he signed a contract extension and said, "This is the place I want to be." He interviewed with LSU within a week of that statement.
Dennis Franchione convinced his players to stay at Alabama after enduring NCAA sanctions -- then fled himself for Texas A&M after two years on the job.
Saban is the latest and perhaps greatest example, if only because he took such umbrage at being asked about the Alabama job that he wasn't interested in (until he was). It required an impressive reservoir of gall to refute angrily questions designed to learn the truth, as if they were unfair attacks on the coach's piety.
Last week Saban said, "I'm not going to be the Alabama coach."
This week, when the topic didn't go away -- because, clearly, it shouldn't have -- he got snippy.
"I'm not talking about any of that stuff," he said. "And I'd appreciate the courtesy of it not being asked."
If you could put a subtitle on that it would read: "My gosh, people, I'm trying to avoid the subject. How dare you not play along with me? Just because I've been lying my eyeballs out, I won't let you paint me into a corner. So it's time to make you all look like jerks for badgering me. Bad manners, all of you!"
The thing is, we've seen it so often that we've become almost immune to this bizarre mating dance of obfuscation and denial. Colleges won't say which coaches they're after, and coaches won't admit to being interested. Universities like using the Latin word "veritas" in mottos and such, but they aren't wedded to the word when it comes to pursuing athletic coaches.
Obviously, telling the truth potentially can create some sticky situations. But this would be my suggested sample comment for a coach being sought for a job other than the one he now has:
"Although I love the position I currently hold, I am a candidate for job X. I will not discuss it further until there is something tangible, be it an interview or an offer, to discuss. Goodbye."
It beats rampant, jaded dishonesty. Especially from college coaches who love to talk about all the valuable life lessons they're imparting to America's impressionable young rush ends, blindside tackles and cover corners.
The real job description at most places isn't terribly heavy on life lessons. It goes roughly like this: Must win, must win some more, must beat archrival, must recruit like a maniac, must put fannies in seats. The secondary clause: Must not get caught committing NCAA violations, must try to avoid a complete and obvious subversion of the university's academic principles.
Winning games is why Alabama wanted Nick Saban, and winning games is why Nick Saban wanted to go back to college coaching. That's as far as the "great fit" goes. You'll probably hear a lot about how Saban loves college towns and college life and coaching young guys, but this is why he wanted to go back to campus: His record at LSU was 48-16, and his record at Miami was 15-17.
Don't look a single step beyond that. Because if you do, you'll see Alabama's contribution to the higher education mission: a reported $32 million contract for a football coach who spent the last month-plus lying like a rug about having any interest in coming to their school.
Yet they won't be able to introduce Nick Saban in Tuscaloosa simply as the best winner money can buy. The hyperbole will go far beyond that, until he is inevitably hailed as a "man of great character."
I'll simply hail him as the richest member of the Liar's Club.
Pat Forde is a senior writer for ESPN.com. He can be reached at ESPN4D@aol.com.
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| 14 | TB
ID: 72253110
Wed, Jan 03, 2007, 17:59
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This is so overblown by the media, who create the controversy.
So here you are at work and you get a call from another corporation who is interested in hiring you. Nothing is firm, but it looks like more money and more job security. They haven't fully offered you the job and you haven't had the chance to fully discuss it with your family or think through all effects it will have on your life.
Then a reporter comes into your office and starts asking you about this new job. There isn't a good answer to give.
- If you deny it, you are a liar.
- If you say you've been contacted about the job:
1) There is the possibility it is withdrawn or that you put yourself in a worse bargaining position for that job.
2) You might alienate your current employer who could terminate your employment without any certainty that you get the new job offer.
With that same train of thought, that you admit you have been contacted about the job, the next question is if you are going to accept it.
- If you say you are thinking about it, see #1 and #2 above.
- If you say you are not leaving your current position you are either a liar or you have lost an opportunity to do what's best for your family.
I agree with KKB in post #11. More coaches should just look at the reporters and say, "I am not here to comment on specualtion or rumors. I am the head coach of XXX and am here to talk about XXX. Any decisions about my future employment will be discussed with my family and current employer before being addressed to the media."
Lots of reporters, bloggers, and forum posters taking their shots at him, but he shouldn't care two licks what anyone else thinks. This is about him and his family. If he put up another crappy season in Miami next year there was a good chance he was going to get canned. Better to move on now to a position he is better suited for.
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| 15 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714
Wed, Jan 03, 2007, 18:16
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Agree entirely with what TB and KKB have said. I'll also offer that IMHO, Pat Forde is WAY out of line with the contents illustrated in post 13.
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| 16 | blue hen
Leader
ID: 710321114
Wed, Jan 03, 2007, 18:17
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Man, I wish I could coach XXX.
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| 17 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714
Wed, Jan 03, 2007, 18:38
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you can, but they only pay $Y,YYY annually. Thats why no one wants the job.
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| 18 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Wed, Jan 03, 2007, 18:39
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I totally agree with TB in 14. But that's not what Saban did. Pat Forde may have went overboard, but Saban deserves at least some of the flack he is getting for his actions.
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| 19 | Mark L
ID: 31159914
Wed, Jan 03, 2007, 19:22
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TB - don't think that your hypothetical is a fair comparison. Most of us in fact do work at will; we can leave any time we get a better offer, and our employers can fire us anytime they feel like it for the proverbial "good reason, bad reason or no reason at all."
Saban, and all other coaches who are not at the end of their contracts, are not in that position. Unless their contracts contain provisions prohibiting them from interviewing, they do not run the risk of being fired simply because they interviewed for another job -- which could happen, I suspect, to most of us here. We face real pressure that just does not exist for someone who has a contract protecting him.
Having said that, I agree with your bottom line: why create the opportunity for others to lambaste you? The non-answer answer is good enough for coaches in almost all other contexts, and for politicians damn near all the time.
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| 20 | KrazyKoalaBears
ID: 32045213
Wed, Jan 03, 2007, 22:32
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TB, actually a valid response would be, "I currently have no plans to leave my employment with XXX."
You've told your current employer that you don't have any CURRENT plans to leave, but the option is certainly open (as I think most realistic employers would expect their employees to at least listen to other offers). And you've told your prospective employer that because nothing is set in stone yet, you haven't made any plans yet. But, you're still willing to listen.
Again, this boils down to Saban just outright lying. You don't say, "I'm not going to be the Alabama coach" unless you mean it. If you know yourself well enough to know that you're at least going to listen to an offer if they provide one, then you say, "I currently have no plans to be the next Alabama head coach." Then, once you receive the offer, you can say, "After reviewing the package Alabama is offering myself and my family, the plans for our future have changed." You never lied and you still left all opportunities open, including remaining where you are.
I know it's just a small bit of change in language, but it's a huge difference. I learned a few years ago to stop saying, "I'll never do _______" in favor of "I hope I never do _______" because one never knows what situations one will face in the future that might make them do _______. It's actually a big difference.
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| 21 | Matt G
ID: 561039520
Wed, Jan 03, 2007, 22:47
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Few things here... I don't agree with leaving a contract for a better one with another organization, I think that is one of the slimiest things in the world, why even sign the thing.
However, I do agree when an offer comes across the table for guarunteed $32 Million, it changes the way people think.
I do think there is something to be said for loyalty, and let the record state I HAVE TURNED DOWN MORE MONEY... so it does happen.
This could of been handled different, and I think there is something as far as denying it, and saying that's not going to happen, then doing it...
I agree, they should just say, "I am the coach of the Miami Dolphins today and if you have questions about that, then I'll answer them, otherwise please don't ask."
People will read into that how they want, just like everything else... He denied 2 weeks ago that he'd be the Bama coach, but there were still articles out there about him potentially being it... So really there is no avoiding the media.
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| 22 | Electroman
ID: 44651412
Sun, Jan 07, 2007, 21:37
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Looks like Petrino is a liar too:)
"I can't tell you how happy I am with the commitment and the confidence that Tom Jurich has in me and the university has in me," Petrino said after signing the contract. "I also wanted to make sure that everyone understood, I know I've said it, that this is where my family wants to be. This is where I want to be. I want everyone to really believe it." a>
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| 23 | Weykool
Leader
ID: 41750315
Sun, Jan 07, 2007, 22:14
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Nick Saban lies to a bunch of reporters and I'm supposed to get worked up about it?
I dont think so....I dont care one bit.
How many times have the owners of a team held a meeting with the manager and then give him a "vote of confidence" only to fire him before the month is over?
I blame the media for this one.
Since when are they supposed to be the story?
Wait until he takes the Alabama job and then report it.
Stop trying to get the "exclusive" story/interview and just report what happens.
The media plays favorites and somewhere along the line Saban didnt play ball with them and now they are trying to get even.
Shame on anyone in the public who buys any of this nonsense.
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| 24 | KrazyKoalaBears
ID: 15023167
Mon, Jan 08, 2007, 13:33
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Weykool, in the same post, you said that "Nick Saban lies to a bunch of reporters" and "somewhere along the line Saban didn't play ball with them and now [the media] are trying to get even."
I don't see how those two mix. Either Saban lied and the media has called him on it or Saban didn't "play ball" (i.e. - said nothing) and they're getting even.
No matter how much you want to blame the media, Saban still said, "I'm not going to be the Alabama coach" to them and it turned out to be a blatant lie.
Again, Saban had many different things to say and he didn't and I actually congratulate the media on calling him on his lie.
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| 25 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Jan 08, 2007, 13:46
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You don't continuously say I will not consider the Alabama job and I'm happy here and I will be the coach at Miami so stop asking me about it and then turn around and take the job. At least he could have held a press conference and explained himself and begged for mercy like, at the time, I wasn't goingto consider it. I was telling you the truth. Then I got blown away by all they were offering me, yada yada yada and I apologize.
If there were any chance that he MIGHT take that job if offered, he could have always said, thank you for the questions, but I am not going to comment on anything that pertains to other coaching positions, etc. Instead, he lied. I really get a sense that it was intentional lies when I read his transript of his press conference and he talks about how much he wanted to go to UA and the college setting, etc. (paraphrasing. I've slept since I've read it!).
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